Types of undercuts

Ok I mentioned this in another thread about wanting some discussion on the types of undercuts and why one would choose one over the other.

Humboldt- Is what I was taught in the bush and I find it's very effective for production work. Easy to get a flush butt that the buckerman likes but in actual fact isn't nearly as safe as a stepped butt espescially in a bush falling situation. The humboldt is also alot easier to slide your 'pie' out of as gravity wants to help you out. To me I see it's advantages as being for production work and since switching to residential work I find I never use it anymore. I though have really some limited knowledge of this undercut and would like to hear more about it and why it might be chosen over a traditional or a open face in a residential situation.

Traditional- Is what I use on a day to day basis now in residential work. I find it easier to cut a nice wide open face this way as (I hope I can describe this right) you start higher to make a larger face whereas with the humboldt you'd have to start lower to make a larger face. Higher puts me in a nicer position and seeing as how I'm not worried about stumpage rates I don't mind having a higher stump. I mostly will use a really large(anglewise) traditional face cut to keep my hinge intact as long as possible and relying on proper gunning to place my tree exactly rather than relying on any 'steering' during the backcut. Traditional has been my undercut of choice in residential work.

Open- I never use the open undercut never have I don't think maybe ever. I'd very much like to hear from those that do. To me it seems like it would be harder to get your cuts to line-up evenly/properly as consistently as with the traditional or humboldt.

Of course on any undercut I'm aiming for a 1/3 depth which would be altered depending on a number of things. Size of tree could come into play and of course lean. And I'm always aiming at having all of my cuts meet up evenly no bypass/dutchmen and a nice even backcut so I have a straight hinge.


I'm far from a highly experienced faller but I enjoy cutting and find it fascinating how much control you can gain by knowing a few of the basics.

Also angling the floor gets you more angle while cutting more against the grain, which is more efficent than trying to get 80* from just the top cut.

I'm not quite following you there Carl, could you expand a bit for some of the slower here like myself?

Making the top cut 40* and the bottom cut 30* is faster than one cut being 70*.

...I like a good open face myself.

Wagnaw said:

...I like a good open face myself.

Click to expand...

rarely needed though

Me too!

top hopper said:

rarely needed though

Click to expand...

I agree with that also.

That's a crazy underbed, I'd look pissed off too if I had to cut it.

You musta been bored that day.

i started with the humbolt also. i have migrated to conventional also for the most part. if im up in the tree i tend to use the humbolt alot as it seems easier and i back bar it alot. open face i rarely use and when i do i still make a level cut first, a botom cut second and a top cut last.

That was mainly for the picture.

With the 088 it wasn't that big of a deal.

But why?

45 degrees seems to be used here most situations70-80 seems excessive but im open to new info

I'm sure it's just the camera angle, but it looks like you cut about 80% into the tree.

MB, I only had a 1/2" rope with me, wanted to move the fulcrum back. Also figured it'd make a cool picture.

Not quite half way through it, Brett.

lumberjack said:

Also figured it'd make a cool picture.

Click to expand...

I can dig it!

That is a nice sized tree Carl. Oak? DBH?

For most things, anything over 30 degrees is a waste of time. Once it's committed, it's going.

NeTree said:

For most things, anything over 30 degrees is a waste of time. Once it's committed, it's going.

Click to expand...

Sorta like an Odarnit voter.

I only use a double angled wide face if I think the face I've put in is too small and just want to open it up more. It's seems easier to remove a bit off the bottom by angling up with the saw. I'll use it on a tree with excessive back lean as well. Normally I use a regular straight bottom cut and angle the top.

On occasion, I want every bit of the log for woodwork, or maybe want the butt to slide off the hinge and gain some distance, or when falling uphill and want to try and get a softer landing, then I'll use a Humboldt.

One thing I've been doing lately is leaving a gap at the hinge when the lay is narrow. It seems to give better holding quality. I find it's easier to put in a gap with the standard face.

I don't get what you mean by a gap in the hinge.

The point where the upper and lower face cuts meet isn't a sharp angle. It's a flat face done by nipping at the corner with the tip of the saw, or boring in from the side when you want a large gap on large trees. The hinge wood tends to fold better without breaking, though your species may vary.

Another great tip I learned from Jerry's text.

i'd have several uses. Mechanically it gives a wider sweep b4 close; especially without dutching.

Mostly, i'd use wideface for climbing, then some for felling even bucking. i'd use the wider sweep in climbing for rigging and hinging sideways especially. In felling, to give softer landing and less spring poles (may put one at trunk though!), especially if trying to crank or arm wrestle tree down (pulling with rope all the way / almost all the way down while tree fights on hinge), across or down hill etc.

Jamin, it was only about 5-5.5' DBH, red oak. You can see it's buttresses flared pretty good, the tip of the bar is resting on the far side of the notch's floor cut. 6' bar, fwiw.

Before:

Blimey! Was that tree growing near an unusual source of high radiation? Perhaps an old landfill under the house?