Topping. Why is it so hard, not to take it personal?

Did my best to try to talk a guy out of topping two semi-mature White Oaks.
plant Appraisal Value $ 7 000 each
Consider the neighbours.
Pruning to mitigate hazards.
Explain all the tangibles and intangibles.

Nothing left to to do but drop off more info. Ram it down his throat and his neighbours.
Any suggestions?

I talked some folks out of topping their white ash on two separate occasions, working at different tree services. A year ago, they finally got their wish and found a tree service that would give them what they thought they wanted. I did feel a little upset at the time. Now I am over it.

I don't let it bother me.

I'm going to set up another tree service, and call it Ed's Tree Topping - We top any tree. 'tired of pissy arborists trying to tell YOU what to do with YOUR tree? call us, and we will happily top it to your requirements!'

I'm going to clean up.

I always explain how in a few years the tree will be as big in size or bigger than it currently is, but with a multitude of weakly attached limbs that WILL begin to fail.
Most people want to top to reduce the overall size, if you explain to them the tree's response to the loss of tissue is to create more tissue as quickly as possible and the tree will in no time be as big or bigger and alot unsafer, and far more costly to maintain or remove in the future; most people will reconsider.

I try not to top beyond 3" diameter or 10 year old wood; sometimes that's still a lot of tree.

I consider any topping I do as the first step towards removal.

I do like Top does, if they still want it done, I walk. They own the tree, I own the company. If the want it topped, they can do it, If I don't want to work for them, I don't. No biggie, theres a couple neighbors a few doors down that whacked the heck out of their trees on a high visability street. I think it looks like crap but they don't seem to mind.

It really is a tough one. I wonder if you can walk through his reasoning process with him. Maybe talk with him and the neighbors at the same time.

He might say that they are too tall and he's afraid. He's probably thinking about the trunk and the branches, not the entire tree. He's likely thinking of the physics of the above ground part of the tree.

Sometimes when I point to a tree when talking about tree health, I specifically point to the ground far away from the trunk and say "your tree there" meaning the roots. People forget trees have roots. I explain about critical root zone dimensions, and try to talk about the biology.

I try to say things like "you can surely get rid of the infection in your hand by ripping your arm off, or maybe a cleaner amputation. That's about what happens with topping." Using "proper pruning and tree care" and "amputation" in the same conversation helps people to distinguish, IMO. They can surely shudder to think of that solution. It gets them to think of biology more than physics alone.

Literature about not topping trees is great, but pictures of root decay and failed topped trees can go a long way, too. I'll tell them about people whose topped trees survived the big storm, like most other trees, as few actually fail in the storm overall, only to have the root rot out and the tree ending up on their house 5-10 years later, after spending a bunch of money on the topping, and re-topping. Then I'll talk about hazard mitigations and good cultural practices.

I'd ask them where is the verified information that topping is a good practice, if they are really adamant about it.

I might even sometimes falsely say that I would top their tree, followed up by the removal price of the topped tree with its dangerous, typically included bark re-sprouted tops, and the guess-tamite of how much it would cost to remove it from their house (deductible, plus clean-up after its off the house and the insurance company pays $500 toward disposal) after root or stem rot occurs. Then, I can mention their insurance rates, and that the insurance company will then be nosing, possibly requiring them, out of their pocket, to remove other trees.


When I explain to people that I could have my ISA-CA credentials stripped for topping trees because it is malpractice and sooo damaging, they seem to hear that pretty well.

If all that doesn't work, nothing will, IMO.

Theres three or four, heres two I can see from my driveway. The one tree they left one sprout, I think because its over the service line aand they couldn't figure out how to get it down. Maybe I will get to remove them someday, until then, no my prolem

An occasional customer of mine asked me to top a mature silver maple after their ISA certified regular tree guy refused. Even an unlicensed part-timer like myself had to refuse but they still found someone to do it. They can't be happy with the way it looks even though they asked for it.

Youse guys need to spend a few years maintaining vegetation/ROW's. Ya'll'ed love it!

Ryan said:

An occasional customer of mine asked me to top a mature silver maple after their ISA certified regular tree guy refused. Even an unlicensed part-timer like myself had to refuse but they still found someone to do it. They can't be happy with the way it looks even though they asked for it.

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Would be interesting to know what they though after seeing it "finished", and 5 years from now. We rarely get this info.

Theres a valid reason for line clearance work. If I were bidding on preline clearance topping because the property owner wanted it, then I would be ok with that. I do vista pruning and pollarding too.

I did plenty of topping before I knew better. When I see it now my first thought is, what a horrible thing to do to a tree. My second thought is, I could have done that better.

SST I usually talk to them once a year and I'll be sure to ask. People around here get scared of trees as soon as the get over 30'. I've always take note of the local trees and usually feel disappointed when I notice the "empty space" where a nice one used to be. You can forget one that was removed but a topped one is like a beacon with the strategically staggered angle cuts. Makes me think all of the tops were spiked straight down into the sod. Avoid a lot of hangers that way I guess.

Ryan. That's an interesting deduction. I often thought it would seem like a heck of a lot of work to top a tree, unless you had bucket access, and could bring it down in little cut and chuck pieces. I guess if you are topping the tree, collateral damage lower on the tree is of little concern, essentially.

I don't like topping,but if I'm climbing for a company that called me for a top job,i will do it but I'll also tell the homeowner before hand that this is gonna ruin and possibly kill your tree.

I'm not bothered by it.
I present the reasons why I should not Top their Tree,if they still choose to do so,I choose to do it and thats that.

Customers in any Industry must choose to ignore the good advise of experts,but experts don't turn down good money.Imho.

I can usually talk them out of it, but most of the time it's already a done deal and I'm just the hired gun.

It's just the thing they do around here especially on the thousands of silver maples .
About a few years later when a big blows up and knocks the weakened second growths on top of an automobile down they come down any way

I've got a red maple out front right under the primary that I really have no choice in the matter .Either it stays a little short fatty or Asplundh takes it down .So shall it be until I get tired of fooling with it and prune it off ALAP myself ..

Thor's Hammer said:

I'm going to set up another tree service, and call it Ed's Tree Topping - We top any tree. 'tired of pissy arborists trying to tell YOU what to do with YOUR tree? call us, and we will happily top it to your requirements!'

I'm going to clean up.

Click to expand...

Ed' shelving his ethical standards. Do you have enough room on the bookshelf for that pamphlet?

Darin, Don't be silly-No pamphlet just a post-it note.
Most people listen when I explain the negative longterm consequences. Sometimes I sell them a nice pruning, sometimes a crown reduction as a less nastyu option than topping and sometimes they get some one else. C'est la vie! Oh gag-French!

Darin, Don't be silly-There is no pamphlet-it is just a little post-it note.

Most people listen when I explain teh negative consequences of topping. Sometimes I sell a nice pruning. Sometimes I sell a crown reduction as a less bad alternative to topping. Sometimes they get someone else. C'est la vie. Aargh, patooey,....French!

I have done and am doing a major crown reduction right now. 10" diameter cuts and bit bigger.Trees are to hazardous they way they are. And its not my fault they were never pruned properly when young. But I did manage to talk him out of cutting the worst one down and spend the money on pruning instead. Even though it looks less than normal.
I like the pollards and this can be done really well.
I like making money with the fun of the job.
But over 5 years ago I took down a pretty big Walnut for a neighbour a few blocks away(drive, garage and pool going in). It got ugly with a couple of moms and children hugging the tree and crying.
My client threatened to call local government and charge them with trespassing. That hurt business for quite some time in the neighbourhood. I think crappin in your own backyard is a bad idea.
I think given some time this HO will make the right decision. And hopefully any one else estimating will tell him the same.
Some people will only see a tree as big weed in their Carrot patch and thats that.
Thank you gentlemen for your thoughts.
I'm pretty much over it now.