Smart growth help

emr

Cheesehead Treehouser
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
2,193
Location
Neenah, Wisconsin
We started our business in 2009 and have consistently grown year after year but we have reached a point where we can't get any more work done without working weekends. One of the big reasons for starting our business was to preserve family time for myself and my partner. We both have young kids and we don't want to miss out on their childhoods. We have updated all of our equipment and trucks and have everything paid off except for our trucks. The company is still just me and my partner. We kicked around the idea of hiring an intern this past summer but decided against it because of the high cost of workers comp insurance. We also kicked around the idea of starting a company retirement plan but both of our wives are maxing out their retirement plans and both have started additional accounts to make up for us not having them with the company.

So, I'm looking to get any input on how others have grown their companies. We can still add some equipment like a loader, maybe revisit the hiring idea, raise our rates, add services, any ideas would be appreciated.

Edit: I should have mentioned above that as a result of our growth and frugal spending, we have had a pretty good two years as far as having extra cash in hand. Our accountant and banker both think that we're crazy for carrying that much cash but we like having it as a safety blanket. This cash is another thing that we're thinking about...... Is there a better way to use it than just keeping it on hand for a rainy day?

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A third person can come in real handy. WC is expensive but for the right guy it's a no brainer. That is the trouble. Finding an employee that is reliable and worth paying good money on. A small loader is also another great investment. Way cheaper than an employee and seldom calls off sick with minimal whining. As for the cash, PM me and I will gladly take that off your hands.
 
Sounds like you got it made! Why not just level off and invest your extra money in other places? Diversify your bonds!
 
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  • #4
Haha. I wish it was that easy to spend the money. The problem is that our accountant tells us how she'd spend it, our banker tells us how he'd spend it, our wives tell us how they'd spend it,and we tell each other how we'd spend it. Everyone involved has good ideas that have merit, but nothing seems to be a slam dunk. I want to use it to make life easier on us since we're not getting any younger and it seems to be getting tougher to get out of bed each morning.

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Sounds like you got it made! Why not just level off and invest your extra money in other places? Diversify your bonds!
We still want to try and grow so that we can hopefully pass the business on to our kids. If they don't want it, then we will have more to sell off when the time is right.

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I hear you on that Eric. Honestly I think equipment is cheaper than employees, but a good third guy can really help out. Tough call since I don't know your market or your niche in that market.
 
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  • #7
Thats the hard part about asking for advice on the internet.... Everyone has a different market and a different niche. I just want to hear about how others have done it.

Today was a perfect example of how we could have used another person AND a loader. It really depends on what day of the week it is as far as what would serve us better.

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Debt free is a great place to be. Just a few more months and I'll be there again.

Just because you have some money doesn't mean you need to run and spend it...take your time and really think out where you want it...needs, wants, putting it to work now or for the future, or savings, etc. It doesn't all need spent, or put to the same purpose.

As for expanding your business, no one knows the things you go through each day, like bottlenecks in production etc., better than you yourself. In general, I prefer machines over people when possible, as they are less moody, more reliable, trustworthy, and productive, easier to communicate with and to assimilate into the crew, and cost less in the long run.
 
3 man crews :rockon:

So, what is your market like? Could you move into IPM stuff? A lot of tds, maybe a crane?
 
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  • #11
3 man crews :rockon:

So, what is your market like? Could you move into IPM stuff? A lot of tds, maybe a crane?
We already do plant health care stuff like fertilizations, insecticide and fungicide applications, etc. That is a great money maker but we don't like doing it that much,however that is one area that would be great to expand in.

We do equal pruning and removals. The removals that we do are typically smaller. I don't see a crane or bucket truck in our future. That's not the company that we are or want to be.

We used to work at a company that ran 3 man crews and it was nice but we always made more money on the days that we went down to 2 man crews. Having said that, days were generally easier when we had 3 on the crew.

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Debt free is a great place to be. Just a few more months and I'll be there again.

Just because you have some money doesn't mean you need to run and spend it...take your time and really think out where you want it...needs, wants, putting it to work now or for the future, or savings, etc. It doesn't all need spent, or put to the same purpose.

As for expanding your business, no one knows the things you go through each day, like bottlenecks in production etc., better than you yourself. In general, I prefer machines over people when possible, as they are less moody, more reliable, trustworthy, and productive, easier to communicate with and to assimilate into the crew, and cost less in the long run.
Good points. We love being debt free but we also understand that's not always the best place to be from a business standpoint. I know it sounds silly, but I really believe that to be true.

I totally agree with your other points and that's exactly why I am trying to consider all options available to us. It's a good problem to have. :)

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Well, if you really want to make a splash you could each find a helper and split into 2 crews, team up on certain jobs.
 
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Honestly, the way WC is, if you're going to hire one person, you might as well hire two. That would probably be a great way to expand if you could find 2 good people to hire.

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True, and after 7 years, maybe you guys could use a bit of a break from each other! I applaud you for making it that long, that is truly impressive.
 
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True, and after 7 years, maybe you guys could use a bit of a break from each other! I applaud you for making it that long, that is truly impressive.
That's funny. Our wives can't believe that we can still find things to talk about.

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Ha! That's how it is with my brother and I. A 28 year running dialogue can be pretty interesting.
 
Not a bleeding thing wrong with cash, but there is not a bleeding thing wrong with assets either.

If a banker told me that I was crazy for having too much cash on hand, I would have instantly thought about switching banks. Generally, when someone tells you to spend money, it is for their benefit, not so much yours.

Nearly every banker that I have ever dealt with cant see past their own noses. They dont tend to think long term. Never seen a banker that was good at the "what if" game.

There are lots of different things to do with that money, college funds, retirement. Right now I would stay away from mutual funds, stocks, and precious metals. Just a feeling I have.


Growing a business is such a difficult thing to do properly. I have gone from 40 cows to 400 and farming 300 acres to 3000. Honestly, I cant say that I am any better of than I was.

I am busier, more stressed, and much further in debt. The "empire" I am trying to build for my kids is largely keeping me from spending time with them. I wonder if that is the right thing to do.

These are questions I deal with.

We hired a full time man, just to be able to cope with the extra work. For the most part his wages completely offset any additional income that I might have realized by expanding.

We do have assets out the ass, and a pile of equity. Much further along than many in my age group, but we sure dont get to the lake like they do.

Yes, thats just me bitching! Honestly, right now we are looking at ways to work less and still maintain what we have. Work smarter, not harder.


In the small amount of time that I have read your posts Eric, I can say that you are one of the most squared away individuals around. I know you are looking at all aspects.

Nothing wrong with growing and bringing in/getting more work done. Just has to be efficient, and dont get caught working for the banks or machinery companies.

Good luck!
 
Good post, Jim.

No matter how much money I make my kids will have to make their own way.
 
Haha! Thanks. As is the norm with the Conrad clan since 1914, the kids will be helped out, not given everything. Unless I lose the sunofabitch first!

After re reading a bunch of this thread, I think Eric should downsize or stay put. Get some more shoe boxes to store all that cash, and loan the kids money when it is time for them to start on their own.

Live the good life!
 
Buy a mini loader and then hire a third. Ground man, trainee. That way you have the piece of kit that will up production whether or not the new guy or next new guy or even the next works out. Do not schedule more work because you enlarged the crew. Wait and see what you two and the equipment will do. Then schedule accordingly. Might want to find a sub climber. Bring him or her in when you need to open up that schedule. Have them do some production while you guys rock the ground. No W/C that way. But equipment is a must no matter. It will extend your health life in the business and increase production whether or not everyone shows up for work. I have run solo with the mini because one person just could not show up. Guess what.. It cost me a little more time, but I took the full days pay home.
Seriously. You owe it to yourself and your partner and family. Also.... try not to schedule every job. frig working weekends. Unless you really have to make up for lost days... just say no. Raise prices to compensate for what say Saturday might pay you.
 
I would get a mini loader something like a kanga loader with a bucket grapple and 4in1 bucket. The reason being is that you can drag lots of brush with a bobcat and feed the chipper quicker and more productively. It also allows you to pull over trees that have a slight lean to make sure that they go the right way even if they twist a bit. This is just my experience from being on sites where we have used a bobcat/ mini loader. it is also a useful item for stump grinder cleanup it you need to dispose of the grindings and if a client wants you to spread mulch for them. I personally moved about 40 cub of mulch with a kanga digger in one and a half days and that was including 2 15min tea breaks.
 
I agree on the mini loader. I agree on the groundies as well. My only concern would be how they might change the dynamic of you and your partner cause if the partnership is actually working well, you don't want any kinks added to that. Just keep scheduling work further out if need be. Raise your rates a little etc
 
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  • #25
Good info. I am definitely leaning towards getting a loader for many reasons.

I would love to hear more experiences from owners about when they hired their first employee. Did it get to a point that work was basically impossible unless they added someone or was it more of a calculated move to try and get ahead of the curve? How long did it take to see if it was worth it or not?

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