Lumberjack Correspondence Course

rfwoody

Treehouser
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
800
Location
North Mississippi
LUMBERJACK CORRESPONDENCE COURSE

Here are photos from 2 more trees on the job I've been working.


I'm trying to begin putting into practice what I've digested from everyone's

* criticism
* observations
* comments
* criticism
* advice
* accounts of your own personal experiences
* etc.


Hope everyone is not burned out on sharing laser beam insight and acid wash criticism.

Thanks in advance!

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TREE 1
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1
TREE1_1_20181129_112601MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

2
TREE1_2_20181129_112630MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_3_20181129_112637MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_4_20181129_112646MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

5
TREE1_6_20181129_112757MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_6_20181129_112757MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_7_20181129_114205MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_8_20181129_114219MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_9_20181129_114230MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_10_20181129_115212MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_11_20181129_115227MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_12_20181129_115223MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

12B
TREE1_12B_20181129_115234MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_13_20181129_115238MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_14_20181129_115246MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_15_20181129_115249MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_16_20181129_115257MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_17_20181129_115524MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE1_18_20181129_115534MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE 2
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1
TREE2_1_20181129_123839MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

2
TREE2_2_20181129_124021MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE2_3_20181129_125016MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

4
TREE2_4_20181129_125043MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE2_5_20181129_131104MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE2_6_20181129_131109MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE2_7_20181129_131324MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE2_8_20181129_131333MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE2_9_20181129_131339MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

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TREE2_10_20181129_131349MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg

==> I GIVE THOSE FELLING CUTS AROUND A "C+" OR "B-" ... what do you think?

==> Does that look like a legitimate friction hitch I made with my Maasdam?

====>>> TOO MANY PICTURES???

Thanks!
 
Call me crazy, but I've never NOT pulled a tree against the direction of the lay. I also always set my pull line as high as possible.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Thanks MB.
These trees didn't require much forward force so I figured the angled pull would be sufficient.... also there wasn't an anchor to attach the rope directly inline with the lay.
I thought I got these realtively high in tree for size of trees(?)
 
It is a miracle!

Small one, but still.

Your cuts are level. What happened, get tired of having all the inHouse loggers yell at you:lol:

Honestly Robert, those stumps look a LOT better than the last one you posted.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
ha, thanks a lot Stig.
I'm hearing everyone's voices in my head at the stump and -- (my ego) battered and bruised -- and am afraid to face your scorn again :)
I was hoping I was at least on the right track....
 
Yup a lot better. A guy I worked with used to often say, 'you're only as good as your last cut/tree'. The point being every cut, every tree is the most important one. You can do a thousand good cuts, but it only takes one shit one to screw everything up. you seem determined and take criticism well and look to be able to learn from it too. So stay on it. Treat each cut/fell as critical.
 
We have been cutting Austrian pines all day in a stand planted in 1877.
Took one of the apprentices along, and let him fall some of the easier ones.

So I have been fault finding on stumps all day.:)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Thanks a lot Squisher. That makes great sense!

cool Stig. Pictures of the trees would be nice. What size saw/bar is your apprentice using? .... how big around are the trees?

Thanks Nutball. I suppose if it split fairly easily it would be Hickory? ... and if not Elm?
 
I think They'd be about the same, but hickory should split less since it is much denser and stronger. They both can have poor splitting habits when green.

Hickory will kind of stink similar to a lot of other trees (cottonwood ect) while elm smells sweet almost like oak, maybe sweeter.
 
Much better cuts Robert, that's a hinge.
Is the pull rope not 1/2"? Trying to figure out why you wouldn't feed the rope right into the masdaam.
Friction hitch sure looks funny, but it held, so can't be too bad. If I don't need to advance the friction hitch at all then I don't use one. Clip the biner right on a clove hitch or midline bowline. If I need a friction hitch in rigging/ pulling I use the prusik hitch.
20181203_171812.jpg
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
Thanks a lot Johnny.

Yes, the pull rope IS the exact 1/2" 3-strand rope used by the Maasdam.....

....but I purposely am using this setup because of what I saw on Patrick (TreeMuggs) website.

>>> I like the idea of having the maasdam sort of portable or modular where I can separate the maasdam from the pull rope.
>>> ... and I can use it on any type of rope ... not just 1/2" 3 strand.


Along those lines, this was sort of practice -- (please see my other thread about setting up an MA with the maasdam) -- for a tree I'm going to need a bigger rope and a lot more pull --- but one which I need to set up an MA on.

yeah, as for the friction hitch... I guess it is sort of a "bastardized" version of something I saw -- maybe a VT ?
I "over-did" the number of wraps to make sure it would hold.

.... do you see or sense anything unsafe in my hitch? ....... other than possibly being non-standard.... I guess at my stage I really need to make sure I am using something "real" and established.

thanks!
 
Yes, and that's likely why Patrick was using it like that, probably had a rope that was incompatible with the masdaam. You're right about having more options this way, just pointing out that it could be simpler with just as much strength.
 
The reason why everyone knows what friction hitches they are using is because it's the right one. The wheel already exists, no need to reinvent it. Use a prussik and be done with it. Good job on the better cuts, make sure your pull point is as high as possible so you maximise leverage.
 
Much improvement, Robert...as all have noted. Place your pull rope higher in the tree; Butch says get a Big Shot, but so far I've seen nothing you are taking on that wouldn't be easily served with a standard throwline setup.
 
Does anyone still make a weight with the tail of a rope and throw that through a crotch? Very easy and fast to get a rope up around 30'.

Robert, what's that knot you have choked around the trunk? I can't think of any knot better than a running bowline for that purpose. TREE1_9_20181129_114230MORE_CRAWFORD_TREE1.jpg
 
*Raises hand*
Yes, we still largely make a weighted bundle with rope tail and send it up @30+'. If we need more initial access, we have a throw bag, Big Shot, and APTA (typically used in that succession of both percent of use and achieved access height).

Is that a daisy chain hitch / timber hitch combo for the trunk tie?
 
Better!

Rope directly into rope puller as designed. Practice is good, though.

Running Bowline for base-tie. What did you use?

Hinges are better thick than thin. Probably can get a bit thinner and/ or consider "gutting the hinge" to reduce the amount fingers to bend.
 
Ya good cuts.. plenty good enough to get the trees to the lay..... that's what counts... might have been overkill ripping the sides of the hinge down. Much improved.. one day you'll look back and this will all seem funny!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
Yes, and that's likely why Patrick was using it like that, probably had a rope that was incompatible with the masdaam. You're right about having more options this way, just pointing out that it could be simpler with just as much strength.

Thanks Johnny!

I prefer shackles when rigging. 2 ton wll are inexpensive, to biners.

Question(s) please.... Peter -- are those the sort of "U" shaped "clevis" shackles that have the screw in bar across the ends?
-- if so......... does it matter how they are loaded?
... i.e. if you connect two ropes or anchor, etc. to one of them it seems they will naturally orient themselves so one rope, etc. is in a corner where the bar meets one of the "U" legs and the other rope, etc. is along the bottom, trough of the "U" (see what I mean?)
.... so do you worry about how the shackle orients itself with the 2 loaded sides? thanks!

The reason why everyone knows what friction hitches they are using is because it's the right one. The wheel already exists, no need to reinvent it. Use a prussik and be done with it. Good job on the better cuts, make sure your pull point is as high as possible so you maximise leverage.

Thanks Kyle!

If you don't have a Big Shot, Robert... you need one.

Thanks MB. Yeah, I did buy one a while back but haven't used it. Even though these are relatively short trees there are lots of branches intertangled and in the way of the throw bag.... I did think about bringing it to this job.

Much improvement, Robert...as all have noted. Place your pull rope higher in the tree; Butch says get a Big Shot, but so far I've seen nothing you are taking on that wouldn't be easily served with a standard throwline setup.

Thanks Mr. Burnham! .... you aren't going soft on me, sir, are you :) .... along with the others here, your's are the most piercing and critical eyes I think about at the base of the tree. --- yes sir, just throwline and throwbag --- but because of lots of intertangled limbs and twigs in way of good throw I may try the Big Shot.

Does anyone still make a weight with the tail of a rope and throw that through a crotch? Very easy and fast to get a rope up around 30'.

Robert, what's that knot you have choked around the trunk? I can't think of any knot better than a running bowline for that purpose.

Yes, as Butch said below -- the Monkey Fist (learned from Peter Jenkins of Tree Climbers International) .... but most of these relatively small trees ... too many branches and twigs in the way and tight crotches.

Well, I think it is some sort of overkill bastardization of a Cow and/or Timber hitch.
sort of practicing two things at once... make center of pulling rope secure in all directions.... but obviously way overkill for this application.
....Need to practice running bowline so I can make one at will....

*Raises hand*
Yes, we still largely make a weighted bundle with rope tail and send it up @30+'. If we need more initial access, we have a throw bag, Big Shot, and APTA (typically used in that succession of both percent of use and achieved access height).

Is that a daisy chain hitch / timber hitch combo for the trunk tie?

Stumpshot, it is some kind of overkill version of a Timber and/or Cow hitch I was thinking.... but I'll leave the final definition to those more experienced. :)

A monkey's fist? Sure! Tie it open or closed, whatever the situation called for!

Yeah, open if you are feeling lucky, right?

Better!

Rope directly into rope puller as designed. Practice is good, though.

Running Bowline for base-tie. What did you use?

Hinges are better thick than thin. Probably can get a bit thinner and/ or consider "gutting the hinge" to reduce the amount fingers to bend.

Thanks Sean!

Yeah I need to learn to tie Running Bowline at will...... I used some sort of Cow/Timber hitch conglomeration I thought..... was sort of trying to copy/practice/emulate what Kenny/TreeSpyder was talking about by doing a full (round?) turn around the running(?) end for stability.

.... I will plan to try gutting hinge on an "easy" tree today. thanks.

Question please.... Sean ----- not to argue ..... but by using Patrick's "modular" method with the Maasdam, it will allow me to pull any size bull rope... and not be limited to a "mere" 3-strand 1/2" rope ..... is there something ill advised or dangerous I'm missing? Thanks!

Ya good cuts.. plenty good enough to get the trees to the lay..... that's what counts... might have been overkill ripping the sides of the hinge down. Much improved.. one day you'll look back and this will all seem funny!

Thanks a lot Murphy!
Well, actually I think what may look like ripping the sides of the hinge down was my messy attempt at shaving off the bark so I could more clearly see the hinge corners.... probably not critical/necessary on these small trees but I want to zero in and perfect as much as possible my technique.
Also by shaving off the bark I can more clearly make where I want my hinges to go on "clear" wood instead of bark.........
..... which I think I will try using a lumber crayon today.
 
You have an overcomplicated base-tie... Practice know at home, work at work. Literally, once around the stem, the actually time to tie a RB is under a second for me. If you can't tie a running Bowline, go practice until it takes under 20 seconds.

I may have tied about a Brazilian RBs.



You have a complicated rope puller, but didn't bring the tool you needed with the pecan (easy hand throw, even).


How big of a bull rope do you have our think you'll need?

I barely use more than half-inch three-strand (my rig has 1/2" tree-master three strand, 1/2" true blue, husky 1/2" double-check braid, 9/16" and 5/8" stable braid, plus others). Almost every time, 1/2" tree-master, or if I'm really pulling or really critical, 1/2" stable-braid.

That being said, used to be that I used 1/2" Amsteel regularly (34k mbs) with a skidder winch ( holy moly strong).






If you can throw-line into the tree, pull both ends over for a base-tie, and lol the night over your tow-ball, you've simply doubled- your pull capacity (make sure tow-ball is rust, grease, and bur free.






Practice gutting the hinge on A STUMP!!!


Shaving bark let's you see the wood fibers. IDK what you meant about the crayon.

Don't consider it a small, insignificant tree. Consider it an opportunity to perfect things. The mechanics of a 6" hinge and 6' hinge are basically the same, just scaled up.
 
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