Large operation's saw maintenance

woodworkingboy

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Can you guys offer up any information about how large private tree services, or government operations, where a lot of people are using saws, how they handle the maintenance. Are workers generally responsible for cleaning and maintaining the saws that they are using? What procedure seems to work the best? The person having used the saw, cleans the crud off at the end of the day, and whatever else to insure proper operation the following day? Is everyone owning their own saws, if possible, the best way to go?

The local government here has cut loose funds for logging large areas in and around the national park, and they have been putting together a program to do the work over the next five or six years. They are hiring people and giving inadequate training, and don't have a clear policy about saw responsibility and maintenance. People with limited experience are becoming overnight loggers. Trees are mostly relatively small, but a lot of injuries are resulting, and they just don't seem to have a clue about it.

I'm not directly involved in this fiasco, but I do know some people, and may have some participation in the future. I'm trying to tell them that they need a clear and encompassing approach to the saws equipment issue, both for safety, and for other practicality. Unfortunately, there are too many experts in decision making positions, who have limited practical experience themselves, and basically, don't know their azz from a hole in the ground, though they can talk up a storm. It's not atypical to see here, people get to a job site and the saws don't want to start, or they aren't sharp, etc.

I'm forming my own ideas about it, and any information on chainsaw policy, where a fairly large number of people are working under the auspices of one company or agency, would be helpful.

Thanks for any thoughts on the subject!

Jay
 
I'm not sure i follow.......but I'll go with what I THINK I am reading. Often times, but not always, when dealing with a big company, with lots of guys, and lots of saws, its an ugly scene. I mean that in terms of saw upkeep and responsibility. My situation that comes to mind was my brief line clearance days. Saws were a nightmare. Guys would beat the balls off em, run em dull, crack the plastics, then toss em back in the trucks at the end of the day. No one was ever directly responsible for sharpening, cleaning, or general upkeep. Each climber/bucket operator had a saw that they deemed their own but they would rob other guys saws of parts constantly. And saw wrenches were worth more than gold with that company because one could never find one. It was a nightmare. I'm done ranting. If my post wasnt even close to what you were getting at, just ignore it...it'll go away.
 
I can tell you that when in 1987 the USFS started a full on training and certification program requireing any employee that uses a chainsaw to attend a classroom/field practical based class each year for trainee and medium experience level cutters, every 2 years for journeyman level, the accident rate dropped like a stone.

The fire organization within the FS had done a better job of training than the general agency, and that's the basis for the training we provide today.

Maintenance gets short shrift in the training, unfortunately. Some instructors emphasize it, but it's not core to the program. Usually, again, the fire org. does a better job of this, out of need to be self-sufficient in the field.

So some saws get horrid maintenance, and some get good maintenance, it depends on the user.

I have just sort of taken over making sure normal annual things get done to the saws in my work group...filters changed, sprockets and bearings checked, bars dressed, you know the drill.

I don't make myself responsible for keeping chains sharp, or saws clean. I teach people how, and I let them suffer the consequences of not doing so themselves. Some people treat a saw provided by their employer like they paid for it themselves out of their own pocket...that's my way. But some don't. If the saws all come from a pool, so to speak, and no one feels responsible for an individual saw as it's sole or primary user, the saws do get treated like crap.
 
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Thanks Tucker.

Funny and sad... I'd like to know how the maintenance issue is looked at by companies...what works, what doesn't, as your horror story informs. Hopefully some better approaches will follow. What I get from your post, is that if saw policy is left up to the devices of the workers, it turns into a less than practical approach. That is exactly what is going on here.
 
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Good info, thanks Burnham, very interested to learn of the accident rate drop, as a result of the mandatory education. How many hours does the annual class comprise, for the trainee/intermediate, and the every two years one for the journeyman workers?
 
When I was working for a college, I found that it was really important to have a day devoted to cleaning and maintenance. If I had a bunch of employees, I would probably set it up so that sharpening and air filter cleaning is done daily and as needed on site, which means that the boss needs to let the employees know that it is important to STOP and sharpen the saws if needed. Then I would make sure that at least once a week or every other week, the saws are all taken apart and cleaned, bars trued, etc...

Setting aside a regular time for maintenance is smart, so nothing breaks in the field when it's important.
 
The biggest problem with hired help is that it's not their equiptment so they don't care.
 
I tend to become somewhat possessive of the tools I use at work, and care for them as if they were my own. This has been very beneficial to my employment.:);)
 
That's the way the boys on one of the city crews back home were, they got upset if anyone else used their saws.
 
I really think I've seen more saws meet an untimely demise from faulty worn out filters than any other reason . Geeze a filter is maybe 25 bucks tops .A rebuild can set you back 2-300 easy ,depending on the saw and model .
 
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I'm thinking that the people who treat the saws poorly, because they aren't their own, there is probably a bigger issue working....basically they aren't interested in the work, and don't plan to be in it for the long run. That may be an over generalization to a degree, could be just poor work habits that never got corrected. Maybe it would be better to say that the abusers aren't interested in saws, at least?

If not your own, I like the idea of a specific saw being assigned to an individual, if it's workable. At least it would be easy to tell who the abusers are that need to get educated.
 
Good info, thanks Burnham, very interested to learn of the accident rate drop, as a result of the mandatory education. How many hours does the annual class comprise, for the trainee/intermediate, and the every two years one for the journeyman workers?

In both cases the classroom segment is 7-8 hours and the field day is however long it takes for each sawyer to display required skills to the instructor to that instructor's satisfaction.

So I might have one cutter fall, limb, and buck 2 or 3 trees. Another cutter I might only feel the need to see them handle 1 tree. It's not hard to tell who has the skills and who needs work and additional instruction. We also can put restrictions on the certification...it's not uncommon to certify for bucking but not falling, though it's certainly open to argument that bucking can be every bit as challenging as falling. Some folks' jobs just don't have the need, and thus the experience in falling.

Depending on the overall class size, we might have more than one field day scheduled, but the students only are required to attend the one they are scheduled for...though I encourage as much participation as possible, because people can learn a lot by watching what others do. I can usually deal with 6 or 8 people in a field day without pushing hard.
 
The saws at the ski area for the most part have short lives filled with abuse , or "dissapear" .... the snowmakers however treat them with care resulting in long productive lives with less failure .... this is due to a strong leader over there ...
 
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Thanks for the input guys, and Burnham, for explaining the course arrangement, obviously a good set-up to have going, especially with the logging just starting up, and mostly limited experience people in the field. They definitely need something along those lines going here.

It's a funny thing about chainsaws, for some reason you get a lot of "experts", who really don't know jack. The depth of the subject seems vastly underestimated. One guy involved in the limited training, was telling me recently how he shows people to swing trees when falling, describing it like you press a button and it works every time. I looked at his saws from afar, they were all grunged up. I kept my mouth shut, of course :roll:. People like that are really an obstacle for setting something proper up. They are already involved, think they should be, and not easily eliminated, unless the local government shows some balls and intelligence, which is usually asking too much. The private sector here is so much better managed, in all aspects, but the work has become short.

A "good leader" and the saws stay in proper shape. That's what I'm thinking is required, in terms of a clear policy on the subject.
 
I have a rule of thumb....."you beat on my saws and i will beat on you". Any of the guys that work for me know that my saws are to be treated with great respect and care. other tools and vehicles get beat on from time to time and i try to discourage that but saw abuse is punishable by death. there are also about 3 saws that are not to be touched by anyone on the ground. They are kept sharp as razors and in perfect order for use in the tree. Nothing against groundmen, i just cant deal with a saw that bas been bucking limbs in the gravel or lawn, than sent up to me spur the moment.
 
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