A new winch line to consider... Unitrex

[NickfromWI]

Okay, a couple weeks ago I alluded to a new winch line. I finally have the data sheet for Unitrex, by Yale Cordage. It is a triple braid with a NON braided dyneema/spectra core (like what Amsteel, black widow, etc are made of), a neoprene layer, then a suuuuper tight polyester cover over that, The whole rope is then coated with a urethane coating that is like the Maxijacket coating on steroids.

I can't upload a pdf, so I cut it in half and am loading it as picture files.

love
nick

[vharrison]

Looks like a great option!

[NickfromWI]

To my knowledge, this thread is the first place this rope has been mentioned in the arb-world!

love
nck

[lumberjack]

I'm guessing that having the non braided core realllly helps with the tensile strength?

Is it spliceable? I'd assume so considering it's probably knot knotable.

[sotc]

prices yet?

[NickfromWI]

I'm getting the prices...it might be a few days until that gets worked out. I'll report back as soon as I know.

Yes, it is spliceable. A sample is being sent to me so I will be able to more accurately address the knotability issue.

And lj, you're right- the parallel core really pushes the strength up, much like the core of Sta-Set X, if you are familiar with that rope.

love
nick

[lumberjack]

Indeed I am :)

1/2" rope showing 12klbs improvement over my validator.


What's their main market for it? Ships?

[Frans]

If the average logger/rock crawler/tree guy, etc. can splice it, AND it withstands the rigors of winch use, then it just might be a winner!

[NickfromWI]

I'm working on the spliceability part. The directions for it are different than what we are used to doing. I'll give it a shot in a few weeks here and I'll be able to tell if it is a do-able shot for the average tree guy.

For reference point, and you guys can tell me if you disagree, I consider the single braid splices (locked or non locked brummell) to be do-able by anyone who is willing to put a tiny bit of brain to it, and any tree guy could get it done if it was work related. The double-braid, in my opinion, takes too much practice and nit-picky measuring for the average tree guy to figure out.

Is that a fair assessment?

love
nick

[rumination]

Is it the same splice as Sta Set X?

[rich_h]

I'm working on the spliceability part. The directions for it are different than what we are used to doing. I'll give it a shot in a few weeks here and I'll be able to tell if it is a do-able shot for the average tree guy.

For reference point, and you guys can tell me if you disagree, I consider the single braid splices (locked or non locked brummell) to be do-able by anyone who is willing to put a tiny bit of brain to it, and any tree guy could get it done if it was work related. The double-braid, in my opinion, takes too much practice and nit-picky measuring for the average tree guy to figure out.

Is that a fair assessment?

love
nick


I think you may be selling the average tree guy a bit short on this assessment. Consider this analagy:

The average tree guy sees a SRT set up for the first time ,either online, or in the field and he goes sort of cross eyed and does what he can to wrap his mind around what is going on, but it is completely foreign to what he or she is normally doing using gear they have never seen before and therefore they get totally confused.

You take that same tree guy and sit them down with someone who knows the ins and outs of SRT and in a short or shortish period of time they not only understand what is going on and how to set it up but also what the comparative advantages/disadvantages would be.

Also, once the tree guy has a better understanding of SRT and can set it up and use it by
themselves if they want they may still never set it up or use it because they still are not quite comfortable with the drastic change from their normal climbing set up.


I think the key to understanding the double braid splice is working with someone who is comfortable with it to take away some of the fear of the unknown. Splicing is a little scary for some people, but with time and a little instruction I think just about everyone could get the hang of it.

[lumberjack]

I'd agree that the single braid splice is easy enough for (nearly) anyone.

Cobra cabling requires it, never heard it brought up as a negative of the product.

Double braid was fairly easy for me in looser braids, climbing lines in general are a PITA for myself.

[NickfromWI]

Rich, you are spot on in your analogy. However, the average tree guy (not the average online treeguy) but the average treeguy doesn't have someone there that can really show them how and why to climb SRT, or do a splice.

That's where I was going with the splicing thing. Hand the average tree guy a coat-hanger fid, sharpie, scissors, ruler, and good instructions and they'll get a pretty good single braid splice in just a few tries. Double braid gets given up on much more often.

Just a thought.

Oh, the splice for this rope is not like sta-set X. There's no burying, no tucking...only wrapping!!! I think it'll be easy enough with not a lot of meticulous measuring...but I wanna see for myself before I say for sure.

love
nick

[lumberjack]

Similar to steel cable?

[rich_h]

Rich, you are spot on in your analogy. However, the average tree guy (not the average online treeguy) but the average treeguy doesn't have someone there that can really show them how and why to climb SRT, or do a splice.

That's where I was going with the splicing thing. Hand the average tree guy a coat-hanger fid, sharpie, scissors, ruler, and good instructions and they'll get a pretty good single braid splice in just a few tries. Double braid gets given up on much more often.

Just a thought.


love
nick


Looking at it that way you have a great point. It would be pretty easy to get frustrated and completely give up if all you had were the tools and instructions with no guidance.

Maybe the manufacturers should post links to sites like this along with their instructions in order to help the beginning splicer along a bit. I have no doubt that your advice and help has taken years off of a bunch of splicers learning curves. Not to mention making smoother and better end products.

[GASoline71]

I am seriously considering changing out the 3/8" steel cable on my 10,000 lb. truck winch with something like this.

I know that if a steel winch cable is not properly spooled tightly on the spool, it will "bury" itself during heavy pulling.

Does the "rope" have a tendency to do this too?

Gary

[NickfromWI]

Maybe the manufacturers should post links to sites like this along with their instructions in order to help the beginning splicer along a bit.

That is an AWESOME idea!!! I gotta talk to some people about this...

love
nick

[sotc]

yes gary but its easier to un bury

[Burnham]

yes gary but its easier to un bury

And wouldn't get a permanent kink there either, I reckon.

[squisher]

Hah Willie I bet you have seen the same as me some real frigging messes of cable before. Pry bar, sledge, and alot of swearing.:D

[NickfromWI]

Willie said it right. I've seen that happen, but I've been able to pull it out by hand with little force.

love
nick

[Burnham]

Hah Willie I bet you have seen the same as me some real frigging messes of cable before. Pry bar, sledge, and alot of swearing.:D

Ain't that the full-blown truth!

[GASoline71]

yes gary but its easier to un bury


And wouldn't get a permanent kink there either, I reckon.

That's what I'm lookin' for... I have abused that cable on my winch hard over the years. Whether it's gettin' the truck unstuck, pullin' stumps, winchin' trees over, or yardin' trees out of the brush, tryin' to "unbury" a steel cable sucks.

Plus when it kinks it makes respoolin' so much fun!:X

Gary

[sotc]

ha squisher, you for got to add in the jaggers and bloody hands:)

[squisher]

Lol, I try not to remember that part. Nothing like thinking you had the accumulator set but you actually didn't and looking over and seeing a rats nest on the spool, oops! Not often I frigged it up cause my young legs were on the hillside not sitting in the engineers cab, but I often got to help fix the damn problem.


Sorry for the derail Nick, when is this rope set to hit the market?

[lumberjack]

On our 9k lb winch if the cable gets burried I'll run the winch backwards (with the winch and hook anchored at the appropriate distance) and it's always pulled it back out.

Granted that's kinda hard to do if you're up to your ass in mud.

[NickfromWI]

It is available now, but it has to be purchased....through me! they are working on getting it to bishop, wesspur, etc...but that'll be a while.

Bloody hands...that's reason enough to switch from steel.

I'll get prices soon, then we can talk more about it.

love
nick

[squisher]

Cool, I'm gonna be in the market for some winch line here shortly.:/:

[tblough]

Gary,

Just curious, what does the CG use on the recovery winches on the helicopters?

[MasterBlaster]

1/4" steel braid, I bet.

[Bodean]

Nick,

I convinced my Supervisor to buy a spool.

Does it come in spools?

We need a bid sheet for it first so we can create a Purchase request then a Purchase Order.

:)

[Canuck]

I will most likely be in the market for a winch line in the near future as well. I'll get some of this from Nick if only to test it out for the rest of you. Now if Nick can make it a little faster than the beeline prussic loops I asked for we'll be rockin. :evil:

[NickfromWI]

Fair enough, canuck!

I'm working on the prices...I'll get back to you soon.

love
nick

[Canuck]

Hey Nick if I was worried about it I would have reminded you. No problem.

[gf beranek]

I'm always a Johnny come lately to these threads. A new stronger, lighter and nifty line? Wow! Probably over priced because it's new. Look at Amsteel when it first came out.

Though the one good thing about this new line is, it has a good durable cover. So it appears anyway. That was the problem with the Amsteel and similiar HMWPE do-higgie lines. They had a weak cover and lousy chaff resistance. Maybe finaly.....

[jamie]

My only concern is using the line while skidding. how do they handle being rasped over rocks etc?

breifly onto rats nests on the drums. our skidder has double drums if its real bad we run one round a snatch block and pull. either that or anchor it and drive.

Jamie

[Canuck]

Nick.... Pricing?

[NickfromWI]

Crazy, in just the past 2 hours I have been talking with folks at yale about it.

Here's the update...

Not exactly sure about the pricing. The splice is do-able, but maybe not for the average tree climbing splicer. They are developing a custom termination attachment to make it the "everyman's" winch line.

I'm still working on this and I'll report back as soon as I know something more.

love
nick

[Canuck]

Well, I need a winch line for my new chipper and would be willing to play guinea pig.

[Frans]

Neoprene layer? Seems odd.

Nick, do you have any samples?

[NickfromWI]

I'm working on a short vid....stay tuned!

I do have some samples. This is some crazy stuff!

I think neoprene is the wrong word. It's a parallel dyneema core coated in latex, then wrapped in polyester.

love
nick