Armoring drop-zones rather than rigging, and armoring for machines.

SeanKroll

Treehouser
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
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Location
Olympia, WA
Just a thought I have...

Sometimes in rare occasion, you might want to beat an area, rather than rig down into an area, like if you have a dead tree.

I had a tight spot to fit a dead cedar. 2x2' grid plant-spacing, with heavy, heavy landscape cloth, in the landscaped area where I was able to cover one 'soft' plant with plywood and build a log crib around it to drop in. As I was trying to prevent bouncing out, and most of the brush was already gone by the time I chunked it down, I grabbed an old piece of 8" foam to try as a disposable cushion. It worked.


I've heard of thick plywood, with straw bales on top as a way to protect some flat ground from spar impact.






Forever ago, I sub-climbed for another company and they were a chunk-it-down company, like so, so many up here, and I presume everywhere. The speedline was almost too much for them to manage, through their hangovers, to get the limbs down in the tight dropzone over pavers. We used two layers of tires and horse-stall mats onto as a crash pad, which worked out.


In hindsight, plywood on the ground first would have been a good move, if it wasn't actually done. Been forever.






I wonder about plywood layers on the ground, a layer of rounds (top ends cut into one plane with a long bar), and then more plywood on top as something to bounce things off with enough dispersal of energy over the plywood-round sandwich to protect the ground. If I could chunk onto a wood sandwich rather than rig down chunks, I imagine there might be good application sometime, like shallow water line/ dead tree I did a long time ago. (Reg's recent Easy One video had me thinking, about bridging, armoring, etc.)





Similarly, I sometimes will run across big flagstone areas. Seems like a tarp on flagstone with chips on the tarp and overlapped plywood/ mats may prevent flagstone damage by preventing point-loads/ concentrated loads from a mini-loader.




Upcoming, I have a big-ish birch to remove with a rhododendron right at the base of the tree. I think that it might be better to nail steeply angled 2x4s to the birch, like a teepee, and layer up some plywood. Once the tree is gone, the rhododendron will be the screening between the house and road, so it may be important to protect it, in a bad spot.

Two 4' 2x4s, and two nearly 8' 2x4s for a rim, and one sheet of plywood can make a strong shallow-box-like protector that can be strapped to the tree over the plant. Dropping stuff right on the wood shield might be easier than rigging some. A steep angle will deflect material to the ground.




Around here, there is commonly delicate plants right around the tree. That same 2x4 rimmed plywood could make a little platform with shorty 4x4s for little legs to prevent trampling ground cover and such at high-end properties.


Working solo, or with a busy groundie, I think how it might be easier to build a deflector on the ground, with stuff I'll already mostly have onsite, and just let stuff fall, rather than guiding and throwing branches and such.





Thoughts?
Ideas?
Pics?




To a degree, just having the tricks is something to be able to offer customers. Reg commented how, all too often, the contractor will lead them to believe that collateral damage is just part of the deal. I like to offer that we can not disturb a thing, if that's the objective.
One of my previous clients had a $60k tree-house built for his daughter. Everything was 'perfect' at their property/ events center.
 
I used ten yards of mulch dumped onto a concrete driveway to catch a big log. I used mulch since any blow off would blend into the established flower beds. Since we produce our own mulch it really only cost about $30 and an hour for a low cost employee to deliver and haul back. Used a wheelbarrow amount of it to cover sawdust and the ALAP stump.
I’ve also done the plywood/ straw sandwich. If you land the pieces flat they don’t even break the baling twine. Did that a time or two on decks and flagstone patios. It’s amazing how much impact a bale of straw can absorb. All site and job dependent though. If it’s just a grass area, I’m willing to repair a divot or so, unless they are willing to pay for zero impact.
 
I am not on you guys level by any means, but i will often use a vertical speedline to direct chunks onto other chunks to avoid negative rigging, and to control them once they land. You can drop some really big logs that way because the rigging simply guides it down and adds a slight force to keep them bouncing badly. I prefer to directional speedline rather than catch stuff anymore (brush and small logs), i think it goes faster and allows for more directional control, and can put pieces where they can be processed easily. I haven't tried any of the padding ideas to drop rounds directly on concrete tho, too risky for my pocketbook. I have done pad logs on dirt or grass to prevent damage dropping a spar tho.
 
I would never drop anything heavy on concrete, despite any padding. Rope it or crane it - life's too short to be fixing frig-ups.
 
Leaned plywood up to cover plate glass windows when dropping a dead poplar, because shit will go soaring a good distance sometimes. Nothing hit the plywood though, but it could've.
 
If the tree is large enough to damage but small enough to push chunks...

We used to get this a lot in London. Once the brash is off all rakings and any sawdust can be scooped up and placed in a ton/builders bag. Tie the tops up and just push the chogs onto the bag. Absorbs the impact really well and very few role off. quick and easy to move the bag as well, if you need to change positions. Of course you have to be pretty handy with your chucking technique but as I said we would get it a lot so you become practiced.
 
Something us tree folks can forget, you can dig up/move plants and shrubs. Moving then replanting often only takes a few min. In places with irrigation/ frequent rain reestablishment is not a huge problem. Not going to move an 8'tall Rhody probably, but for smaller stuff it's a great option
 
Among the good ideas I didn't see the plywood/tire sandwich. Absorbs energy when you don't want to tear up or dirty up chippable brush. It does provide some bounce you need to get used to.
 
If the tree is large enough to damage but small enough to push chunks...

We used to get this a lot in London. Once the brash is off all rakings and any sawdust can be scooped up and placed in a ton/builders bag. Tie the tops up and just push the chogs onto the bag. Absorbs the impact really well and very few role off. quick and easy to move the bag as well, if you need to change positions. Of course you have to be pretty handy with your chucking technique but as I said we would get it a lot so you become practiced.

Used this method for years but we use builderbags half full off woodchip, easyish to move about and it kills logs dead in there tracks, just give them a shake every so often so they don't get to compacted.
 
I'm not strong enough to move a half yard of chips by hand and I don't have a mini. And filling the bag, then emptying it to move it after the drop, no thanks. Maybe a bunch of small bags in fabric for the rubbles. It should be easily movable, but that's a lot more of handling.

I do have some tires but I rarely use them. The strong plywood is expensive here, so I put the tires alone. But, they are not fun to move (often full of dirty water), cumbersome, hollowed in the middle (be sure that a butt first will found one of the holes), bouncy for the small stuff, but too soft for a spar/ whole tree.
Tires from the big trucks are way stronger but they are huge and difficult to move by hand. I saw a heavy concrete pole dropped on them, on black top, they were barely disturbed but the pole broke apart, fun.

I tried to fell a spar (maple) on a pile of stacked firewood logs. They were ejected both sides several feet and some of the first layer were completely buried in the lawn. Can do better:D
 
I have the 1/2 ton bags. Not too heavy mostly full. We get sand or rock in them from home depot and I keep them instead of getting my deposit back. Great with the dingo. Just put the forks through the handles.
Done the spring board thing to save concrete before. Yeah, kind of a pain to haul. But you just have to do what you have to do sometimes. Cranes ait always an option.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
I've got the go-ahead to protect a Rhodie for $200 extra, right at the base of a triple-leader birch removal.

I'm going to lag-screw some 2x4's, and screw on some scrap plywood.

Was going to start it today, but one groundman has a migraine, and the other rolled his ankle this morning.

Might just crane it out, instead, especially with an extra $200 that can go toward the crane bill that will probably be $500-700.

Sometimes hoisting is better than roping-down, around armoring. Depends on his crane availability.
 
Sean, does your b.s. meter go off every time a groundman calls in "sick" or is good help so hard to find that you bite your tongue and hope it's only for one day? Working construction, diarrhea is a popular go to for a sick(hungover) day or else pick a body part and say that it's "tweaked". You know the strains and sprains are bull when it's so bad they can't work today but are miraculously good to go tomorrow.

I'm not trying to trash your guys, just sharing some anecdotal experiences and venting a bit.:|:
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
Ryan, I hear what you're saying. Typically, yes...I consider that everytime.


Today, its raining, which is a switch, as its been a dry winter. I'm by the woodstove, catching up. Maybe a blessing in disguise. I can use a 'day off'.

The migraine guy is very upstanding, I'd say. Healthy guy. Not a boozer/ problem-user. Just engaged (no bun in oven) to a successful, live-together, long-term GF.
Not the fastest groundman (new to residential), but always safe, diligent, hardworking, and ready to learn anything I'll teach him.


If the ankle-guy can't think of an ankle as a liability that will possibly put him out of work for more than a day, and choose something less concerning, like a badly-knotted muscle (can be better tomorrow)...well...
He just started. Has 2.5 years at Bartlett, and about the same at a small place in Portland.

Migraine-guy is going far in life.

Ankle-guy, used to being on a "production crew". 'Typical tree-guy' possibly. 20's, 2 y.o. kid to feed, with baby-mama. GF/ GF's kid at home.


I don't hold my breathe. I give them chances to see if they can adapt.


Meanwhile, if he drags and rakes instead of me, ok. If he can cut safely, or learn to cut safely and effectively, cool. If he can drive safely, great. Clean driving record and criminal background check.


I don't hold my breathe.


Says he has some climbing experience. If he's trustworthy on the ground, and can climb, or learn to climb safely great. I'll ease him into it.
in a

I don't hold my breathe.

I think he could work out, but can tell there are some limitations. How didn't he find a job after our largest snow-storm in some time? He is doing some of the child-care/ school-drop/ pickup for GF's 9yo. His truck threw a rod in whatever he drove, so they have one vehicle for the family-unit (nice, clean, straight, paid-off, 4 door, probably half-ton truck). Grandparents are going to get integrated into/ could take over the grandkid-school thing.

Time will tell.
 
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