Hourly rate to subcontract, . Mini with BMG/ bucket and operator?

SeanKroll

Treehouser
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
12,252
Location
Olympia, WA
What do you think is a good hourly subcontractor rate and minimum for me with my mini and bmg to help local arborists who are without iron?

I'd say that I'm pretty solid on the machine, and pretty efficient at doing what's needing to be done. Good at directly feeding my chuck and duck, which I suspect is harder than an a hydraulic feed, 12" machine. I have the hitch for towing chippers and trailers into place. I typically move my 4400 pound chipper around, off-road. A BC1000 or BB250 would be 25% heavier.


Mini is 2700 pounds, 1050 pound for 50% lift capacity, 32HP.
 
Around here Bobcat/wheel loader guys average about $75+ per hour. Neighbor has a Bobcat, he charges $125 first hour then $75 per hour.
 
Charge whatever the market will bear. Personally, I'd charge $150 an hour with a three hour minimum, portal to portal.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Is it transported to you, with a specialty-built-exactly-for-treework attachment, and an expert operator?

General Contractor is relieved of risk of damage to the machine, as well.

Kind of an apples to oranges comparison.
 
Charge whatever the market will bear. Personally, I'd charge $150 an hour with a three hour minimum, portal to portal.

I would say no less than that. No less.

The three hour minimum is a MUST. Really, think about it, by the time you get there, get back to the shop it going to be an easy 3 hours. Even if they use you for 15 minutes.

Think about the cost of a set of tires, a clutch. what ever else you do for just for maintenance. You can never charge enough, lol.

You set the market rate as high as you can. I mean how many other people offer that service?
 
What do you think is a good hourly subcontractor rate and minimum for me with my mini and bmg to help local arborists who are without iron? ...

Charge your going rate. You should already have your hourly cost/profit margins calculated. Helping your competitors is walking a fine line and should be weighted in your favor not theirs.
 
Is it transported to you, with a specialty-built-exactly-for-treework attachment, and an expert operator?

General Contractor is relieved of risk of damage to the machine, as well.

Kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

I think it’s a relevant comparison $250 a day.

Say you charge $100 per hour for 8 hours that’s, well you can work that out!

If you can get one for 2fitty and someone to drive it for a hunnert and a six pack, big saving.
 
But, ......you can't get a Sean to operate for a hundred and a sixer.

Along with the higher end of what others have said factor in what your skill and knowledge will add to production.

And along with the risk you have taken in investing in equipment and tha actual cost and time of its upkeep every hour you run it is one hour closer to mandatory replacement.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Thanks for all the input.

Mick, you have seen the difference between a loader bucket and grapple. Enormous, IME

Waiting on delivery at an uncertain time from the rental company costs money. Picking up and returning with company truck and trailer takes time and resources, including a competent driver, with the risk of a traffic accident or traffic jam. Due to geography, our roads are a bit congested for our size.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
$125/ hour, 3 hour minimum, portal to portal, seems reasonable.

I will have to schedule out time for it, which complicated my job and crew.


I'm figuring, with solo- machine subcontract work, I can bid my tree jobs higher, and sell less at a better margin.

Less physical demand and risk than tree work, though I do feel like I've ridden a horse after a few hours of rough terrain operation on the mini, spring loaded operator's platform, springy knees, and all.
 
Yes agreed Mick. And after that it's up to Sean to market his superior performance.

All things can be had cheaper. Some people will only want that, many when presented with the right picture will want to pay more.
 
It?s wild when you think about it. I can get a crane for half a day for 6-700. Should the Mini cost close to the crane?

Crane 200k. Mini 25k. Crane skilled operator, Mini can be a drunk operator. Just playing devils advocate. Tho I don’t sub out my secret weapons.
 
Prevailing wage for a laborer (who runs a mini skid on construction jobs) in Olympia is just under 48 an hour. Machine rental is probably close to 300 a day, grapple rental is another 200, fuel would be 50? So roughly 1000 a day plus taxes, more for insurance, unemployment, workers comp, etc. For supplying a machine with a grapple and an operator, going rate is at least 125 an hour. I understand that ground guys get less to do the same thing, but that's what the costs are for the construction company across the street. I would be tempted to do a 4 hour min, you would probably only be able to do 2 jobs a day on different sites. So for 500 you would do all the hard work on a job for them, and you would make enough to comfortably and profitably run your machine.
 
That's more than I get subbing out with my bucket truck. Guess it depends on the area. Just saying you're worth that much doesn't mean a bunch of people will line up to pay it.

And keep in mind you're subbing to tree guys, not pencil pushers. Most tree guys aren't afraid of work and will only hire the machine if there is a decent amount of money to be saved. Otherwise most seem more than happy to keep cuttin' and chunkin'.
 
You are under 125 an hour for a bucket truck? How long does it take you to do a 1000 take down, no cleanup or anything, just the tree removal? It definitely depends on the area, but that was the prices for his area. In reality, the cost for the job is the same, regardless of what you use. What changes is the efficiency, and therefore the time that the job takes. You can drag it all out by hand, or you can use a crane an remove the tree in a few cuts. For the crane to be worth it, you have to make more per hour so that after it's costs you are making way more money. If you are comparing a crane to a lift for example, if the crane costs more to run while not lowering the time on the job, you should run a lift because you are making more per hour after the costs are added in. Sean is also not dying for work, and supplying a truck, trailer, mini, grapple, insurance, and an operator should cost a fair amount, which if his competitors were smart would gladly pay and do 2 removals a day as opposed to one.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Again, thanks for all the input.

A bucket compared to a BMG seems like a pistol to a bazooka. IMG_20180326_123835879.jpg

I had to do a new manuever to pull the 38' cedar mill log around a glacial erratic boulder.

I couldn't quite get up the hill, so I did resort to manually chaining this to pull it 6' until I could grapple it.

IMG_20180326_123750862.jpg

Probably stacked $400 of mill logs than could otherwise be poor firewood. My friend was asking about cedar logs. He has more good firewood than he needs. He has the knuckle boom with grapples. He'll deliver her firand maple logs to her firewood area, and take cedar from her driveway.


Nobody can skid or load logs by hand.



I am just aiming for a price to be worth my while to have to schedule people firmly.
The mini is worth more than 5 guys, when being used. That's about $23/ hour for Worker's Comp, alone.


The stump sub doesn't give an hourly, he's effectively billing $200/ hr onsite. He destroys the stump way faster than I could either with my own, or a rental machine. I make money on top of that.
 
Sean, I just wouldn't do it at all....unless you're desperately short of work. If you're partnering up on a job and getting due recognition from the customer then that's fine....but otherwise why would you want to use you're own personal investment and expertise to the benefit of your competitions pocket and reputation?
 
A thou a day for using a loader? If I thought that was feasible I?d chuck everything else I owned away.

I don?t see it. Not in a million years.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Hard to compare to a foreign market, but what would you pay per hour for a sub with your machine, if you didn't have any iron (so quite possibly no experience operating equipment, if rented)?
 
Honestly I don’t know, but if I was pay a guy a thousand for a day he’d need to bring a bit more than a 32hp loader.

But since you ask, I guess 4 to 500 a day if I was to still get any money out of the job.

The comparison with grinding is interesting but grinders have consumables, teeth, belts bearings all take a pounding so you need to charge more, a loader, like a digger should show a lot less wear over longer periods that a grinder.

Don’t get me wrong, if you can get it, more power to your elbow. I just don’t think most tree jobs will wear that kind of extra expense.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
Unless its a really big, dozen tree, type job, or a super long, uphill drag medium job, I can't imagine needing a loader for more than a few hours. Unless its a pre-agreed end time for job 1, scheduling a second job in a day would be hard.

You make good points about consumables.



A huge reason that I wanted this Boxer was its adjustable-width undercarriage (34.5" for a 36" gate), which I need a lot to get in small paths and gates, along with the wide tracks and expanded width of 43.5". It goes all over, and not-infrequently, I get stuff through areas I can't even stand up straight.
It goes all over, and has good capacity. It fits this market really well. In an easy-access market, a full sized loader with grapple would be king.
 
Back
Top