Welders? Any welders on this site?

My home torch is an old MECO made before Victor bought’em out. Mixes at the head and comfortable as hell. The style Victor I use at work is comfortable too but when they “pop” I just toss’em, waste of money to rebuild. Smith made a good torch but I never used one long enough to get accustomed to it. I’m a freak with my tools. They should be an extension of yourself.
 
I've never had a torch that needed a rebuild because of a backflash that i know of, although about the only times that happens is if you have a bunch of crap plug up a cutting tip, not enough gas flow when welding with a welding tip or rosebud. You just shut off the acetylene and wait a min, then you are good when everything cools off. Bob I'm sure you have a few more years on me running a torch, but I've never noticed that, and I've used brand new stuff enough to notice. Even contractor torches that are completely abused by apprentices and fitters for years have always worked fine once you have a good tip. I do need to rebuild my short barrel torch, but it's gotta be 40 years old or so and the acetylene doesn't quite fully seat. I just pop off the quick disconnect to kill the little flame (something you do after pretty much every cut anyways).
 
What the schools are passing off as apprentices on me these days blows my mind. I really don’t even want them to carry my tools. Book smart but their skills are lacking and I’m trying to be nice about it. My time is short so I don’t much care. I’d rather do my own fitting and let them surf Facebook than touch my torch.
 
Yes and no. We were (and are) very apprentice heavy right now, but they are what you forge them into. If i saw one messing around on a phone i would be breaking my foot off in their ass, and running them ragged after. We have been kinda slow around here for a few years, so some of them sit more than what's ideal so i get that too. We have a very close knit hall tho, the members hold each other to a pretty high standard to nip that shit in the bud before it even starts. The pipe trades are pretty complex, and with attempts to dumb the trade down the less motivated ones can be left behind tho. As you know, the rigging, welding, and layout skills takes years to even become competent let alone even begin to master. I feel it takes most guys about a decade before you can really just hand them a print and walk off and expect them to come in below the time budgeted for the task. Working in different places helps too, gets them used to chemical and power plants. Our hall almost went so far as requiring a weld cert before they would give them a card. On any given day there's close to a dozen guys up at the hall practicing welding if they are laid off during the day, and then apprentice classes at night after work. I gotta go in Monday to renew certs myself, and practice the low hi root (stupid gas company test) to get ready for a weld test that's hopefully coming up.
 
Thx man, but we are required to do all sorts of tests, usually every 6 months at least. Twice a year for the hall (unless you are welding on the job then they waive it), at the start of any job for a new contractor and then every 6 months for each gas company if you are pipelining. Your rigging, osha, brazing, valve rebuilding, etc are all for only a few years, so you have to go renew them too, sometimes requiring class time as well.
 
I gots in lots of trouble for saying something similar to that years ago, Bob. A machine shop I was working at was clambering for “warm bodies” and wanted to look at tech schools. I laughed and said “People coming out of tech schools can’t machine their way out of a wet paper bag!” DAMN! The “geriatric” crew had a meltdown! “I came from a tech school and know what I’m doing, I’ve got underwear older than you!” The whole speel about how I didn’t know what I was talking about, but didn’t take into account THINGS HAVE CHANGED! This was also the same shop that many employees would sabatoge CNC programs, causing scrap or machine crashes, then sit back and laugh after they told you it was a proven program. Great work environment, NOT!
Anyway, thinking more on the rod, what’s Justin going to be welding that’s going to be that precise? I get you guys are pros, he and I aren’t, and aren’t going to be. I’ve done enough welding with 6010 and 6011, because I had to, welding wear edges on Bobcat buckets working for a dealership, and because I had some given to me (I’m a tight ass) that it really just sucks to work with! I’ll take 7013/7014 over 6010 any day, gladly! In my HS welding class we started out with 6013 then a few progressed, and a few progressed beyond that. Hell, I remember having to work my ass off to get an A+ from the teacher just with 6013!
I can teach a monkey to MIG, oxy/acetalyn teaches good form controlling the puddle, but, again IMO, 6013 lets you combine all these skills, learn how to strike an arc, without the electrode burning into the flux like 6010 is terrible about, get a good looking bead and be strong enough for anything he’s going to do.
Again, just personal opinion. I get you guys are pros and expect quality, but remember for most of us, we just need the shit stuck together. Just food for thought, not trying to pee in anyone’s sandbox.
 
“I get you guys are pros and expect quality, but remember for most of us, we just need the shit stuck together. Just food for thought, not trying to pee in anyone’s sandbox.”

Pros are just people that get paid to do what they do as in “profession”. Sorry for the derail, it’s not often the instructor (cough) in me is called upon here.
 
They are Jim, especially once you drive there and if you fail you aren't employed lol. The only solution is to do so many that it becomes another day at work.

Andy, here's my thinking on the 6011 and 10, and remember I'm biased to use them because I'm a pipefitter, who uses these rods all the time, in fact they are about all i use anymore working pipeline. I come from construction, where the only rods you will ever see are xx10, xx11 (tinners only), xx18, and various stainless steel and alloy rods depending on the task. 7018 is used for all structural work because of the low hydrogen properties and engineers thinking they are required (usually not), and most all carbon steel piping outside of pipeline is welded with it. If the root pass isn't welded with tig, 6010 is used for the root, along with general purpose welding like light weight hangers, fixing stuff, etc. 6013 and 7014 are good rods, but are completely absent in industry. 7014 is close to 7018, where 6013 is just slow. 7024 is stupid easy, and can be used on all flat position fab jobs, where robot looking welds can be made faster than mig with virtually no skill level (until you move up dramatically in machine output amperage).

6010 and 11 have 2/3 of their weld beneath the surface, meaning they penetrate very deeply. Despite this, they can easily be used on anything from sheet metal to heavy plate, in all positions. They tolerate longer arc lengths, and will teach how to use arc length to control heat (fill freeze rods require a fairly tight arc). Slag comes off simply by taking a handful of rods and dragging them across the weld (the metal ends obviously), and if that doesn't work it shows where you are trapping slag and what you did wrong, while still being easy to remove for the next pass (no beating the slag because you trapped a bit).Since he will be just starting to learn to weld, with these rods you can literally attempt to weld, grind flat, and repeat and end up with a usable product. They don't mind rust as much as 6013, which would have all sorts of wormholes and porosity going over that. They are faster, and force you to learn proper body positioning so you aren't burned alive by the spatter. They fill gaps, which will be very common on someone's fabrications until they learn the layout and cutting techniques, and will be ideal for doing out of position welds with machines that don't adjust heat as well (such as a buzzbox). They can even be used to sever materials by turning it way up (and even dipping the rods in water to make them burn even hotter), and are ideal for texas tig (unapproved but super handy trick where you use another rod as extra filler metal to fill very large gaps). They are basically the Swiss army knives of welding rods. Once learned, the small circles and weaves for the fill freeze electrodes will be super easy to learn, and the rod contact technique will be child's play for stringer beads and flat production work. You should still mess around with the fill freeze rods (7018 6013, 7014), but by learning the cellulose (10,11) rods first your learning curve is cut shorter while still getting stuff done.
 
FFZero, Jim, are you getting any of my private messages through Tree House?

Tried calling and texting an old number I had for you. Figured out late last night one way I might have screwed that up - had it programmed with a 1 in front of it.

My number , thanks.


(Came on an accident beside the road and Jim was kind enough to give me some info on dealing with EMT's/Firefighters.)
 
Great points, again, I wasn’t trying to be shitty towards anyone, just going off personal experience.
Thank you for a very informative post, Kyle.
 
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  • #163
I like 6010 for repair work, rust paint no matter they just burn thru it all.

I never heard of dipping the 6010 in water to get them to burn hotter. I always find them hot enough and dialing down the amps.
 
:) in the end, it's all the same, just different ways to skin a cat. In the long haul its the hours looking through a dark 2 x 4 window and burns on your arms. Looking back, i wish i would have discovered pancake hoods earlier in my career, and understood holding the rod with the off hand was the pro way to start an arc when i was still in welding school.
 
Lots of good stuff guys.

I found out today that I can't get any metal from my workplace unfortunately. Gonna talk to one other supervisor tomorrow to make double certain. But obviously they have a bin and get paid for their scrap by weight.
 
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  • #169
I am curious as well I've seen a lot of pipeline videos with guys wearing them so whats up with them?
 
To be clear, you would only dip them to use as a crude cutting rod, not welding. Its an old scrapyard technique for hacking stuff down to scrap size, because the rods are cheap, and so is the gasoline to run a machine compared to acetylene, oxygen, and tips in the hands of a normal scrapyard hand. You can use it to punch holes in stuff for quick fabs that are temporary or can be very crude, and is handy for demoing pipe that's full of rust and crap. Some scrapyards get wierd if you try to bring a torch setup to cut stuff, so an engine drive welder and a handful of rods can hack stuff up to get what you need. Also handy when you run out of oxygen on a Saturday and you gotta hack some bolts off or something.

You can also get a carbon air arc setup and do precision work, bevel plate, remove welds, etc. Don't use a generator style with brushes, but a transformer machine does excellent and can handle the short the process requires. You can ruin an inverter or generator doing it tho, so most people i know just use gouging tips on a torch to do the same.

As far as hoods go, I've used everything from a 400 dollar speedglass to a simple "sugar scoop" fibermetal pipeliner. Welding pipe, I've tended to use fixed shades, either Lincoln supervisiblity then the aulektro lenses, which are literally like going from a black and white tv to a 4k. They are about 30 bucks, but they are made from cobalt glass, so everything is a very clear blue. You can't see the smoke because the higher frequency light goes right through it, and you can even see through the slag to the molten metal underneath. You can also choose to run a autodark lens, but an old school hood. So rather than looking like you were the bottom of a robot/ alien orgy, you can wear a hood that uses cheap cover lenses (which you should change quite frequently), is lightweight and comfortable, and designed to hold up against actual heavy work.

Pancake hoods were designed for pipeline work, but once you start using one it's almost impossible to go back. They are super lightweight (which is the reason that most pros will only use a 2x4 lens), and they have a balsa wood goggle that is sanded to your face so it's super comfortable. Because they are goggles basically, they don't let sparks bounce around your eyes, in fact, they block all light except your weld. Outside on the pipeline, dust is blowing around, the sun's bearing down behind you reflecting in your lens, and you have to look up and down and the hood doesn't drift. The lens is held right by your eyes so you see more and can fit in tight places easily, and just goes right where you are looking. It has a lot less torque on your neck because of how light and how close it is, and since you can't nod it down you have to use proper arc starting of you don't have an auto lens in. With stick that means sticking the rod with your hood up at an angle, pulling your hood down, then wiggling it free using both hands. With tig, you rest your cup in the bevel, pull your hood down, then use you filler rod to drag across the bevel and tungsten like a match. This technique also ensures no tungsten inclusions.
 
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  • #171
Thank you I might have to try a pancake hood. Most of my welding is done out in the open and I get a lot of sun glare from behind.

Presume they are a custom deal?
 
Nope, but they come with some sandpaper to mold to your face. Crucial to take your time and get it nice and comfy, i usually do it so it's looking down a bit so it's comfortable when you are working (the eyes naturally look down slightly). There's a few different brands, the original pancake hood, sarges, and Wendy's. I just got a Wendy's and i love it, but they only come with a single ear which is fine pipelining, and it makes it even lighter. The original pancake hood brand makes a double ear, which is awesome if you go opposite hand a bunch. Once you use one and get used to it, you won't go back.

Edit: with a pancake outside in the sun, you usually don't need an auto lens because since the only light is the light that comes in through the lens, you can basically see just like you had dark sunglasses on. And here's a video of a guy using the arc strike technique I've been talking about, so much easier and more precise than the match bullshit they teach in welding schools for some reason. Notice his hand on the rod right by the pipe, then he will slowly move it back to support the other hand. When I'm putting a bead in (root pass) i hold the hood almost like a pool cue to guide it in as i push. That way you have complete control. 7018 heats up too much to do a whole rod like that, but by guiding it with your off hand you gain control when the rod is most likely to stick and be wobbly (3/32 is like a slinky).

https://youtu.be/drQEacGxFi0

He's still learning (we all are), but it shows how to strike an arc properly and save your neck.

Edit 2: here's a guy welding on an olet on a live sour gas line with 7018, who is wayyyyyyyy past the learning phase. He runs a fibermetal pipeliner hood, which is an excellent flip hood. You can cut them down so they don't dig into your neck, pretty much necessary. Anyways, he shows guiding the rod with the off hand very well, and how to drag a fill freeze rod against the metal and then angle the rod to let it simply flow in there perfectly. On multiple pass welds, you can let the rod "draw" the toe of the weld perfectly doing it like this. So this is an easy way to do flat and stringer beads using 6013, 7014, 7018, and the only way to run 7024 (With even more dramatic rod angle).

https://youtu.be/F742Dvr5js8
 
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  • #175
Hey Nick!

I am going to have to try the second guys technique, Thanks!

How about using a magnetic positioner as a prop, any issues with arc blow? I have never seen it done in any video I've seen before.
 
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