Accidental Electrical Contact

[RIVERRAT]

About a 2 weeks ago came on a job to remove a decent size Bradford Pear. At first glance nothing seemed to difficult about the job.
It had the phone,TV & Service to the house going through & underneath it. A play set made of wood planks, you know the kind with a slide & bars to climb on, that was underneath & slightly out in front of the tree. There was also a nice storage shed.

None of these things where of much concern. Being just the regular stuff we all deal with while doing tree work around homes. As I was putting my saddle on I noticed the service wire to the house had been rubbing for a time on the upper branches. As it came through the center of the canopy on it's way to the house. I made a mental note to tie in away from it & be sure to check it before any of our work started.

After getting myself secure I looked "DOWN" from above {My first mistake} at the service. Service looked just fine.

The last limb to be removed goes over the phone & TV wires, the play set & the storage shed. I remove small sections of the tips that I am able to handle easily & pitch them over & clear of the targets below.

As I shorten up the limb getting into the bigger wood I have the guys throw a line over the phone & TV cable that is directly beneath the limb so they can pull it back out of the way. I take 2 steps down to make a cut & that's when I hear that noise that when it's close will make just about any climbers sphincter pucker:\: That very momentary humm was followed by a POW:O

I look down at the guys thinking their pulling the other 2 lines had some how made the contact. Both of their facial expressions told the tell. Before Ed my groundy could say anything I immediately took a step up. Only to hear another hummm .......POW:O

The service line was under tension from the tree. During the removal it had changed position under neath me after the release of tension. The weather strip was also rubbed off on the "BOTTOM SIDE" I could not have seen this from above. My saw on my saddle made contact with the ground & both 120 wires:O

The chain was spot welded to the bar & well you can see the rest. I should have done a much better job of inspecting the service to the house. I was complacent!!

[pantheraba]

Glad you are OK, River. A real eye-opener for you and reminder for the rest of us. Good pictures.

[Greenhorn]

Holy sh*t! Gotta go remove some pears today too, glad you're ok.

[vharrison]

Sheeze, that is scary stuff Jeff. Glad you are okay.

[Blinky]

Bummer about the saw but better it than you. I'll bet you don't forget that one anytime soon.

[MasterBlaster]

Were any of the clients house electronics damaged? Sometimes that happens in those situations and it can get expensive!

[sotc]

was the saw hanging short? did you get burned? yikes

[gf beranek]

That always puts a different outlook on the job. Glad you didn't get in the circuit, Jeff. Those low voltage lines have probably killed more people than the high ones.

[stehansen]

How long did it take you to unhook the saw lanyard from your belt?

[Frans]

wow, great pictures and am glad your o.k.

[Old Monkey]

Glad you are OK Jeff. I can't decide whether you are lucky or unlucky.

[No_Bivy]

dude....your using up your nine lives fast!!!

[lumberjack]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Trees/th_MVI_0257.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Trees/?action=view&current=MVI_0257.flv)

Geez Jeff, be careful out there eh?

[MasterBlaster]

WTF?

[sotc]

dang carl, that shortend the life of some bushings!

[Skwerl]

Damn, Carl! Many people don't get the opportunity to try that move twice!
:O

[lumberjack]

That was in April of 06. I was lowering the top boom so I could cut the top out of a tree behind the line. Obviously I found a bare spot in the wire; the only time that's happened and we caught it on camera.

[MasterBlaster]

That's why I like a nice fiberglass bucket and boom. Screw those all metal lifts.

[RIVERRAT]

Were any of the clients house electronics damaged? Sometimes that happens in those situations and it can get expensive!
Nothing got toasted in the house. The house was still recieving power after the incident. There where only but a few strands of the ground & power side intact

[Al Smith]

Usually aerial triplex remains in good shape for years.The exception is where it can come in contact to rub against a tree or something and wear out the insulation. It's only 240 volts but you still have to use caution.

The cute one is where the secondary some how gets into the primary and fires 7200 volts into the house. Usually the fire department gets a call on that deal,followed by the insurance company.

[RIVERRAT]

was the saw hanging short? did you get burned? yikes
I did not in any way get in the circuit.

I have in the past year changed slightly the way my saw attaches to my saddle.
In that it sits a little lower & the bar lays horizontal to the ground. I will be changing this soon to a bar tip pointing to the ground position on my saddle.

My reason for the change was one, going back to my O'l trusty use of a ladder hook placed through the top handle. Keeping the saw horizontal on my saddle helped keep the tip of the bar & chain from cutting the leather of my right boot to minimum.
But I have never quite got used to going back to the Horizontal lay of my 200 on my saddle. It seems to catch on everything. I will be changing to something different this week.

[RIVERRAT]

Bummer about the saw but better it than you. I'll bet you don't forget that one anytime soon. The saw still works fine leaks a little oil. But other than that is no worse than the wear.

[MasterBlaster]

I will be changing this soon to a bar tip pointing to the ground position on my saddle.


I've never seen it done any other way. You wear it horizontally? :?

[squisher]

My reason for the change was one, going back to my O'l trusty use of a ladder hook placed through the top handle. Keeping the saw horizontal on my saddle helped keep the tip of the bar & chain from cutting the leather of my right boot to minimum.

Pay attention Butch :?





:P :lol:

[MasterBlaster]

Pay attention to what? Cutting your boot?

[RIVERRAT]

Pay attention to what? Cutting your boot?
On removals when I would spike up the saw would swing a bit & thats were it would cut my boot. With the saw on my saddle bar tip down.

The balance of a saw with a ladder hook through the top handle, has the saw laying in a horizontal position on the saddle. Bar tip only slightly down.

Hope that helps. I will post a pic later.

[Blinky]

I had to remove limbs a few times from service drop wires that had worn through all the insulation. Since it's just 240 phase to phase is won't buzz you through contact with dry wood... but somebody needs to come back and fix the insulation in my opinion.

I was cutting a hanger out of a crotch, in NOLA, in the rain, and happened to pop my head out of the canopy to notice I was a LOT closer to some big bare transmission lines than I thought I was, 8' to 10' maybe. The crotch was in a limb that extended to within 3' of one of those lines and when I released the hanger it jumped toward the lines another foot. I haven't puckered up like that in years... very memorable. It's hard to judge how much a limb will move as you unload it.

[RIVERRAT]

I had to remove limbs a few times from service drop wires that had worn through all the insulation. Since it's just 240 phase to phase is won't buzz you through contact with dry wood... but somebody needs to come back and fix the insulation in my opinion.

It's hard to judge how much a limb will move as you unload it. The client was told of the issue & the service will be replaced. Blinky thanks for your understanding thoughts also.
I would also like to thank Carl for posting that clip of himself. It is not an easy thing to come to an open forum & reveal things of this nature. There is always the thought of ridicule & judgment coming from others.
I even got wind of some calling me a dumb ass on my last accident.
I can only say I know of none that have done this work for any length of time with out incident.

We strive for perfection in this vocation but because of our human nature we are destined to fail at times & fall short.

[Al Smith]

I've seen people do dumb things with service drops,especially on the farms.They might have an out building that needs power that has a tree in line with the source that they use for a pole.

The dummys screw an insulater into the tree and run the wires through the canopy which in time shreds the insulation off from movement.In time it actually wears through the aluminum and the wire burns in two. The only way to get the insulater out of the tee is to cut it out,they will not unscrew in just a short time. We had an electric chainsaw in the bucket truck we used for just such things.It also came in handy to lop the bottom off of class 4 southern yellow pine poles they tried to sell roots and all for length.

[RIVERRAT]

wow, great pictures and am glad your o.k.

I take nothing but the best of pics of my mishaps:D

[squisher]

Well like others here Jeff I apreciate you sharing this. It's a good reminder for all of us. You posting this could potentially save someone's life, so good on ya for risking the ridicule and sharing a valuable experience.:thumbup:

I had forgot to mention that in my post razzing MB. :(

[RIVERRAT]

Thanks Squish. The reason you brought up is why after some thought I posted this.

[JonnyHart]

Glad all is well Jeff. The power company puts you on a waiting list for months to drop a service line here. Similar situation there?
Carl, that was friggin scary.
I got zapped badly in the summer of 06. Doing a large weeping willow removal very close to some primaries. I had just started spiking my way up, and using my silky to cut little suckers out of my way. One little 1/2" diameter sucker I cut laid across one of the primaries and I really didn't notice, the butt end kinda stuck back against the tree, and I absent-mindedly swiped it away with my hand. ZAP! I was stuck there holding it, just cooking. I couldn't let go. It took all my strength to bring my free hand around and push my arm to move the sucker away from the wire. The next day and for a week following, the muscles in that arm I moved were incredibly sore. I came out of that tree at about 9 am, called the boss and told him to take me home.
Can chalk it all up to not paying attention. My mind was on what I was gonna do when I reached the canopy, not on what I was actually doing. Almost got myself killed. If that sucker was a bit longer and laid across 2 of the wires, I probably would have been.
I don't think I've told you guys about this before.

[pantheraba]

Dang, Jonny...I'm sure you probably dreamed about that one for awhile. Not being able to control your arm had to be scary. Sounds like you kept your head, didn't panic and found a way to save yourself. Stay safe.

[sawinredneck]

Looks like something my buddy would have done:lol:
(Sorry Jeff:P )
Glad you came out alright!!! Scary deal for sure!!!

[lumberjack]

The way I understand electricity, I was at minimal risk. My lift was grounded, I wasn't. If I would have grabbed the wire I would have been in the circuit, but otherwise I was golden.

If Jonny's sucker would have been on a primary and a ground, he would have been golden, 2 primaries would have been 2x the voltage and he would have been golden brown, extra crispy.

[Big A]

The way I understand electricity, I was at minimal risk. My lift was grounded, I wasn't. If I would have grabbed the wire I would have been in the circuit, but otherwise I was golden.

If Jonny's sucker would have been on a primary and a ground, he would have been golden, 2 primaries would have been 2x the voltage and he would have been golden brown, extra crispy.
As someone has said, these close shaves are a valuable lesson that electricity bites, and hard!! Its part of the groundies job to watch the power lines, and watch what the climber is doing near them. Dont forget a puff of wind can drift your ropes into cables too. Stay safe out there.

[MasterBlaster]

The way I understand electricity, I was at minimal risk. My lift was grounded, I wasn't.

I'm having trouble understanding that. Isn't your rig all metal? Why do you think you're not grounded? Are you standing on a rubber mat and not touching anything?

[Jonseredbred]

Carl, in your lift you are part of the ground. If you are in a wire as shown in your vid all it takes is for the electricity to find an easier ground (thru you to a more conductive control switch) and you are toast.

Your lift provides you with NO protection as the operator and NO protection for your groundcrew.

[vharrison]

I don't think I've told you guys about this before.

Jonny, I don't think you did either. That is scary stuff. Glad you are okay.

[MasterBlaster]

Wow!

[stehansen]

I'm glad everyone is OK.

[sawinredneck]

This has been a very educational and informative thread!!!
Thanks guys!!

[Al Smith]

It only takes about a tenth of an amp across the heart for about 1 second to be fatal. Arm to arm you have about 10,000 ohms of resistance in your body with dry skin. Persperation,rain etc would lower this resistance so in theory it could get low enough for 120 volts to do you in.

Actually more people buy the farm every year from just low voltage household current than get zapped from the primarys.That being said though you need to be very mindfull of the primarys because you seldom get a second chance if you tangle with them.

Most trimmers are not trained nor have the safety equipment to deal with close proximity work around distrubution lines. If you must,be carefull.This is a situation where speed is not the essence .One wrong move could leave you as a burnt cinder. Perhaps my use of words are grim but it does paint a picture of what could happen.

Another thing I should mention is the ground help.It is the part of a good groundie to keep an eye on the guy aloft,either a climber or in the bucket.At times situations may arrise where the groundman can see a potential problem that may escape the climber or bucketman.A "heads up" can make all the difference in the world.

[RIVERRAT]

Another thing I should mention is the ground help.It is the part of a good groundie to keep an eye on the guy aloft,either a climber or in the bucket.At times situations may arrise where the groundman can see a potential problem that may escape the climber or bucketman.A "heads up" can make all the difference in the world.
:thumbup:

[Ax-Man]

Glad to hear your OK and all came out well. I sincerely mean this too because the outcome could have easily been different. I have had a few encounters with live wires myself over the years and can say I have been lucky. I think most guys who do treework can say the same thing but unfortunely others can't say the same.

From reading the thread it sounds like a case of neglect on the part of the homeowner letting a tree get so far out of hand to have this tree and wire conflict get so bad that they finally had to do something about it. I bet they might have had a few service interruptions before you were hired to cut the tree down and knew the there was a problem with the electical service.

Did the owners say anything at all to you before the cutting of the tree????

It just gets my blood pressure up somethimes when I go to do estimates and see obvious cases of neglect on the part of the owner when it comes to their trees. Most times if they had taken steps earlier it would be much easier and cheaper to remedy the problem than to let it get out of hand and not have to have to pay so much money. To top it all off they don't want to pay as it is and don't see the danger or realize that their tree is a hazard and could cause someone to get hurt.

[RIVERRAT]

.

Did the owners say anything at all to you before the cutting of the tree????


No they said nothing. Half the tree busted out from the ice storm. They called us to take care of it.

I think, maybe, it might be expecting to much for the home owner to know about these things

[fallguy1960]

Electricity is my line of work I can say that what has been stated here is correct, more people are killed from 120/240 volts than all others combined. Part of the reason is that everyone has acess to it, and because we do we take it for granted. I work substations so I work around 120 to 500,000 volts so I am always looking at the lines. The other thing that can get you with 120 /240 volts is the insulation can get worn through on the limbs and not blow the fuses because there is not enough leakage. So if you have to handle the wires always look before you grab them. Glad to here you are alright.

[stehansen]

I used to take them for granted. Not anymore.

[Al Smith]

Another heads up.In the rare case of a double set of distrubution being used even a dead line can get you.

They often run a double feeder ,three on one side of the cross arm and three on the other. Even if one side is deenergized the mutual induction from the other can charge those lines to a lethal level.

Miles upon miles of totally deenegized line can also act like a giant capaciter and light you up also. I got the piss knocked out of me working on an insullated pipe line that parrelled a 138 kv transmission line.I had to file the coating off to cadweld an anode to it. I got down to metal then zap,like getting kicked by a mule .Who knew.:O

[treetrash]

Service drops are weather coated not insulated. They should not be touched. I just sat through a safety meeting last week where a lineman was in tears telling a story of a friend who did not respect the secondary he was working near. Little kids having to go to their fathers funeral is not a story that is fun to hear. If I die that sucks for me but it is my family that has to live with it. Just please be carefull with that stuff. Glad your O.K.

[Jamin Mayer]

Service drops are weather coated not insulated.

Good point.

[Blinky]

Service drops are weather coated not insulated.

Not completely true. The outer jacket is weather coating. The phase conductors are individually jacketed with 600v insulation. In EHAP we're taught it's just a weather coating but that's not electrically feasible because there would be phase to phase or phase to ground contact.


They should not be touched. I just sat through a safety meeting last week where a lineman was in tears telling a story of a friend who did not respect the secondary he was working near. Little kids having to go to their fathers funeral is not a story that is fun to hear. If I die that sucks for me but it is my family that has to live with it. Just please be carefull with that stuff. Glad your O.K.

I couldn't agree more. :thumbup:

[Al Smith]

Actually most triplex has cross link poly insulation [xlp] which is a tough as they come. Nothing though will prevent the stuff from getting chaffed through by rubbing against a tree building or what ever.

The older single conductor service drops used some tar coated stuff called weather proof which of course it was not after say 40 or more years in the elements. If you run into this antiquated stuff it has about as much insulting qualities as a bare wire .Like none at all,beware.

[NeTree]

River, I'm glad you made out okay. You have no idea how lucky you got.

This will probably sound a little harsh, but this is exactly why people who aren't specifically trained to work around power lines need to yield to those who are. Unless you are specifically trained and qualified, it's actually illegal for you to be there.

First rule is to clear the line using insulated tools from a safe platform. THEN you can work the rest of the tree using normal means. Most utility companies will do this part for you at no charge (pardon the pun) if you don't have the equipment to do it.

Stay safe, brother.

[Jonseredbred]

In simpler terms River, your first cut should have been that limb in question w/ a fiberglass pole saw from the ground.:thumbup:

[stehansen]

Our utility won't clear service drops. But one time I had to prune a tree that was growing up into the primaries and I had the customer call requesting the lines be cleared and they did it in 4 days. Trees Inc. came and did it for the Modesto Irrigation District. I was very impressed, I thought it would take a long time for them to schedule it.

[NeTree]

History has taught me that if they say they won't clear it, an offer to drop it yourself will usually get them there on the double. ;)

I did a removal a few years ago where the power company had guyed a power pole to the tree. I called three times to ask them to remove the guy so I could do the job. After about three weeks, I called and told them I was dropping the tree the next day whether they had removed the guy wire or not. Sure enough, they were there bright and early. =D

[MasterBlaster]

History has taught me that if they say they won't clear it, an offer to drop it yourself will usually get them there on the double.

That may work great when you rip the service drop from the transformer/pole, but what happens when you tear out the customer's fascia board and weatherhead?

[RIVERRAT]

In simpler terms River, your first cut should have been that limb in question w/ a fiberglass pole saw from the ground.:thumbup:
They dont make a pole long enough. Not any that I have seen as pole saws for our industry. Adding extensions to an existing pole would have been silly. The power company would not have messed with it.

[Al Smith]

The power company usually keeps the drop are pretty clear on their right of ways.

Where the problem lies is when home owners plant a Christmas tree close to the house thinking it will remain small forever. Before you know it,it grows into the service drop while the roots undermine the foundation making a real mess of things.

I have a couple of Norfolk pines myself that I've got to clear out next spring before they get into the 7200 that feeds my transformer.I clipped them about 4 or 5 years ago but they continue to grow.Danged trees must be 80 feet by now.They are large enough that I can wiggle up through the limbs.The drop is buried.

[Cobleskill]

I have seen cases where squirrels have chewed a lot of insulation off secondarys. To the point of seeing some bare aluminum. Keep your eyes wide open and go slow.

[JonnyHart]

BTW, a few months following my accident, we had bad snow storm that caused alot of tree damage. I went to work subbing for Erie County, and they put me and every other sub-contractor through EHAP certification classes.
I highly recommend employers put all workers through this. Extremely educational, and it can save your life.
So yeah, at the time of my accident, I really wasn't supposed to be so close to the wires.

[TheTreeSpyder]

i try not to mess with electric. In younger years i've felt tingling in the tree several times. Even with a house drop of 240; you have to remeber that it is the amps, not volts that kills, and throws fuses. But, outside the house; you are before the fuses....

After the hurricanes; we saw several cable and telephone lines down, that you'd think were okay. But, if you lead in with hairs of forearm you could see slight movement........ Thus, any wire is suspect; especially in such circumstances.

In a dry environment; with rubber tires and wood pads and/or isolated outriggers you lift is supposed to be isolated if not touching anything else(?). Also, if someone does get shocked in lift; some have gotten killed trying to save them by climbing on to rig to get to lower controls; inadvertently offering charged chasis route to ground. They say to jump so that you don't touch ground and chasis at same time; but even this is risky; especially in damp circumstances.

When i was a teenager; in the next lil'town over; some high power line went down at the road during a storm. After the storm, this man came out of his trailer onto the wooden porch and dropped dead. Someone came out to see what was wrong with gramps; and fell over. Eventually the whole trailer emptied out; and 3 generations of a family where wiped out that day. They said the line was such high voltage; it formed some kind of death dome around it. As folks wandered outside of the grounded trailer; they were killed dead. Shit ain't nuthin'to mess with!

Glad to 'ear you are still here to tell the tale!

MTL Safety and gross pix page (http://www.mytreelessons.com/Pages/Safety.htm)

[Frans]

RR, I just checked in with this thread;

Did Charlie give you a hard time with this?

[Stumper]

Jeff. Glad you are okay. Our local utility is really good about dropping service lines for tree work-they require sceduling 3 days in advance but have ALWAYS shown up on time or a few minutes early and are back within 30 minutes when I call for the reinstall.

[Al Smith]

. Even with a house drop of 240; you have to remeber that it is the amps, not volts that kills, and throws fuses. But, outside the house; you are before the fuses....

.... but you have to remember that amperage is a product of voltage divided by resistance.Your body resistance does not change unless you are protected by rubber gloves,sleeves etc. ie protective gear.

Unprotected contact with the normal 7200 volt distrubution lines[primary] could in theory subject your body to the possiblity of passing a current of 30 times the amount as would contact across 240. Both of course could be lethal.

[Blinky]

Another thing about high voltage... if the primaries are in contact with any part of the tree, the higher the voltage, the more current the tree is capable of conducting. That's why you should clear all contact from the tree using insulated tools and a bucket if necessary before climbing.

[RIVERRAT]

RR, I just checked in with this thread;

Did Charlie give you a hard time with this?
We discussed it. I let him know I was well aware of why it happened & knew what precautions I would take to prevent it from recurring.
It's not something either of us took lightly

[xtremetrees]

I think as long as you own that chainsaw it will never happen again. So, your good for 7 more years bro.:)

[TheTreeSpyder]

Sorry, but this is just like saying; you already fell once,so don't have to tie in any more IMLHO.

i think each occurance is an independant spin of the roulette wheel. So, you wouldn't expect your number to come up twice; but it is not bound not to; because it all ready did.

[sotc]

even if you still have the same flip line? :dur:

[RIVERRAT]

Oh come on fellas, give him a break. Xtreme was kidding