munter for light rigging?

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Greenhorn

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Been having to rig out stuff with just one groundie lately - as he is sometimes busy with a tagline I have been belaying the piece from the tree. If there is not a stub or similar to use for friction it really eats up the gloves fast. Anybody use a munter hitch on a carabiner for this purpose?

Was gonna try it tomorrow, just wondering if orientation and type of carabiner makes a big difference?

thanks!
 
Keep the loads light, and don't shock the system much...it'll work fine. Orientation doesn't matter, the munter will invert and work from either direction. Use an HMS style biner, that is, pear shaped with the munter on the wide end for best performance.

A rescue 8 works even better, if you have one.
 
I've done it, a little bit.

Get a mini porty, and use it as the "block" and lower loads right down off it. I have a mini one, invaluable for self rigging. Nice to be able to tie off the load, take more wraps, blah blah. All within reason though, as everything.
 
Sure, it'll work fine if the loads are kept light.You can always cut a limb and leave a 4" to 6" long stub and take wraps on that for bigger pieces.
 
Hey Greenhorn: The single best trick that I ever learned in this trade was given to me by Gerald Beranek in his Fundamentals of General Treework book. It has to do with simply wrapping the rope around the stem--you don't have to leave nubs or anything. The key is to simply set the wraps in a downward (rather than upward) direction for tying off a load that is ABOVE you so as to avoid running the loaded end over the wraps. This is super counter-intuitive, and you'd be surprised how many old-timers don't know this simple trick. What real tree guy that you know, always has the foresight to leave a convenient nub where he needs it?
 
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is there a pic in the book of this?
 
Muenter madness!

I say yest to muenter! I used that all the time so I didn't have to leave it to a groundie. Use an HMS and go for it!
 
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I spelled it wrong dangit, some German came up with it I suppose...
 
The Italian hitch is the goods; recommended by the AMGA for belay.

Practice makes perfect; just don't let it load against, say, the trunk of a tree - it can bind if laying against a flat surface and loaded.

Try every combo to see what I mean.
 
Greenhorn: Yah man. P. 41 in the Fundamentals book. Best trick ever. You can do the exact same thing by-the-way on perfectly plumb spars when having to rope-out chunks. Do yourself a favor and leave the extra caribeeners and the figure eight thing in the truck. You'll be jingling like Santa Clause up the darn tree taking all that junk up with ya'. Leave that stuff for the Gearheads.
 
Oh my Gosh! Yah... Wouldn't that put just WAY too much friction on the darn caribeener? By the way: what type of cordage do you guys think that is? That stuff looks really good. I've--if you can believe this--been using R.E.I. utility cord (I know, I know...LOL) for a V.T. hitch. Lately, I've been thinking that that's not such a hot idea--even though that stuff claims to have 3,400 lbs. tensile strength. The stuff in that image looks a lot sweeter.
 
Jed, that utility cord is most likely nylon...not as resistant to heat/friction as polyester, and not in the ballpark with the heat resistant cords. Go real slow on descents with that stuff, and moniter the inside of the hitch close and regular.

I can't imagine the carabiner giving a fig's care about the second turn and the resultant extra friction, myself.
 
No... the caribiner wouldn't care in the least, but it seems that the climber who is actually trying to get to the ground before lunchtime might; or the rigged-off wood for that matter.

Really appreciate the advice about the R.E.I. stuff. Still... I'm thinkin' the stuff's not Nylon. I haven't quite had the leisure yet to do some extreme burn-down (from a low height, of course!) type of testing yet, but I have done some relatively big descents from these nasty Lombardys we've been working on, and it doesn't seem to glaze over bad at all. Seems on-par with the "Bee-line" stuff so far--except for the fact that it is of a smaller diameter. Yah, I keep twisting it around each time I tie it so as to wear it all around more or less evenly, but it really doesn't seem to wear too fast at all. I'm almost scared to write this for fear that the uninitiate might try the same stunt, but the cost thing is almost too hard to overlook.

I realize that this should probably be in the climbing forum; it's just that I wouldn't want to encourage anybody. As of yet... yeah... God only knows what it's made of. By the way: does anybody have any idea what the difference between "tensile strength" and "average breaking strength" might be. Like they actually took the time to test it one way (a.b.s.) and just took a guess on the other!
 
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