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Thread: Let's fight about ropes vs wedges.

  1. #11
    TreeHouser
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyYLTG View Post
    Plus I have plenty of people to pull the rope.



    Maybe let's not fight but let's discuss. .
    I haven't even seen a wedge in a few weeks.. The pick up that usually hauls my saws and gear has been in the shop sine I don't know when... Maybe there are a few in there... As far as wedging and pulling together.... I've done it and can confirm how well it works when needed, which is almost never when there is a 5,000 lb truck or skid steer on the end of the rope(s)... One back leaning locust we did had the skid steer spinning tracks even with 8:1 MA system.. those wedges did an awesome job, adding just enough force to the system to straighten the tree up to a point where the skid steer could pull it. That was around 2010.. Might have used the combination a few times only since then.

    Lately its rare that I even stand at the stump when the tree goes.. There is something sweet about walking well out of the drop zone and watching the tree go with the waive of a hand.

    And as far as plenty of men to pull with.... today is the first time we pulled a tree by hand in recent memory...

    One of these days I may remind myself to get the hang of using wedges... But honestly... that day may never come. I like PHAT HINGES! I get nervous when there isn't a pull line in the tree... Even on straight trees....

  2. #12
    TreeHouser Sponsor flushcut's Avatar
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    I always wondered about that video. On one hand you have mega PPE guy and on the other non-existent PPE guy.

  3. #13
    TreeHouser Sponsor treesmith's Avatar
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    I use ropes and wedges together in big/leaning trees. After tensioning the line, I notch and start back cut. Once there is sufficient room (not to hit wedge with chain), I drive a wedge in reasonably tight, add tension, then continue the backcut. The wedge is a sure sign whether or not the tree is moving. I've cut big trees before where there was a lot of tension on the line, and there was not enough movement in the tree you could detect it by eye, but that loose wedge told me it was moving.
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  4. #14
    Treehouser Sponsor SeanKroll's Avatar
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    Keeping wedges tight is important.

    Many people will put a tight wedge, and a medium/ long one loose enough to have some slant to it, barely in the kerf, which will show tipping faster than the tight wedge.
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  5. #15
    TreeHouser Sponsor Raj's Avatar
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    Both wedges and ropes in residential, open areas wedges, unless it has a horrible back lean or limb locked.
    Peter

  6. #16
    Patron saint of bore-cutters Sponsor stig's Avatar
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    I have nothing to add to what Burnham posted.

    Sean, I use that " wedge dial" tecnique with setting a wedge by it's very tip, so it'll show movement, when tyhe situation calls for it.

    I can't really see it's value in an arborist setting, but when felling in the woods on a windy day, it can tell you when it is time to cut like hell or have a barber chair.

    If it is really windy, I will of course set a back strap.

  7. #17
    Woods walker Sponsor Burnham's Avatar
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    Here's a link into a long thread that has been bumped several times. It's always been a popular one. This is what I referred to in passing in my first post to this thread.

    Anyway, klimbinfool Greg posed a question about wedge use, and I answered. It was followed by some good back and forth. Might be worth a read.

    https://www.masterblasterhome.com/sh...l=1#post436981
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  8. #18
    Dormant hero!! Sponsor sotc's Avatar
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    If a couple guys can pull it over with a rope, a couple wedges will generally be much faster imo. Sometimes I'll set a rope and pull with a GRCS if I don't want to beat wedges on a back leaner. Sometimes, a real back leaner I will run the GRCS pulling 3 or 5 to 1, with wedges and a jack. If I have to use a rope, it is never just a rope, always a wedge. Heck, on head leaners I will still set wedges just in case I miss read or the wind kicks up. It really isn't an either or thing, it is a case by case thing. Even if I know I won't need one, I often set one to watch the movement.
    This had wedges, jack and multi block purchase pull https://www.instagram.com/p/7zE7ahjY...-by=treewillie
    Willie
    Southern Oregon Tree Care,LLC
    “Pruning is one of the best things an arborist can do for a tree but one of the worst things we can do to a tree.” Shigo

  9. #19
    Treehouser Benjo75's Avatar
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    I use ropes for pull as much as possible. Unless the tree is pretty close to balanced or a slight back lean. 95% of the time I am in the tree already so it's easy to send down for a pull rope when I've made my last cut. However I do like to wedge if it isn't going to take beating on them for 20 minutes. With wedges, once the tree hits the ground you pick up the wedges and walk away. If its a big hairy oak you might be 20 minutes sawing the rope out. I had one a couple of weeks ago that hit just perfect and drove a rope in the ground about 6 feet. It wasn't a clean up tree. I had to cut blocks off and tie a chain on the limb and barely pulled it out with the tractor. On the other hand if it's a very tight spot and you need your hinge holding all the way to the ground, especially if the top is already out, sometimes they just don't want to fall. Especially dead trees. They will just sit there and look at you all the while having a forward lean of 30 degrees. With a rope you can pull them over slowly with a larger hinge all the way to the ground. I guess I mean to say that I tend to use whatever method is safest first of all, after that it's whichever way is quickest. The majority of our jobs we do the cleanup so we have the tractor there so it's easy to pull and recover the rope.

  10. #20
    TreeHouser Sponsor theTreeSpyder's Avatar
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    i think of wedge lift and rope pull as added force inputs; directed to the same central pivot to challenge/exercise a hinge to be thicker.
    By this measurement the rope is decidedly at a larger leveraged distance.
    .
    But wedge builds it's force from that leveraged point differently, and then holds it, then releases it when tree moves
    >>wedge is also more compact, dead-azz safety backstop
    .
    i like using both wedge and rope, but wedge mostly as a safety backstop, perhaps rest and re-eval of rope pull sometimes.
    .
    i think we must also consider direction of the input forces also.
    >>i think we should force to path, not against sideLean.
    .
    i think we should force a thicker hinge, that then adds it's own leveraged multipliers into the chain of events/controlled support.
    i think this is even more important in shallow leaners that on their own, make a much weaker hinge before moving, as they are less loaded.
    .
    A 15degree forward lean will force about half as strong /half as much forward resistance(support) a hinge as a 30degree forward lean
    >>because the sine of 15 is ~.26 and the sine of 30 is .5 >> read like 25% and 50% of leveraged load potential at full tilt 90degrees
    The 30degree lean has then a stronger hinge and less distance to travel and build speed etc.
    >>While the 15degree leaner starts with half as strong a hinge, then must pass thru the 30degree doubling in leveraged load with half as much strength!
    >>In addition to that we have movement to factor in, so multiply the load X speed SQUARED against the hinge forged at 15degrees
    .
    So, fake tree to think has more load on 15degree leaner by input extra force, pre-prep tree with thicker hinge for it's future travels into ever increasing leveraged loading on hinge arc.
    .
    That is just playing the 2dimensional forward lean part.
    For sideLean would look at hinge shapes and see that some can have same forward resistance as above, but then offer different sidewards resistance/support via Tapered Hinge (perhaps Dutch Step at tearoff).
    .
    So look to use tools to force stronger hinge, and then trust that to fight steering, using the leverages multiplied thru the hinge
    >>not trying to control sideLean with tools directly, but only by running same force quantity thru hinge multiplier.
    .
    Further can center punch hinge to reduce forward fold resistance, but then re-apportion back to same forward resistance/support
    >>but in further hinge taper against sideLean.
    .
    By this model i think should let go of rope, like wedge stops lifting when tree is committed.
    Can sometimes have CoG in a 'floating' iffy position as motion starts and reel in somewhat
    >>but i think more proper to have Tapered Hinge architecture DEMANDING if 'float' iffy CoG sideLean to start motion
    >>have a leveraged line of force thru Tapered Hinge giving INLINE, straighter support guidance, and on full arc of tour on hinge..
    .
    time to clock-in, sorry any mis-spellz
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