• theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    2 Days Ago
    Wow, i must need a brake, thought that was the idea; guess we are done then!
    101 replies | 1437 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    3 Days Ago
    As Burnham says face is messed up to start; to me seems Dutch close stopped fold. >>Face cut to me is removing wedge, that is like removing a chock to roll tire forward, provide easy path >>other factors too, but that is main one to me. . Face close can be hard enough that adding more pull could have invited barber chair (possibly) >>i think of barber chair as wanting to lunge forward but can't from such a Dutch close, and 'over ruling the constitution of the spar' the internal fight causes split decision. . To me on a fair day, plenty of wedge and rope on this, and no hard side lean towards actual fall Very large leveraged resistance against actual fall until last piece cut on far side of fall, taking away leverage against fall Hinge was very narrow to target before that moment, very little hinge leverage /if any at all against target fall with 3xTruck x 15 foot lever + wedges >>like chock not removed from in front of tire, roll forward was impeded . i'm not sure more /higher rope leverage could have bull dogged it out On that thin of a hinge, i'm pretty sure could have pulled easily as is with better face, wedges as a safety stop more depending on rope. . Front and back paths across hinge to target and backfall blocked, remaining tuft of fibers was last hold, functioned as leveraged resistance against falling directly opposite actual fall, just like last tuft of fibers cut was leverage against actual fall >>each of the final fiber tufts on opposing sides where leveraged resistance to their opposite sides,but hinges to their own sides. >>peeled down on final cut to taking resistance away from actual fall, and leaving hinge on actual fall side. >>this final tuff was leverage against falling opposite way, wedges and backcut kept from going opposite target, target was blocked >>could only fall as did>>unless as majority say could have bull dogged thru impedance of face Dutchman Was down to 2 tufts on opposing sides as hinge, should have rolled forward with all those pulls if could. . i simply look for more easy grace from the machinery as signature that is flowing correctly. . How could fold forward NOT be path of least resistance to easy fall otherwise?
    101 replies | 1437 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    1 Week Ago
    theTreeSpyder replied to a thread Rope in Gear Forum
    i think of a solo half circle arc as a frictional slip to other side. But multi /more than 1 half circle totally different mechanic that invokes more of a constriction/clamping drastically increasing frictions and inducing grip also . . i think trying to really see/describe/manage any physical distance or force, MUST look at cosine (column forces) and sine (non-column forces). The column is just a desired straight path between the equal and opposite forces in the scenario, thru connective pathway device of tool chain given. >>then the volume of forces is divided to that cos(cause column line between equal/opposites) or sin(not of the column cos/cause) . These are so pervasive all around you, as to be unseen/undigested/bland but your 'animal eye' that instinctively registers,compares etc. to keep you safe, by cross comparing things etc. can tell when things aren't right, like in a drawing etc. A big game changer in the computing world was proper shadowing. Old cartoons etc.just have a uniform dark image behind the principal as it's shadow. Later years they tried to give a more natural,fading shadow 'gradient' of dark shadow to lighter and lighter for external drop shadows >>and internal beveling/rounding shadows of gradual change. But your animal eye could tell it was fake/mechanical feeling in the static changes of just lighter and lighter bands around principal look/feel fakey to your eye that has been watching everything all your life. NOW most properly, the gradient shadow changes are to a declining cosine etc. type scale. >>NOW game shadows etc. look Natural; in drawing circles it is called 'more organic' it is so real and Natural! Your animal eye can tell because it has been comparing these things from birth, and can tell the fakes! That is just one example of how pervasive cos/sin are in everything we do,see, touch etc. . In multi-leg rope supports 120degrees spread of 60degree deflection each leg is a dividing line. More teepee/more closed pointed lends to extruding support column forces from the rope. But flatter than 120degrees spread extrudes wrench tightening forces from line more than support column. So to get the right service from the rope, should deploy by this math; so it can stand fer ya, not against your target efforts!! . i hope this shows how easy it is to peek into how this works and changes with calculator as tangible evidence. Even if not punching calculator keys, perhaps just view over the rate of changes, and how they can ruin your day, where redline is etc. In the end i also show how same numbers and lessons relate to lean leverage, not to confuse;but rather show the value of learning these ancient 'secrets'. . . A TON of change in a quarter second, from 1 degree of change is VERY HIGH IMPACTING; and can make or break everything and everyone! . In actual usage, application: trunk wraps for support of pulley redirect; should try to extrude/conjure forth the SUPPORT NOT WRENCH forces of line: . . Clean and simple: Nice 'teepee' point on angle much less than 120 spread/60 deflected each support leg >>gives 4 support column legs to carabiner >>maintain 1 wrap as Round Turn on bomb proof anchor for grip/not used as support column to carabiner (specializing each wrap to purpose) >>hide 'seam'/knot on that wrap to buffer Achille's Heel from primary loadings and hits: (knot in front face of this wrap leaves knot weak link in very inspectable position) .
    101 replies | 10711 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    2 Weeks Ago
    A#1:i'm most home at the house;and have no problems here, wish i could do better. . For me this rig was partially born from a short butt tie that would assist main rig in ushering hitchpoint under the support point for gradual low impact release. >>or actually before for cleaner pull away >>transfer to main with less slam into line Then the hinge fiber became my temporary, expendable butt tie to position load hitchpoint almost under support >>The further out hitchpoint gave more reach across, better balance to any weight transferred to rig line >>then saw self tightening aspect of using leverage-able length down to stretch rope on own. Eventually inverting usual problem of not enough tension and impacting on catches etc. >>to too much tension, must depend on predictable relief, always drawn tite so low impact. also turned length to friend for reach and tightening to the tension >>can stash about half of length above hitch point with technique. >>Factors usually fought could now capitalize on! Always a game changer if you can play it either way! . Especially high up can fight lots of elastic length in rope in drop to ground control to tighten/self-tighten.. These were my fave for many other things but also very much so for this more immediate restriction needed to force line tension high with less movement. . Remotely install, remove, tighten the high friction with much less elastic length to take hits but also least amount of prestretch needed to self pre-tighten. . . Top row of pix can give more balanced loading ; i used especially bottom half of pic on many things. 3 half rope circles of friction close to load, least amount of line to high friction. >>Break to only 2 half circles and bend between them holding control side half rope circle locked Tighten by remotely 'sweating'/'swigging'/leveraging line tighter and quickly passing a 'purchase' to the control side and 'making fast'/'hold fast'(secure). >>'old sailor terms of rope handling' >>>>(i like them because shows so much force of intent from those that depended their lives to simpler ropes for millenniums). . The high frictional support(2nd pic row) leaves less tension ed pull on control leg >>Thus support is less loaded >>but then also less dynamic length for shock absorption >> less pretighten needed capitalize on your strong points from the rule set,forge against weak points/leverage-able against you "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon . Rope tight as iron, can be leveraged like iron. The leveraged return is in the tight resistance being bent. >>iron has tight resistance at room temperature, rope needs to be tightened for tight resistance. >>Rope can give leverage and interior structure, forming easily (unloaded) without having to heat to 2000degrees like metal.
    36 replies | 1224 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    3 Weeks Ago
    That is something to watch, rule out, and perhaps why he opens with remote triggering by walking to near point of fail with hinge backcut,and then relieving some line tension to trigger fail. . upper cut to jaw considerations: AT TEAROFF climber low/back from cut especially at tearoff limit line angle back towards climber at tearoff more ballast length (hinge to hitch)gives buffered uppercut movement but more reach towards climber line angle (neutral in next pic) not back towards climber at tearoff . Best is being out of the batters box if any risk to sawyer, like remote bucket while ground control allows enough support loss to allow hinge to not fail nor hold but rather fold! Preloading rope with most load BEFORE TEAROFF is less shock to system from the hand off. Also, different float properties floating most weight on rope pivot rather than hinge pivot while hinge/rope(respectively) power around direction and added support . The reverse mechanics gives different handling, especially the resistance free(r) most loaded pivot... work time.
    36 replies | 1224 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    3 Weeks Ago
    i think Rocky means all limbs can be a huge lever on any rig? Farther out towards CoG would actually reduce leverage ratio against hitch point/support? Risk to me is more across force towards me? i think he means stretch rope further, but to me that is another point why to tie out further? But then this gives more support before tearoff that lets limb drift down further before tearoom, that stretches line for more support to better balance point, but that can get too much .. . Taking the across, sine, hinge pocket pressure angle out of the equation, we still have another bright shiny gem in this not seen in most rigs. A> Pivotal change of main loaded forcePoint to hitch point BEFORE tearoom. Usually hinge is most loaded pivot then tearoom, then slam into rope so that the hitch point is then most loaded pivot. B>This in turn causes flip to 1st class lever before tearoff, with plenty of ballast. . Less shock to line, more balanced, lighter movement from before tearoom and on thru. At the point of pivotal change from hinge as most loaded point, to hitch point being most loaded point BUT STILL ON HINGE >>Machinery goes from rope as auxiliary support that pulls load around to: Hitch point being most loaded (so therefore pivot in my wierld) that hinge is auxiliary support and kinda just 'noses' load around with push sideways >>then again this is a ballasted 1st class lever it is pushing around ever so lightly TOTALLY DIFFERENT ~ GAME CHANGER IN MECHANIX not seen in most rigs: ballast, support line so tight before tearoom hitch point is pivot; especially paired together!
    36 replies | 1224 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    3 Weeks Ago
    i think facing is very important in this orchestration of fiddling with the forces. . The high tension rope angle is pulling back into the hinge like ball socket for partial support, this type support doesn't fight the turn; just like a ball socket wouldn't. The added hinge support is part that resists turn(and a tad to keep ball socket in place is good), but we need less of that hinge support quantity (that resists folding) with partial ball socket pressure support handling part of loadings. . The trick won't work safely in my mind as a pure horizontal spin; so i would always give slight downward relief path to rig with face and then rope to keep it 'happy' and simply dance lightly with these forces,don't overload with forces we flirt with, were this can turn on you in a vicious way.. Noting if rope gives nice downward slide path and hinge is pure sideways, forces bind against each other, we want them harmonious to same path not binding that would add extra forces only to fight it self, make it stay gracefull and unconflicted!. Make the handling only as high force as need be, we are walking the redline as it is. Then simply slack rope some and let the load find the easy path of force relief in the face to one slightly downward side. Like a light marble on a slightly slanted table, let it find it's own predictable way. This is where sometimes i'd like the rope coming over load to left side of load and curling under to hitch back toward load center mast to serve load right(rope bent around load in V pointing left to serve right in rolling fashion as the V with 2 rope pulls on it eases out to flat as it 'dumps its load' that then gives turn). To incite more positive and rolling turn from the hitch point on load pulling left as rope bend V on load pulls to target right arching load right to roll into face. Rope slackening as this goes so load drifting downward angle on hinge and face accommodating, not fighting this drift angle as noted before, keep it light. . The high rope tension upwards + load hitched near CoG make the load handle more lightly and in contrast simple butt ties give longer load below hitchpoint, so mid hitchpoint on load (of this style)offers more clearance under hitch point than butt tie. Offering some relief of tension/steam in line allows load to 'breathe'/move and it wanders away from all the high tension, as gravity pressing down finds 1 side of downward path blocked; But at same time finds open, easy path of face to other side. You watch it and can see it seek the path of least resistance and simply glides to it like water seeking it's own level. . Please see that the limb as load only weighs so much is finite in length and weight as all else. As we have it moving sideways(on own at some point) with some of its finite weight force, there is then logically less of that weight force left to press downwards on the rope i think. . Making the long, rigid and heavy handle lightly and predictably with a single thin line, gotta love it!!! Almost aerial ballet! . Once again very nice Murph! . For me this exemplifies the 'mantra' : "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon edit: When we strip things down to there minimal, required, pivotal concepts; might find comments internally of yeah i do that some, or common sense etc. But, if can show any quality as truly pivotal in our wanderings, should recognize it in all rigs as a potential quantity. Example : support rope angle on load. . Whether rope angle is pulling into, out of or even neutral to hinge 'pocket'; it is a quality that should be recognized even if the quantity is Zer0 (on the dial of potential range) of that quality. We should keep the placeholder mentally for next time or even if it might CHANGE this time, keep track of this support rope angle quality dial!!! . Also, when we know from before the very start the forces trying to invoke; can start building and aligning to that target in even the smallest parts of the build purposefully for efficiency of own actions and forces employed! This can even look the same, as the old man seems to make same motions as another, just grooming/primping more here and there, but then magically extrudes better result over and over cleanly! .
    36 replies | 1224 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    4 Weeks Ago
    i certainly would if i could! And really always try to lend correctly, perhaps too completely in all that i do. Thus there is much over time i haven't posted, or worked weeks, sometimes shelved for months to come back fresh working on pix etc. before posting. Mostly this is over word choice etc., tho sometimes it is over drawing correctly; for teaching myself drawing, coloring, shading etc. to perspective is constant, fascinating journey of it's own! Sometimes it seems as i try to see all around the subject at hand(i actually visualize all facets/sides of a gem to view secrets of it's center) and thru something; i then lose the original / commons perspective(?), assuming that for me was even inline with the masses! . Not really wanting to derail these important concepts of this thread more, but still answer! (i think all the concepts here should be viewed in all rigs as potentials. Perhaps the selector dial is presently set to Zer0 for how much of the concept forces potential is realized in the particular rig and movement; but still constant companions in the overview). . The hinge pocket ball/joint concept i tried to sift out and show here is from the low angle line pulling load back into 'hinge pocket' for partial support. Noting in theory if enough pressure into this 'pocket' wouldn't need hinge for support(thus have support like hinge BUT not folding resistance of hinge !), just guy line pressure into this 'ball socket joint' like some sign on a building with angled guy wire for support! Most support shown in virtually all other examples is on the gravity column angle (cosine), this low angle across pulling into hinge 'pocket' angle capitalizes on across gravity force line perspective so capitalizes on sine(in physical size, speed, force etc. geometry is inescapable i believe). Relieving some high tension from rope/ letting some steam escape form rope support, allows load to breathe/move and that light marble (cuz rope still has most of load) then rolls lightly into the hole simply following path of least resistance into face. . The near balance hitch point allows section between hinge and hitch to be partial ballast to heavier head floating horizontal. Then hinge just manages the lighter left over load (as far as keeping head horizontal after ballast neutralized some of this concern) until tear-off, then favor head heavy for positive falling, not flipping action. But everything moves light and smooth even tho huge and heavy, simply because of the self ballasting to buffer, and the slow relief of support i think. Those pix are about 20 years old -at least! Work time!
    36 replies | 1224 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    4 Weeks Ago
    i tried to show this also with an added torqued turn to incite more immediate. and positive sideways spin; an even less accepted practice at the time. Got home and found these old pictures; i think this started on the ISA site and bled over to TB later on after it came up; after ISA shut down and TB and AS were still in first years of infancy. The tighter rope and angle pulling back into 'hinge pocket' (rather than neutral overhead or pulling actively away from hinge) are all for greater 'hang time' on hinge as a support AND pivot. This simply tries to show to get away from butt tying to get more automatic line tightening by how much further you put line out from hinge point after super tighten rig and more is needed, let load finalize it itself.. . . This shows the added line tension can be pulling away from hinge, neutral or pulling into the 'hinge pocket' imagining then a more ball and socket joint. Also can be throwlined thru crotch and brought to climber that then does easier butt tie but the pull is coming from the crotch. i also think that the extra line of force by the rope adds some extra stability and positiveness to the motion, but then make same assertion in over the top felling pulls. i used to say CoB Center of Balance (gymnastics) but was repeatedly told CoG Center of Gravity was most correct so adapted it later for the same point. . . This shows one version of taking the line tension giving support to hinge by pressing into pocket with line tension and forcing/inciting more immediate turning to side: . Of which i made fancier pix but can't find in my mess! Great memories of sorting this all out! Very nice sideways spins away from anti-targets! i actually got hurt bad doing this, had guy the more i yelled to relieve tension, the harder he held line; and it came around and almost took me out of tree, dislocated elbow, but so mean,cheap and stupid didn't let go of 020, had to peel it from my own death grip and hag it,then turn bottom of shirt to sling cradle arm , re-tie in with other arm to descend while ants on ground where still clamoring for a ladder that wouldn't reach anyway.... Murph's remote overload to trigger is safer; climber is not in batter's box. i had done this 100's of times previously, but totally dependent on ground control..
    36 replies | 1224 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    4 Weeks Ago
    Nice horizontal spins/ slides away from anti-targets! . I look at the line angle as pulling back into the hinge 'pocket', whereby is not neutral line angle and if was pulling away from hinge would look for earlier separation , so in contrast view pressures into hinge would increase hang time on hinge beyond hinge strength. . The nearer to CoG hitch point point also gives leveraged tightening length so limb pulls own support line tighter and places more pressure back into hinge pocket as ball socket rotating joint. The longer length from hinge to hitch points on load the more rope tightening at given angle but then more support to take that further. . This is self tightening after climber and ground crew pull and sweat as much line 'purchase' as possible out of system. Think like can always relieve steam from line pressure, need to build enough to equal float in the load. Then walk hinge to almost failure into face and relieve some line purchase/ force/steam and allow load to trigger hinge to fold. Sometimes in planning or if hinge not folding pull line over farther end on load, but not too flexible for leveraged pull on load to incite hinge folding. . With enough hinge pressure and not enough relief can fold back on you if still in batter's box cutting, so remote trigger is best.
    36 replies | 1224 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    10-14-2018
    Once again each man is his own savant! (perhaps most would not have a job if that wasn't true?) >>for me, maybe just a ol'gymnastics thing , but i can feel if i was standing like that tree, that the pressures are wrong for the next 'trick'/roll/throw. >>man doing his own work and getting in a 'pinch' is one thing >>man raising hand for hire, would seem to have stepped up to the plate before(especially with old saw and no rental stickers) and will continue to do so, and i'm sorry should know better, be 'handier' in my book if for hire/less forgivable and more perpetuating. >>i just see several leveraged tons of force into a 'nut cracker' pinching saw. To me it seems they must have dogged that little climbing saw out, bull dogging it thru all the trees (there were more from mistletoe, pix blurry etc.) and let lay when saw got stuck! . We didn't really use the salt anyway, was kidding about that part. .
    52 replies | 5577 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    10-13-2018
    After surviving another 'rush' hour trip on I4(rated most dangerous US hiway for about a decade now); i swear i wasn't going to capture/post these lawnmen trees(this is hard work, they got'em down, not huge undertakings etc.), until i came around the corner further and saw this surprise overnight guest: . i think we would have boiled a man raw to make skin easier to pull off; before salting the man down and trolling still kicking behind boat for gator bait if they left saw there or perhaps even got into this position. Kinda like hey if i should be able take a joke, so should you kinda camaraderie... . i was talking about it when i clocked in, and a guy wanted to go take powerhead if i admitted had scwrench. i told the fool that i did what i urged our boys to l-earn: a sense of other's things being like other's dirty sweat socks; i'd favor only picking up my own or collecting for own family kinda instinct, and if had to mess with someome else's would be to give them back to them, not carry them around. Seems he already thought i was weird; and this convinced him.... . Further lessons in how not to pro-ceed in land of the giants: . Fucntional points remain consistent even in these smaller examples: Well machined faces across full breadth of stump gives less loading, more flexible hinge; simply as a martial arts wider stance is more stable. But still must be in consideration of the initiating force of the Center of Gravity point that dictates lean. . In the weightless tree model, there are no forces; until add CoG forcePoint. >>THEN leveraged force thus compression pivot and tension ballast forcePoints form, that saw cuts alter to carry forces differently. Getting 'too happy' with saw can remove key leverage points. . If not enough bar length: get bigger bar or cut to almost 2x bar length(cutting from either side); if need more bar length get it or center punch face to maintain wider apart hinging points on thinner hinge type profile especially being sole simple machine of support and steering of the leveraged mass of tree , knowing you are scaling up to setting into motion as a further force multiplier of risk and responsibility!!
    52 replies | 5577 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    10-07-2018
    Thought i'd take time to explain more comments from last week . i don't say much about backleaners cuz to me is just pull from rear position into high noon over stump and let splash down on target side >>just follow prescription of front leaner after brought into place >>except can't really force hinge same strength and hinge probably has to be thinner for more flexing, and more open face to allow movement. Backleaners are a fair test of theories, and nerve tho! . edit:sorry not exporting correctly to web publish side so segmenting pic: C (in pic)>Now supporting hinge is in more normal forward lean state of CoG "lunar cycle". Without sideForces this all happens on the same axis of least resistance across the narrowest path of supporting hinge. This would be a 2D(imensional) fall scenario >> 2D scenario classification includes direct backlean Per pivot of compressed part of hinge as pivot, and downward gravity force column to pivot as 1D: >>1D(imensional) telephone pole model is not a fall, until other acting force gives imbalance >>2D is simple fall forward w/o sideLean but includes 'simple backlean' w/o side forces >>3D scenario finally invokes side forces into the mix >>>>tapered hinge is control side ballast against side force to neutralize 3D to 2D scenario >>>>step Dutchman is a 'late life' correction diverting force flow 3D over run to 2D scenario >>0D is CoG alone, will fall to Earth like a negative ground calling a positive charge (in my imagery) >>0D is NOT pivot, for pivot is position is defined as closest /most efficient support of CoG ***CoG is the only active,persisting force as force input to passive/RESPONDING tree architecture*** ***Pivot, compressions, tensions etc. are all passively responding forces AND positions*** 1D is not a fall,cuz is in balance. Only imbalance 'wanders' seeking equall/opposite that balance already has >>world is in balance cuz item out of balance moves to balanced,motion itself making up the temp. imbalance . . . . . Something i've referenced before,but not pushed out too strong is this theory; it seemed to serve me well as i grew more confidence with it; but didn't get enough trials, especially in backleans to fully recommend w/o reservation i only tried in good woods, and it seemed more suited to felling trials than 'in-tree' cuts/rigging. . . Going for easier start, forcing thicker hinge, then more bolstered support as things commence. Sine is the mathematical leverage of lean Sine changes MOST drastically, for highest IMPACTING changes in first 15degrees benchmark to either side of pure vertical (and really on into 30 degrees) With the full leveraged length and loading of a tree any change can be IMMENSELY good or bad per it's disposition! Shallow and rear leaners can be very tricky for this reason; and any cards played into hinge, lean etc. can be critical!
    14 replies | 497 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    09-24-2018
    i think, bring hinge back as far as possible to widest part of wood >>for thinnest flexible hinge at given strength >>also for best side to side control. . i like overwhelming leveraged rope pull high up over top of tree and back down to base >>look at tree as lever dragging CoG uphill to peak height at inline over stump, then splashing down on other /downhill side. >>on smash down side might consider step dutchman on push off side >> thinner hinge needed to flex longer distance harder to extrude tapered hinge shape to control offside pull of sideLean. . Would center punch face if not for the drier heartwood not as flexible theory >>then exactly and precisely to re-schedule the removed fibers to widest part of hinge to control sideLean >><perhaps being able to pull tapered shape out of it . i always pull in line to path of lay, not against sideLean. . work time..
    14 replies | 497 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    09-15-2018
    YES, especially if using as anchor, then i also favour turning front wheels so arcs away from pull /tighter if moves, rather than neutral or towards pull /looser. Can cut own chox from hardy stumps, eye bolt end with 6' rope so can drop and kick under tire, leave rope over bedside for no bending retrieval also! >>of course can make to order onsite, would always chock if using truck as anchor. . . When Brion Toss speaks of losing a capstan/winch handle; he means like 400+ years ago a few salt soaked men alone on ocean without electricity, nor gas, food running out, already buried someone at sea , trusting the winds and waves, needing high tension adjustment of rope tensions to sails and capstan/wench handle breaks or gets washed over board in storm so this is how you save your azz and bro's type of losing winch handle shituation lost and starving on ocean desert;ain't no search party coming for these guys..... . Sweat/swig also good for quick tightening any rig by section by climber between holds and friction points and into Porty by ground control. If stuck and pulling tree and can't pull harder, mite try anchoring line and jumping on rope HARD, FAST across rope column for massive force pulse thru tight line. >>this of curse leads towards 1 man operation, but should really not swim or work/specifically climb alone. . In many shituations cross-axis leveraging of line is risky foe you face, this is the turn around where can trick foe force can become life saving friend,is powerful either way! . NOTE SPECIFICALLY FIRST HALF OF INCREASE DEFLECTION TO 45 DEGREES COS DROPS 29% ALMOST SAME AS DROP IN LAST 15 DEGREES, LOTS MORE AMPLITUDE OF CHANGE IN COS COLUMN CALC CLOSER AND CLOSER TO FLAT !! . Sorry if redundantly repeated again,but trying always say better for your viewing pleasure! . Note again the clean, sweet, simplicity of this mountain/rescue build with pristine legs and long,sharp beak/teepee serving out proper support column. Weakness of seam buried away from the hits, also left in an inspectable 'pocket' position on load side. Same gear deployed better for a target of support column against pull: This doesn't wrench grip as tight on tree as previous/ClockHitch type pulls, uses architechture for support column column against pulls as chosen alternative instead. So we allow 'seam' to seat to tree keeping it buffered from primary loading hits for strength and easier untying, is inspectable AND gives some grip back around tree for security!
    34 replies | 913 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    09-12-2018
    Some of these are real but usually against companies. . Over time, some employees and other repentants have given inside glimpse on some wordings. Story goes that they purposefully don't redo ads, emails etc. so don't catch anyone slick enough to see thru it, so don't have to deal with them!
    20 replies | 608 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    09-05-2018
    theTreeSpyder replied to a thread Rope in Gear Forum
    Totally agree, but must be well minded. I think the next 90degrees bending line past 360 insures that 360 remains fairly applied, but 90degrees more locks the first 90 keeper of the 360. knudeNoggin's theory was right about 360, I trusted him and kept looking harder; this is my best explanation of root force to keep aligned. 360 is the workhorse but still recommend typical last 180 as generally seen. . Thus 3 half circles as commonly seen , but the real work done by first 2 half circles facing each other, as bulls in a pen distracted by each other, not charging fence as outward force. 2 half circles mirror each other , hand hold keeps it fair/ keeps forces aligned and engaged with each other another half circle pretty certainly so. . Equal & Opposite Reaction from Load in mono Turn on low friction arc exits arc to Control leg. Equal & Opposite Reaction from Load in multi Turn on low friction arc >> more consumed by themselves, less force exits , Control leg more a keeper/controller than direct hold of load around mono U turn on Porty. Porty exemplifies effect with short friction path of low friction; more of a clamp with 2 half circles, just friction path if 1 half circle verifies in low friction example I think. If all rigs and knots are straights and half circles, I hope this more defines forces of the more complex half circles of all rigs and knots. . Mono vs. Multi game changer seen in 1 bolt thru 2 boards is hinge pivot , but more than 1 bolt locks boards from hinging. >> On upward pull of Porty lengthwise 'Single Bearing' of Timber Hitch (or eye2eye sling)can be seen as such a hinge more inviting pull sling get started creeping upward , but fix with more 'Double Bearing' of Cow Hitch (or round sling)can give 2nd pin effect and hold MUCH better at this errant lengthwise pull up rather than across trunk. . Mostly in any; 2 competitors playing off each other is enough, but I maintain mono vs. multi definition, more turns, bolts, nails, choke rings etc. are distinctly separate mechanic than mono of any. 2nd half circle simply same.
    101 replies | 10711 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    09-05-2018
    theTreeSpyder replied to a thread Rope in Gear Forum
    camelCase or studlyCaps capitalizes first letter of each work except first word, so hump in middle, kinda a programming eye sorting thing for shows relationships. . columnSine is just cosine with my personal mnemonic that this means percentage of remaining column that is 100% at zer0 deflection etc. >>column of remaining original tension or length is rope tension or slanted board length, columnSine/cosine of the angle gives how much of that still left on original 100% column of reach or force Writing this more for a knot site; but kinda tree guy's view into rope forces many nonTree folk might miss seeing. . Working rope in tree work is hard work of rope and wood just like aboard ships were most working knots were born and/or proven. The secrets usually hidden inside the microcosm of a knot, can be larger and more viewable in a rope rig in such works. >>Same load forces in same rope materials, on same planet etc. just bigger and more open to view! When ABoK was written these examples might be in 3-4" rough manilla; Ashley notes rope starts at 1" cordage, any less is 'small stuff' . Much discussion in knot circles about how many degrees of Turns defines a Round Turn(yeah we are a wild and crazy group, nothing boring here!) >>knotNoggin (probably best rope mind i've found on arbo or rope sites) told me years ago could be 360 degrees, i think he is right, but takes 360 plus another 180 to enforce the 360 >>360 as working physics, then 180 to keep the physics in place. . All forces need an Equal & Opposite(E&O) mating force; and travels outward until can find E&O to be neutralized/satiated by. >>i think Round Turn provides this E&O more in the system; where simple, single Turn does not and so force reaches out of rope system. Ropes/Rigs/Knots have straight parts and curved parts i think are based on half circle as basic non-straight rope part >>this half circle compounds together both straight legs of force feeding half circle, to make half circle a greater force, needing another anchor/support point i think 360degrees of Round Turn is 2 competing half circles inside rope system, so less force flow out of rope system to final anchor/support. . i imagine 1st half circle as a raging bull; offer own mirror to bull and they lock horns and fight each other as E&O's inside rope system, with LOTS less escaping force to seek rest of E&O to satiate. The last 180 to me is to enforce that the bulls horns stay locked together in this imagery. . . i think these forces work the same hidden away in knots a Radian Pi in geometry is a half circle, thus i tend to call the half circle as a 'Rope Radian' as own personal best descriptor. i think this defines rigging and knotting; straight parts not much intro needed, and curved parts based on half circles of these definitions! 1 half circle is a frictionalized slip, 2 are competing arcs making more of a frictionalized clamp, totally different game.
    101 replies | 10711 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    08-26-2018
    theTreeSpyder replied to a thread Rope in Gear Forum
    Burnham has always been one of my favorite posters, Sorry i'm so thick; i've always had problems expressing stuff way back in school especially math problems, geometry proofs etc. Let alone stuff i spent years alone in head re-condensing etc. Perhaps father time has made that worse too ti seems.. . i seem to associate/ look for associations, cross comparative analogies like looking at same gem at different angles to reveal all facets. >>also everything has to play and cross-verify backwards; many solutions found in this reverse engineering. That is how i prove to my self and remember stuff. Some words have to borrow from other arts where i find none or to show such a comparative association. Very few (columnSine) do i make up (and might borrow 'camel case' from programming to do so). . Always thought drawings would span the gap, show pix in head etc. >>but even constant journey of drawing vectors better has been a fascinating journey, that constantly lends at least to me more insights into the things we witness but seem sometimes elusive to name, see how many places exists, segregate then to carry forward/command/conjure same principles in other forms against other problems. . i simply try to share, sorry my long time handicap gets in way. Don't have to try to be different, really don't try to confuse nor batter. Always ready to answer specific questions or even curve to another view if it fits, have learned much here and added to book in head. Thank-you!
    101 replies | 10711 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    08-23-2018
    YES, very possible! . Master Splicer Brion Toss Best 3 strand splice info/imagery: People generally try to maintain the unraveled strands in round state as most pristine. But rather should ribbon flat the 3 strands for greater surface area of friction as it weaves back thru Standing Part >>this also disturbs the Standing Part least, that is what you are trying to leave pristine The flat strands give greater frictions for security and disturb rope column least for most strength retention. >>these words long ago for strongest 'knot'/permanent splice really helped me form my model imagery/re-confirm how completely the same principles remain consistent!. . Favour healthy 'butane backsplice' on ends that stick out at splice finish; ball end impossible to pull back thru. Still would favour long eye to leave splice as seam out of the hit. . Favour Round Turn around Standing Part of any Timber, Cow or choke sling etc. (knots that bend own Standing Part as pull load leg to center as opposed to Clove or Round Turn based that feed most from side.)
    27 replies | 880 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    08-23-2018
    WOW Man, i gotta tell ya...... . Certainly, certainly; A simple wrap 3 pull 2 used in worst life rescue conditions, to bring rescuers and victims lives home safe should give generous 2xTensile to your 3strand if has nice teepee/beak point >>out of the 4 legs of line to pulley, no exposed 'seams'/knots or splices to primary loadings >>at max spread of 60 degrees apart >>should serve WAY OVER 2x rope strength to pulley support . . In the span between spread lines on front/pulley side of anchor support is best place for seams, as most buffered from loadings and visually inspectable. The benchmark line tensile strength is outer limit, can't beat that, only add legs to it 4 exposed, pristine legs spread not too far apart is pretty strong. Vulcan salute is 30 degrees spread check, take that as new meaning to "live long and prosper"; as a safety check to support angle spread at pulley! >>forefinger and baby finger spread is 60 degree check >>shaka thumb to baby finger hard spread is 120 spread, 60 deflection from PURE INLINE centerline >>cosine is .5 which all else being optimal is 4 legs x .5 cosine = 2xTensile >>if had 10ft 2x4 and leaned it against house at 60 degrees, would hit house at 5ft. up >>10ft is potential x .5 = 5ft. at 60 degrees there is only 50% potential of line pull or board length(rise) >>ALL THE SAME sine of 60 would give percentage of distance from house of same 10ft potential length or potential of line tension >>ALL THE SAME cosine is simply percentage of remaining original/potential column at given angle >>whether measuring length or force, it is simply the same percentage of the potential/all lengths and forces are finite .
    27 replies | 880 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    08-23-2018
    Knot/seam should be buried thru wraps from hit of impacts and loading. >>So, any knot that holds should be okay, and easy to untie since not getting jammed with forces. >>this would be true of knot 'seam' for holding hitch to tree/anchor and for making eyes as well, keep seams from primary loading zones. >>work to not expose/risk seams to primary/full forces So bury seam from forces, and focus on grooming parts taking hit . Clock is WRONG, not just a little bit; REAL WRONG "They should call it the Clockwork Orange Hitch.. it's criminal to use that thing." -JeffGu/TB . Same principle elements, slightly stronger flavour/strength fave type setup amongst mountain/rescue: . In your pic and Clock: pulley pulls across rope column(s) >>want teepee to pull out from trunk, the farther the better for sharper point showing straighter pulley pull down rope column/length properly. . i threw math not to confuse but to show what is proper/why >>then also how 'out of line' clock and your pic are with how those numbers work AND they go across ALL examples, there is no escape, only blind bumping into if can't see... . The wrap 2 pull 1 pic isn't that much different than yours or Clock >>some turns and a protected seam from the direct hit NOTE: biggest strength is at rope parts taking hit, flat to tree is wrong for this, real difference is the 'point' that serves out to pulley in wrap 2 pull 1 Big Difference is how most loaded , immediate loading of pulley pulls on the support legs directly to it >>In Clock and your pic, this pull is PERPENDICULAR to the rope parts directly supporting against pulley This leverages/wrenches against line strength >>can you hold 20# inline at side or perpendicular straight out from chest longer???? >>which way is your own feels like architecture stronger? >>if can get to where use such an imagery, and can look at rope and see that would be pull on arm, i say knowledge becomes more intuitive body sense; which also can give most immediate correct action in emergency... Relax perpendicular pulls to birds beak / teepee point, that immediate pulls can go down more than across these strands/columns >>would IMMEDIATELY make your pic and Clock better, then maintain buried seam away from hit/loadings >>the flatter the teepee, the weaker the rope is, the Clock and your pic is FLAT >>can't get any worse ('cept maybe if pulling tight to flat beam rather than round spar) !! >>longer and longer sharp point teepee is closer and closer to being a most proper eye Flat vs. Eye are the 2 benchmark range extremes, that all the rest are between >>Clock and your pic are at the wrong extreme end of that range pulling perpendicular across supports rather than INLINE Strength being chased hear is 100% geometry, once have seam as weak link buffered from hits . We say making doubled rope/eye gives about double strength in ruff math >>but there are numbers out there that assume some loss and quote at at like 165%(KnudeKnoggin big advocate i believe, perhaps the SMARTEST rope/knot mind i've ever come across; that i have learned the most from) instead or 200% rope tensile >>Much worse if rope is stiff and resists in any way eye bend If making own eye sling for like Cow or Timber, would make long eye so only eye takes hit and the knot seam making eye is buried on tree so seam doesn't take primary hit. Personally i'd use Double Bowline w/Yosemite tie Off (affectionately known as DBY) on the long eye, making sure knot doesn't take hit, it is on the tree, maybe even rope strands crossing OVER eye too before seam/DBY receives hits. . Extending that buffering loading to seam topic further AND ALSO add strength to Timber or Cow i prefer Round Turn around Standing Part/eye to pulley rather than simple Turn before commencing with rest of Cow or Timber. . edit: in the word 'architecture' arch means not flat bridge etc. construction but rather they found arc to keystones to route force around flat construction(but still give flat service on top side to bridge etc.) >> cosine of inline is 1, i read as 100% strength, less inline is lower cosine /less preserved strength percentage. >>all the way down to flat is Zer0 cosine. 0-1 range multiplier of rated strength to find actual is all cosine is, from PURE INLINE(1) TO flat (0) once again; Clock and your pic are on the low end of the preserved line tensile scale, hardly any cosine left. This rope example is just a microcosm of the same rules of how ALL this works!
    27 replies | 880 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    08-22-2018
    Kinda been playing with drawing of for Clock Hitch thread over yonder, why that pull is wrong, and this is similar pull geometry. i think can do similar to what is shown tho.. . A>w/o sling B> NOT pull across tree wraps, but rather allow rope to make sharp teepee or beak service to pulley >>Leave knot as splice on front of trunk so no direct hits and easy spot checking! . Some version of the mountain / rescue wrap 2, pull 1 (has different names/counts)with sharp teepee/beak so pull goes down length of line and not across line of support. >>can do wrap 6 pull 5 whatever >>Want pull to be down column of line properly as much as possible . . hit to pulley is max 2xLoad if straight legs, less if legs spread apart in/out of pulley. Support to pulley is exact same math. At 0degrees spread load/support is 2x line tension At 60 degrees spread, each leg is deflected 30 degrees from PURE INLINE therefore for 1000# tension on 2 legs 30degrees ea. would be 2 x 866 (2 x 1000 x .866 cosine of 30 =1732) of load pull on pulley or support to pulley from other side of equation is all the same If pulling with 2-1 pulley spread 60 with 1000# pull would get 1732, not 2000, just the same 30 very acceptable support spread as the cosine of 15(each leg deflected 15 from center= 30) is .965 almost full force PURE INLINE cosine of 1 multiplier all rest of cosines are less than 1 , i use as a multiplier% of line tension Thus i call cosine columnSine or working to my cos(cause) as menomic >>forces down the roman column of line or beam . Great columns held the temple roof strong inline down their length, >>Samson defeated with equal/opposite force across length of columns like pic shows being done to (your pictured) wraps on tree,wrenching close to Zer0 cosine . I think virtually all knot strength is in legs of support >>and the geometry of those legs >>expect same in rigid supports of wood or metal >>rope is just another support device>>only immediately malleable unloaded (also can make rolling lever)
    27 replies | 880 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    08-18-2018
    theTreeSpyder replied to a thread Vikings! in MBTV
    I think shows interesting root social psychology elements: Entitled Royalty, Bikers, Cat Fights, Greed, Women's Lip Movement etc.
    30 replies | 744 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    08-18-2018
    theTreeSpyder replied to a thread Rope in Gear Forum
    i'm sorry but i reached for intuitive, visceral understandings and now seem cursed so. The process to excavate what i've pounded layers into own core so densely for decades w/o talking so outwardly about it ; can be exhausting; even physically so as head weighs heavy; to then setup towards a few weeks to illustrate, then perhaps to make sure will align across the board and then be forward compatible/consistent naming, colors, positions etc. with half done Surgeon Lock principles_2,3,4 etc. before posting Surgeon Lock principles_1 etc. while constantly teaching self drawing in vectors and gradient shades, to re-usable modules to not take so long the next time. . If i had the means to translate further, and maintain the continuity across topics; i most certainly would . Many things i have named, i can't find precedent for; or at least one that would be contiguous across topics, >>might borrow radian from geometry etc. because that is closest concept to my imagery etc. . i feel very lucky to have worked with huge trees and rope >>very lucky to see Natural forces that rule thru all things, at such magnified levels as to see close-up, like thru microscope i feel almost like i've been allowed to see these things, digest them at least to this level >> then honor bound not to be greedy with what was gifted to me; >>to be at least as wise as a simple coral polyp and add it to the build for all! . All-in-All; i'm just too close to see any further out; perhaps others can translate, or start to, or question specifics if interested etc. All-in-All; i make no excuse, i've done what i can; just simply don't have the tools to take further as my own failing.
    101 replies | 10711 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    08-14-2018
    theTreeSpyder replied to a thread Rope in Gear Forum
    My version of some knot principles ; and how they apply to this hybrid.
    101 replies | 10711 view(s)
  • theTreeSpyder's Avatar
    08-14-2018
    theTreeSpyder replied to a thread Vikings! in MBTV
    Vikings is pretty strong ride! Enjoy!
    30 replies | 744 view(s)
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