What is a good winch line for a chipper??

[Ax-Man]

I am almost committed to saying yes toward the purchase of a different chipper. A used 18 " Morbark 2400 diesel chipper. We tried it out yesterday and a little today. Monday will be the big test if it doesn't rain to much. This chipper is awesome compared to our other Morbark 290.

I haven't crunched any real big wood with it yet that is for Monday doing a Honey Loucust removal. If it does good with this tree it will be good for anything we can throw at it. Tough tree.

Anyway, part of the deal on this chipper is the installation of a used winch with new rope of my choice. I am kind of limited on choices, wire rope which I am going to stay away from, Stable braid, Amsteel, which I am kind of favoring or some brand I haven't heard about called All Gear ( I think). The guy I trust suggested this as they have a nice tighly bound wrapped splice for the hook and chain that holds up good according to him.

I don't have a clue here so this is why I am getting a couple second opinions.

Just on a side note this chipper has a JD turbo in it. This is the smoothest running and sounding diesel I have ever heard. Hardly any vibration while the machine was running from start -up to wind down, it is a very well balanced engine for a diesel and quiet too compared to the Cummings in my other chipper. It has a nice sounding pitch to it also.

Which rope would be good for a winch line???

[No_Bivy]

Amsteel.......:D

[MasterBlaster]

Isn't that about the only rope used for that? Are there that many brands?

[lumberjack]

Samson is the brand, Amsteel is the product. They have a few suitable products although I'd go with Amsteel or Amsteel II. Some other mfg's have similar products as well.

[Mangoes]

Samson is the brand, Amsteel is the product.

And Dyneema is the "active ingredient"



They have a few suitable products although I'd go with Amsteel or Amsteel II.

A product similar to Samson's Warpspeed would extend the life (albeit a bit weaker) of your dyneema product with a braided polyester cover.

[sotc]

im using black widow

[No_Bivy]

me too...300 feet on the spool. I use the 5/16 on the BSG grapple, 13700 break

[vharrison]

Ax, we had a thread like this when I was trying to decide which rope was best. I have looked for it, with no success. I think, at the recommendation here, we bought Amsteel. The coolest thing I found about it was that it floats. I also could not believe the strength of it. We have really put it to the test and it is still holding up fine.

[Frans]

yale is making a rope called 'Ultrex'.

The biggest problem with these ropes is 'picking'. So a tight cover is mandatory IMO. Also the covers help the rope to hold it's roundness so it doesn't flatten out on the spool too much

[lumberjack]

And Dyneema is the "active ingredient"




A product similar to Samson's Warpspeed would extend the life (albeit a bit weaker) of your dyneema product with a braided polyester cover.


I didn't know if the cover would be in the way on the spool or not. On that note, Vallidator would also work. I've used both for some heavy lifting with the GRCS (6-7k lbs on a 3:1).

[Tom_Scheller]

Careful, with a used winch that had cable on it you need to debur before using a rope line.

TS

[Frans]

Careful, with a used winch that had cable on it you need to debur before using a rope line.

TS

good point

[Canuck]

Great thread. I'm working on something similar.

[Ax-Man]

Amsteel seems to be the majority vote here, which is my choice also.

What about this splice holding issue that the sales guy brought up?? How well does Amsteel hold a splice?? Can it be spliced at all ?? I don't have a clue as I can't splice and have to rely on other peoples work. Is there a different way other than slicing to form a union to the chain and hook?? Other than some kind of knot or using clamps.

I have only seen Amsteel on a spool up at the Morbark dealer who also sells arborist supplies. If memory serves me right Amsteel reminds me of that poly rope you see in the hardware stores. I am not doubting it's strength but it appears to be a loose open weave that wouldn't hold a splice all that good. To me it appears that way. Like a 12 strand rope won't hold a good splice compared to a 16 strand or 24 strand rope.

I guess you guys are going to have to enlighten me a little more.

V- I remember that thread now, probaly over at the old TH. I am going through the same thing. The winch is kind of an expensive option, I know you and your hubby had doubts at first but have found it indespensible now that you have one. Hopefully it will work out for me also. Anything to save on extra labor and hopefully be able to do more, different kinds of work with it and save on the back. I know it would have been nice to have one for projects in the past.

Yes, good point about the deburring, Tom. I'll check it first thing. I have seen the winch but can't tell weather it had cable or rope. I was more concerned with how big this winch was and how much it weighed because of the additional counterweight on the rear affecting my tongue weight on the hitch of the truck. Whatever line was in the winch wasn't a concern at the time. I think it had rope in it. It has been about month now since I have seen the winch.

[Tom_Scheller]

Amsteel NEEDS to be spliced, it won't hold a KNOT very well. I'm not a splicer either,, but I would guess that if you bury enough of it, it would hold just fine. Nick?

TS

[Frans]

Amsteel was specially designed to be spliced using the common three strand splice.
It is easy to splice and holds the splice perfectly.


But I would not buy it without the cover as the major drawback is picking

[lumberjack]

Larry, I'd use a locking brummel with a decent tail. You can splice it, we can walk you through it no problemo.

Frans, I've never heard of using a tuck splice with amsteel, it seems specifically designed not to use that kind of splice due to its innate slipperiness.

[Ax-Man]

Thanks LJ and Frans, I have to call them tommorow anyway. Let me find out some more details. The chipper has to go back anyway to have the winch put on. I"ll have more time to get some more details.

I think I know what your talking about LJ. Mike Maas showed me that splice only I didn't do anything with it. Maybe it is time for me to learn some of these simple splices.

[lumberjack]

Simple and secure, nearly impossible to mess up. without it being hugely obvious.

[Ax-Man]

I got my new to me chipper back today with the winch and line installed.

Like I said I had three choices to pick from the Amsteel, New Englands equivilent and this other brand Husky ( I think) . They were all the same as far as tensile strength or close enough let's say that pulling strength wasn't an issue.

All the ropes came pre-packaged and were pretty much the same as far as price goes.

Contrary to all the good advise I got I chose against Amsteel and the New England rope. My decision was based more on how the end of the rope was finished with the splice. The Samson and N.E lines had a plastic thimble on the end and the splice was very loose and open with a few strands of the line interlaced along the side of the thimble to keepthe line attached to the thimble to keep it in place. It was still very loose and kind of sloppy.

It reminded me of a 12 strand True -Blue climbing line I had spliced way back from Sherrill with with a thimble on the end. That didn't last at all because it was a bad idea to begin with, it started to fall apart in no time.

Here are some pics of this other line. Time will tell if I made the right decsion or not as this is a new experience using a winch on a chipper with rop0e verses other winches I have had or worked with using steel cable.

The line I got is a very good seller for the dealer, the chipper - winch guys prefer this one over the Samson and N.E. according to the dealer that is. Like I said time will tell, if this doesn't pan out I"ll have to punt and try again.

First pic shows the splice with an inner sheath, no plastic thimble

Second pic shows the almost 3 foot long protective sheath behind the splice, the other lines didn't have this feature.

The other pics show some custom things I had the dealer put on the chipper. Quickie rig points for a porta wrap or maybe a speedline if needed on the bottom of the chute. A place for a couple of rakes, safety cones , just above the that danger decal is a place for D handle shovel and pitch fork. Maybe someone can get a few ideas from this set-up. Anything to keep tools out of the back of the chip truck.

Another pic just showing the winch mounted on the back of the chipper

Another question?? What is the most common piece of hardware on the end of these winch lines. That chain I asked for is way to long. Too me it is anyway, if the reverse on the wheel doesn't work for some reason, I already have visions of that chain getting sucked into the chipper.:O A shorter chain with a grab hook is what I had in mind. The dealer said the most common thing on the end of these winch lines is a biner. That didn't exactly settle to good with me either. Any comments on this????

[Canuck]

I think a good carrabiner should be fine. Thats what I've always seen on rope winch lines.

[Burnham]

Boy Larry, I see what you mean about that chain! I'd look for some rope to replace all that steel with, and I would go with a cheapish biner, an aluminum one for certain, to hook back on to the rope. I'd consider that short length of rope and the alu buner as sacrificial, and keep a couple of replacements on hand all the time.

[Canuck]

Back to deburring a winch that has been used for steel cable. What would you be looking for and what would be the best way to get the job done?

[Reddog]

Wire brush in a grinder or hand drill. Turn on the winch and remove the burrs as it turns.

[Ax-Man]

Another good point Burnham, I never gave having a short piece of rope a thought along with one of those cheap aluminum biners. I guess that is the old school in me. Overkill in the hardware department. All I asked for was just a few links of chain and small grab hook, I like the idea of a soft aluminum biner.

Canuck, If you can start from scratch look at the reel that does the winding check for dings or sharp little points , next would be the rollers in front of the winch. A steel cable will wear grooves in a roller if the pull is hard enough and rollers are aren't turning from lack of grease. Have to replace them then Small scratches and dings in the rollers if not to severe can be sanded down and polished with some elbow grease or an air tool with fine grit metal polishing sanding disks.

You should be able to feel grooves,rough or sharp point with your fingers

[NickfromWI]

Sorry I missed this thread until just now.

I would always push people toward a dyneema line, either single braid, or like Frans suggested- a double braid that is a tightly woven polyester cover.

Regarding the splice, I wouldn't make your decision based on how long the factory splice is going to last. I would decide based on how easy it will be for you to resplice later when the first one wears out. We have to be honest about what we are expecting of the rope at the end of a winch line, and it really does see some brutal abuse. No matter how they do the splice, it's gonna need to be replaced. Be ready to re do it.

There are a lot of people here that can talk you through this splice, online or over the phone, and it won't take you that long to learn it, and you don't need any fancy-shmancy tools.

So- if you get the single braid Amsteel (or Maxibraid is what Yale makes) you can do a locking brummell, or a simple bury. If you get the double braid, you'll slide the cover back, then splice the core, then snug the cover back up and lock stitch the cover down, leaving the eye itself exposed.

Here's a pic of a rope I spliced in a similar fashion for lumberjack, using parts from pantheraba!

love
nick

[Ax-Man]

Good post Nick and very informative.

Your giving me more credit than I have skills at rope splicing which I have never done. But I am willing to try as that day is going to come sooner or later. I'm all thumbs when it comes to detail work unless it is mechanical.

But I honestly don't think anything I do will look or be as good as what you showed in that pic especially with doing that lock stitching at the end.

You do excellent work. It shows

[Bodean]

We use Kermantle on the winch for abrasion resistance.

I want them to try black widow, How is the abrasion resistance on Black Widow or Amsteel?

[NickfromWI]

Here's another winch line might be worth considerin'..

http://www.gypoclimber.com/showthread.php?t=9592

Deva, regarding your question, dyneema fibers are very tough...not just strong, but also abrasion resistant. They will still get torn up while getting dragged through the dirt, but it will outlast a kernmantle.

Bishop sells Ultrex, which is a dyneema single braid.

love
nick

[lumberjack]

Nick that was one sick splice you did up there!


The gray is the cover of the line, the slice is in it's core, which is susceptible to UV degradation, so Nick took a piece of kernmantle cover from Gary and put it in to cover the sensitive core.

I haven't used the rope much, but when I do, I can't help but smile :)

It's the rope I used in the pine video I posted last week of a job I did last year

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Trees/DSC04662.jpg

[rumination]

Why not just do a core to core splice?