Finding/ training/ retaining good employees...

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  • #4
Maybe Facebook messaging is the way to train people.


Short attention span theater gets old.
 
We went through 6 applicants before we found our present apprentice.
He is ok, but having Martin has kind of spoiled me, I think.
I keep expecting the new guy to pick things up faster than he does.

My best apprentices have been the type who goes to college, then sort of drift for a few years, not knowing what they want to do with themselves. ( Like myself, actually)
Once they decide on this job, they pick stuff up fast.
No short attention span there.
 
Don't expect miracles.
Don't belive that their ambition is to be just like you.
When the jobs finished, everyone goes home, don't make them split wood or other mindless work.
If they keep walking off site/not coming back after a couple of days, maybe they're not the problem, it's you.
 
I was told by a business major college kid that all I do is hire a certified person and all will be good. :S
 
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  • #10
If they keep walking off site/not coming back after a couple of days, maybe they're not the problem, it's you.

I'm a hard boss, Mick. Its true. When things go from would you please do this or that/ Thank you... to would you hurry the frig up and quit doing things the hardest way, its time to split ways.



I expect people to do their work, as (well) trained, unfortunately difficult for a lot of people. Follow protocol, as trained.

Some things the same as preschoolers (get someone's attention before speaking) or McDonald's (I'm pretty sure you do things their way or don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. People's lives are at risk with food borne illness, vats of boiling grease,etc. My friend just got grease burns at her restaurant and could have been way, way, way more injured because an employee decided to use the fryer a tool for things besides frying.)

When you're not sure, ask. If you can't do it safely, DON'T!

The other day, when I was going to stand a 35' limb up over my head using two blocks and the loader, I set the top block, I told him he needed to set the loopie sling and block below. He tried to turn it into a dead-eye sling, rather than tell me he wasn't sure how to set up the loopie sling, which was out of sight from me. Basically, could have killed me if something went wrong. How do you deal with this situation after 6 months of pounding into their heads?

The other guy was a newbie 25 year old who was used to being a conservation crew assistant lead. He couldn't get it into his head that he was not to make decisions. He was not the lead cog in the machine. He couldn't follow basic protocol, but then wanted me to change my backing-up the truck protocol (which works really well) for the way they used to do it on wild-fires, where I think they make parking areas with bulldozers.

I have an analogy, Let me drive. When people want to start making independent decisions that don't follow the charted course, I say that it is like them taking a hold of the wheel and trying to drive while I'm behind the wheel.

This is like an employee that thought he should "drive" one day with the chipper chute. He decided to move it from where I had put it, and it should be have been aimed (hadn't been trained on it adjusting the chipper). He decided not to lock the dischargeback down to keep it from rotating. They loaded a big piece, the chute swiveled, and blasted me in the face shield with a fuckload of chips from less than 4'. What is a good way of dealing with that (7 years ago)?



I wish it was a simple as having brush draggers and rakers, and I could do the rest.

Don't expect miracles.
Don't belive that their ambition is to be just like you.
When the jobs finished, everyone goes home, don't make them split wood or other mindless work.

I expect that as intelligent people, they can learn rules. They aren't supposed to be just like me. They are supposed to be just like a well-trained ground-man/ treeman.

I've definitely had jobs where I had to do things a cog in the machine, not the driver. Working in a high paced, high end restaurant. You do things their way or leave/ told to go.
 
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  • #12
We went through 6 applicants before we found our present apprentice.
He is ok, but having Martin has kind of spoiled me, I think.
I keep expecting the new guy to pick things up faster than he does.

My best apprentices have been the type who goes to college, then sort of drift for a few years, not knowing what they want to do with themselves. ( Like myself, actually)
Once they decide on this job, they pick stuff up fast.
No short attention span there.

This is largely who I hire.

This last guy was older, hard living in the past, logging experience, etc. Used to running AFAP, regardless of if its dangerous. Almost died (a little more would have been a crushed femur) from being crushed between a truck and mini when the rear swung (I put this under the safe work practice of Stay Away From Where You Can Be Crushed, and also Avoid Getting into a Critical Situation for no reason).

The guy who made it a week this summer didn't want to do anything but pull like a bull. Bulls are kinda dumb, and don't notice when they are making three times the work out of a job. He was poorly educated. Used to no helmet or glasses. He did like chaps, because in 6 years of working for the same guy, he still has poor saw handling skills.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Don't expect miracles.
Don't belive that their ambition is to be just like you.
When the jobs finished, everyone goes home, don't make them split wood or other mindless work.
If they keep walking off site/not coming back after a couple of days, maybe they're not the problem, it's you.

3 "Don't"s Mick. How about 3 "Do"s?
 
Do expect mistakes and set backs.
Do understand many don't give a shit and just want to finish and get home, so set a target like, "we'll do this much today then we'll go home"
If there's just the two of you do try and treat the other with a little respect, and if you do bollock him don't keep on like a woman. Ie "you screwed up, I'm not happy, don't do it again, I'll say no more" rather than banging on and on all day.
 
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  • #15
Thanks!


I can find "don't give a shit" in any unemployment line around, along with "can't/ won't follow directions, or do three tasks in a row". Waste of time.
 
My 3 "Do"s:

Pay them well
Train them well
Make them feel they are a valuable part of the company.












#4:
Tear your hair out when they quit because they got into the police academy!
 
You are not the only one in this boat, most tree companies in my area have this very same struggle. A good climber can more or less name his terms in this area.

A fellow I used to work for, actually Mr. Jamin Mayer, was having this problem. Eventually he decided to pay above the local industry standard and he has managed to keep the same crew of 4 for probably over 2 years which is great for this area.

That would be my approach, pay a very high wage and have a very high expectation. Have try outs! Another thing to consider I finding young guys with a family. For most, not all, but most, having kids is a very strong motivator to succeed and having a good role model such as yourself who also has kids is priceless.

Another old boss of mine is up to 12 employees now and they all seem to be staying put and doing well in trees. He has a bit of mystique if you will and is a fun person to be around for the most part. He quite often would take us out to lunch or after work for beers, there were times when it did feel like a family.

Sorry for the rant, obviously I have thought about this a bit. I would say look at your books and figure out what is the absolute highest wage you can offer and start to assemble your team of tree ninjas who are stoked to come to work and will go the extra mile because they like you and they like their job!
 
Well, if you weren't such a hard Bastard Stig they would not quit.

Must be going to the academy so they can legally bust your ass someday!

I hit the freaking employee jackpot when I hired my current helper. I got started by hiring him to cut some dead cottonwood for me. Then I contracted him to haul hay for me.

I guess those two jobs were trial runs. I could see that he was dedicated, had pride in his work and was mindful of machinery.

Sorta like an apprenticeship, I guess.

He goes to town a talks about what we are doing out here with friends and folks as the bar. He is a real gem.

It would be really hard to hire someone on the spot for the work you guys do.
 
While I was writing my novel Stig summed it up well in a few sentences!
 
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  • #21
I like this 3 "Do"s format.


Who has a formal disciplinary/ termination process? How do you decide when you're having someone who doesn't do well enough to keep their job?

Gary, this last employee of 6 months was brought in as a basically a dragger, chipper, with hope that his logging experience was going to be beneficial, which it was somewhat, but not a whole lot. Skill development was slow and not retained very well, unfortunately. He's meth-brain-burned. 13 months clean. Hard working, on time. Short on money a lot, but making improvements. If you don't bring food (or food money) for a whole day, you're obviously not goint to be able to perform. He's going to work through a temp service at a fish cannery, 3 hours (non paid) commute for minimum wage, and no perks. He was getting $16/ hour, lunches, $250 boots, warm socks and thermals, some gas in his rig here and there when he was short.

I just don't have room on my normal crew for a brush-dragger only type position. I need a professional groundman/woman, with the occasional brush dragger on a big job. I often run me with an assistant, using machines, tools, skills over brawn.

Also, living in a city/ rural mix, more rural work, we often get put on ground only type jobs, and pruning- only jobs that don't generate massive amounts of brush, and if we do, the mini moves a lot of that, and I use a grapple truck sometimes to cut down on hand-work. I think I'll move more to a grapple truck, but our tight, steep driveways don't allow that. Also, I move the chipper to the brush and blow into a pile or into the woods, and rarely haul chips. My chip truck has sat for weeks.
 
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  • #22
Thanks, Levi.

Most good climbers around here have their own show, or contract climb, it seems. Too easy to become a one-man show and not do disposal, or get an occasional laborer.

I can find tweeker climbers/ groundies all day long. I can find spur and flipline climbers all day long.

I'd like to pay a groundie $20/ hour, more than double Minimum Wage. I tell people this.

During an interview, I tell them that the more they develop technical skills (On the job, paid training) the less grunt labor they will do, the more they will be worth, the more hours they will get, and the more they will make per hour. Also, they are told (do they hear it, maybe???), that I don't need a brush monkey, I am hiring for an groundman with experience, who will be trained properly. I expect that they won't keep making the same rookie mistakes for months, after being trained how to do it better.




I get into a cycle of being stressed because I have employees that don't follow their training. This doesn't help me or them. I tell them this very upfront. Do what I ask you to do, the way you've been trained, or don't come. Things like PPE, safe rigging practices, safe saw use, safe driving, safe trailer use (a woman lost her face and eyes near Olympia in my time here because a 2x4 came off a truck on the highway and through her windshield).

I'd like a robot. I admit it. Someone who doesn't need to jaw on about shit in their personal life while I'm working, thinking, planning. Do that during lunch time or break. Someone who does what they're asked, without a bunch of convoluting a message from short, literal, and to the point, into 'moving the truck'.

You know the doctor-nurse routine. Call and Respond...Scalpel, please...Scalpel. Not, Scalpel... shovel. No, Scalpel please... should I move the truck?




Yes, Levi, dependents motivate someone.
 
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  • #23
How about the finding/ screening employees part?

I started a thread on TB about arborist-type college programs and training programs. This is try to find good applicant sources, as Stig has found a good pool through the Forestry school.
 
Call and response is priceless. With no response it can drive one to insanity!

You live in a pretty beautiful place, have you tried to "import" workers?

Seems like something I've looked for over the years, low cost of living (correct?) and high pay at work.

I was thinking a few years ago of moving to Eugene, rent is about half price or less as here and the pay is about the same.
 
Sean, we have to give 3 warnings before we can fire someone for bad behaviour.

I've never had to give anybody a warning until last week.

We meet up while it is still dark put on caulk boots, fill gas cans etc while waiting for it to become light enough that we can see the trees we are logging.

The new apprentice started showing up 2-5 minutes late every morning.
Doesn't really matter, but bugs me no end.
So I told him off about it.

2 days later he was 5 minutes too late again.
Richard could tell I was seriously pissed off, so he told me to do something about it, istead of getting pissed off every morning.

So I gave the guy an official first warning, and told him that next time he didn't show up on time, he might as well stay in bed, since it piussed me off enough to ruin the day.

All last week he was there when the rest of the crew arrived, having a cup of coffee in the dark forest.:)
 
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