Preventing Swing

Hi,

This is my first post. This is my second year doing tree work on a part time basis. I have a lot to learn and have been reading the forums for a while. If there is anybody in the Hartford, CT area I would like to meet them.

My question is: When rigging a piece of wood off a different stem than you're working on and the piece dosen't directly hit the other stem, I've seen a crazy pendulum effect develop. A 500 lb piece isn't easily going to be controlled by a tag line and a ground worker hanging on to it. How do you guys control the swing?

Thanks,
Chris

Hi Chris, and welcome.

Run your tag line through a friction device just below the cut. You can use a sling and biner for small pieces, a figure 8, a natural crotch, or just take a wrap around the stem. This can be held by the ground man if he's good enough to handle 2 ropes, another ground man, or you can control it yourself. Just let out slack as the piece break loose and it will stop the crazy swing. It's like a redirect. Make sense?

Welcome to the treehouse.

Letting the wood run vertically, through the use of a port-a-wrap anchoring device, before stopping it and lowering it gradually, is one common way that controls swing.

If I get your question correctly.....

I do like Mr. Sir, figure 8 right below the cut

Jay you are missing the concept.
Brett had a very workable solution to the problem.

Could be, and I missed his post.

Hey Cris! Welcome to the TreeHouse and don't be shy to complete your profile.

Would it be all that bad if your load swung? I mean, I'll let a load swing as long as there isn't any harm gonna come from it. I'll just wait for it to stop swinging. Otherwise, I'll do as the previous (except Jay!) members suggested.

If you can, let it run as the piece swings toward the middle of the swing, and hold it as it's swinging away. Often, I'll run a piece straight into the ground right below the pulley, so it never gets the chance to swing away.

I rarely have a groundie with that skill.

Stopping the pendulum

Mr Sir,

That makes great sense. The only downside I see is it will add a force to the stem I'm on. I'll have to try that out next time. Thanks for all the responses.

Chris

If you let it run and slow it down gently, it shouldn't be an issue. Timing is everything.

Brendon is very close to you and is an accomplished climber and treeman. Unfortunately I haven't lived in Glastonbury since I was 4, so I can't help you there.

(I lived on a little dead end street called Hopewell Heights, best as I can remember)

What do you do thursdays and fridays? Have insurance?



PM Me if you'd like.

Welcome to the TreeHouse Chris.

What Brett said will work, but a figure eight has to unclipped to put the rope through it. We use a small porta -wrap in the tree with a piece of rope about 6-8 ft. long. Principle is the same. We use a bucket truck though, so the porty is easy to move around. This would be cumbersome for a climber. The figure eight is more suited for the climber.

A short piece of rope with a bowline on the end will work just as good. Just make your undercut or notch first, then choke the piece ahead of the cut and either use a half hitch or spiral the remaining length around the stem and tie off somehow. Make it easy on yourself.

After the cut is made and piece is suspended. Just let the short rope out and let it run till the lowered piece is vertical on the lowering line and won't swing. The short rope gets lowered with the work piece and serves as a tag line for the ground guy. Have the groundie tie the short rope onto the lowering line for next trip up to you for the next piece if you need it.

The forces on the stem your on aren't that dramatic when using a butt hitch.

Hope this helps

The rope doesn't even need to be tied off with a hard lock. A short tag line (10-15') tied to the work and then just take 2-3 wraps around the limb behind the cut (or another limb) will work just fine. No additional hardware needed. If you use less wraps then the rope will slip slightly when the work swings out, reducing forces on the limb you're on.

I use a rough rigging line on the stem and put two half hitches and then a running bowline. The face cut goes between the two half hitches. Sometimes I run the rope myself and sometimes I just let the friction do the work.

I stick with skilled ground help and we let'em run all the way to the ground. A skilled roper can land big, off axis pieces in the same spot every time. Gravity works, the piece wants to go down more than it wants to swing. As long as your groundie doesn't snub it, it won't swing much. If they snub it... yeah, it can get wild.

Never used the figure eight idea before but it sounds workable.

Last time I did it was on a tree growing through the deck

The port-a-wrap mini would be perfect to rig right below the cut. Take a couple of wraps with the tag line, and just let it hang. When the cut starts to swing, just the friction of the wraps will slow it down considerably. You don't even have to keep a hand on it.

I have also used a stop line to control the swing. I say stop line because in my mind a tag line is a line under control. I estimate the distance from the start of the swing to where the swing reaches vertical. Say it's 12 feet. Tie a loop that the lowering line runs through. (Or run a pulley or biner on the rope if you prefer.) Then tie the stop line off below the cut. After the cut is made, the piece will swing past vertical just a lttle before being brought to a sudden stop. Then as it swings back toward you, pull in some slack and "yo-yo" the piece until it stops swinging. And by making the stop line a little longer than the distance to vertical, shock on the stop line is reduced because the load is already past vertical (a little) and is already slowing down. This also works great, because once the groundman has untied the lowering line, all the climber has to do is pull it right back over within reach. Often, swing needs to be arrested because of something on the opposite side of the swing (power lines, house, etc.) so a quick arrest is better than a tag line, and letting it run is not an option. I have tied the stop line very short in these instances, but as CTYankee mentioned, it DO add shock to the stem the climber is on.

I take a wrap on the remaining piece of the limb.

Here's how we did one during Katrina...some yo-yo-ing swing here...this is not working off the same spar...we had a dedicated belay tree here. I probably could have used a snap cut instead of the notch...still learning.

Some of you guys have already seen this...repeat.

<embed id=VideoPlayback src=http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=8903789416120180719&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>

I like to KISS, so a wrap around the stem will do. I don't mind going for rides though, depending on the tree of course. It spices up the day a little.

Lately I have been carrying around a small porty like mentioned above. I'll throw it on the saddle when it looks like I might need it. Just for self lowering in tight spots, it gives the ground man the opportunity to worry where the limb is going, not tending the rope and the limb. It can be used for controlling the swing too.

Letting it run

Guys,

Thanks for the discussion and welcome. I guess one thing I'm missing in my setup is the ability to let a piece run all the way to the ground before it swings past the rigging point. I'm using a 3/4" 3 strand and a large port a wrap and it dosen't want to run fast. I'll have to look into a better rope for the port a wrap.

Thanks,
Chris

Brendon I sent you a pm.

Go bigger or take less wraps it'll run just the same.