Beeline

[jtrouse]

I know there is an old thread still open on beeline but i wasnt able to view it for some reason.
Whats the best length of bury after the 2 locking brummels has been done?

Should i taper it and if so whats the recommended way that is going to be safe enough.

[Blinky]

It depends on the diameter. 8mm and 10mm are two completely different constructions.

8mm single eye I think you do the LB and bury a full fid, about 6" to 7". For 8mm eye-eye split tails I do full buries and cross the tapers so the whole split-tail is a single diameter. Sew the jacket down and dip the exposed eye in something like Dip-It or Maxijacket to keep the Vectran from picking.


10mm Beeline is double braid so you don't do the locked Brummel, you do a double braid eye splice. Whether it's class 1 or class 2 I can't tell you, the core is class 1 fiber and the jacket is a blend of class 1 & 2 fibers. I've not actually done one so I can't tell you anymore about it.

[NickfromWI]

10mm Beeline should be spliced as Class I double braid using Yale's industrial polyester double braid splice.

8mm, you can bury a shorter tail on the splice. I do about 3" on my personal splices, and about 5-6" on splices for other people.

Blinky- do you like having the rope stiffer? Does it work nicely as a prusik cord that way?

love
nick

[jtrouse]

nick do you taper the 5-6" taper?
also if i do a 3" bury is 2 locks still sufficent??

[Blinky]

[...]

Blinky- do you like having the rope stiffer? Does it work nicely as a prusik cord that way?

love
nick

Truth is, I can't recall. The only 8mm Beeline I did was about the same time I discovered HRC. My BL prusiks are relegated to my 5:1 and 3:1 rigs. I use HRC for my split tail and lanyard adjusters.

[jtrouse]

Is there an easier way to cut the beeline 8mm?? I've been using industrial hardware scissors about 7 bucks to buy and just throwing them out. find they only last about 3-4 cuts then completly blunt.

[rumination]

I hear tell ceramic knives work very well.

[NickfromWI]

Leon hit that one right. A decent ceramic knife will run you at least $25 or $35. I bought mine about 1.5 years ago and have cut tons of beeline and HRC and a few other things with it and it shows no signs of dulling yet.

If you don't like that idea, get a regular utility knife with replaceable razor blades as the cutting edge. That will be way cheaper than the $7 option you are using now.

love
nick

[jtrouse]

nick i followed the directions from yale for splcing a pulley in the end but in inverted it thinking it was done like that also will this still be safe to use??

the invert was from brion toss article in sail 2001. finished with a 3" barber taper. i emailed you the powerpoint a while ago.

[rumination]

What's a barber taper?

[NickfromWI]

A barber taper is when you just fan out the last couple three inches and cut it off at a 45* angle.

jtrouse- you have to have enough buried inside the rope to make sure it will hold the tail together if it gets pulled on hard. 3" could be fine, depending on how you tapered it. Post a pic!

love
nick

ps- FWIW I think the yale directions call for a 6" bury.

[jamie]

Whoa this is confusing, two Jamies on this forum, i'm a simple guy who can't take confusion

Jamie

[NickfromWI]

WOOPS!!! I'll go fix that. That question was directed at jtrouse.

Sorry Jamie!

love
nick

[jtrouse]

well i followed the brion toss directions but instead of pulling the eye through the hole that was inverted i pulled the tail through to splice a pulley onto it.

My taper i did a barber at about 6" and cut off 2 1/2".

[NickfromWI]

jtrouse- I'm still not clear on what your tapered tail is looking like. Are you saying the tail overall is 8 1/2" long, with the last 2 1/2 inches tapered/barbered? That leaves 6" still intact?

A pic or diagram would be nice.

love
nick

[jtrouse]

ive been trying to get the camera to focus but am having issues with it. Sorry nick what i mean is the finished tapered tail has been done using a barber taper that i cut on a 45 * starting at 3.5 inches and cutting to the end of it.
My question also was whether ive done the lb correcly i can email you that power point again.

I used brion toss instructions but instead of passing the eye through the inverted bit i passed the tail through the inverted hole and then did the tapered tail finish length of 3.5 inches.

Sorry if its not very clear ill try to get this camera to focus.

Thanks heaps nick.

[lumberjack]

Try standing back and zooming in, that typically helps.

[jtrouse]

here some pics got it to focus.

Thanks

[NickfromWI]

Jim- A few issues with your photos (nice photos, by the way).

First- the amount of your taper seems fine. Shorter than what yale recommends, but longer than what I do on my splices.

For your locked brummel, if you are doing the standard lock brummel where the tail goes through the standing end, then the stand end passes through the tail, then you shouldn't do the inverting trick that Toss shows for the Mobius Brummel. In the Mobius Brummel, you invert the tail, but then pass the eye through it which un-inverts it. In the picture you have shown here, there seems to be a part of the tail that is still inverted. It might be my eyes fooling me. If that is not the case, than ignore this confusing paragraph.

Finally, and more importantly- I personally would not climb with that rope spliced around the sharp edges of that pulley.

love
nick

[jtrouse]

thanks heaps for that nick that was what i was trying to work out. if i wanted to have it setup like this should i put some of the cover in the eye??

yes it was still inverted when i did it

[jtrouse]

here is what it looks like from the other ones ive spliced. i hope its right!!!

thanks heaps.

[NickfromWI]

those are still inverted and they shouldn't be. All you need to
do is pass the tail through the standing part, then standing part through the tail, then bury it. You're combining steps from two different sets of directions
here. It is leaving the finished product distorted and no doubt, weaker.

love
nick

[jtrouse]

I used the directions from sail magazine, where you form the eye invert the tail then pass the eye through the invertion that was just created and then bury the tail. I've interpreted that correctly havent i??

[NickfromWI]

To the eyes of anyone checking out this thread, which of the following two splices seem more like the one Jim just posted.

(I do recognize that this post could be taken with a very condescending tone. I do not intend it to be this way. I think this could turn to a great learning opportunity for Jim, or maybe me! So please, I post this with the best of intentions)...

Here are two photos of the same 2 splices. The top splice in each photo is the one with the bigger eye and was spliced one way. The bottom splice was spliced in a similar, but different manner. So- which is more like Jim's? Top or bottom?

love
nick

[jtrouse]

id have to say the top splice is more like mine.

[Blinky]

The top splice (Nicks) still has the inversion. I don't use that method so I don't remember how it gets worked out.

I think the reason for that method is so you don't have to pass a long standing end through. With short pieces like split-tails and prusiks, you don't need to do it that way.

[sotc]

ive never done that splice but i agree, top

[NickfromWI]

Cool- I'm glad we're all seeing this the same way.

In the bottom splice, I did a standard locking brummel. The tail goes through the standing end, the standing end goes through the tail, then bury the tail. No inverting or anything. This is the way the locking brummell

To make the top splice, I passed the tail through the standing part. Then I passed the tip of the tail through the tail itself. This doesn't form a lock, it just leaves you with a half formed eye and a messed up tail (sounds like a lady you hook up with after a few too many drinks). Now normally, I'd pass the eye through this messed up inverted tail. In doing so, the tail would un-invert and end up looking just like the bottom splice again. In the splice here, I passed the standing end through the inverted tail, then buried the tail. In the pic, the eye has been formed, but the tail never got un-inverted.

Jim- there is a couple ways your splice could have ended up this way.

One- you could be doing as I just described here, switching between directions inadvertently.

Two- you could be inverting the eye the wrong way. I invert mine from the top down. This fixes itself when the eye passes through. If you invert from the bottom up, you would end up with a doubly inverted tail. As Paris Hilton would say- that's hot.

Three- you could be skipping the initial inversion, then when you pass the eye through the tail, instead of uninverting, you're inverting.

Four- the final possibility I can see is goblins. When you are not looking, and after you have completed the splice, they come along and reweave the rope in the wrong manner.

Play around with it a bit. I think you'll get it figured out after some trial and error. I hope you'll report back on what you find. I'm interested to know if the prob is being caused by one of the 4 choices I thought of here, or is there something else causing it that I can't see.

Keep the pics flowing- it helps a lot!

love
nick

[jtrouse]

when ive done the brummel before i did it from the bottom up to invert it so this is probably why it turned out this way, ill have a go with it on the weekend. ill let you know how it goes and posts some pics up.

Would you say that the ones ive done are safe to climb off?? or should i just toss them out or try and redo them

[NickfromWI]

If I didn't have a way of break testing them to find out what I was dealing with, I'd just toss them.

I feel like a psychiatrist that just had a major breakthrough with a patient. We're just made a huge step to getting the issue solved!

love
nick

[Blinky]

Ya know, with stuff that's not 100' long or something, you don't have to invert at all; just Standing part through, tail through, taper and bury.

[NickfromWI]

That's the easiest way, when it is possible. The way I splice beeline/hrc, I don't take the cover completely off the core, so it's easier to do this mobius style locking brummel.

If the rope is very firm, I sure don't mind pulling 100' of rope through to form a good splice, though!

love
nick

Blinky- that avatar would be more appropriate if it was a .gif that blinked every now and then!

[jtrouse]

Well now i fell like an idiot!! That picture was the only one i stuffed up in the end. i un tied the whiplock and had a lock at all the ones i had done and they were not in correct id done the properly thought i had except for that one i posted up. Thanks heaps guys for the comments made me think how have i done it??

[NickfromWI]

This is fun. We are all getting the chance to learn together.

It's good that you took the others apart to look at them. Now you KNOW what you are climbing on.

love
nick