first lowering device Qs

Spellfeller

Clueless but careful
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
637
Location
Arden, NC
Hi, all:

After a lot of research, I'm leaning towards the Stein units. Likely the:

RC1000: WLL 1000kg/2200lb (9/16" rope max)

Three questions come to mind:

  1. Goal was finding a solid LD with PLENTY of cushion above the light to medium rigging I'm likely to tackle. How'd I do?
  2. With a 9/16" line, should this set-up be adequate for a holding line on the scarlet oak?
  3. What rope diameter dead eye or whoopie would you recommend as an anchor?

Thanks for your thoughts, people!
 
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  • #2
Still digging, and finding some answers for question #3.

According to "Young Reg," :) 16mm or 5/8" (Whoopie) for the RC1000, and 19mm or 3/4" (dead eye) for the RC2000.

According to Carson @ TS, 3/4" (Whoopie) for everything!

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The large Port-a-Wrap has served me well for many years. I almost bought a Hobbs back in the early 1980's but I probably wouldn't have used it on a lot of jobs.

The real question is, will you use it enough to justify the cost? And, do you really need it for the type of work that you typically perform?
 
We use a GRCS. Can't figure how the Stein units could possibly be better. Based on August Hunicke's videos, it would appear that he used a GRCS in 2015 (and was singing its praises), but then somewhere in 2016 he switched to a Stein. Pretensioning and craning away limbs with the GRCS helps avoid getting stuck on the way down in tight spaces. We don't plan on switching away any time soon. Care to weigh in, August?

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The GRCS is a decent lowering device, but overpriced and prone to breakage. We have destroyed more than one, and I know a few folks who have done the same.
If you need something bombproof,reasonably priced, and can handle anything you throw at it, get a Hobbs!
I still have my original that has 30 yrs of hard work on it, and it still performs perfectly (even after being run over by a Cat).
The Steins are great, simple lowering device at a fair price.
Pic of a shiny new Hobbs my front seat.
IMG_0868.jpg
 
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  • #6

Those Good Systems are pretty awesome. They just ooze quality.

They're almost 3x more expensive than the Steins. Whether they're 3x more capable, I don't know:
RCW3001 $1048
RCW3002 $1398

If you need something bombproof,reasonably priced, and can handle anything you throw at it, get a Hobbs!

Cool, Rico. A classic for sure!

All of them are too rich for me, unless I get into some SERIOUS moonlighting as a tree guy!
 
Spellfeller, your initial thoughts of getting a Stein, either the RC1000 or the RC2000 was on the mark. I can't imagine that you will need more than what they can give. They are well designed, a good value and an improvement over the Port-a-Wraps.
 
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  • #8
Spellfeller, your initial thoughts of getting a Stein, either the RC1000 or the RC2000 was on the mark. I can't imagine that you will need more than what they can give. They are well designed, a good value and an improvement over the Port-a-Wraps.

Thank you, sir; appreciate your endorsement of the Steins!
 
Hi, all:

After a lot of research, I'm leaning towards the Stein units. Likely the:

RC1000: WLL 1000kg/2200lb (9/16" rope max)

Three questions come to mind:

  1. Goal was finding a solid LD with PLENTY of cushion above the light to medium rigging I'm likely to tackle. How'd I do?
  2. With a 9/16" line, should this set-up be adequate for a holding line on the scarlet oak?
  3. What rope diameter dead eye or whoopie would you recommend as an anchor?

Thanks for your thoughts, people!

IMO a large porty and a fiddle block can handle a good bit of rigging. I have a GRCS and a sub of mine has a HOBBS but for day to day rigging it's the porty and fiddle block that have a home in the rigging bag. Buckingham or Stein it doesn't matter all that much, Coke vs Pepsi. I like the large Buckingham porty with 15' of 3/4" tennex.
 
We use a GRCS. Can't figure how the Stein units could possibly be better. Based on August Hunicke's videos, it would appear that he used a GRCS in 2015 (and was singing its praises), but then somewhere in 2016 he switched to a Stein. Pretensioning and craning away limbs with the GRCS helps avoid getting stuck on the way down in tight spaces. We don't plan on switching away any time soon. Care to weigh in, August?

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They were never meant to be better. Just more robust and a lot less expensive.

To the original poster. Unless your doing a ton of technical rigging over the course of a year, a GRCS, HOBBS or Stein 3000 series is overkill and over-spending for a first lowering device. Extra large Portawrap or Stein 2000 would be my advice. Both are simple, user friendly, strong as hell and easy to store. Winching/ lifting is great and all....but never lose site of the fact that you want to send the tree down, not up....and in manegable sizes.
 
A large porty is the best place to start. It does 90% of everything & even if you do upgrade to something bigger in the future, it always remains useful.
 
Having used both, if I had it to do over again I would get the RC2000 over the large Port-a-Warp. The Port-a Wrap is a good tool for sure and will get the job done but the changes that Reg made on the RC2000 design make it a pleasure to use. It has the combined attributes of both the porty and a strap on bollard. It is worth the little bit more that it cost.
 
Jeff are you doing this around the house or for hire? You might be better off just getting some 3 strand or single braid and natural crouching for now....

Edit: after reading more, I'm assuming you are doing work around your own house. You need to remember that if you are going to rig something, there has to be a reason. When you watch August or Reg do badass complicated rigging swinging whole limbs over houses and right into a chipper, you need to realize that they are doing that to save time usually. The same limbs could usually be taken in smaller pieces, with either no rigging or less complicated rigging, but it takes longer, and may make more divots that have to be fixed later. They are using decades of experience to safely remove larger sections saving time and effort, but are handling larger weights, and upping the difficulty accordingly.

Starting out, learning to control brush by natural crotch rigging and taking it in sections will likely be easier, cheaper, safer, and will force you to improve on climbing, work positioning, and saw control. Unless you have the best yard in three counties, fixing a few divots at your own house is dramatically cheaper and safer than attempting to rig whole limbs with either an inexperienced groundie or none at all. That oak you posted is a difficult tree now because you let it go so long (without looking at it), you might be best renting a lift to piece it out in small cuts, or understanding the risks attempting to take large pieces or the whole thing at once. Perhaps hiring trees that have a difficulty beyond what you are comfortable with is cheap compared to the alternative....
 
I?d get a porty myself. You can do a lot with them. I really have very little experience with anything else. Can?t get the boss to flip the bill so I make do. I?ve managed to do a few removals;)
 
Amazing your "boss" won't spring for a porty. I wouldn't work for someone like that. Every boss I've ever worked for got me whatever I asked of them.
 
I?d get a porty myself. You can do a lot with them. I really have very little experience with anything else.

I read that as "I have only got a porty, used little else...and do just fine with the porty".

One of us is cross-eyed I think.
 
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  • #24
...Starting out, learning to control brush by natural crotch rigging and taking it in sections will likely be easier, cheaper, safer, and will force you to improve on climbing, work positioning, and saw control. Unless you have the best yard in three counties, fixing a few divots at your own house is dramatically cheaper and safer than attempting to rig whole limbs with either an inexperienced groundie or none at all. That oak you posted is a difficult tree now because you let it go so long (without looking at it), you might be best renting a lift to piece it out in small cuts, or understanding the risks attempting to take large pieces or the whole thing at once. Perhaps hiring trees that have a difficulty beyond what you are comfortable with is cheap compared to the alternative....

Kyle, I REALLY appreciate this perspective and the thought that went into your post. Thank you!

The impetus for buying a first lowering device was solely to a) capture tension on a holding line and b) release it quickly. I would NOT be rigging that nasty oak in any other way. (Besides a pull line.) The current plan is not climbing it at all and falling it from the ground. I thought about a lift, but the terrain is so sloped that I think its stability would be compromised.

I have some experience with NCR and will continue to use it, while also SLOWLY experimenting with light loads from healthier trees on the Stein. (NOT the current tree.)

My problem as a "book-taught, video-taught, TreeHouse-taught" VERY amateur arb is that in order to grow and continue to learn, I need to try new things while always favoring safety. It can be a hard balance to strike. In the end, I completely agree that we need to know our limits and call in the pros when needed. Watching them work and learning from them is part of how I justify their price--along with it being far cheaper than ER trips and physical therapy! :|:
 
I made my porty, but finally bought the fixed bollard.
It was in back-order on my list of do-it-yourself things (I still have the steel tube to make it) and buying it was a good way to get it in a reasonable time:D
 
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