Training the Regiment

Bermy

Acolyte of the short bar
Joined
May 3, 2008
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Tasmania
Ok, so we're felling 'pecker poles' 8 - 10"...not your PNW monsters! This is an eight day intro to maintenance crosscutting and felling. The pic is the first day of their felling...keeping it to little trees to start, they'll get up to 15" by the end of the course.

The Bda Regiment is embodied during hurricanes for cleanup afterwards. They discovered during Fabian in '03 that their poulans and craftsmans and brute force did not cut it and they were lucky to get away without a fatality, one soldier ended up in the hospital after getting flung out of a windblow that he was cutting while standing in it...:what:

I did their first training course in '04, this is the third. They now have a good amount of kit..290's, 360's wedges, felling bars, come alongs...and camoflage chaps!

These guys are novices and one has never used a saw before, after five days they are now doing split level cuts, bore cuts, in addition to regular felling. Next week we do take down of hungups, hand tools and winches and I'll do a couple big trees (2 to 3x diameter of bar) for them to decide how to process it safely, and I'll see if I can find some recent blowdown to demo so they can get an idea of forces. A big emphasis is on risk assessment and site organization, situational awareness and SAFETY!

The site is the old US Naval Annex in Bermuda, right across the road from the 'Bermadoo' if any of you guys were ever stationed through here...all overgrown and derelict now, quite sad.
 

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MY GAWD THOSE TREES ARE HUGE!!!!:\:

:lol:


Cool. I wish I woulda had some formal training when I started. Maybe I wouldn't have cut myself in the first week.
 
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  • #4
Ha ha Butch!

Yup, pecker poles they are! I daren't let them loose on anything bigger till they could match their felling cuts properly...we all had to start somewhere!
 
They're soldiers, Jay. I believe that's their fatigues.


Or... they were trying to sneak up on the trees. :shifty:
 
Right, "regiment" was mentioned. Looks like a few dull chains are going to result from the way they are working.
 
Bermy, the first time I read that I thought you said he was flung out of a window. :O

Are those Australian pines?
 
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  • #13
How did you get that gig?

I'm the only certified chainsaw instructor on the Island, its part of my business...and I went to school with the CO and the 2IC...and this is a real small place...

Yup the camo is 'cause they are soldiers, they are going to have to have Hi Viz vests if they deploy after a hurricane, otherwise we'll never spot 'em!
One doofed his chain into the asphalt...lots of sharpening.

Yes those are 'Australian pine' otherwise known as Casuarina...brought in in the 50's as windbreak trees after out endemic cedar forest was decimated in a scale blight. They now self seed with abandon and are invasive.

They've moved up to bigger trees now, doing quite well really, but they will need to practice regularly to consolidate the new skills.

Forgot my camera today, I'll take it tomorrow
 
At least they were given the right kind of saw.


A Stihl...
 
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  • #17
Forgot my camera...

The four man squad is now known as the 'Treebusters' consisting of Brute, Force, Ignorance, and Beast...of course coached and led by the Beauty!!!
They've come up with a parade drill with chainsaws and will post it on youtube soon...

Bigger, taller trees now, tomorrow is the last day, student's choice and they want to go BIG...should be fun:what:
 
Bermy.

After your experience training people, possibly could you give something in the way of a synopsis in terms of how many days of training and practice turns a person with no chainsaw ability, into one that has learned the fundamentals, and can carry along increasing their skills on their own, safely and reasonably disciplined?

I've done some chainsaw use educating, but either the people didn't keep it up with regular activity, or I was unable to follow up on the progress for one reason or another. I've wondered if some general standards could be established for people moving up the learning curve with some predictability, from an initial basically "know nothing" position.

Thanks.
 
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  • #19
I'll get back to you on that, give me a few days, tired out this evening and real busy this week!
 
Sure, at your convenience. It's just something that interests me for some reason, chainsaw education. Go figure.....

Chainsaw use certification is a one day course here. I wouldn't know about it, except that they tell me that it's sometimes required for government contracts :/:, and I've seen a few folks who have completed it :O
 
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  • #21
Well...

The courses I run are registered with Lantra Awards in the UK.

For basic chainsaw maintenance and operation, I run a three day course. It covers all the basic power unit maintenance including chain ID and sharpening, then out to the field for delimbing and crosscutting (limbing and bucking I think you call it) with a large emphasis on risk assessment, site safety and stance and positioning in relation to tension and compression. After three days about 85% of people are good to go, in possesion of the basic skills and capable of working safely. Every now and then I get a numpty that just can't get it.

For felling (small trees up to 16") I run a five day course. For both courses everyone gets a certificate of attendance, but for a certificate of competence there is a seperate independant assessment for a City & Guilds/NPTC certificate. If I teach I cannot assess. I would say the pass rate is about 80-85% overall. Of the most recent group, only one, maybe two I would consider ready for the felling assessment, the others just don't have the skills yet, they need more time to practice and consolidate. The biggest problem is hinge diameter...too many overcuts and triangle shaped hinges.

So...did that help?
Three days to turn out a reasonable ground operator, basic maintenance and timber already on the ground, and at least five days for a novice feller of small trees. I've attached a link to the standards that I teach to , and that the students are assessed to upon completion of training, scroll down to the chainsaw operations, CS30 and CS31
http://www.nptc.org.uk/assessment-schedules/
 
Very helpful and informative post, plus the link. Bermy, thank you. I like how you have separated the basic chainsaw m and o, from the falling education part.

Do you find that when people start the training, they are adequately respectful of the risks of using the tool improperly? I attempt to instill that first thing, but maybe it isn't necessary? My method is to put a chainsaw on the ground and ask them what they see. Everyone goes.."duh, a chainsaw?" No, I say, first see a potentially lethal instrument, then see a chainsaw. Kind of dumb, but most people so far who have asked me to teach them , don't have a clue about it
 
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  • #23
People THINK they know the risks, but they really don't realize all the ins and outs.

I start by asking them all what experience thay have, if any, then if they have heard/seen of any accidents or had any themselves or even close calls. I usually get one or two anecdotes, and it helps set the tone...this last group told me of how FOUR guys were 'stuck' to a tree during hurricane cleanup because they didn't see the top was in the power lines. One managed to break loose, his saw cut through the log and broke the ground, they had to body tackle the rest...WOW!!!

I then move on to linking each bit of PPE to the potential for injury, and show nasty pictures if I can.
We then discuss risk assessment, and emergency procedures. Each day a site specific risk assessment is filled out and agreed and signed by everyone.
After that we go over the safety features of the saw, and how they are designed to reduce the risk of injury...by the end of all this their respect has crept up a few notches!

Out on site the biggest challenge is to change bad habits, the most common being standing over the bar thus placing body parts in the kickback zone. A lot of people don't want to bend their legs rather than just leaning over and that leads to bad positioning. Also novices are a bit wary of bracing the saw against their legs, so they tend to hold it away from themselves again leading to the saw being held in front of the body, instead of to the side.

By the end of the first day and a half, they seem to realize that a chainsaw is no longer just another power tool that you buy from the hardware store!
 
Seems like a very beneficial program that you have going. Good work!

Chainsaw certification to meet the standards for working on government land here, is a one day program. I don't believe there is much in the way of individual evaluation, to determine if someone has learned anything, it's pretty much just that a body there gets the piece of paper. Teachers are classroom types, with little experience themselves in the field. You can easily guess the results of this approach. The powers that be, admit it themselves, "Lots of injuries". I tried to penetrate the inner sanctum to offer my services as an instructor, but they weren't interested in having a foreigner in such a position, in a government program. Idiots, plain and simple.

Your way shows what could be.....
 
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