ascenders----

[olyman]

ok--i just got email from da man. Seen a "ascender" in his pic. So--went to fleabay to look them up. Both gibbs, and petzel. Now tell me tree climbers. which????? And why???

[NickfromWI]

Depends what you're doing. What's the application?

I like my ISC ascenders!

love
nick

[MasterBlaster]

I use my Gibbs on my lanyard.

[Blinky]

The Gibbs has no handle, it's designed to be tethered or hitched to the load. They're usually advanced by the load lifting up on the attachment ring. I don't think any of the Gibbs devices have sharp little teeth in the cams.

Petzl makes a million different rope grabbing devices, I assume you mean the Petzl Ascension which comes in right and left hand versions. They're generally used in pairs. They are also tethered to the load but they're advanced by the handles.

There are lots of handled ascenders like ISC, CMI, Kong, etc. Ascenders and rope grabs have lots of different applications.

The ones you select totally depends on what you plan to use them for. If you want to climb a rope, look into handled ascenders.

[olyman]

blink--arent sharp little teeth mighty hard on the rope???? i just seen Butchs in that one pic-,and thought it was the schnitz!!! the way i was doing it sucked.

[Greenhorn]

kinda of a derail but anybody doing secured footlock using an ascender?

[MasterBlaster]

Here's a couple of good shots. :drink:

[Bodean]

Here's my gibbs.

[Bodean]

kinda of a derail but anybody doing secured footlock using an ascender?

My buddy Ed at work uses one, he loves it.

I still beat him with a prussic cord though, ha. :)

He doesn't like the extra effort to push the prussic up.
If the knot is some what set/tight.
He says the double grab cam ascender is way better.



When I think ascenders, I think SRT and redwoods.

[NickfromWI]

I didn't like the 2-cammed ascenders. I used one for a while (i think it was called the footlocker) and it was too clunky and it didn't seem to be doing anything that the prusik was doing except being heavier, swinging around on my harness while not in use, and requiring the use of another carabiner.

I like my classic rope footlock prusik, personally.

love
nick

[Bodean]

Nick I use the prussic as well.
I just trust it more than a cam.

Are you still making those beeline eye spliced jobbers for footlocking?

[olyman]

no answer to my question about the teeth hard on rope???????????

[Skwerl]

olyman, the answer is "yes and no". It depends on how you use them. And also on which ascender you use, some are better than others.

[MasterBlaster]

Good answer!

[olyman]

skwerl, alas, i have no experience with the ascenders. Prior to seeing Butchs, i was ignorant. So someone eggsplain the diff brands, and the diff yes and nos. Whole diff world for me, of which i have no knowledge. How else to find out, as theres no one in this area i have ever seen climb a tree with ropes. Its all buckets and crane. Some of you have years of experience with these, i have none. Oly

[Blinky]

Go to a tree climbing comp and you'll see all sorts of ascenders being used all sorts of ways, especially in the aerial rescue. You can get some good ideas. Plus, it's usually a good party.

[olyman]

Blinky, thats fine, but have never heard of such, and dont know how to find out?????? Like i said, i went up the trees with ladder, then had rope around waist, and spikes to climb. And they werent even tree spikes!!!!! Yickes!!!! But i got er done!!!!

[rumination]

The Gibbs ascender, and other similar types, like what MB has on his lanyard are used in the arbor world mainly for lanyard adjusters. Other types of ascenders (hand ascenders, chest ascenders, foot ascenders) are mainly used for climbing rope, and mostly single rope at that. That's a general start.

[olyman]

rumination--some lights just went off---more understand now. But still have the question about the "teeth" part damaging ropes.

[rumination]

OK. The ascenders like the Gibbs that MB uses on his lanyard have ridges instead of teeth and don't to do much damage to the rope at all. Other types of ascenders have small teeth on the cams. Depending on the shape of the teeth and the type of rope you have, extended use will show some wear and picking of the rope fibers. However, in most circumstances in tree work it is not something you necessarily need to worry about that much.

It is important to understand how each type of ascender works and what the safe use limitations are before getting up a rope with them.

[Blinky]

olyman, I sent you a PM.

[Skwerl]

I always assumed that the ascender manufacturers intentionally designed the teeth on their ascenders to cut through the rope so that anybody who uses them will fall and die. Why would they do otherwise?
:|:

[olyman]

ho ho ho!!

[OTGBOSTON]

I didn't like the 2-cammed ascenders. I used one for a while (i think it was called the footlocker) and it was too clunky and it didn't seem to be doing anything that the prusik was doing except being heavier, swinging around on my harness while not in use, and requiring the use of another carabiner.

I like my classic rope footlock prusik, personally.

love
nick


One thing it will do that a prussic won't is allow you to body thrust by pulling down on one side of the rope. Comes in handy if you are going to be close to the trunk at any point during your ascent. Learnt that one from House Tain and havent gone back to the trusty prussic since.

FWIW I dont need a 'biner to use it either. I girth hitch it onto my swivel.

these pics were at a rec climb with lots of people in the tree, lots of bumping around and such. in this case I used one cam above my friction hitch, If I wanted to go down I just had to hold the cam open and slide the device into the top of the hitch. Redundant I know

[inztrees]

nice setup and nice shirt

[xtremetrees]

I use a Gibbs in conjunction with a steel core but after my 3rd steel core has wore out I will be flipping with rope soon. For climbing the ropes I use a 2 wrap prussic knot. The petzl shunt replaced the prussic knot a few years ago, Or should I say its a mechanical version of what a knot will do. I believe the gibbs will cut a rope into at 2000 lbs pressure but dont quote me on that.200 lb man falls 10 feet =2000lbs? I believe the rope grabbing teeth doesnt cause enough damage to worry about. However if one was employed into a safety and was constantly adjusted for tree size day in and day out the teeth would considerably wear a rope in the same spot. I don't think ascenders were manufactured for this purpose (IE for use as a safety).
For climbs over 80 feet, mechanical rope grab devices are to efficient not to use.But I'm hard headed and somewhat oldschool probably wont ever buy them.

[NickfromWI]

Bodean, yep, I still make them....

love
nick

[Wagnaw]

That's a sweet beech tree OTG!! I love climbing beeches. The woods at home back in Maryland is full of them.

[MasterBlaster]

We don't have them down here. :(

[Hobby Climber]

.

[Bounce]

The toothed cam ascenders work on an entirely different principle than the ribbed cam ones do. On toothed ascenders, the load is connected to the frame. They rely on the teeth to keep the cam in contact with the rope. These are best for climbing rope as in the SRT and should not be used to adjust a lanyard. On ribbed cam ascenders (like the Gibbs) the load is attached to the cam instead of the frame. This is a more reliable design because a falling twig that slides down your rope can't knock out the cam, but they don't make them with handles. Ribbed cam ascenders can be used to climb rope with, but they work better as flipline adjusters.

The teeth will not damage your rope unless (1) you take a shock-loaded fall on it (in which case it could cut your rope like a pair of scissors) or (2) you try to remove it from the rope while sliding it down at the same time.

[OTGBOSTON]

That's a sweet beech tree OTG!! I love climbing beeches. The woods at home back in Maryland is full of them.

I love 'em too, this tree in particular is great for new climbers

[Frans]

The teeth will not damage your rope unless (1) you take a shock-loaded fall on it (in which case it could cut your rope like a pair of scissors)

Under failure tests the toothed cams grab the outer cover, not penetrating into the core of the rope.
Either way, the rope is compromised so it is always a good idea to have a back up system.

Rope rescue mandates a two rope system but we as tree climbers should have two separate systems in tandem on the ascent line.

[Bounce]

Geez, I can only imagine what it must be like to climb in something besides a doug fir, western red cedar, or western hemlock. I remember getting all excited once last year when I got into a big leaf maple. Those beech trees look like they were made for climbing in! I bet you can limb walk for 30 ft in one of those! I'm jealous.

[olyman]

bounce--THANKS.!!! explains the diff in the ascenders--that helped me immensly to know what to buy.

[NickfromWI]

And then there's these ascenders...

http://www.climbandmore.com/upload/Image/business%20news/BDnForce.jpg

...that kinda make you think a little different about how an ascender should work...

love
nick

[olyman]

ok, Nick. now explain them the way Bounce did--rem, greenhorn here.

[olyman]

uh,King of splices. Need a response. thanks

[JonnyHart]

You should get this book.

http://www.wesspur.com/Books/tree-climbers-companion.html

[olyman]

thanks john--learning--

[olyman]

and--got a gibbs off of fleabay--another piece to climb trees safely--thanks all,oly

[Banned by Squirrels]

I like my Kong...

The Monkey Pod's in the tropics are a great climbing tree as well.