19mm impact socket works good for clutch removal

[Ax-Man]

Just thought I would pass this along.

Working on my old 028 Super that developed an air leak in the seal on the clutch side. The clutch has to come off to get at. The darn thing was being stubborn last night. Even with my son holding down the saw with his feet so I could work with both hands that darn clutch wouldn't move because my regular chrome deep well sockets just couldn't get a good bite because they just wouldn't fit up snug enough to the hub. they kept slipping off to the side becauase the clutch nut is very thin and not much for socket to grab onto. I ran into this same problem on another 28 but I finally got that one broke free, this one was not cooperating at all.. A three sided spanner wrench would be the ideal tool but I don't have one that would fit a 28 clutch.

Before I really screwed things up I decided to see if an impact socket would work any better.They do and give a much better fit on the nut and fit tighter up to the clutch hub. I had to go and buy one as I didn't have a 19 mm deep well last night but the deepwell impact socket worked on the first try. I thought I might have to grind the socket down a little but there was no need.

I didn't use an air gun, but I did have to use a big breaker bar to free the clutch. Alot of leverage for a darn little saw clutch but the usual tools just don't have enough leverage. I had to jam the flywheel with a screwdriver against the case instead of jamming the piston with a stop or a piece of rope.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Good info. I find a good whack is sometimes the ticket for a stubborn clutch, rather than even heavy pressure.

 

[Al Smith]

Most sockets have a little champer on the end .The stupid nut portion of the Stihl clutch more times than not won't allow you get gain enough purchase on that nut because it's so narrow .Little trick if you have a lathe .Cut the champher off an old 6 point socket

 

[Ax-Man]

I was prepared to do that Al to the new socket. All my other metric sockets are like new and just couldn't bring myself to cut on them.

 

[SkwerI]

Luckily I have air and an impact wrench. If my socket was slipping off the nut then I'd probably touch the socket on the grinder wheel to square up the chamfer. And I will always use a piston stop over jamming something in the flywheel fins.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Nice when there is a nut and a specialty tool isn't required.

 

[Ax-Man]

I tried the hammer thing in desperation or at least try to get it to budge , No go.

Brian , I tried a stop and a piece of rope which is my preference over a stop . I don't know what was going on espesially with the stop but I would no sooner get a bite and it seemed like the piston kept coming around past the stop or the rope. I might not have had the stop in far enough but I hate using my stop because I have heard of people putting holes into the top of pistons. My piston stop is touchy to the threads in the cylinder head. I only hand thread it in. I haven't taken the rubber seal off behind the muffler for the pressure/vac to see if the piston is damaged but I don't think it is. I would have felt or heard something if it got damaged. About the flywheel, I jam them at the counterweights, never through the fins themselves. Learned that hard lesson years ago. I very seldom jam a flywheel but nothing was working like it normally should have on this saw. Jamming the flywheel was a last resort and worked because there was no way that crank was going to move. It helped to finally get that clutch off. I bought this saw new back in the 80's and this is the farthest into it I have been since I bought it.

 

[SkwerI]

Well I'm glad you got it off.

So you've never removed the clutch before on that saw? It had the original sprocket on it? Wow!

 

[woodworkingboy]

A quickly made piston stop can be done up from a wood dowel, as long as you like. I've been using the same one for quite awhile. Size the dowel and the head will cut threads in the dowel as you turn it in. Spray some lubricant on it before. Turning it in by hand is sufficient without a pliers or anything. If you size it about right with a rasp, or better, have a lathe to size it, it will thread in easily and hold against the piston pressure. No fear of damage to the hole threads or piston....no cost.

 

[squisher]

Sounds like a real bear. I used to just whack my clutches off with the bar against the 'scrench'. How I did it in the bush anyways just against the compression. That grew old as the saw grew old though and I eventually ended up with a metal piston stop and have used it for years with no issue.

 

[Ax-Man]

That sounds like a good idea WWB,

I wish I could get that kind of milage out of a chain sproket. I have changed the sprocket but their is no need to remove the clutch. The sprocket is called an outboard sprocket. I think that is right. The sprockets on those 028's are a pain in themselves. A retaining ring has to come off the sprocket, the chainbrake cover has to come off along with the oiler gears and a few other pieces of hardware. I don't know if an 028 can be outfitted with a rim or not. The 028's I have and the others I have seen all have spur spockets.

 

[Al Smith]

I always worried about doing damage to the saw so I didn't use an impact for a long time .Blocked the piston, put a cheater pipe on the socket wrench handle ,put the thing on the floor and stood on the handle .

Then it dawned on me after I saw the stress the anti vib mounts went through .Impact since .

Actually now that I reflect back that pipe on the wrench may have caused some problems I had with a couple of Stihls with the mounts . Live and learn .

 

[cory]

So an impact would take it off more "violently" or suddenly, vs. the cheater pipe putting more force, slowly applied, on everything?

 

[squisher]

I would think it would be fine, the impact. The way I learned it smacking the scrench with the bar was the 'sudden' impact up against the compression stroke would break the clutch free. It worked quite well on the old outboard clutch style huskys.

 

[Al Smith]

Bolt theory 101

To hold it's maximum a threaded fastener is torqued to yield .In other words until all the "stretch " is taked up .

In the case of a threaded clutch like in question that point of stretch is the crankshaft stub which threads into the clutch .To release that tension it only has to be backed off a partial turn .An impact really doesn't damage the threads ,just applies that force rapidly at the point of need rather than rely on the crankshaft and connecting rod and piston to act as a counter force .

Due to the fact the clutch because it's constantly under force running the chain will get much more torque than the recomended values when assembled ,it takes a considerable amount of force to break it loose .

 

[Tzed250]

That sounds like a good idea WWB,

I wish I could get that kind of milage out of a chain sproket. I have changed the sprocket but their is no need to remove the clutch. The sprocket is called an outboard sprocket. I think that is right. The sprockets on those 028's are a pain in themselves. A retaining ring has to come off the sprocket, the chainbrake cover has to come off along with the oiler gears and a few other pieces of hardware. I don't know if an 028 can be outfitted with a rim or not. The 028's I have and the others I have seen all have spur spockets.

My 028AVS has a rim. Stihl actually made a conversion kit to retrofit the older saws. The kits can be found on eBay from time to time.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/41385771@N03/5194515571/" title="028 by zweitakt250, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/5194515571_5d96f7e350_z.jpg" width="640" height="512" alt="028" /></a>

I always worried about doing damage to the saw so I didn't use an impact for a long time .Blocked the piston, put a cheater pipe on the socket wrench handle ,put the thing on the floor and stood on the handle .

Then it dawned on me after I saw the stress the anti vib mounts went through .Impact since .

Actually now that I reflect back that pipe on the wrench may have caused some problems I had with a couple of Stihls with the mounts . Live and learn .

I have used a 3/8 impact for a long time now, though I turn it down to a lower setting.

.

 

[Al Smith]

Complete kit is part number 1118-007-1004

 

[Cobleskill]

Make sure you never mistakenly put the impact on the wrong rotation.

I know a guy that was removing lawn mower blades with a impact gun. He had his hand braced on the blade anticipating loosening rotation. He had the gun on tighten and the blade swung around sharp end into his hand. Dumb idea.

 

[Ax-Man]

Ouch, I felt that one because my first experience with a lawn mower blade resulted in a nasty slice on my hand. Sharpened the blade and slipped with the wrench getting it back on. Now I wear gloves or block the blade against the deck with a piece of wood.

That is a nice clean looking 028 T. That rim is the ticket.

I hate using those big breakers on a saw but sometimes it is the only way, mainly because I am afraid of what an impact could do. Just curious, how does the set-up go taking a clutch off with an air gun. Is the piston blocked ?? Do you leave the plug in?? I'll take notes on this one. I didn't mention I did try an air gun butt that darn clutch still didn't budge.

When I do break out the heavy stuff I apply the force in the same you would torque down a bolt only in reverse.

 

[Tzed250]

I don't use a piston stop. You must use real care as to much "impact" can shear the flywheel key.


.

 

[Al Smith]

Usually they just bust loose with an impact .I suppose though if you can't shake it you have no choice but the starter rope though the plug hole trick .I suppose worst case you might have to heat the clutch innards with a heat gun but I've never had to .

Now one thing I do is remove the starter cover before hand .You most likely wouldn't need to though .

The worst I had was a donor case for an 038 a kind gent in LA sent me .No way to block the damned thing . Stuck a piece of hard wood between the case and crank throw on that one .

 

[woodworkingboy]

Especially those flywheel keys that aren't separate are pretty easily sheared. The ones that are a permanent part attached or cast into the flywheel hole. A Husky thing on some of their saws. An aluminum key I believe, and weak.

 

[Al Smith]

I don't have any idea how or why you would shear a key spinning off a clutch but I suppose anything is possible .

I will tell you this though .Don't get the bright idea if after installing a clutch of the inboard rim type to fire it up without a bar and chain the first time .That damned thing will spin off when you let off the gas and run about 100 MPH away from you .Inside a building it will bounce off a lot of things .Voice of experiance here .

 

[woodworkingboy]

I was speaking with Gregg at Bailey's about those aluminum keys, and was telling me that a big reason for a lot of them shearing is the chain brake being activated while the saw is at high rpm. With friends he tells them not to bother to fix it, just reinstall with some toothpaste around the drive shaft and tighten the flywheel down again.

 

[Magnus]

I use impact and no piston stop often. It is usually newer Elux saws I tinker with so a metal rod and a good hit with the small hammer is faster than getting socket and wrench out.
I cut some sockets I had extra to fit in those without a head to put socket on, so no matter what clutch it is, I can get it of without much trouble.

Sometimes the flywheels are too loose and then as said in thread they break the key if engaging clutch or it gets stuck...
Best is to get surface really clean and even, then tighten it. No oil, no toothpaste, nothing! It sits a hole lot harder on a clean surface than with tooth paste.
Problem is to line it right. That is what key is for. Key is not holding.