murphy4trees
TreeHouser
can we post up video from facebook? This one is worth the 3 minutes
domino cut. this is chess not checker
- Thread starter murphy4trees
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MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
OK, but I woulda roped out that upper left lead lead off to do no haremto that fence.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
I am not convinced he knew what he was doing. I think about half those cuts are the opposite of what I thought needed to be done????
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #5
If you look at the finished still photo on FB you'll see he did remarkably little damage to the fence. Looks like a few slats got pushed out, may not have even broken them.
There was already a big hole in the fence, so it was going to need repair. UNstable tree, who knows if there was a ground man available to run the opes etc. I think the trade-off of a few broken slats was well worth the time and energy saved and the danger avoided for minimal damage to a fence that needed repair either way.
Saying what you would have done is questionable because that would depend on what the deal was with the homeowner.
as far as the benefit of taking it as a domino rather than a piece at a time, he got everything low near the fence to fold away from the fence. He may have also kept the fir from getting any more damage, and he tripped all the cuts with one cut, minimizing his exposure. He may have had other ideas too
that's casue he's twice as good as you Gary
There was already a big hole in the fence, so it was going to need repair. UNstable tree, who knows if there was a ground man available to run the opes etc. I think the trade-off of a few broken slats was well worth the time and energy saved and the danger avoided for minimal damage to a fence that needed repair either way.
Saying what you would have done is questionable because that would depend on what the deal was with the homeowner.
as far as the benefit of taking it as a domino rather than a piece at a time, he got everything low near the fence to fold away from the fence. He may have also kept the fir from getting any more damage, and he tripped all the cuts with one cut, minimizing his exposure. He may have had other ideas too
that's casue he's twice as good as you Gary
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
That's when you give it a shot, Gary!!!
Mick!
TreeHouser
Can’t see it.
I agree with Gary.
I don't see a master plan to it either.
He just cut and when that didn't work, cut somewhere else.
His professionalism shows in that he didn't hardly get the saw stuck.
There were plenty of opportunities for that.
I don't see a master plan to it either.
He just cut and when that didn't work, cut somewhere else.
His professionalism shows in that he didn't hardly get the saw stuck.
There were plenty of opportunities for that.
Mellow
BCMA
It looked good to me. I've done similar trees where it wasn't always clear what was holding up what. Most of his cuts were to relieve pressure until he could figure out what was holding and what wasn't.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Look stabbed into the ground, and stable. Start at the right, free that section, and clear it out, work toward the left. NBD. I don't see any really good plan.
When I watch an August Hunicke video, there are times where I look at it and don't understand why, until he does his orchestrated 'reveal' that makes a good dramatic video...the video coming to mind was where he made a deck tree into a table or pedestal for an outdoor bar or something. Kept waiting for that here.
Looked like he had to jump to the side a bit more than if he'd sectioned it apart instead of (not what I'd call) domino'ing it.
With the other wood out of the way, he might have been able to swing the lead over the fence not into it.
When I watch an August Hunicke video, there are times where I look at it and don't understand why, until he does his orchestrated 'reveal' that makes a good dramatic video...the video coming to mind was where he made a deck tree into a table or pedestal for an outdoor bar or something. Kept waiting for that here.
Looked like he had to jump to the side a bit more than if he'd sectioned it apart instead of (not what I'd call) domino'ing it.
With the other wood out of the way, he might have been able to swing the lead over the fence not into it.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #11
Based on the way he fine-tuned the first notch, then how quickly he cut the second notch, and fine-tuned the back cut to the second cut, then the moment he took to think about the placement of the third cut, how he reamed the saw on the down cut, to prevent pinching, and finally how quickly he moved from the fourth cut back to finish the first cut and trip the whole thing, it's obvious to me that he had the plan figured out from the start. It's clear from the FB comments that those who can't comprehend that level of skill and planning complexity to solving such puzzles have a tendency to spout criticisms. I'd put you in that category Stig, which is surprising, given the way he handles the saw, and the saw itself.
Jonny
Treehouser
He’s done it before. He didn’t pinch, and you can see him kinda swiveling his head watching everything and noting movement and making sure he has room and a route to gtfo if something unexpected happens.
Nicely cutting saw too.
Nicely cutting saw too.
that's casue he's twice as good as you Gary
As MB might say, you feel better now Murph?
BlackSmith
Uncivil
“that level of skill and planning complexity to solving such puzzles”
My “level of skill and planning” must be greater than I credit myself for or I’ve been doing it for so long it just bores me.
My “level of skill and planning” must be greater than I credit myself for or I’ve been doing it for so long it just bores me.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
No worries....he put a smiley winky something with it so maybe it wasn't being an asshat. The cutter surely did a good job of not getting the saw stuck, looked easy to get it stuck there...still not convinced he was playing chess...maybe Russian Roulette.
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
i think i might have tried to Dutch kerf to fence side on face_1(also later faces_2,3), and opened this face some this/camera side as receiver of that push w/o resistance
>>thin backcut on fence side, open on this , camera side with thicker hinge>>tapered hinge into Dutch face push, that fat taper, fence side closes and open side beckons tree this way/towards camera
>>probably still hit fence but hopefully less
>>i always try to save fence (or shed etc.) even if being removed just trying to see how good am
>>or if removing fence anyway consider knocking out before >> jest so i didn't hit it
Maybe even cost cx less if fence is removed beforehand>> but if it is there, see how good i am
.
Next 2 faces have pressure up, not down>>orchestrate tension/compression/reliefs for this reverse pro-cedure than normal downward pressure of face_1 (like face is wheel chuck removed to allow roll forward)
>>would be cutting into bind if faced down as normal face_1>> face to relieve stresses, and back cut to allow fold to that now open path, just like fell or drop, only follow different direction of forces as guide/not eye
So he faced to fold up with that existing pressure, and backcuts from below to release into those faces upward
>>i think of it as reverse felling, exercise my logic to see the forces as simply reverse fell / UP; like crane lift rotation on hinge upward
i woulda tried to then Dutch the fence side TOPS, backcut low to leave thin fence side too and open faces more as receivers of that push as thicker hinge this is side is pulling too into hinge faces to side
>>trying to get a bit of turn as fold out of each, inching top away from fence>> 1st 3 faces Tapered and Dutch to serve towards camera
4th cut /no face thru VERY confident no binding pressure as cuts straight thru with good saw 1 stroke thru thick, dry>> he really studied, weighed and measured this or would have changed topic to saw release.
>>and stump end remains standing so very stable on blind side of fence
THUS>> even with binding push back pressure on ends towards stump, weight is balanced or pulling away strong on single kickstand would think, or would bind back into 4th/no face cut thru
.
Released all by working first cut , that drops instead of folds; but triggering fold from cutting upward on 3rd might have given more fold(?)/ but riskier position
>>cutting down into this cut, as to impact release of dominoes, rather than fold up on other positions after all that work??
>>Actually i think should have also worked that 1 kickstand into ground, with upward fold/Dutch/thick hinge to roll towards camera in the spice mix.
>>>>would have given more pivotal force roll this way, but not the reach on that arm that 3rd face gives, but more initial power
>>end with rope over top, around to hitch bottom leg side and pull with truck to get roll and overloading fail of hinges slowly to get more fold towards camera>> w/o man in batter's box
If i still hit fence, i tried/witnesses, i learned something, exercised skills in tough one('harvested opportunity') that doesn't come along often and tried to do it time equitably, cuz this is a business, and clock is running.
.
That is without assessing if could safely stand up there and ease limbs over fence down, or weaken, but only with feather light forces of any motion to orchestrate. Anything safe to shave points, fence may be only pawn, but don't like losing it in this chess game.
As stated man moved cleanly and swiftly thru tuff puzzle fine w/o much bad; i just would have tried to harvest as quick training of self more; to hopefully more sharper(but that's just me/and we really don't see rest of tree to 2nd guess bindings).
(i find that the "eagle's claw", is only as sharp as whatever has to draw it against, and the angle of that draw; and would try to pay price/cash in on this rare lesson)
i do kinda like a long single kickstand vertical on some of these(NOT seen here). Face towards fence higher on kickstand, back cut camera side and rope pull with truck just above cut
>>reaching for that leg to fold slow towards truck pull as release/now overloaded mechanical fuse, to get farther off of fence with pivot/reach
>>NOT seen here, but i look for that shituation, or whittle several existing legs to that one support stilt to then fold etc.
>>slower folds, w/o man in batters box, as saw not needed to trigger dominoes walked to near failure so can fold into open faces, Dutches pushing, tapereds pulling
>>thin backcut on fence side, open on this , camera side with thicker hinge>>tapered hinge into Dutch face push, that fat taper, fence side closes and open side beckons tree this way/towards camera
>>probably still hit fence but hopefully less
>>i always try to save fence (or shed etc.) even if being removed just trying to see how good am
>>or if removing fence anyway consider knocking out before >> jest so i didn't hit it
Maybe even cost cx less if fence is removed beforehand>> but if it is there, see how good i am
.
Next 2 faces have pressure up, not down>>orchestrate tension/compression/reliefs for this reverse pro-cedure than normal downward pressure of face_1 (like face is wheel chuck removed to allow roll forward)
>>would be cutting into bind if faced down as normal face_1>> face to relieve stresses, and back cut to allow fold to that now open path, just like fell or drop, only follow different direction of forces as guide/not eye
So he faced to fold up with that existing pressure, and backcuts from below to release into those faces upward
>>i think of it as reverse felling, exercise my logic to see the forces as simply reverse fell / UP; like crane lift rotation on hinge upward
i woulda tried to then Dutch the fence side TOPS, backcut low to leave thin fence side too and open faces more as receivers of that push as thicker hinge this is side is pulling too into hinge faces to side
>>trying to get a bit of turn as fold out of each, inching top away from fence>> 1st 3 faces Tapered and Dutch to serve towards camera
4th cut /no face thru VERY confident no binding pressure as cuts straight thru with good saw 1 stroke thru thick, dry>> he really studied, weighed and measured this or would have changed topic to saw release.
>>and stump end remains standing so very stable on blind side of fence
THUS>> even with binding push back pressure on ends towards stump, weight is balanced or pulling away strong on single kickstand would think, or would bind back into 4th/no face cut thru
.
Released all by working first cut , that drops instead of folds; but triggering fold from cutting upward on 3rd might have given more fold(?)/ but riskier position
>>cutting down into this cut, as to impact release of dominoes, rather than fold up on other positions after all that work??
>>Actually i think should have also worked that 1 kickstand into ground, with upward fold/Dutch/thick hinge to roll towards camera in the spice mix.
>>>>would have given more pivotal force roll this way, but not the reach on that arm that 3rd face gives, but more initial power
>>end with rope over top, around to hitch bottom leg side and pull with truck to get roll and overloading fail of hinges slowly to get more fold towards camera>> w/o man in batter's box
If i still hit fence, i tried/witnesses, i learned something, exercised skills in tough one('harvested opportunity') that doesn't come along often and tried to do it time equitably, cuz this is a business, and clock is running.
.
That is without assessing if could safely stand up there and ease limbs over fence down, or weaken, but only with feather light forces of any motion to orchestrate. Anything safe to shave points, fence may be only pawn, but don't like losing it in this chess game.
As stated man moved cleanly and swiftly thru tuff puzzle fine w/o much bad; i just would have tried to harvest as quick training of self more; to hopefully more sharper(but that's just me/and we really don't see rest of tree to 2nd guess bindings).
(i find that the "eagle's claw", is only as sharp as whatever has to draw it against, and the angle of that draw; and would try to pay price/cash in on this rare lesson)
i do kinda like a long single kickstand vertical on some of these(NOT seen here). Face towards fence higher on kickstand, back cut camera side and rope pull with truck just above cut
>>reaching for that leg to fold slow towards truck pull as release/now overloaded mechanical fuse, to get farther off of fence with pivot/reach
>>NOT seen here, but i look for that shituation, or whittle several existing legs to that one support stilt to then fold etc.
>>slower folds, w/o man in batters box, as saw not needed to trigger dominoes walked to near failure so can fold into open faces, Dutches pushing, tapereds pulling
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gf beranek
Old Schooler
Slice it. Those spars were hung.
His chain was sharp.
His chain was sharp.
Burnham
Woods walker
Agreed, Jerry. Salami cuts, at the best guess angle to allow for free movement of the severed pieces. And I'll say as well, his saw was in proper condition, sharp as it should be, which indicates better than average skill right there. He doesn't seem like a hack, to my eye.
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flushcut
TreeHouser
More logger than tree guy IMO. Dinging the fence is un pro , it happens, but that could have been avoided. Plus i didn't see it in person sooooo..
Burnham
Woods walker
There is always that...
flushcut
TreeHouser
It's always easy armchairing a video and saying " well I would have done it this way". But i am pretty sure i would have done that one differently.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Ain't that the truth!
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Yup. Most certainly. I too would have done it Duffy. Not inpressed.
Here's some thoughts. Something was trimmed before the video because there's a piece already lying on the ground. Probably on the backside for fence clearance. He knew the trunk was anchored on a root plate before he did those cuts. The trunk stayed still suspended not by the fence at the end of the video indicating the root plate.
Probable reasoning: root plate could fail unanticipated, whole thing could roll especially with left lead airborne without contact, so stabilize the airborne left lead asap with a slow guided bending hinge to miss the fence and contact the conifer also in preparation for walking it down the conifer. Then don't break the kickstand to lower everything because it will pop dynamically shocking the upper portions into motion. Then he set up the lower right to walk it down the conifer. After that he didn't want huge trunk pieces playing bowling with the fence so he portioned up the trunk junction area with break points. But he almost lost it prematurely when one cut moved. Then trigger the crumpling of the break points.
To rig the left lead would require alot of fiddling in around and under the mess. Perhaps best avoided. Also would take lots of time and effort. Plus as you partitioned the airborne leader the whole thing would be at risk of moving or breaking.
Where the video ended he left himself two leaders propped up on the conifer that could be walked down or slid off sideways with a rope (or some combo) assuming some landing zone.
The biggest factor is hinge wood species behaviour. Too brittle = no control, too chewy can also mess up control by refusing to pop unless actively cut. I had a catalpa leader over a wire and the g----dam thing hung pieces three times by what looked like shoe laces. Even after tag line tugging and swinging around. The video looked like a 50/50 fibrous pop mixture and behaved well.
This guy had it not bad. When it's leaning into a house wall/eavestrough/windows planning and puckering increases. I tend to either work the heavier materials out first or stand the fallen tree up away from the structure if possible. Once stood up or supported you can then work from the branch tips inward till structure clearance is achieved, then set it back down and buck it up. Letting the trunk drop into the side of the house is the biggest no no. There was a video of a guy riding such a cut into a house wall not sure if it made contact but the guy flew pretty good.
Thanks again Butch. Not a wallflower
Murphy brings out the commentary in people. I've been around reading for years and decided to join the fray.
Probable reasoning: root plate could fail unanticipated, whole thing could roll especially with left lead airborne without contact, so stabilize the airborne left lead asap with a slow guided bending hinge to miss the fence and contact the conifer also in preparation for walking it down the conifer. Then don't break the kickstand to lower everything because it will pop dynamically shocking the upper portions into motion. Then he set up the lower right to walk it down the conifer. After that he didn't want huge trunk pieces playing bowling with the fence so he portioned up the trunk junction area with break points. But he almost lost it prematurely when one cut moved. Then trigger the crumpling of the break points.
To rig the left lead would require alot of fiddling in around and under the mess. Perhaps best avoided. Also would take lots of time and effort. Plus as you partitioned the airborne leader the whole thing would be at risk of moving or breaking.
Where the video ended he left himself two leaders propped up on the conifer that could be walked down or slid off sideways with a rope (or some combo) assuming some landing zone.
The biggest factor is hinge wood species behaviour. Too brittle = no control, too chewy can also mess up control by refusing to pop unless actively cut. I had a catalpa leader over a wire and the g----dam thing hung pieces three times by what looked like shoe laces. Even after tag line tugging and swinging around. The video looked like a 50/50 fibrous pop mixture and behaved well.
This guy had it not bad. When it's leaning into a house wall/eavestrough/windows planning and puckering increases. I tend to either work the heavier materials out first or stand the fallen tree up away from the structure if possible. Once stood up or supported you can then work from the branch tips inward till structure clearance is achieved, then set it back down and buck it up. Letting the trunk drop into the side of the house is the biggest no no. There was a video of a guy riding such a cut into a house wall not sure if it made contact but the guy flew pretty good.
Thanks again Butch. Not a wallflower
Murphy brings out the commentary in people. I've been around reading for years and decided to join the fray.
