To pay, or not to pay

sotc

Dormant hero!!
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Dec 6, 2005
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So. Oregon
So I asked my crew of 4 if they wanted to go to an EHAP class on a Saturday. I told them I'd pay the $120 each if they wanted to go but not their time. They all signed on and learned a ton. 1 of my new guys that is a good hand told me this morning that he feels the class is mandatory after some of the things he learned and that wages should be covered as well. Told him I'd consider it awhile and am trying to do so fairly. What are your guys thoughts?
 
Do they own the cert or do they?

I wouldn't pay time on a new hire usually, if they load up on training and leave, then you've wasted money. I might pay their time 3-6 months later.
 
I'd be happy that you paid for the class. I was happy the boss paid for the class I just took. I was gonna take it even if I had to cover it plus use a vacation day to go. Im not sure if he's paying me for it or not. I'm not exactly sure how all that works though. I know we get paid for our quarterly half day meetings and they are mandatory.
 
No pay. If they can look at the bigger picture and see that they are gaining valuable knowledge for their career by an owner/boss who cares about their safety, that should be enough. Especially since they agreed to no pay before taking the class.
 
I'd pay them.
They are learning stuff that will benefit my company in the long run.
 
I would not pay them as agreed initially. I would, however give them a random "bonus" for good attendance & pushing themselves forward to help your company
 
Even though it was voluntary, if there was an "implied" sort of requirement the needed to attend, it should be counted as hours work.

If it really was voluntary and the employee knew there would be no repercussions, then it could be no pay.


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I'd give the option of day pay and they pay for the class, or pay for the class. Either way you win as its a write off, or just payroll. Can you re class your payroll? As in class time doesn't have the same liability as tree work from a WC standpoint?
 
I reckon you as the employer can write off the training course $$$ as a business expense.
Think I'm with Stig on this one.
My son's employer pays for their breakfast at a local restaurant every second Friday. The employees do not get any extra compensation for that time, lol.
 
Well is the class mandatory to do the job that this guy is hired for? If not, then the terms agreed to should be honoured imo. Paying out wages for courses and paying for the course can cost a employer a lot. Obviously if Willie pays this fellow everyone else that went to the course is getting paid too.

Whatever happened to striking an accord and sticking by it. Self entitled bs imo. I'd be looking to cut someone like that loose.
 
My feeling is with Squish on this one. Paying for the class served them beyond just what it brings to the company, and you had an arrangement. I'd probably be thinking, "What's with this guy that thinks what was the set up is inadequate"?
 
I think you've done enough by offering to send them to the class. They don't need wages on top unless that is something you've agreed to beforehand. And like Squish said, if these are employees who have a proven track record with your company, and are around for the long haul, then sure, it is worth it to pay them a days wadges for the additional benefit they will bring to bear on the job.

I have to go to OSHA classes every year, and I wouldn't do it, ever, if they didn't pay me. So Boring.
 
I pay for lunch and time at lunch.


I thought about it more and assuming it wasn't required attendance, I would tell them I would simply tell them I would pay them for their time in a given amount of time. That time would be dependent on the amount the class cost.

Investments in employees pays off over time. If they are there for the long term, in 3-6 months they get the pay for the time, a bonus, and perhaps a raise.
 
do they get a raise in pay after passing? if so, that is pay in itself and i would not pay the hours attended. if there is no effect on wages for the cert why not half pay, or a bonus down the line as was said earlier. i agree on not paying if they might walk after getting a bunch of certs on your dime.
 
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  • #21
Appreciate the input. So, no, the class was not mandatory nor was it implied to be so. This guy got some feeling from the class that it should be mandatory from something shared at the class. My feeling has been that if there are useful classes nearby and I can, I'll offer to the guys to pay for it if they want to attend. My feeling has been that if I invest "extra" in them, they should be willing to invest at least their time. Otherwise they may just go sleep through the class. I don't know. Interesting to see the varied opinions, carry on
 
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They don't get a raise for this class but can basically become "line clearance certified" through SOTC. I give raises for the C.A. But don't require it. I give a raise for CDL but do require that. All of these things make the employee more valuable to both them selves and me.
 
Are you real busy with work, Willie, enough to be generous? If things aren't that great, everyone has to somewhat share the burden of harder economic times, be they employees or employers. Everyone is in this thing together, broader thinking is better than just what one's own needs are. To me that is a fair way to look at it, but of course that may require having relatively smart people doing the thinking.
 
To me the issue isn't just I'm a cheap ass and don't want to pay, the issue is an accord was struck between Willie and the employees and then after the fact the employee tries to change this agreement based on his opinion that the course should be mandatory? No. To me that's like when a customer tries to negotiate pricing after a job is done. Again no.

I think the employee would be well within their rights to maybe mention that they wouldn't do that again on their own time or ask Willie about the parts/info that he felt was 'mandatory'.

I mean really a course is either mandatory by law or not, plenty of 'mandatory' information is given out in non-mandatory courses.

I think it's great of Willie or any company to offer employees education for free through courses or workshops and what not. And if it was agreed upon that they would attend of their own accord, then that's the deal.
 
I agree with, Squisher. Willie, the wording you used and your employees acceptance of the terms was a verbal contract, to be honored by both sides. It is a lesson in itself.
 
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