Anyone still using the APTA?

[Benjo75]

I throw by hand 99 percent of the time. I've had a big shot for about 10 years and only use it about 5 or 6 times a year. If I was more accurate with it I might use it more. It's nice but it can still take a few times for a very tight spot. I've been rec climbing some taller trees lately and been thinking about the APTA to help speed up setting the line. Is the laser worth having? Seems like it would be. What laser are you using? What throw bag works best? I've searched here but didn't find any recent threads. Just wondering what everyone settled on. I still intend to throw by hand mostly but there are times I could see it saving a lot of time. Most days I can hit pretty good but then there's that one day where I want to run off screaming. And it's always when there is an audience. And they're always full of advice.

 

[DMc]

I never go to a job without it. I have some fancy poll tools for setting lines in small, restricted places, but for the most part, the APTA gets used for line setting. It makes hand throwing comparable to hip thrusting, nice to know how but not some something that is needed any longer.

It is so accurate, once you learn how to use it, and constant that one shot is the the norm, even for tight, complex shots.

I highly recommend mounting a green targeting laser for it. Without it, you are still just guessing. The laser needs to have adjustable turrets in order to get it in line with the bore.

I can't find the one that I have but it is similar to this one.

AIM Sports Tactical Green Laser Sight w/ External Adjustments LG002

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www.opticsplanet.com

 

[pantheraba]

Ditto what DMC said. I still throw often but when it's a high tight shot, after three or four throws I'll just break down and get out the APTA. I also use the green laser when I can find it. I haven't gotten a permanent mount dedicated laser like Dave has but I think it's a great idea. I'll take some pictures of how I mount my laser later. I will also take a picture of the bag I use. I remember researching that at the time also so I know what you're going through.

My portable air pack is a big deal for me too. I haven't used the bicycle pump in a long time... Having compressed air that I can just pop on and off as needed is wonderful. The airchuck, if that's the right word, that I use now attaches to the apta and holds itself there. Originally I had to hold that on by hand while I used the portable air pack to charge the APTA. Find you a good one that has a pressure gauge and automatically latches on so you can do hands-free manipulation of the system.

The APTA can take the madness out of a bad throw day.

 

[DMc]

... I still throw often but when it's a high tight shot, after three or four throws I'll just break down and get out the APTA...

I used to do that also, Gary, until I realized how unprofessional it was. I have nothing to gain, no need to prove skills, by the using of techniques that can be done better in other ways.

When I go to a job, people are paying a premium for my work. I will do that work to the best of my ability.

 

[SeanKroll]

I pretty accurately eyeball the APTA. I can hand throw pretty well to 60', so often do, as I don't often work next to the truck. 2-3 easy throws is easier than unpacking, carrying, carrying back, repacking. Tough and/ or high shots get the APTA.

Haven't used my BS in years.

12oz weavers were the original recommended bars.

 

[cory]

What is the best throw weight for it? Do you ever put a small pc of cloth in there first to limit bypass of the compressed air? What is the highest recommended psi? thx

 

[DMc]

As Sean stated, 12oz. Weaver-style bags are what fit. A little bit of practice will quickly confirm psi per foot of height ratio. Mine is close to one foot of height per pound of air.

 

[lxskllr]

The consensus is don't even bother with the bigshot if you go beyond hand toss?

 

[cory]

As Sean stated, 12oz. Weaver-style bags are what fit. A little bit of practice will quickly confirm psi per foot of height ratio. Mine is close to one foot of height per pound of air.

Oops I missed that. Thx for foot/psi mnemonic .

John, I personally like the BS quite a bit, works well for me up to about 70'. Doesn't like the cold though so needs to be warmed up first which can be a hassle

 

[DMc]

It depends. Bigshot does work well and if that's what you have, you will get good with it.

The APTA with a sighting laser works even better and you will probably not need more than one shot at any line setting hight.

 

[lxskllr]

I was toying with the idea of getting a Bigshot due to my poor performance with single hand throwing. Since I've gone to two hand toss, I no longer feel limited for the stuff I do. My accuracy is tolerable, and my height is more than I need so far. I actually tend to overshoot my throws. The prices of them are close enough not to matter much, and the APTA would certainly win in price if self built. Just keeping options in mind if I run up against a wall with line setting.

 

[DMc]

A laser for the APTA will add another 50 bucks or so. Not really a cheap option. Also, take what I say with a grain of salt. What I like and need as a professional does not mean that you would benefit enough from the same to make it cost effective.

 

[pantheraba]

Here are pictures of my APTA. Where I store it in my trailer, the bamboo ramrod I keep with it... I have lines drawn so that I know how deep it should go no matter which end of the ram rod I'm using... And I do not put any cloth in there, just the throw bag. You put the ring in first so the bag goes in upside down. It is supposed to travel better that way.

The small bamboo attached to the sighting end of the APTA is where I put my green laser. That little piece of cardboard is the packing that firms the laser up in the bamboo. That black hair ring is used to keep the button depressed on the laser so that it stays on while I'm sighting.

I agree with DMC. One pound of air pressure per foot of height is the rule of thumb I also use.

 

[pantheraba]

Portable air supply. It is a firefighters air pack tank, spun fiberglass, holds about 3,500 to 4, 000 psi as I remember it. I've got the tank mounted to an old scuba backpack so it's easy to haul to the tree as needed. It helps to have a son that's a firefighter.

 

[Jonny]

Is that a composite bottle?
BIG money for those ones if I remember correctly.

 

[pantheraba]

I think so. The FD got a new version of the lightweight air packs and retired the older ones. This is an earlier one but it holds more air than my larger scuba tanks that are aluminum and steel. And it is very lightweight compared to a SCUBA tank.

 

[Burnham]

The consensus is don't even bother with the bigshot if you go beyond hand toss?

Not from me...but I'm not even close to a consensus . But not ever having tried the APTA a single time, I of course cannot really be considered the be all source of info on the subject.

On the other hand...big tree climber peeps like me, Stig, Jerry Beranek, and others, have been placing lines accurately and at heights well over 200 feet with the BigShot for decades now. So that means to me that it's not a drop dead simple "one is better than the other" equation.

Just from outside observation, I think the APTA is a great tool...and from personal experience the BigShot is as well. I think that the BigShot takes more practice and skill to get high end performance...but that may well be wrong.

 

[Benjo75]

I'm decent with the big shot. If it's an open canopy I can do ok. A very dense canopy with a tight spot to hit will give me trouble. I'll throw by hand to about 60 ft. After that I start having trouble. I'm going to look in to the apta. Maybe Mrs. Santa will bring me one.

 

[kevin bingham]

The consensus is don't even bother with the bigshot if you go beyond hand toss?


I personally find the bigshot more user friendly than the APTA, lighter, takes up less space, doesnt require pumping or a pump. highly accurate, easier to adjust range (stretch of band vs PSI) takes all size throwbags. that said, APTA is lots of fun. nothing as fun or rewarding as a good hand toss though.

 

[pigwot]

I’d say get an APTA. Even if you throw by hand 80% of the time and/or use the BigShot. On those cold winter days when you leave the BigShot head in the cab so it’s warm - by the second shot you can tell it is getting cold and losing its power. The Apta doesn’t care if it is cold out. Deadly accurate, too.

After a day of Rec climbing I headed for the dormitory at the Charlie Eliot Nature Preserve center. Wiley, one of the other recreational tree climbers was sitting on his bed, in front of him was a cardboard box of large, pill-shaped pieces of foam. He was packing them into zip-lock bags to hand out to other Rec climbers. He had made a die out of a piece of pipe by sharpening one end. He then cut rounds out of firm, closed-cell foam packing material.

Push one of those down the barrel of your Apta then load your throw bag, and you get no blow-by and better distance per psi.

And when I said “Deadly accurate, too”, it was Wiley at another Rec climb weekend in St Pete, Florida who one late night (might have been alcohol involved) was extolling the virtues of air cannons and somehow hit the release trigger on his homemade one and sent a throw bag clean through the Ladies Room door, and through the drywall across the room. Next day as we climbed Wiley went to Home Depot for materials and hung a new door and did the drywall repairs.

 

[pantheraba]

First I have heard of using a plug with the apta. Cool idea. Scary story. No doubt there's a lot of power involved with the apta and with the Big Shot. And I'm sure the string if it wrapped around the wrong thing could amputate.

 

[pigwot]

Scary thought; Wichard quick release helps in keeping line clear of fingers. I had a Newman Sidewinder head (like a BigShot) fracture, and the force in that stretched elastic is amazing.

 

[treesmith]

I throw by hand 95% of the time. I have a dedicated cube set up for the APTA, though. 180' of Zing-it with a Petzl Jet 10-oz. bag attached, which I've found to be the best for the APTA. I don't use a ramrod...just poke the bag in and tamp the APTA on the ground 4 or 5 ties until the bag is seated.

 

[DMc]

Scott brings up a good point. There is very little consistency in throw weight bags. Treestuff for instance recommends the 14oz. Notch bag for the APTA. So it could take some trial and error to find a bag that fits perfectly. I like my bag to fit a little more snugly, and do use a rod to seat it. No need change bag weights when it is so easy to control with air pressure.

A tip for those that have one, check the barrel for burrs or other imperfections. Not only will they cause your bags to wear quickly, they will prevent a good seal. The aluminum barrel is easy to hone with just a padded dowel and some wet dry sandpaper.

 

[Tree09]

John, i would suggest getting some form of throw weight setter, i still run a big shot because that's what i bought years ago before everyone switched to a damn potato gun that i could have built for free on my lunch break in the fab shop. Since i spent money on the big shot, I'll keep using it Learning to hand throw would be handy, but to honestly walk up to any tree im gonna climb, select the highest crotch i trust to hold my weight and set a line there in a handful of tries is a game changer.

You become a better climber the higher your tip is, because you can do more with less effort. Hand tossing to a crotch halfway up the tree is so counter productive in comparison, and requires you to climb up to set a higher tip, which is more effort. While sometimes it's unavoidable, i try to do that as little as possible. I highly doubt you are hitting the way up there crotches hand throwing, there's old timers here that are flat out snipers but i can replicate their abilities simply by using a bigshot or apta. It's like foot locking, it was a former needed skill that has been frankly replaced by hardware, and life is better for it.