Pecan Hinge Failure -- what did I miscalculate?

Rope should be higher in the tree, poor hinge, you shouldn’t have been doing it solo, you’re not experienced enough.

Were you insured?
 
I'm not a big fan of decyphering treework from my computer, but...

1. Deeper underbed
2. Pull rope higher

About all I'm gonna guess I'm seeing. Of course, more ass-end on the truck.

I woulda lightened up the heavy side.
 
All I can deduct from the pictures is that you BADLY figured how much back lean that tree had.

The pictures don't show it, but for you to be unable to pull that over grown bush ( In my world that doesn't qualify as a tree) over, it must have been massive.

Stump forensics tells me that you had too much hinge wood, but no where near enough to make the tree hold back like that.

Gross miscalculation of lean is my best guess.

And Robert, How frigging hard is it to make level cuts in both face and back cut?

Had you been one of my apprentices, you'd have gone to bed with a very red and smarting ass for that stump.
 
Looks like back cut was crooked. Did you cut through the hinge on one side? I see the notch and back cut but no evidence of any actual hinge.
I'm really not trying to give you a hard time, but is it at all possible for you to go work the ground with a busy tree service in your area? Even if just a couple months? There's little substitution for real 1 on 1 training.
 
Pull line's set too low in the tree, and too thick a hinge, from the pics.

Mighty funky lookin hinge mate.

That base tie prolly encouraged it to spin on the stump as well.

A higher set pull line woulda given considerably more leverage.

Kudos to yu for postin your costly mistakes, in order to learn from them.

Jomo
 
How much did the bill from the power company come to?

As for the pictures, pull rope higher would have definitely helped.

Sorry if this appears to be kicking a man whilst he is down.

In the past you have mentioned doing work for friends and family cheaply. This is the exact reason you shouldn’t be working for cheap. We take risks and should be compensated/charge accordingly.

I hope no one was hurt apart from a bit of pride. As long as you learn something from the experience then I guess the outcome will be positive.
 
Those of us with balls, post our mistakes.

We are not afraid of ridicule.

Just in case you missed mine:lol: IMG_20181101_135438.jpg
 
Long story short - the heavy side shoulda been climbed and lightened up. It woulda taken all of ten minutes.
 
I pulled down a four phase circuit years ago. Was taking a limb off over the lines. I wanted to rig it and the guy I was working for said just tie a rope and back cut it and we will pull it off.

Well, that didn’t work. Last time I listen to the old boy farmer.

He was in for quite a high bill but managed to sweeten the guys on the job with whiskey and money to say it was a fallen limb ripped them down. Technically they didn’t lie.
 
Everything else notwithstanding, the reason the tree fell to the side is you "reduced" the hinge to the point of failure. The reason the tree didn't fall to the lay is because the pull didn't overcome the resistance from the weight of the tree and stiffness of the initial hinge.


I did the same thing in 2005ish, cost me $2700 on a $700 job.... top of the tree fell and hit the neighboring house.
 
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  • #16
Rope should be higher in the tree, poor hinge, you shouldn’t have been doing it solo, you’re not experienced enough.

Were you insured?

Thanks for the advice, Mick.
Yes, I am insured, but I hope I won't have to use it.
==> all that was damaged on the house was when the service line hard jolted the service pole that goes through the roof.
==> Still waiting to get the bill from my friend, the homeowner.

I'm not a big fan of decyphering treework from my computer, but...

1. Deeper underbed
2. Pull rope higher

About all I'm gonna guess I'm seeing. Of course, more ass-end on the truck.

I woulda lightened up the heavy side.

Yeah, MB, I really underestimated the size/weight.... but my truck had all the traction/power it needed.

==> I chickened out with pulling the rope because I was afraid it might be getting close to breaking.... that's when I went to cutting on the hinge.

All I can deduct from the pictures is that you BADLY figured how much back lean that tree had.

The pictures don't show it, but for you to be unable to pull that over grown bush ( In my world that doesn't qualify as a tree) over, it must have been massive.

Stump forensics tells me that you had too much hinge wood, but no where near enough to make the tree hold back like that.

Gross miscalculation of lean is my best guess.

And Robert, How frigging hard is it to make level cuts in both face and back cut?

Had you been one of my apprentices, you'd have gone to bed with a very red and smarting ass for that stump.

Ha, yeah, Stig, I seem to be getting worse instead of better with my level cuts... optical illusion with saw and bar I guess.... I need to practice more on stumps as has been pointed out.

The tree ("bush") seemed so small, it just seemed like a "piece of cake" (relatively speaking), and I didn't really take what must have been a lot of back lean seriously.

Looks like back cut was crooked. Did you cut through the hinge on one side? I see the notch and back cut but no evidence of any actual hinge.
I'm really not trying to give you a hard time, but is it at all possible for you to go work the ground with a busy tree service in your area? Even if just a couple months? There's little substitution for real 1 on 1 training.

Yeah, Johnny, it was..... although I had carefully scribed the back cut and hinge thickness (per Sean) before starting the back cut.
Yeah, I did cut through one side when I was trying to reduce the hinge... I took off more than I thought I had/would.
No, I appreciate any/all comments advice...... I guess I'm too lazy and/or don't want to commit and be tied in to something like that.
==> what I would like to find is a "retired" tree guy about my age who I could somehow team up with.

Pull line's set too low in the tree, and too thick a hinge, from the pics.

Mighty funky lookin hinge mate.

That base tie prolly encouraged it to spin on the stump as well.

A higher set pull line woulda given considerably more leverage.

Kudos to yu for postin your costly mistakes, in order to learn from them.

Jomo

Yeah, Jomo, the hinge started out much better than that, although one side was higher than the other.

How much did the bill from the power company come to?

As for the pictures, pull rope higher would have definitely helped.

Sorry if this appears to be kicking a man whilst he is down.

In the past you have mentioned doing work for friends and family cheaply. This is the exact reason you shouldn’t be working for cheap. We take risks and should be compensated/charge accordingly.

I hope no one was hurt apart from a bit of pride. As long as you learn something from the experience then I guess the outcome will be positive.

Rich, I haven't gotten any bill from the power company... yet.
No, I appreciate your looking at this and commenting.
great point about working cheap.
I have been trying to imagine how much it could come to.


Nice boots!

Long story short - the heavy side shoulda been climbed and lightened up. It woulda taken all of ten minutes.

Yeah, that would (should) have been a relatively easy climb for a beginner.
It seemed such a small tree I underestimated it.
I used my lightest rope (Samson 3 strand)... if I had used my heavier rope I wouldn't have been afraid to let my truck pull more.

Everything else notwithstanding, the reason the tree fell to the side is you "reduced" the hinge to the point of failure. The reason the tree didn't fall to the lay is because the pull didn't overcome the resistance from the weight of the tree and stiffness of the initial hinge.


I did the same thing in 2005ish, cost me $2700 on a $700 job.... top of the tree fell and hit the neighboring house.

Thanks, Carl.
Yeah, that really does summarize it which was my basic post op evaluation.
I totally underestimated the back force of the tree... and with I guess too thick of a hinge and a light rigging rope.

pecan is very brittle
No_Bivy, I was wondering about that... the properties of Pecan (i.e. the hinge).
I think if it had been Oak the hinge might have bent?


Thanks everyone so far.
I hope my replies have done justice to your comments.


But why didn't my stacked wedges (see picture) cause the tree to go over? ... because the tree was so short?
 
In picture #6, why didn't you pretension the mechanical advantage? You had it set up but it look like you didn't even use it. For what it's worth, I rarely use wedges. A pull line is usually enough to get a tree moving. If it's way off balance, I won't even try to drop it without first removing some weight from the back side.
 
Not only did you cut through the hinge on one side and leave way too much holding wood on the other side, but I'm guessing there was a limb that snagged a wire and wouldn't allow you to pull the tree over. I'm guessing that wire hooked on the end of a limb had better leverage on the tree than your dinky little rope tied a quarter of the way up.

Just a guess, I may be wrong. But it's happened to me before as well.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
In picture #6, why didn't you pretension the mechanical advantage? You had it set up but it look like you didn't even use it. For what it's worth, I rarely use wedges. A pull line is usually enough to get a tree moving. If it's way off balance, I won't even try to drop it without first removing some weight from the back side.

Yeah, Mellow, I'm not sure... good point... I don't remember. It seems like I might have had it pre-tensioned and tied off at one point before I began the back cut but I don't remember.

Not only did you cut through the hinge on one side and leave way too much holding wood on the other side, but I'm guessing there was a limb that snagged a wire and wouldn't allow you to pull the tree over. I'm guessing that wire hooked on the end of a limb had better leverage on the tree than your dinky little rope tied a quarter of the way up.

Just a guess, I may be wrong. But it's happened to me before as well.

Thanks, Brian.
Yeah, I had thought I had a decent hinge at first.... but then when it didn't go I started trying to reduce it.

For the limb in back... I'm pretty sure there was no such limb.... i.e. before starting I had (from the ground) removed a few limbs/branches that were below and/or intertangled with the wire.... I'm pretty sure the only other limbs were *above* the wire.

Just to say..... this is kind of embarrassing and shameful.

I had intended those pictures to document a well done job (or at least a successful job).

But I want to "take my medicine" so to speak, no matter how bitter. i.e. "reproofs of instruction are the way of life"

Just to say.... thanks all for chiming in!
 
Maybe it would've gone better if someone was pulling the rope while you were putting the back cut in.
 
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