Bottle Tree Help

Tempe21

Treehouser
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
18
Howdy folks, first time poster. Hope y'all can help. Grateful a community like this is available.

I live In Tempe, Arizona. For those unfamiliar with the area, it’s hot here. Like super hot. Summer temperatures exceed 110* regularly.

I purchased my home about three years ago and I am the proud owner of two Australian Bottle Trees. They are the Brachychiton Populneos or Kurrajong version that makes a horrible mess and have the annoying seed pods that hurt to step on. But that's ok!! I love the trees. Great shade. Anyway, I think they're at least 20 yeas old, the house was built in the 70s but they look too young to be 50 years old.

Over the last year or so, on the north side of the trees, the leaves have been yellowing. Branches dry out, become brittle, and die. A couple of years ago, I had an arborist come out and they cleaned up all of my trees, but to the tune of $1100, I'd prefer trying to fix this problem myself. This spring I added some 16-4-4 spikes around the tree line, however that has yet to make an impact.

I've attached pictures to illustrate what I’m dealing with. I suspect they're receiving too much water due to the lawn underneath. I'm kind of in a tough spot there though - I cut the water to the grass trying to help the trees for a season and the house just looks like shit without the grass. The tree health didn't appear to benefit either, but if that is the culprit, whoever planted them (and the subsequent grass) wasn't very forward thinking for the symbiotic relationship between the two.

Ultimately I think I'm running out of options. I'm extremely concerned the trees are dying. Any assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated. Fingers crossed, one of y'all have some advice that will help. Thanks!
 
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Tree time is much slower than turf time. It will take time for cultural practices to improve vigor. How is this year's growth?

Your root collars are buried. Start with some basic manual excavation (fingers, whisk broom, garden hose) to expose them and see if you have any stem-girdling root issues (check out google images and youtube about Root Crown Excavation and Stem-girdling root pruning).




What do you know about the growth habits, likes/ dislikes of your specific species? I know nothing. You mentioned too much water. Quick google-read, likes water every week to two weeks in summer.


Re: fertilizing, get a soil test done to see what your soil needs.


They mentioned chlorosis (yellowing of leaves, think 'chlorox') in pH 8.0+, with remedies. Again, a soil test.


So what did the arborist do? Prune stuff off the tree?
 
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  • #7
Hi Sean, thanks for the reply.

Yes, the arborist pruned the trees. I wouldn’t say they were overly aggressive, but they definitely cleaned them up.

I’ve read about the tree collar exposure. I put some wells around them down to the soil line in hopes the roots would get an oxygen boost. That said, I’m also concerned due the Bottle Trees having a tap root that the overwatering may be worse with the wells (I do my best to make sure the wells don’t pool water).

Thanks for the soil test suggestion. Not terribly familiar with the process, but heard it’s easy. As for the alkalinity, Arizona soil is notorious for high ph. I’m thinking a sulfur dose to the lawn may lower the ph if the test comes back high.

I do have some new growth. Just not on the bare/dying (?) sides.

Edit: just googled stem girdling. Checked that out when I did the wells. I’m good there. The base of the trunk is clean. No stranglers.
 
You don't cut a tree into health. Cutting off dead doesn't hurt the tree. Cutting off live, does. This is of course, acceptable for good reason (cleaning up a tree is not a "good" reason for the tree...its all for you). There are times were pruning is good for the tree, generally, the tree is happy having grown stuff where it has grown stuff...roofs, cars, views, access are often the reason tree are cut upon.

Find someone who specializes in Plant Health Care. You won't growth that shade back any time soon. Get a ball park estimate for their expertise and services. It might be money well spent. You will at least have a price to consider, versus trying to do it yourself.

You've already invested $1100. It would be a waste for the trees to die unnecessarily.




By "tree well", you may be saying something different than arbs do. What do you mean?
 
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  • #9
Thanks, again!!

The wells I created are basically a 12” ring around the trunk down to the soil line so that the raised beds aren’t suffocating the trunk.

I’ll definitely look into calling a few experts for an estimate. Two questions though.

1. Do I even bother with an estimate from the previous arborist?

2. I know it’s tough to tell from a few pictures, but do you think I’m at serious risk of losing them?
 
1. What are the arbs qualifications and specialties?

Personally, I've never taken a soil test or applied/ injected chemicals. I refer that stuff out. Local expert available. I know a lot about fungal issues that most guys who take a basic arborist text don't. I didn't know that stuff when I took my ISA-Certified Arb testing. I was a CA for 6 years, didn't renew. I know waaaay more than I did when I was first certified about 9 years ago.

Credentials only mean what the credentials mean.

Find someone with skills and experience, if they have the credentials, great. You don't ask Mario Andretti to see his driver's license that he got at 16 y.o. The plastic card that says he passed is of no use on the track.

IDK if our local PHC pro is a CA. He's been at it since 1960 and is very knowledgeable.

2. IDK. If your roof was leaking and you had water damage, you'd do something.



If you lose them, it will cost you a lot more than caring for them, as they provide you shade.


Get rid of the planter rings. More pics of "root collar".



https://www.google.com/search?tbm=i....4.18.1690.0..0j0i5i30k1j0i30k1.0.80aReM0z6zw



The buried root collar issue is not closely tied to oxygen to the roots.
 
If you have a lot of SGRoots, you can manually excavate, or they make air-excavation tools. You can (slowly) use a good-sized air compressor to help (with a face shield) or hydraulic (water) excavation.
 
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  • #12
Thanks for the advice. In the past I’ve used https://www.arborcareaz.com. Their reviews were pretty awesome, but that’s neither here no there. I’ll go on a mission to find an expert I can trust.

Get rid of the rings as in full then with dirt? Was worried the dirt was rotting the trunk. I do think I’m ok from the root collar perspective. I’ve dug around enough down there and haven’t seen anything resembling the pictures.

I appreciate the forum and all the help!
 
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Reviews are from a bunch of people who know little, watching and being serviced by people who know more. If you were on 1, and I was on 10, it would look remarkable, until you find out that there is a 1000. Just generally speaking.

Reviews are often not representative of the overall picture, and are sometimes 'rigged'. "Well, we'll take out that extra tree that we damaged and you wanted out anyway, for free, if you give us a good review, still," could have a review that read, "I got more than my money's worth. The crew worked with us to really improve our view".



That website was made by professional website makers with general info.

No credentials/ affiliations/ specifics.

Did they inspect your root crown, as they say they will on their website?




Their website says yellowing/ chlorosis might be caused by pests. Nothing about soil.



For tree care, an ISA-Certified Arborist is a plus, generally more knowledgeable than most. A Board Certified Master Arborist is a very studied person.

https://www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist/findanarborist
 
We neede to get Guy in on this.
Does anybody know how to get hold of him?
 
Private message.


Tempe, if you use the search engine, enter "treelooker". Click on his name. You can click on a private message link. Direct him to this thread with a link, asking advice.
 
Don't let whoever did your neighbors trees anywhere near your trees. Too many things that the pictures don't show to make any kind of recommendations. However, when I see two trees with one side more stressed than the other in a small lawn area, a watering problem is not what jumps to my mind. More likely to have been something of an abiotic nature that happened some time ago. What does the trunk bark around the dead limbs look like?
 
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  • #18
Haha, ya DMc. I guess their trees snuck into the first picture. You don’t want to see a full version of the butcher job that their “friend” did.
 
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  • #19
TreeLooker’s inbox is full. However I did successfully PM ThatTreeGuy so hopefully he can add to the conversation.

Thanks again for all of the assistance. Any additional insight here is greatly appreciated!! 8)
 
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  • #20
Checked your registry link, Sean.

Searched by Zip and didnt find anyone registered to the company I used previously.

Good to know. I’ll start calling some folks on the list later this week.
 
I don't think Dave will get your pm, he doesn't come here much now but you should be able to find him.

I don't know a great deal about these trees, don't see many around here but they are tough and don't like wet feet that's for sure. They're drought resistant and the ph shouldn't worry them, but they are a bit close together.

Here's a factsheet about them, might help a bit if you haven't already seen one. The blue dot areas are pretty hot, mid 40'sC and most of the red ones can get up around there. http://www.florabank.org.au/lucid/key/species navigator/media/html/Brachychiton_populneus.htm
 
An easy and in fact, the most accurate test you can do to determine if you have a water/drainage issue is to dig a hole. A post hole digger is the easiest but a shovel will work just fine. Go 18" to 24" down. What do you see? Is the dirt stagnant and wet or crumbly and dry? Cover the hole and check it after the lawn has finished getting watered. There should be no standing water.
 
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  • #24
Steve - Thanks for the factsheet and insight. I'll email Guy.

DMc - Sounds like I have some digging to do! I'll also post some pics of the trunk bark below.
 
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