Please review my notches

[xtremetrees]

Heres some holding wood photos. I learned here at the tree house what bypassing the cut actually means i am searching the notches threads thank you tree housers!. Im sorry I ain't been around much. !!!!Anyway heres the holding wood picks.!!!!
Some of the logs were pulled by 2or 3 grounds men(which I've taught then not to wrap arm round the rope already preventing a source risk of injury to them) and some were pulled by a New Holland 185.5 bobcat plaything.
To me my holding wood looks about right. Even and straight and about the final 1 inch of holding wood is the rule on go no go wood no matter how its pulled. agree disagree.
I'm fresh back to production and dual axer chippers.:thumbup:

[TheTreeWiseMen]

I see no notches....

[pantheraba]

I see not notches
They are not there
Where could they be?
Oh, where, oh, where?

[pantheraba]

They might not be for us to see
They might still be inside the tree.

If they were cut by Mr. B
There might not be a notch to see

[MasterBlaster]

I long for Humbolt notches.
Are there none to see?
Show me a good underbed.

[Burnham]

There might not be a notch to see
But if 'twas cut by Mr. B
You know there would have to be
A tree go down, a tree, a tree!

[TheTreeWiseMen]

What is this, 'Friends of the Notch-less'?

[Burnham]

Mayhaps, the Notch-less Monster?

[TheTreeWiseMen]

Hey, Mr. Extreme, reckon you should be changing your user name to...wait for it.....Notchless!! Sorry, couldn't help it....it's been that sort of day.

[pantheraba]

Mayhaps, the Notch-less Monster?

Hahaha...and I thought I was nuts!

Just funnin' 'til you find those notches, Robert, Sir Notchless.

[xtremetrees]

Roger rO, the saw is a 18 or 20 inch bar in some time 30 inch wood?.

[The Branch Doctor]

WTF? What are we supposed to review?

[Jonseredbred]

I think you have your pictures mis labeled Robert.

[xtremetrees]

finally the notch
notice my first cut the 12 to7 oclock slant, once I freed the back side (because of bar length) I completed my notch on the right side in one fatal swoop.:) My notch is angled almost X as is evident in the shadow thouw the shadow wood is holding

[MasterBlaster]

Pretty narrow hinge. :drink:

[GASoline71]

That is a big bite for a notch...

Robert... we have a forum for this type of thread now...

The "Tree Felling and Rigging" forum...

Gary

[xtremetrees]

I will add I am doubling up on my pull rope for safety. Yes I am haning to rope to pull with because theri old ropes/

[Mr. Sir]

I would leave a bit more holding wood, and come up a little higher on the back cut.

[xtremetrees]

Thank ya bro's any advice appreciated. Whats the difference between shadow wood and light holding wood i.e. as illusstrated.I'm sorry gary should I move this thread I doubt I can

ERRR once I establish a fell direction I often gun a little more. Thou I always kill the saw once the tree is committed because I enkjy the sound effects.
I know the bobcat will apply alot of force I could get away with a 2 inc h holding wood strip

[squisher]

That is a big bite for a notch...

Gary

Looks pretty good to me depth wise, pretty close to 1/3 I'd figure. Could have the holding wood a little more even(from the backcut) and maybe a little higher on the backcut I'd agree with. But otherwise looking good imo.

:thumbup:

Ok the one looks a little deep and the other looks pretty good I'd say.

[xtremetrees]

Ill take more pics the helmet cam project may require gorilla glue for attachment

[xtremetrees]

Pic 3
Is this to thin?

[squisher]

It would appear you're consistently cutting off one side of your holding wood I'd assume the offside. Also that notch definetly looks a tad deep.

Thanks for sharing, always good to think about and analyze notches.

[Burnham]

I agree with Justin, Robert. You seem to be cutting off that far side of the holding wood. Not a good thing.

[xtremetrees]

Pic 4
Thanks again all comment welcome

[GASoline71]

The one I was commenting on Justin looked like the notch was more than 1/2 by the way he described where his cuts went...

Gary

[xtremetrees]

pic 5

[squisher]

The one I was commenting on Justin looked like the notch was more than 1/2 by the way he described where his cuts went...

Gary

Yup that's why I edited my post man.:thumbup:

[xtremetrees]

Thank all I will make the new holland spinn its bald tires we load the log truck with it, that first load is on days micro logging. I belive this is eco sensitive stuff when you put tree to the best use possible. My bar is to short? naahh I just free up one side. In pic 5 i started cuttting thru pulling the saw to me.. Not good?. Thats all folks.
Burnham I may be cutting my house side free or so that Im sure I dont toenail or to insure no damage in that direction but with a short bar 20 inch with 66 I like my technique! I wish i could start a poll am I too thinon my notches> GRRR!

[GASoline71]

Yup that's why I edited my post man.:thumbup:

:)

[squisher]

My bar is to short? naahh I just free up one side. In pic 5 i started cuttting thru pulling the saw to me.. Not good?. Thats all folks.

If you mean cutting the hingewood off of one side as freeing up, that's not really a good idea, like Burnham said. You should take hingewood down evenly, otherwise it could cause the tree to swing towards the side with more holding wood.

[xtremetrees]

If you mean cutting the hingewood off of one side as freeing up, that's not really a good idea, like Burnham said. You should take hingewood down evenly, otherwise it could cause the tree to swing towards the side with more holding wood.

:/:

[squisher]

:what:

[xtremetrees]

Ok good night all thanks for the review.

[squisher]

Au revoir.

[TheTreeSpyder]

Even leaving just a small tab on the lean side will give the anti spin; as that compressed area would become stretched pulling if it went to swing.

The first notch looks dutched to me(intentional?); the main fibre pull seems center mast; but hard to decode if that is forward head lean; possible/risky dutch correction or rope pull. If true center pull from CG or rope; i'd prefer an outer not center steering.

[squisher]

Even leaving just a small tab on the lean side will give the anti spin; as that compressed area would become stretched pulling if it went to swing.

True but if you're cutting a uneven hinge and going so far as to cut your far side right off, all I'm saying is you'd better be doing that on purpose not by accident. I've 'steered' trees many times by cutting an uneven hinge, all things equal the tree will swing towards the side with more holding wood.

That's if I understood you correctly, otherwise I'm just babbling like usual.:D

[Paul B]

...

[xtremetrees]

I got your troll right here ya skinny necked pencil pushing geek wad.

[Burnham]

I got your troll right here ya skinny necked pencil pushing geek wad.

Uh oh...

[sawinredneck]

Uh oh...

YUP!!!

[xtremetrees]

It was my intention to free up my far side on wood that is bigger than my saw as a climber I think this is safer than not freeing it up and leaving a tab(potential toenail) on the far side. I don't use a bar over 20 inches 14 yrs doing it now with a 20 inch why change it, especially working aloft. I will continue to free up the far side as I think it is much safer than leaving a tab of wood on the far side. I understand thats it is very important to leave your hinging wood even.
You say my holding wood is thin. Today I had a bobcat smoke its tires pulling a stubb. I'd never seen a bobcat smoke its tires but it did. Because you guys said I was thin on my holding wood. It couldnt pull it I had to saw on down to about 1/2 inch before the log would go.
To increase my holding wood I may start hanging a pully instead of a pull rope thereby doubling the bobcats force. Any doing this method of pulling logs by hanging a pully atop the stubb.I will employ this Monday so I can try to increase my holding wood.
Any suggestions on increaseing holding wood appreciated. I just dont want to bomb my 12,500 lb brand new pully.

[Newfie]

I got your troll right here ya skinny necked pencil pushing geek wad.

At least he's literate and coherent all of the time. A goal for you to work on.:what:

[sawinredneck]

Perhaps more of a notch would allow you more holding wood and more control without having to force the tree over so hard?

[xtremetrees]

Point taken newfie.
Sawin are you saying cut a deeper notch, Ive traditionally cut about 1/3 diameter for my notch. When aloft I know that cutting deeper into my notch say 1/2 the diameter, helps if making a taller or more open faced notch to direct top impact on driveway etc. underneath. Most the time I'm looking for logs to lay flat thou there is time I wany the top to flip and land on its head and not the butt to land first over the drive etc. If it is crutial for top placement to be correct I may even walk around and hold base of the tree as it breaks free from the spar.

[sawinredneck]

I am asking as much as you are Robert, I honestly don't know, it's just an idea I wanted to throw out and see what the others thought.

[xtremetrees]

Cut a deeper notch when pulling spars over with machinery vote yes/or no.
Hang a pulley to double the bobcats force and to increase hinge yes or no.

[TheTreeSpyder]

If you cut half way through a circle; then plot hinge in the remaining half; the back/ pulling part of hinge can tend to be in a narrowing part of the circle. this i believe yields less side to side steering. Too shallow can give similar; i like plotting back of hinge to finish at fattest part of tree; then plot in if the Cg needs further or lessor undermined.

If you dutch and pull close, the close can push back as you pull forward; the more you pull forward, the more you also push back against your own efforts; smoking tires(?).

High angle pull rope; also reduces traction, by giving lift to vehicle.

[Skwerl]

I'm not a real big fan of using excessive force when it's not necessary. Of course you shouldn't leave such a thick hinge that the skid steer has to smoke the tires trying to pull it over. If you need that much force then you need a better plan anyway.

Oak can be tenacious on the stump. I've had a 36" trunk with a 15 degree head lean that I couldn't get to bend the hinge. By the time I got it to fall the hinge was less than a half inch wide. Those little peckerpoles less than 18" can be even more resilient.

And if you set a pulley on top of the spar in order to double up on the pulling rope, you will smash your pulley.

PS- Kenny, I know you mean well and I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but it doesn't translate into English at all.

[Jonseredbred]

All the bullshit aside, what no one can tell from your pictures is are they working out for you and your style of work???

Everyone can comment that thy look like they got dutched or are cut off on one side. What we dont know is why you made that particular cut?? Was it to steer a limb or butt???

Was it because the butt leaned back and you needed a big hinge to get it pulled over??

This is the important stuff you need to put in your post's if you desire an honest answer, anything else makes it look like your shining us.

[Burnham]

PS- Kenny, I know you mean well and I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but it doesn't translate into English at all.

Wait, wait, Brian...I think I got this one.

I do, I do!

:)

[xtremetrees]

THere are 5 different cuts in the picks they all look about the same? THese logs are well logs. I dont like cutting tall logs in the back yard, but were harvesting them. I want to be more sure than ever that nothing goes wrong. I kindly agree my holding wood is thin, I dont mean to shine johnseredbred. I think rocky j skwerl brings up a most important and often ill forgot aspect of my job which is tree ID.

[The Branch Doctor]

:?

Robert, I cannot understand what you are trying to say in your posts. I'm trying to, I really am, but I get lost in translation.

We're not trying to dis you, just comprehend what you're saying... and failing.

[pantheraba]

THere are 5 different cuts in the picks they all look about the same? THese logs are well logs. I dont like cutting tall logs in the back yard, but were harvesting them. I want to be more sure than ever that nothing goes wrong. I kindly agree my holding wood is thin, I dont mean to shine johnseredbred. I think rocky j skwerl brings up a most important and often ill forgot aspect of my job which is tree ID.

XT, I understand what BranchDoctor is saying. In the above post, here is what I don't understand:

What are "well logs"? (healthy, no rot??)

What does "I dont like cutting tall logs in the back yard, but were harvesting them" mean....what is the back yard, a customer's yard? Do you not leave a tall spar because of obstacles? But you are trying to keep them long enough to make lumber? (not a sentence, I know)

Thanks.

[Bounce]

Man, I wish mytreelessons had a section on directional felling we could link to. It would be so useful right now to have some diagrams.

Extreme - No matter what your level of competency as a feller, you could probably benefit from Gerry's book The Fundamentals of General Tree Work. It has the best coverage of directional felling techniques I've ever seen. The pictures and diagrams make it all so easy to understand.

[GASoline71]

Here we go again...:|:

Gary

[sawinredneck]

Here we go again...:|:

Gary

ARE WE THERE YET? ARE WE THERE YET? ARE WE THERE YET?:lol:

[The Branch Doctor]

Been there done that.... again.

[Stumper]

Wher is a trollslayer when you need one?

[GASoline71]

The administrator here is really good at it Justin.. he will be along shortly...

Gary

[gf beranek]

I thought this was a courtesey thread,,,,,

[sawinredneck]

Not sure a Troll slayer is in order, I think a guide for the misunderstood/confused traveler might be more in order.

[GASoline71]

You are correct Andy.

Gary

[sawinredneck]

You are correct Andy.

Gary

Better mark it on you're calander, it doesn't happen very often!!!:lol:

[xtremetrees]

Im getting the feeling I'd be better off taking my notches and videos elsewhere.

[sawinredneck]

Im getting the feeling I'd be better off taking my notches and videos elsewhere.

OK Robert, some are leery of you being a troll, coming here and playing an idiot, and laughing at our responses/taking advantage of the good nature of the site. Some think you just need to slow down when you post, and be a bit more clear about what you are asking.
I'm on the fence, I want to like you, I don't think you are that bad. But between you're arrogance and one post is incoherent, the next one is very legible and easy to understand, it makes one wonder.
Now, these friends of mine have been more than helpful and have befriended me more times than I can count. I know they will gladly do the same for you, if that is what you wish.
There you go, the cards are on the table, nobody here is hiding anything. We just ask you be honest, if there is reason for the sporadic posting, tell us, we are really trying to get along with everybody, and want to!!
Hell, I am an ignorant redneck and nobody makes fun of me any more than I let them:lol: I have no reason to see why they would treat you any differently.
Deal?

[MasterBlaster]

OK Robert, some are leery of you being a troll, coming here and playing an idiot, and laughing at our responses/taking advantage of the good nature of the site. Some think you just need to slow down when you post, and be a bit more clear about what you are asking.
I'm on the fence, I want to like you, I don't think you are that bad. But between you're arrogance and one post is incoherent, the next one is very legible and easy to understand, it makes one wonder.
Now, these friends of mine have been more than helpful and have befriended me more times than I can count. I know they will gladly do the same for you, if that is what you wish.
There you go, the cards are on the table, nobody here is hiding anything. We just ask you be honest, if there is reason for the sporadic posting, tell us, we are really trying to get along with everybody, and want to!!

What Andy said. :drink:

[sotc]

i third andys motion

[vharrison]

Any nay votes?

[TheTreeSpyder]

To me; the tension and pivot components of the hinge are like a bent seesaw lever; but the lever is wide /2dimensional/gives 2 axises of control; rather than just a straight 1 dimensional beam /common lever.

That is for uncut tree or face open on cut tree(tension + pivot support and steer). Then, we have to work in the face closed mechanics (compression + pivot to break tension and steer). Except like a swing dutch that gives compression + tension + pivot to support and steer.MyTreeLessons/Dutch Push in 1 side of Face (http://mytreelessons.com/Dutch%20Push%20in%201%20side%20of%20Face.htm)

[simplypete]

WTF that was a big ol' waste o time..............not even a conclusion to the story

[Blinky]

I'm still not clear on why so much force is necessary to get the trees falling unless you're working against a lean. It's hard to imagine a backyard takedown that would require a loader PLUS a block for MA.
I use a tightline on nearly every tree I fall and usually pulling the belly out of the rope is enough to make the tree start falling.

[Burnham]

I'm still not clear on why so much force is necessary to get the trees falling unless you're working against a lean. It's hard to imagine a backyard takedown that would require a loader PLUS a block for MA.
I use a tightline on nearly every tree I fall and usually pulling the belly out of the rope is enough to make the tree start falling.

Bingo.