What, exactly IS a 'hack' tree person?

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Frans

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I have noticed a couple of posts recently which made me think of this.

One, a post of a tree declining because of grade changes, and the solution was made to prune the deadwood, and expose the basel area which was buried.

Another, a 'trees are fine' snap-shot evaluation of mature trees located in a very tight urban area with major 'targets'.

I don't want to piss anyone off here, but my take on what makes a hack tree person is that they apply their opinion to a tree situation while at the same time ignoring basic tree facts.


An Arborist, will/should evaluate a tree while keeping in mind and utilizing, a comprehensive scientific knowledge of tree care information. If that knowledge is not there, then the information should be re-searched and then presented to the client.

A hack will apply what is essentially an opinion. Or, even worse, a hack will slant the information given to a client to land a job working on the tree. ie: make some money from the client.


Our industry, despite how far it has developed over the past few years, has still not garnered the deep respect given to say a medical doctor or other such professional occupations.

Information received from an arborist, if truly based on science, will, with small changes, be much the same from arborist to arborist.

I personally feel that it is vital that arborists make every effort to raise the standard by being as professional as humanly possible.

Because the fact is, you still can drive down any street in any city and view examples of poor workmanship, and even worse, examples of un-informed planning and design.
 
Frans, I am glad that you haven't wasted as much time as I have visiting various medical Doctors.

There is validity to your point but at this point I find that I respect trauma surgeons and the 1% of Doctors who treat symptoms intelligently. The remaining bulk of MDs now seem to me to be little more than hacks.

As arborists let's be 1 percenters. More than that seems too much to expect.
 
There's an abundance of hack experts over at the Buzz that can answer your question in volumes of rhetoric.

All the scientific facts aside most tree work practices follow geographic lines of what is acceptable or unacceptable. There's way too many finger pointers out there.

Consider, line clearance trimming, it's viewed as hack work to most arborists driving down the road that see it. But amongst the trimming crews doing the work are individuals trying the best they can to do good work, and leave the tree looking like a tree when their done. And the others just don't care and slaughter the trees for the sake of clearance. Either way is still considered the work of hacks.

And even in the private sector it goes on much the same.

The trimming we did on the Tree House was considered to be a hack job to some people. Because it didn't follow the rules they work by.

My Cypress Row project also. In both instances I applied myself to do the best job I could,, for the sake of the trees, and they stand out as being beautiful and healthy trees today.

The view trims we do along the coast are blatant hack work and so I shy away from doing view trims for that reason, but on occasion I will. If there is a chance the tree will still resemble a tree and survive I'll do my best. In that respect I go at it with the feeling that I can do a better hack job than most.
 
"" Or, even worse, a hack will slant the information given to a client to land a job working on the tree. ie: make some money from the client""""

IMA HACK
can i go to hackers anonamous
 
While I'm sure there are some people out there who just don't give a damn, I think most people in this business are trying to do their best. I'd say the former are hacks, and the latter are not. Even though they might not know how to make a proper pruning cut, they probably would do it right if they knew how. I think it's the will to do the best job possible that separates the hacks from the real professionals.
 
My big beef is that the definition of a hack will vary based on who you ask. I'm sure there's a percentage of arborists out there that consider me a hack. And there's lots of guys that I consider as being hacks. The list of hacks will change based on who's making the list.
 
It's definitely relative. Some CAs think anyone who isn't certified is hack.

One problem is, 'hack' is a derogetory term so no one wants it applied to themselves... rather, only to people they think are less knowledgeable.

There's tree cutters and there are arborists and probably a few other distinguishing terms that might be more appropriate.

Educating customers is one of the best ways to raise the professional standing of arborists. Behaving professionally and getting positive results is just as important.
 
Interesting thread.

I suspect that economics and workmens comp play a far larger role than many ISA cert arbs like to admit in the majority of hack work that gets done these days, and that it will only get worse as the economy does.

Atleast here in socal it certainly is true in my opinion.

Larger companies here all have cert arbs on staff, but they are some of the worst hackers around. The only time these bigger outfits actually comply with ISA standards is in trees that can be reached with their buckets, or when a city super is on the job watching their work diligently.

The reasons all boil down to work comp liability and production quotas being met. The owners of these companies know that putting their climbers in trees inaccessible to buckets or beyond their reach without gaffs not only drops their production rate, it also increases their work comp claims, because without gaffs their climbers get hurt far more often.

I used to sub to these companies years ago and get paid good money because of my ability to prune 100 foot+ eucs to class one standards with no gaffs, but those types of pruning jobs are few and far between these days.

Cheap labor is pretty much king here in socal these days. This is the primary reason I now only do strategic removals and cabling that pretty much demands proven experienced skills, everything else gets done by cheap labor climbers wearing gaffs.

But there was a time back in the 90's when I took great pride in pruning huge eucs to class one standards gaffless, and the proof that the tree had been pruned to standard was evident 6 months to one year later because no sucker growth was evident in the pruned trees at that later date, unlike the gaffed overpruned hackwork of the cheap labor competition that always suckered out or died.

I miss the old days when quality work was recognized and paid well for.

The best work that I see being done these days usually gets done by small companies whose owner is in the field making sure the work gets done right even if it means doing it themselves. I can always spot these companies work, even though the job is over, the tree's tell me they were there!

jomoco
 
I'm a hack. :)

I suspect that a bit like the term 'Fascist', its meaning is variable, and it depends on who's doing the name calling.
 
Different terms for different jobs. We have lots of companies around here that won't take pruning jobs, only TDs. I wouldn't call them arborists really, they don't know tree care at all... but they are good at what they do so they aren't really hacks either. I call'em tree cutters.

The hacks are these lames that used to be IT Directors or Photographers that happen to stumble into the business cuz they couldn't make a buck any other way. ;)
 
I think the term "hack" should be reserved to those with no conscience, like a sociopath. If you think about decades ago and the practices and treatments that have changed through research, were those arbs hacks? They were operating to current standards. Flush cuts, tree paint, cavity filling, etc, etc.

Frans' initial assertion that those that do not follow science are hacks would be based on the assumption that our profession is highly evolved scientifically. I do not agree. We are in the baby steps stage IMO.
 
Not including my posts here, I have over 10,000 posts at AS, nearly as many at TB, and I've never used the word "hack" until now.
 
I kinda agree with Treevet. It's all relative.

I don't do nearly the PHC I used to- does that mean I'm a hack now that I do mostly TD's?

To me, the term "hack" defines ones ethics more than their knowledge.
 
Not including my posts here, I have over 10,000 posts at AS, nearly as many at TB, and I've never used the word "hack" until now.

That is very commendable. "Judge not....unless you can stand to be judged yourself...(something to that effect)"

This forum seems to stand above the others in this category.
 
[...]

To me, the term "hack" defines ones ethics more than their knowledge.

Now we're getting somewhere. I think that's the best characterization of 'hack' so far. Someone who doesn't balance income with ethics.
 
I kinda agree with Treevet. It's all relative.

I don't do nearly the PHC I used to- does that mean I'm a hack now that I do mostly TD's?

To me, the term "hack" defines ones ethics more than their knowledge.

I think most tree companies do predominantly td's anymore. Man....up til recently ....didn't we pump the $hit out of the N fertilizer into every tree?

Back in the day...we sprayed every day of the spring, summer and fall...regardless of whether any targets were there. They could be there and, what could it hurt (sarcasm here)
 
I believe profoundly in education, and the fact that learning can bring understanding.

I recall the term "hack" when I first started in the biz. June of 69. I wasn't qualified enough to say back then who was or who wasn't a hack. But in comparing to the standards of today everybody was a hack back then.

The truth of the matter is,, the main stream beliefs of today were not the main stream back when I started. Nonetheless there were many tree guys I knew who had a very high standard in the quality of their work. And of the best would be considered a hack today.

It's probably very obvious to all that I'm very defensive on the matter of who calls who a hack.
 
It's a interesting conversation this. Because I beleive in the proper way of doing things as far as current 'standards' or science is concerned. But I also agree in ownership over trees as in my customer owns those trees outright without owing any part of them to anyone else(mortgages aside). Their decision is ultimately their's to make. I will educate someone as much as they're interested in, but ultimately I'll put my bid in. I've flat out refused very little work.
 
Well said Jerry. The term sounds like some playground bulley crap that grown men throw around. Whatever happened to trying to lift others up.
 
I have to interject here that IMO the majority of the changes that have come in this profession since I started back 4 decades ago were initiated by the research and contact through caring by Dr. Alex Shigo. Let's hope we do not regress rather than progress now that he has passed.
 
How did he die, or why the irony? I don't know anything about the man, other than he was a student of trees.
 
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