Oh..I get it... res arbo experiences some forestry!

I was helping a friend with felling and prepping his small pine plantation yesterday, and in doing so I came to realize the circumstances that a tree climbing residential arborist does not see or experience very often that would lead to the differences in choice of felling technique by those very experienced forestry types who help make up the superb depth of experence here at the House.

In the past we've discussed the choice between top cut or bottom cut first when making the 'gob' or face cut, and the low strap release for a head leaner.

I watched my friend fell every tree putting his bottom cut in the face first...they let me fell one, I did what I always do, slant cut first then bottom, and as I put in my backcut I realized...oh boy, it'll be as plain as the nose on my face which stump belongs to the arbo...mine was like 6" high as opposed to about 3 or 4" for his! Unless I got REAL low, I could see how bottom cut first would be advantageous for consistent low stumps.

The last tree of the day was a fairly hefty edge tree, the branches and the lean had it around 50* to the only open spot, we were all pretty tired by then so chose to leave it for the next day when he's got some machinery coming. To make matters worse there is a pile of elm planks right behind the tree where we would have wanted to put a wedge and use a sledhammer, no room to swing. As we talked about it I mentioned we could perhaps face it, bore it, set wedges in the back of the bore then trip it...but I could see that it would run the risk of the saw hitting the wedges if the release was the way I'd been taught, coming down at an angle from above. Later, after coffee and apple pie, I remembered the discussion we had on releasing flat from below the backcut...there would have been no risk of hitting the wedges then...!

But, the chook shed and some nice trees are in the way, so the experiment will have to wait for another day when the LZ is nice and clear.

Also thinking about it, releasing a heavy tree that needs to turn, would the sudden release of the strap overcome the effect of the wedges and a face aiming towards the clear spot, and the damn tree just go where it wants anyway!?

Cheers all, having fun out here in Oz land expanding my tree experiences!

It is a shame that you are so far from Denmark. I'd enjoy taking you into the woods here and letting you knock some big size hardwoods over.
But of course the cold would be hard for you to endure.
Richard is constantly complaining about that, he's from South Africa. He sure suffers during winter, here.

As for your strap release question, I don't see why the tree wouldn't follow the face, if your hinge is thick enough.
I cannot recall ever havin one jump off the stump from the force of the strap being released.

But why use a backstrap on a tree that needs to be wedged over?

stig said:

...
But why use a backstrap on a tree that needs to be wedged over?

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This is what I'm not understanding, either. I thought the purpose of setting up a cut with a backstrap release was to prevent the tree from going over prematurely before the hinge was set up properly? If there is not enough head lean for it to go over without wedges then the backstrap will only prevent your wedges from lifting. And wedges don't store energy so once the backstrap is cut the wedges won't cause the tree to jump up until you pound on them some more.

Actually Skwerl, wedges can store some lift energy. Not to quibble with your basic questions...and Stig's.

Only scenario for wedges + backstrap I can think of is when felling in high winds.
I'll sometimes set a backstrap to make sure the wind doesn't knock the tree over before I've completed my back cut, causing a barberchair.

Also when starting rookie fallers on big trees I have them do it, untill they learn how to read lean in a tree.

Since we borecut almost everything anyway it doesn't take much longer to do, and I avoid loosing an apprentice to a barberchair.

I love trying new stuff.

Regards the wedges and backstrap...the tree in question was right up hard against a pile of elm planks out to season, so the spot where you would want to put the wedges and swing a sledge was not reachable without deconstructing the whole carefully stacked pile. There was enough room to poke a saw in the back and thats about it. You'd only be able to wiggle a wedge in by hand, and not be able to pound it with anything.
So my thought was (only a thought...a ponder if you will...) face it, set a hinge by boring, wallop a couple wedges in the very back of the bore, right up to the strap, where there was just enough room, maybe two on the lean side, stacked or a good high lift wedge...then release the strap with the undercut so as not to hit the wedges and ping them into outer space.
I wondered if the 'turned' face and wedges would do the trick...be enough to overcome the side lean and get it to commit to the face with the somewhat sudden release by cutting the strap.

PS, Stig, I have proper cold icy weather in my future, maybe not deep snow!...my class C all around Stihl high flex are going to be nice and cosy...did I say I like to try new stuff

If there is not enough head lean for it to go over without wedges then the backstrap will only prevent your wedges from lifting.

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Believe it or not, despite all logic and literature - I know a course in Australia that is teaching straight standing trees to be felled using back release and wedge... :what:

Better safe than sorry.
A storm may blow in while you are making your backcut

Bermy said:

In the past we've discussed the choice between top cut or bottom cut first when making the 'gob' or face cut, and the low strap release for a head leaner.

I watched my friend fell every tree putting his bottom cut in the face first...they let me fell one, I did what I always do, slant cut first then bottom, and as I put in my backcut I realized...oh boy, it'll be as plain as the nose on my face which stump belongs to the arbo...mine was like 6" high as opposed to about 3 or 4" for his! Unless I got REAL low, I could see how bottom cut first would be advantageous for consistent low stumps.

Click to expand...

Bermy, sometimes when we do the top cut first the saw can block our sight of the base of the tree resulting in a higher stump height than anticipated. Its been discussed as you said the pro's and cons to which cut first but if you are used to doing top first just before you start the cut put a small score cut ( no depth just bark really) where you would like the base of your face cut to be and it will give you a reference point to begin the top cut from. When training I get alot of people either ending up with high stumps due to top cut first or massive face cuts due to starting the top cut too high but then cutting down to to the tree's base to avoid the high stump situation but the angle of the cut taking them in and down. If the tree has them and they are not needed just a small buttress cut can give you a level to work off for face height.

Orrrr...just make the horizontal cut first, like the rest of us provincial wingnuts do it .

I knew as soon as i posted the reply what would be said by someone!!! ahh well you know us europeans we don't even drive on the right side of the road apparently. lol

All in good fun, mate.

We Europeans drive on the right side of the road, those weird inhabitant of the British islands don't

So where in the Chunnel do you switch?

It is a rail tunnel, fortunately.

Can you imagine the confusion otherwise!

stig said:

We Europeans drive on the right side of the road, those weird inhabitant of the British islands don't

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Stig Im not feeling the european love!

Arr, harr Burnham!
Ta HuskyD, nice tip.
Seeing situations for real brings some of these discussions to mind, then I really see some of the why's and wherefore's you all have mentioned. I'm on a learning curve since escaping Paradise...
Bore release for a straight tree is just...well...to much CYA! That's why I like having a felling bar to hand...or do a split level if you're that worried it'll sit back...

Bermy
...... down under in Tasmania what direction is your trees average natural lean?
Here in Canada a trees natural lean is towards south east. Seeing your south of the equater your lean should be towards the north east. Alot of people don't realize about a "trees average natural lean". But myself having done years of forestry tree falling production with a chainsaw, the trees here in stands or even by themselves always lean towards the south east, only exception is near bodies of water, uphill or along edges of open areas.

My point is always orienteer direction first while judging a trees lean.

Willard

stig said:

We Europeans drive on the right side of the road, those weird inhabitant of the British islands don't

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No, you drive on the Wrong side of the road.

As for top cut first, I always put my top cut in first, and can easily cut stumps super low.

HolmenTree said:

down under in Tasmania what direction is your trees average natural lean?

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No lean down there, must be something to do with gravity.

Thor's Hammer said:

As for top cut first, I always put my top cut in first, and can easily cut stumps super low.

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Pushing the tree over roots and all with a digger doesnt count as a low stump, sorry.

HolmenTree said:

down under in Tasmania what direction is your trees average natural lean?
Here in Canada a trees natural lean is towards the south east. Seeing your south of the equater your lean should be towards the north east.

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I asked this question on AS a few years ago and a couple of tree fallers from Oregon said their trees on the average lean towards the South South East.
I'm just curious what direction of phototropism is south of the equater.
Here is a good question .....would trees on the equater have less phototropism lean?

Willard.

Tree Reb said:

No lean down there, must be something to do with gravity.

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Man that is an extreme case of "geotropism":what:

Willard

Good one Reb!
Finding a good TIP near the roots is difficult, but at least its a straight shot down to the crown...