Where's the SAKA knee ascender?

TreeMuggs

Treehouser
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Nice video by Joel Gardner (Free Fallin') about the history and development of mechanical ascenders, rope walking, and knee ascenders, up to the present day controversy surrounding the discontinuation of the SAKA. Worth checking out.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EyB1qMYo9I0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
The embedded history. Ha! the old fundamentals was referenced again. even got the name right. I didn't know there was a suit going on about the knee ascender. It's been some time since I even heard of it, actually.
 
That was a really great summary. I have been following some of the controversy on Facebook.
This guy make a great suggestion, pay a 'patent licence' for the bits that are the same as the patented item...and make it visa versa...SAKA to HAAS, HAAS to SAKA.
Unfortunately what seems to have happened is one company (Weaver) has decided that the patent on the HAAS means no-one else can create similar item and sell it as a 'knee ascender' that incorporates a bungee in a tube...no-one, nobody, no further innovation, it all stops at the HAAS. Sad

I made my own knee ascender anyway...I think it was JD Holloway's example I copied...sshhh
 
My homemade, compact knee ascender has no tubes. I didn't like the bulk of them, when I demo'd a Saka or Haas, whichever it was. What does all that bulk do? Bungees rebound without a guide.
 
Takes about 1/2 hour to make your own.

My partner, Richard, came up with a nice idea for the Akimbo that is our preferred SRT device right now.
Instead of wearing a chest harness, neck band, whatever to hold the device upright while ascending, we simply make the bungee cord on the knee ascender long enough to reach around the back of one's neck and down to clip into the Akimbo.
Eliminates the need for something to hold the Akimbo and gives you a longer bungee cord, which works better.

Should work with whatever SRT device you use, I think.

If this takes off, remember you heard it here first:lol:
 
I thought of putting my own name on it, and then telling everybody it was WAY superior than any other bungee cord out there, because this was made for tree work, not sailing.
 
That's a great idea, Stig. Hanging a small pulley from the climbing helmet's chin strap would increase the elastic response, might feel weird though.
 
This whole bullshit situation can rest squarely on Richard's shoulders, as far as I'm concerned. It was incredibly thoughtless at minimum, that's giving him the benefit of doubt that it was not just financially motivated, to promote an "improved version" in such a short time after the HAAS release and then try to justify it by word-smithing bungee attachment points.

Placing the bungee in between the ascender and the foot in a tube was an incredibly novel idea by Michael. He deserves a bit more reward and respect for bringing that idea to market.
 
You should patent it Stig before Weaver or Sherrill does and stops the world from using it

Here's a post from TreeBuzz forum in which the guy posting talks about a man who had a good idea for a device for tree work that he wanted to keep "open" to the world. So he actually went to all of the trouble to patent the idea just to prevent others from making money off of it. You could use the idea to make one for yourself, but you could not steal the idea, and make them for profit to sell to others. Really interesting to me that a guy would go to all of that trouble without wishing to profit from it himself.

I'm going to try to post a link to the post in question below.


http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threa...saka-from-the-market.37460/page-8#post-554703

Scroll down and read post #142.

Tim
 
Now I wonder if those ideas flourished and were manufactured and delivered into the hands of consumers... or did the ideas just remain just ideas that no one can make and no one can profit from. dead ideas. There is the famous story of the ring and ring cambium savers that were invented by two french climbers who cut an eight in half with hacksaw. Ken Palmer took that idea and pulled a patent on it in the states and had buckingham manufacture them and he defended his patent vigorously and sold ring and rings everywhere. No question it was shitty thing to do to patent an idea that wasn't his, but you could also argue that if he hadn't done that, we would all still be hacking figure eights apart with hacksaws or stripping off the cambium with ropes. But who knows how these things work.
 
The whole thing is bad. Micheal and Mumford have been going at this for years. It’s a shame they couldn’t come to an agreement. I want to see both of them continue to innovate for our industry.
 
Now I wonder if those ideas flourished and were manufactured and delivered into the hands of consumers... or did the ideas just remain just ideas that no one can make and no one can profit from. dead ideas. There is the famous story of the ring and ring cambium savers that were invented by two french climbers who cut an eight in half with hacksaw. Ken Palmer took that idea and pulled a patent on it in the states and had buckingham manufacture them and he defended his patent vigorously and sold ring and rings everywhere. No question it was shitty thing to do to patent an idea that wasn't his, but you could also argue that if he hadn't done that, we would all still be hacking figure eights apart with hacksaws or stripping off the cambium with ropes. But who knows how these things work.

I seem to remember Jomo claimed to have invented the cambium saver
 
I think he invented the leather tube cambium saver
 
Now I wonder if those ideas flourished and were manufactured and delivered into the hands of consumers... or did the ideas just remain just ideas that no one can make and no one can profit from. dead ideas. There is the famous story of the ring and ring cambium savers that were invented by two french climbers who cut an eight in half with hacksaw. Ken Palmer took that idea and pulled a patent on it in the states and had buckingham manufacture them and he defended his patent vigorously and sold ring and rings everywhere. No question it was shitty thing to do to patent an idea that wasn't his, but you could also argue that if he hadn't done that, we would all still be hacking figure eights apart with hacksaws or stripping off the cambium with ropes. But who knows how these things work.

I thought that the reason the guy got the patent was to allow anyone to make their own device for their own use, but not for manufacture and sales to others. That way no one company could lock up the use of a good idea. I guess with more expensive devices, like the blocks with a spring-loaded button release, the construction is something a single individual would not usually try to make for himself. So in that instance it would be better to license the patent for use in someone else's product. In that way many companies could compete to make the best device using that idea, instead of just one company like Petzl locking the idea up, so that only they can make a product that uses the idea. An inventor could just come up with great ideas, patent them, license them in a non-exclusive arrangement, and make money from ten different but similar products made by ten different companies. A company might even invent a device never envisioned by the original patent holder, but that still incorporates his essential idea, possibly creating a whole new category of device.

In the open source software community, they have a kind of license that allows people to use and modify a piece of software for no cost, as long as they give credit to the original inventor of the software. They can even sell their modified version for a profit, still including credit for the original portion of the software to the inventors. What they cannot do is to prevent others from using the original kernel of the software to make a different variation that competes with their own modification. In this way, innovation is encouraged. It makes me wonder if such a similar idea exists within the realm of patent applications. If it did, an inventor would not even need to profit himself, if he had an idea he wanted to give to the world. No one company could exert control over the open source patent, and credit would always go back to the original inventor.

Too wordy, once again; apologies.

Tim
 
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I thought that the reason the guy got the patent was to allow anyone to make their own device for their own use, but not for manufacture and sales to others. That way no one company could lock up the use of a good idea. I guess with more expensive devices, like the blocks with a spring-loaded button release, the construction is something a single individual would not usually try to make for himself. So in that instance it would be better to license the patent for use in someone else's product. In that way many companies could compete to make the best device using that idea, instead of just one company like Petzl locking the idea up, so that only they can make a product that uses the idea. An inventor could just come up with great ideas, patent them, license them in a non-exclusive arrangement, and make money from ten different but similar products made by ten different companies. A company might even invent a device never envisioned by the original patent holder, but that still incorporates his essential idea, possibly creating a whole new category of device.

In the open source software community, they have a kind of license that allows people to use and modify a piece of software for no cost, as long as they give credit to the original inventor of the software. They can even sell their modified version for a profit, still including credit for the original portion of the software to the inventors. What they cannot do is to prevent others from using the original kernel of the software to make a different variation that competes with their own modification. In this way, innovation is encouraged. It makes me wonder if such a similar idea exists within the realm of patent applications. If it did, an inventor would not even need to profit himself, if he had an idea he wanted to give to the world. No one company could exert control over the open source patent, and credit would always go back to the original inventor.

Too wordy, once again; apologies.

Tim

that's what I'm wondering, is anyone making and building their own? or by "giving away" the idea did he actually kill it. I'm not sure what the idea was but I'm interested.
 
I thought that the reason the guy got the patent was to allow anyone to make their own device for their own use, but not for manufacture and sales to others... Tim

Tim, that is true with all patents. Anyone can take a patented idea and use or build it for their own use, it in the selling and making money that patents protect.
 
Ahhh, thanks.


Here's a similar idea- ultra low tech- in small, pitchy pines that you are climbing to top and shape, would be a good app for the leather cambium saver but the tree is so dense you might have trouble pulling it our of the tree later, use a layer or 2 of paper from a brown paper shopping bag and use that in the crotch of your TIP to protect the rope from pitch and the tree from the rope. When you descend, pull out your rope, the paper inconspicuously stays up there and rots away.
 
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