performance exhaust

[Greenhorn]

Wonder if performance aftermarket exhaust for popular saws would sell? I'm not talking about those huge expansion chamber jobs - just factory replacement that flows better. No other machines get their factory exhaust tampered with as much as saws.

I put extra flowmaster stickers on my stihl stuff in hopes that one day I might have a baby flow on my 200!

[squisher]

It would have to be comparable gains and relatively inexpensive I'd think.

[Skwerl]

I'm not sure there would be much of a market. Those who understand small engines enough to appreciate the need for more airflow are fully capable of drilling a couple holes in the muffler and adjusting the carb. Those who aren't comfortable doing that are the same ones who won't buy an aftermarket exhaust if it "voids the warranty". Your only market will be the tiny number of people in between.

[Al Smith]

There are so many people attempting to sell modified exhausts at the present time I don't think there is room for any more.

Generally speaking most people who know anything about saws and use them on a day to day bassis have at least done some modifications themselves if only to remove the muffler screen.

[fallguy1960]

So is there any information or diagrams of what you are doing to the mufflers? I have a 51 husky that could use a little uumff. I also have a toy Poulan that needs help.

[GASoline71]

Stihl already makes the facory dual-port mufflers for the 046/460 and the 066/660. The one for the 046/460 will also fit the 044/440.

You can order them right at your local Stihl dealer.

The other saw brands I'm not sure about.

Gary

[fishhuntcutwood]

I'm not sure there would be much of a market. Those who understand small engines enough to appreciate the need for more airflow are fully capable of drilling a couple holes in the muffler and adjusting the carb. Those who aren't comfortable doing that are the same ones who won't buy an aftermarket exhaust if it "voids the warranty". Your only market will be the tiny number of people in between.

True dat. And there's a couple of outfits that already sell off-the-shelf muffler swaps; Walker's coming to mind.

[fishhuntcutwood]

So is there any information or diagrams of what you are doing to the mufflers? I have a 51 husky that could use a little uumff. I also have a toy Poulan that needs help.

I think I started at thread here about modding a 361 muffler, pic included. Try a quick search of the site, and you'll see discussion about opening various mufflers. Not much to it beyond some very basic metal work. Got a drill and a file?

[Greenhorn]

I think they'd be as popular as 2 chamber flows were on 5 liter stangs!

Just kidding. If the price was right and you could prove gains they might sell enough to pay for the fabrication. If they looked cool though......

[fishhuntcutwood]

If you can fab, sell and profit selling them at $30, because that's what a dual port front cover for a Stihl costs. I think Walker's sells ported mufflers for $40-$50 last time I checked.

Like Brian said though, most pros and those of us that mess with our saws, do it on our own with a drill and some basic metal bending.

You'd be selling to the guys that know they want a faster saw, but don't know how to do it themselves. These are the guys that, because they don't know what they're doing will cook a saw with an opened muffler.

But if I'm not mistaken, alot of tree guys aren't necessarily "saw" guys. They run saws for work, and that's about as far as it goes. Notable exceptions being Brian and Roger.

What do you have in mind? Porting stock mufflers, or building a muffler from the ground up?

[fallguy1960]

No luck finding that thread on the muffler modification for the 361. Maybe next week when my boy gets home we can figure it out he took small engine class in school.

[rumination]

I'm one of the professed minority that wants a faster saw but has next to no metal working skills. I might buy a modded muffler for thirty or forty bucks. I didn't realize that there are outfits that sold such things.

[squisher]

Once you crossover there's no turning back Leon. I had a 361 and a 660 professionally woods modded :|: There's no going back.

Unbeleivable difference.

[rumination]

I'll get around to it one of these days, I'm sure. I've been thinking about sending my Husky 359 (don't laugh) to Ed Heard when I get back to the states. I hear a woods mod will perk that saw up fairly nicely.

[Skwerl]

It's as simple as making the muffler outlet hole almost as big as the exhaust port on the jug. Either make the original hole bigger or add a second hole. Then adjust the carb a little bit richer to compensate for the increased airflow. That's it, it's just that simple. Anybody can do it in 15 minutes. If you think there's more to it, then you're overcomplicating matters.

Now the woods porting is another matter altogether. That's the next big step up for even bigger gains. Well worth the $250 per saw cost IMO.

[squisher]

Heh I wouldn't laugh at no baby Husky wood eye?:D

Jk'ing that's who did my saws and I've probaby only got seven or eight tanks through the 361 and half a dozen through the 660 they're unbeleivable.

[rumination]

Brian, you underestimate my mechanical ineptitude.


I suppose that does sound doable, though. The 359 muffler has all sorts of baffles inside that should probably be cleaned out. How do you crack the muffler in half?

[GASoline71]

Muffler modded MS361... uses a Stihl TS400 cut-off saw spark screen...

It was done by a buddy of mine in Woodinville, WA...

Gary

[BostonBull]

ScottWojo makes a killing with these on Ebay.

Great idea but you may be a bit late to the table.

Try it and see how you do?

[fishhuntcutwood]

Muffler modded MS361... uses a Stihl TS400 cut-off saw spark screen...

It was done by a buddy of mine in Woodinville, WA...

Gary

I really like Andy's job. I'd have him do mine, if I hadn't already done mine.


No luck finding that thread on the muffler modification for the 361. Maybe next week when my boy gets home we can figure it out he took small engine class in school.

Yeah, that thread must be in the old House, and not here. But here's some pics-

I just drilled out the front (then vaccumed out the leftovers from inside of course), and riveted my 200T spark arrestor to the front of it.

And then a pic of a factory dual port front cover, which I also open up the hole on it, and the back half of the muffler as well. I'd say I probably add 30% to each hole, and that brings them both back in line to what they were back pre EPA. The one in the pic is before I opened the stock hole. It's bigger now, but still has the stock spark arrestor, and doesn't look like a hole you could park a boat in.

The 660 dual port cover is fine as it is IMO. I leave it alone.

[Al Smith]

Well,it's debatable weather to go the full cubic inch area of the exhaust port or ,like myself,about 85 percent. However I won't argue the point but will say this,if all you do is remove the screen and do nothing else you will normally see some gains in power . If you remove the internal baffles as well the gains will be higher.Hog one out to 85 percent or higher,hang on Sloopy.

A muffler tweek is the easiest way and cheapest to gain essentually free horse power. Don't go overboard though because that muffler is also needed in the system for the engine to work properly .There has to be about a zillion threads on about every forum on the net of how-to.

[fallguy1960]

Thanks for the input and pictures this will help. Now it looks like me and the kid have a project.

[GASoline71]

Cool fallguy! Let us know how it turns out! :)

Gary

[JIML]

Im worked on another new to me 660 today, its getting porting/piston work too. I added the dual port cover, enlarged the factory single port and added a third port on the other side. I spent part of the day building an arbor to mount the cylinder in my lathe so I can cut the base down.

[hugashe]

just put mod on my new 361. wow is all i have to say. :D

[Greenhorn]

Right on! Thats look good, will you make me one?:D

[hugashe]

if you can cut a hole. braze and tune your saw. then you can do it. thats was my first time. and it is not hard to do.

[squisher]

Looks real good! Just like the one on my 361 that I bought off Gary the Gasman, also known as sasquatch man!

[Skwerl]

The Huskys are even easier. Many of them have a bracket across the front of the muffler to hold it in place. You can just cut a hole in the bracket and a matching hole in the muffler, then sandwich a screen in between. It even looks 'factory' to someone who may not be familiar with Huskys.

[GASoline71]

Looks real good! Just like the one on my 361 that I bought off Gary the Gasman, also known as sasquatch man!

How has that 361 been doin' for ya Justin... I'm glad you like it?

Gary

[Blinky]

OK, I confess to not being a saw guy... I like saws and 2 stroke engines but I don't like to work on them cuz I screw'em up.
...so I never touched my 200T even though I knew about the screen thing. I couldn't figure out where the hell the screen was.

It hadn't been running so great lately so I took it to the shop. They have an old timer Stihl mech there who'd never seen a climbing saw, but he homed right in on the exhaust after I ran it at full throttle for him... took the whole damn muffler out and apart before he found the screen... and how simple it would've been to just turn that one screw and pull it out.
That saw kicks ass now that the screen is out so I'm looking to get a modded muffler for the 440. Would the 460 dual port be the way to go? Wanna make me a deal Greenhorn?

[hugashe]

i wont to do my 346xp an my 200 t. but i need info on size an stuff before i do it.

[Skwerl]

On the 200T, simply pulling out the screen insert works quite well. I've pulled a couple mufflers apart and wallered them out further but it didn't make much difference except for noise.

I don't have a 346 here at the house to show you but here's a picture of a 372. I actually just replaced this screen last week because the old one finally disintegrated. This will give you an idea on how to make the hole in the muffler and bracket. This one is rather big and the bracket is trimmed kind of thin around the edges. You don't have to go this big. Leave a quarter inch at the top and bottom in order to sandwich the screen.

[hugashe]

thanks skwerl. just need to find some bigger dogs for that 361 now?

[Al Smith]

That little pipe my look cool but it wont make it preform any better than just an enlarged hole .Whatever floats your boat though .;)

[MasterBlaster]

But like you said, it looks cool!

[hugashe]

the pipe is so i can put the cone screen in.

[Ax-Man]

What Al said is true, but and this is just my opinion for what it is worth, that for a 361, 46's and 66's it is the smarter way to mod a muffler or any other Sthil with those side exiting up in the corner mufflers by the chainbrake. Enlarging the holes lets more heat out in this area that could over time weaken or break a chainbrake handle. I had this happen to a stock 66. I blame the prolem on the exhaust being so close to the chainbrake handle. I know there is a baffle or sheild over the exhaust outlet to direct the exhaust forward put to me it is kind of a lame design to me anyway.

Now I just recently did muffler modded our 361 not because I wanted more performance but because it just seemed to be running way too lean for my taste and it has always been one of those fussy starting saws even after it got warmed up.

When it finally needed a bar, chain and sprocket. I finally got into the muffler. I didn't have time for cutting and brazing in a second exhaust port due to time limitations and the muffler didn't look like it could take the heat from brazing. I modded the muffler the hard way by uncrimping the two halves. Took out some of the baffling,for a little better flow and some other modifications that I have forgotten and enlarged the exhaust hole against my better judgement but wanted to see if a muffler mod would improve the starting problem and get the rpm's down a little at WOT.

After the muffler mod I took the limiters off the carb. Very pleased with the results. The 361 is now much easier to start even better after it gets warmed and sits awhile. 1 pull gets it going after it warms up and the saw is running where I like it to hear it with a little more power but is not overly loud but still has that throaty muffler modded sound to it.

If and when I might have to do this muffler mod over. I would do it the same way as Gary and Hug did it but not quite so large on the diameter of the second exhaust port just a tad smaller on the ID again this is just my opinion.

[GASoline71]

thanks skwerl. just need to find some bigger dogs for that 361 now?

Here is the part number for a dual dog kit that has a ceramic roller at the bottom. The dogs aren't huge, but they are bigger than the wimpy stock single dog.

Stihl part# 1135 650 7750

Ask Squishy how it works... they are on the saw I sold him.

Gary

[hugashe]

Here is the part number for a dual dog kit that has a ceramic roller at the bottom. The dogs aren't huge, but they are bigger than the wimpy stock single dog.

Stihl part# 1135 650 7750

Ask Squishy how it works... they are on the saw I sold him.

Gary

thanks for that. i can order them now 8)

[squisher]

They're just like Gary said not huge but much, much nicer than stock.

[Burnham]

I'll chime in too, I am much happier with the paired dogs Gary turned me on to, beats the stock dog by a mile.

[brendonv]

I had them before I bought my 361. Regretfully I gave them to my buddy because the saw wasn't in my budget. They are definitely a nice addition, and my saw shop actually ordered them for me the other day.

[Dave Shepard]

I guess this is probably the best place for this question, rather than another "muffler" thread.

Does the 036 respond as well to a muffler mod as the 361? I hogged out the exhaust hole a little on mine. I drilled a 1/2" hole next to the stock, which is probably around 3/8", and cleaned up in between them. The exhaust port on the cylinder is .75"x1.125", should I go bigger, say the 85% Al suggested earlier? My saw shop wouldn't set the RPMs for me, but did put the tach on it, it's now15,500. I've got a TT20K tach on the way. Thanks for any input.


I put 066 dogs on my 036. The outboard one sticks out a little, I think if I redrill it, it will be even with the other. Way better looking than the stock dual dogs, which my dealer said wasn't available when I bough the 036. :what:

[wll]

here is my job. loud and cool:O

[Dave Shepard]

"Old Al" is gonna have a freakin' stroke when he see's that.:P















:)

[Al Smith]

here is my job. loud and cool:O The question is ,how does it work ? Looks like a good way to blow sawdust all over the place besides cook the operator .

A pressure can is a type of check valve in reality not just a muffler .Loudness has little to do with how a saw preforms .If that were the case I have an 87 cc McCulloch that will wake the dead and it has an unaltered baffled muffler .

The problem is if you get too large of a exit hole you stand the chance of over riding the carb .In other words creating such a negative pull on the exhaust that it sucks out more fuel than the carb can produce thus causing the possibility of a lean seizure .

If good old Zander were still on here he could testify to that very fact ,I warned him but he didn't listen ,cooked an 088 .A sad day that was ,I'm sure .:(

[wll]

no probs so far its bin used hard fer about 6 mons. its ben re jetted and ported with a big bore

[Al Smith]

Good heavens take that thing down before Wojo sees it .Don't give him any ideas .Good heavens he will be sticking 6 little pipes out like a porcupine .:)

[wll]

next saw'z gonna be a stroker

[wll]

im thinking 66 with an 88 top end and a big carb ta mach. it will work but may take some time and money to get her right

[Al Smith]

That is an understatement . The word may should be substituted with will ,no doubt about that what so ever .:)

[Tzed250]

im thinking 66 with an 88 top end and a big carb ta mach. it will work but may take some time and money to get her right

Not enough base volume...

[wll]

Not enough base volume...a base plate would need to b made this my be outa my league. and just has me thinking and tinkern