Bid per inch for tree removal

[mek]

I have to bid a bigger job for a city contractor to remove trees. It has to be bid per inch for trees, no stumps. Do you guys find that you make more or less money bidding jobs like this? Personally I dont like bids like that but I will for work. I figured about how many hours it will take so I will divide that by the amount of inches per tree.

[MasterBlaster]

That is just so wack, yo.

[sotc]

yeah just figure what it will cost to do the tree and divide by the amount of inches. just be carefull they dont try and add on extra trees for your per inch price unless you see them first!

[Blinky]

I know stumps are bid that way sometimes but urban trees? How are you supposed to account for things like traffic control, rigging away from structure, lousy access, blablabla? Too many variables. You at least need the right to refuse a job if it's way off the typical spec.

[Ax-Man]

Make sure you know how high the trees are being measured. Big difference between ground level and 2 feet above ground level.

I have done some state work in the past and the trees were awarded on a per inch basis. The trees were measured two feet above grade. If a tree had two or more stems above the two foot mark each stem was considered a seperate tree. Almost like getting paid double or triple.

Now this is the kicker. Below two feet high was considered the stump and they only had to be ground down to grass level. This is what the state called stump removal. Of course we cut the stump ALAP and then only had to surface grind the rest. They made the specs not me. They were happy.

We made out good on jobs like that but took forever to get paid. Was worth it when we finally did get paid.

[Frans]

thats a strange way of bidding work. I bet some pencil pusher thought that one up.
I knew a guy who billed according to how many cuts he made in the tree for pruning. He had a clicker and would use that for counting. oh and he would then paint every cut

[MasterBlaster]

On two different jobs I've done ROW trimming and we measured it all by the foot. From dripline to dripline, we would run a wheel measuring gizmo. It seemed to work out OK.

[Mr. Sir]

I did quite a few bids like that many years ago. Never landed a single job from them. I pretty much overbid them I guess. I think its a stupid system.

[Jonseredbred]

Just be carefull on them adding tree's on you. If the bid has (1) 48" DBH tree on it and you price it cheap to make your bid a winner, they will find every 48" tree in the city.

There is no formula to DBH bids, you still gotta look at every tree, figure your time and formulate a unit price so they can technically (thru unit prices) determine the best bid. Normally, those unit price bids are for contracts w/ extensions or add ons.

[NickfromWI]

I know of people who deal with that. The concept (in the situations I've seen) is that these are "mostly" uniform trees along a street that has similar obstacles along most of the street. It makes sense for the city (because it is easy). It can work for the tree company when you are dealing with many trees. Where I've seen it fail is when a company establishes a "per inch" rate with the city, does a row of trees. Then a month later the city calls and says, hey- we got another tree, can you come do it for that same rate.

Or if it is a whole nother street of trees that has even MORE obstacles, say a parallel running power line or something like that.

But I agree, it is a stupid way. They should just tell you what trees they want work done in, then you go look at the trees and give the price.

love
nick

[Jamin Mayer]

I have to bid a bigger job for a city contractor to remove trees. It has to be bid per inch for trees, no stumps. Do you guys find that you make more or less money bidding jobs like this? Personally I dont like bids like that but I will for work. I figured about how many hours it will take so I will divide that by the amount of inches per tree.

I wouldn't jump through their hoops. I would try to inform them how bidding is done and let them know why. I understand work is work, but...:what:

Talk about ignorance on the side of the city.:|:

[mek]

The stumps stay for the contractor to take out. They are putting sewer lines in and sidewalks. These trees are all roadside. Thanks for the info guys. I wrote it up as only trees marked for removal on the map for this project. I put a bid in so we will see what happens.At least they gave me a map to see all the trees not like the city where I live they wanted bids per inch also and per tree trim no map. I did not bid that one.

[OTGBOSTON]

Talk about ignorance on the side of the city.:|:

I don't think its ignorance as much as it is a way to make it fair for everyone to bid. You guys are looking at it from the contractor perspective. I've got hundreds of thousand of trees to manage, I don't think you can appreciate the kind of paperwork that would be generated from getting bids on individual trees!

I base mine on 10in increments (0-9, 10-19, 20-29,etc) Then depending on my projected budget I can tweak the unit #'s. I also make it clear that the unit numbers that are bid are for bid purposes only, meaning if you put 40'' removals at $500. because there is only one listed on the bid sheet, I can give you as many 40'' as I want.........

I had a guy come in and wipe out $350,000. worth of work in about two months, not a bad little score imho. He based his prices on the theory that there aren't too many trees over 40'' in the city (he was VERY wrong) so I got a good low price for trees like that but at the same time he was getting $200. for 3'' trees. His secret was keeping the mid range trees high. I am definately on the wrong side of this biz when it comes to making $$$$$$$

Hope this makes sense. And please don't hack on the Cities. There are all kinds of rules and laws about buying goods and services that you probably just don't know about.

[sotc]

His secret was keeping the mid range trees high.

can you elaborate on this thought?

[OTGBOSTON]

can you elaborate on this thought?

I'll give you the entire breakdown: under 10''- $300.00, 10-19'' $530.00, 20-29'' $800.00, 30-39'' $975.00, over 40'' $800.00. He was basically banking on most of the trees being in the 20-39'' range, which they are......

[lumberjack]

So a 40" tree cost $175 less than a 30" tree.

That makes perfect sense to me.

[stehansen]

So a 40" tree cost $175 less than a 30" tree.

That makes perfect sense to me.

You just need to think outside the bun LJ.

[Bounce]

In this biz, I've learned that you usually get what you pay for. If the city contracts are simply awarded to the lowest bidder, I wouldn't even bother bidding. It simply doesn't pay to be the lowest priced game in town. It's also bad marketing if you ask me. I charge higher prices than some guys (although still fair if you ask me), but I justify those higher prices by doing better work. Can you imagine the pressure put on a crew to start cutting corners on a big city contract if the boss started to realize he'd way underbid it 1 week into a 3 month job? The chances of people getting hurt or property damaged are sky high in this situation.

[sotc]

I'll give you the entire breakdown: under 10''- $300.00, 10-19'' $530.00, 20-29'' $800.00, 30-39'' $975.00, over 40'' $800.00. He was basically banking on most of the trees being in the 20-39'' range, which they are......

im trying to wrap my mind around that, its kinda making sence in the back of my head. thanks

[Mr. Sir]

Ha, and then they throw in a bunch of 60+ inch trees just for grins. No thanks.

[Jonseredbred]

Its all about the law of averages when doing this type of contract work, somedays are big and some days are just ok.

[OTGBOSTON]

Its all about the law of averages when doing this type of contract work, somedays are big and some days are just ok.


And some days you pay for a quarter of a million dollar log truck in two months.

I'm not saying the system is pefect, I'm also not taking responsibility for coming up with it.

It is all about VOLUME. You guys haven't even started bitching about prevailing wage or minority involvement yet............

I've got an idea, just for kicks, you guys tell me how it should be and I'll shoot holes in your theories.............:D

[OTGBOSTON]

Ha, and then they throw in a bunch of 60+ inch trees just for grins. No thanks.


been known to do this myself:D .

[Jonseredbred]

If the city contracts are simply awarded to the lowest bidder, I wouldn't even bother bidding. It simply doesn't pay to be the lowest priced game in town. It's also bad marketing if you ask me. I charge higher prices, but I justify those higher prices by doing better work.

In a contract situation and all the specifications are met why would it not go to the low bidder?? These City contracts are not let out to the average Joe Tree Service. There is bonding issue's, previous work history in like contracts, a number of things.

Up here we only get about $575.00 for a 25-35" tree, may seem low to some of you guys but we are equipped with the right equipment and know how that we can honestly do 4 or 5 of them a day with a 3 man crew. Am I working cheap ? Maybe by the unit price, but not by the day.

[mek]

They opened the bids on this job and four were $12 an inch one was $13 an inch I was $20 an inch and one was $38.16 an inch. I could not believe the prices when I heard them. I do not know who they awarded the contract to.

[Skwerl]

$12 an inch is insane cheap. Less than $300 for a 24" DBH tree is stupid. How can anybody afford to buy equipment and hire employees for less than $300 per removal?

Or maybe I'm not understanding. Is this per inch of diameter or per inch of circumference? For circumference it would work just fine.

[mek]

Yeah I know. This business can be so frustrating sometimes. But it can be rewarding to in a way.

[Jonseredbred]

Depends on the situation Brian, Up here most 24" Silver Maples (our common parkway tree) are scraggly and you can do 5 or 6 a day easy.

[OTGBOSTON]

Depends on the situation Brian, Up here most 24" Silver Maples (our common parkway tree) are scraggly and you can do 5 or 6 a day easy.

And a lot of trees have been "pruned" to death, so there isn't much left of them by the time they need to be removed.

[TC3]

I've been brainstorming on a way to bid pruning work on a similar system.
It just seems like the co.'s that really make decent $$$ are the ones that come up with a system.
Waste Management didn't get huge by picking up your trash >>> They came up with a pricing system that leans in their favor, based on averages.
I think it's genious.

[Canuck]

The city I live in does a spring brush chipping project where home owners can do there own pruning and put the branches in the alley. The city then hires a contractor to go down all the alleys and chip the brush. It is bid on a per unit basis. In this case per tonne. The contract hasn't been officially awarded yet but I was low bidder this year. At my rate of $xxx per tonne I will gross approximately $xxx per load of chips. In the newer areas of the city I'll be lucky to get a full load in a day, but in the older areas I'll be able to get 4 (5 in a couple cherry areas that are close to dump scales and dump sites). I bid low based on averages. Some guys came is as much as $100 per tonne higher than me because of the light areas where they can't get as much tonnage per day. The way I bid it I might even lose money a couple of days but I make out quite well in the end. The contract averages 300 tonne and we'll get it done in a month. Thats $xx,xxx for 3 guys with 2 trucks and one chipper in four weeks. I don't know about you but I'm very happy with that scenario.

[Canuck]

And yes they base it on low bid. But there are qualifications that have to be met before you can bid like Jonseredbred said.

[sotc]

very cool. let us know how it turns out if you would

[arborworks1]

I think I'll bid on that I could stand living in a motel for a month, and chipping everyday for that kind of money.

seriously that is a good contract. especially to start off the season. congrats

[Canuck]

You'll have to get a work visa too. ;)

[squisher]

:/:

Good luck with your bid. That's alot sweeter set-up than around here. Here you list equipment/manpower and bid per hour. I'm still hoping to get on this year though.

[arborworks1]

You are correct, I better start working on that now so I have everything in order.;)

[stehansen]

Around here all the cities have their own setups. They usually have a loader that they pick up leaves with with one of those triangle squeeze things and they load the brush/debris into a garbage truck.

[Canuck]

very cool. let us know how it turns out if you would


Its turned out great for me in the past. I've always worked as a sub for other guys though. This is the first time I've gone after the whole thing.

[arborworks1]

You should sub it out and make the dough without touching a twig.

DO you have to rake and blow the street?

[Canuck]

No. We rake but any fines that are left we just give a quick rake to the curb and go. The biggest issue is that alot of the brush is a year old and dry as hell, cut into little pieces and stacked into home owner piles. Think thorny brush cut into two foot lengths, piled every which way and all smashed together so it takes up less space.

[Canuck]

Now stop derailing this thread. This is about per unit pricing not chipping.

[arborworks1]

Sounds like a grapple loading chipper would be a good match for that. Or the mini loader.

Right on per inch tree removal pricing. you started it!

[Canuck]

I'm shopping a conehead for it right now. No grapple but we'll put a winch on it and that will help.

[arborworks1]

Well good luck sounds like a great project. Just so you know we were sweating in t shirts today.

Think I actually got a jump start on my farmers tan.

[Canuck]

It was below freezing and blowing snow here today. The only type of day that deadwooding spruce is the preferred type of work.