Falling Trees in the Wind

Jed

Jed

TreeHouser
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
4,291
Location
Snoqualmie, WA
O.k. boys, sorry to reinvent the wheel if this stuff has already been hashed-out here thirty-five times before, but, I absolutely couldn't resist starting this thread, having only yesterday, typed the phrase, "the older I get, the more I feel like I am done taking chances." So... quick story in the next paragraph, and then I need some advice.

First the quick story. 1) We've had some pretty gusty spring winds up here lately. 2) I actually "lay in bed awake" last night--which I NEVER do--(which one of us who works as hard as we do in this trade, can actually "lay in bed awake") trying to decide whether to fall or climb a wierd 2nd growth residential Doug Fir. Here's what I mean by "weird": 130 feet tall, 22 inches d.b.h., and maybe 25" on the stump, first dead limb at about 80 feet, first live limb at around 90. 3) I woke up this morning, and checked the weather report: Wind: 8 m.p.h. "O.k. I'm gonna fall it." I thought. 4) Got out there. Forman: "You gonna stretch it out?" (I should have meantioned that it was about 25 feet from the house.) "Yeah," I said, "but I'm gonna put a 90 degree retainer-line in it." Foreman: "That's dumb. You don't need it. Just hang a pull-line in it." Me: "Yeah, I'm gonna put two lines: a pull-line just in case my wedges don't get it, (which I didn't even need) and a retainer, in case a sudden gust comes up toward the neighbor's house." Forman: "No! Just hang the one line." 5) I silently hike my way up to the first dead limb, and proceed to hand two lines. Foreman: "What are you doin'? I just told you to hang one!" Me: "Chris, that's fine, but you're gonna have to fall it." Foreman: "Yup. I know I will. Come on down." 6) Foreman makes back-cut as sudden gust of wind blows tree slightly toward the house smashing the neighbor's Japanese Maple. Foreman: "Ohhh.... I shoulda' aimed it beter..." etc, etc.

Question: Do you guys fall trees in the wind? How big of trees do you fall in the wind? How stupid or permissible do you think it is? Etc.

Years ago, I read in Jerry's book: "Do not fall trees in the wind." Sound advice, but sometimes it seems like we'd never get anything done, and I've a strong feeling that he's disobeyed his own advice just a time or two. What do you you guys do?
 
We (or at least I) learn from making mistakes. That's called experience. I used to break a lot of stuff, not so much any more.

Excellent call on letting your foreman take that one, you have more wisdom than you let on around here.
 
Wind is a very powerful commodity, it needs to be well respected, falling trees or when up in them. I don't know if you happened to watch my recently posted crane vid, Jed, but I don't much care for wind when it gets like that, hanging on to a tree when it is bending so persuasively.
 
LOL @ the "Foreman"

Wind don't mean shit if you rig the sucker. EasyPeasyJapanesy!

:drink:

Pull that bad boy over, and be done with it.
 
Skwerl said:
We (or at least I) learn from making mistakes. That's called experience. I used to break a lot of stuff, not so much any more.

Excellent call on letting your foreman take that one, you have more wisdom than you let on around here.
Click to expand...
+1

I guess my rule of thumb is this... If there is any uncertainty when felling a tree and hitting my LZ and or missing targets due to wind/weather, planetary alignment, mood, condition of self, condition of groundsman......................(fill in blank here)..................... I will either try and over come the situation with rigging or put it off until conditions are safe and right.
When climbing, if the wind exceeds my comfort zone, I won't. If I can not be in my comfort zone and do my job efficiently and safely, I have no business being aloft.
 
Sometimes wind is in your favor and you can easily put a tree in a place you otherwise might not, but only with a steady wind. Most of the time, I don't fall trees in the wind. But then, most of the time I don't use a rope on them either. I have more choice in the matter than many cutters do.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Thanks Brian. Yeah, I finally figured out that my pride had to come down a few notches in order to let some other guys make the mistakes. :P

Yeah Jay, you mean the vid at the Buddhist temple right? That was just a big ol gnarly pine whether in the wind or no. Cranes are our friends.

Butch: I'm with ya on the "rig it and slam it" bit. Gives me more confidence in the wind.

Stephen: Good rule of thumb, and I really appreciate your advise.

I guess one of the things I'm also after in this thread is to pick the brains of Stig, Ger, Burnham, Dave and any others who have had experience as commercial fallers, or foresters, or fire-fighters. (where there is no infra-structure to damage) about whether you guys have ever had a tall, whippy tree go sideways on you from strong gusts. E.g. Is it possible for a moderately strong gust to bust out the corner of an otherwise good hinge? That was my big fear yesterday, but I now feel like it might have been ill founded. Has that ever happened to anyone?
 
I have seen a lot of trees that blew over or broke midway from wind, but that is mostly long Pines. Falling in the kind of wind that will do that, it occurs that anything can happen.

Referring to this vid, Jed, the gusts picked up pretty good at 25 minutes into the thing. Swirling winds, the force on the trees is multi-directional. I seriously doubt that a good outcome is predictable in a situation like that when falling. I think that you can often get a better idea of wind strength when higher up, and that is where the crown is taking the force and transmitting the effects through the entire tree.

http://youtu.be/NAO1ZzQpelc
 
And by rig, I don't mean nothing fancy! Just set a line on that sucker, and be done with it.
 
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If by set a line, Butch means a pull-to-the-lay line, then a wind 90 degrees to that of sufficient strength can overule the hinge and that line will do you no good...in which case, I disagree :).

Jed...the answer to your question is yes, most definitely...wind can tear a hinge off a corner and all well-laid plans go to hell.
 
We agree, as I said...don't fall in the wind :).

The trick is reading the character of the wind...if you are cutting in a place with a decent view off to windward, you can perhaps see the face of the gust coming your way from a sufficient distance off to be able to read the "lay downs" and make that backcut at the right time.

A climber aloft has no trouble at all seeing this, but from the ground it can be hard.
 
I was particularly noticing the other day that the more trees that you remove in an area with wind, the more the remaining trees get subject to the blowing.
 
I climbed and took down a water oak last week with the wind blowing so hard, I cut several limbs directly opposite their lean and the wind took them right over for me. It was ridiculous how hard it started blowing about the time I got up in the tree.

I've got a big red oak to get down in a week or so that I'd welcome a 50 MPH wind on. :lol: It's about 30" at the butt and leaning about 10* off plumb, right toward a house, with about 6 pretty good limbs on the house side. I'm hoping to hang 4 lines in it, (2) 5/8" and (2) 3/4" and pull the sucker over. I figure with two come-a-lings and the Warn 11,000#er, I can put some persuasion on it. I'll have another rope there if I feel the need to put something else on it. But a good wind would be a plus. :D
 
When I say, "Don't fall trees in the Wind!" It's just a general rule for those that don't know the difference between, when the wind is in their favor or against it.

Out in the brush a timber faller deals with wind regularly and has to figure out how to either make it work or make the decision to not fall the tree. With the exception of the worst windy days there is often many trees you can make the wind work in your favor, and then the next day fall the ones you couldn't.

Liabilities run higher in the urban sector and the choice to fall a tree in the wind becomes more a critical. I feel you know what you're doing. Obviously your foreman doesn't.

This can bear stress on every crew member when a foreman is not as savvy with a situation as them. I been there. The district supervisor of Santa Rosa took me aside once and told me, "Jer, you have to do what Jim tells you to do. He's the foreman. You do not run the crew!" I acquiesced. But Jim was a piss poor treeman if there every was one. I kept my trap shut.
 
Actually, I was referring to these, of which I have two, and I can attest to the fact that they'll pull lots more than the 2-tons they're rated for. Heavy duty, and very durable. 40' of 3/16" cable, along with a block to double your power. Biggest problem I've had is with the handle. I put a piece of steel pipe in it to avoid bending the thin-walled handle they supply with it.

de7085b1.jpg


I also use the Maasdam rope puller a lot. With a block in the equation, it'll pull quite a bit, but s-l-o-w.....
 
I think that thin walled handle is supposed to bend if/when you exceed the rated load, Scott.

No wonder you get more than 2 tons out of it :D.
 
It is, it is, but I didn't buy them to fit the company's needs. I bought them to pull trees, and sometimes the tree needs more persuasion than the company approves.:lol:
 
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