Anyone ever do this?

[MasterBlaster]

Sometimes I'm lazy and I don't feel like pushing so I'll get the top half to lean and pull the bottom half with it. If I woulda cut them shorter I coulda got three but that's just showing off.

I was trying to finish and hit the ground. :drink:

[Burnham]

Never have, Butch. I might be just a little leery of having that russian coupling overhead like that. Works a charm, though...I can see that.

[MasterBlaster]

At no point was I under the load.

[The Branch Doctor]

That's different. I could be wrong but that looks like a "struck by" waiting to happen.

Are there any benefits to using that technique Butch?

[squisher]

That looks pretty nifty, I'm not really seeing how if you set it up properly you could get hit by it? Looks like it would workout real good as long as your LZ had the room for it. Although I'd wonder if it was already leaning over like that from your cut when you were still up there why you wouldn't just finish it off, just to save having to push the lower chunk?

[Skwerl]

I'm always worried about the bounce on pieces like that. I'll cut them that long if I can land them right, and/or if they have enough brush on them to keep them from bouncing.

Although you've probably had a lot more experience than me on those tall slash pines. Nice cuttin'.

[rumination]

That's a pretty neat trick Butch. As long as you stay on the back side of the lean I think it's probably safe enough. Like others have said you need to have the right landing zone for it.


Good to see some new pictures of you at work.

[Jonseredbred]

My thought is that the top piece might prematurely break off and the release force may break the hinge on the second piece towards you.

How do you land the pieces flat with that type of deal? All tree men drop pieces flat don't they??

[The Branch Doctor]

My thought is that the top piece might prematurely break off and the release force may break the hinge on the second piece towards you.

How do you land the pieces flat with that type of deal? All tree men drop pieces flat don't they??

Ummm yeah, every time.:|:

[No_Bivy]

:thumbup: im gonna try it................

[NickfromWI]

Just to clarify I'm seeing this right:

You climb up, make a notch, make a back cut just until the piece is moving, then you stop so the notch closes and the piece sits there.

Then you climb down and make another notch, and drop both pieces in one. It probably busts when it hits the ground.

If I'm following right, it seems like it COULD be risky. Like snap cutting, you gotta know your wood to know how thick of a hinge to leave and all that jazz.

Why not just cut a little further and drop that top piece while you are up there. Is it saving you any time or energy?

love
nick

[MasterBlaster]

Actually, that leaning piece helps it to land flat. THAT drop fell flat as you could please.

[MasterBlaster]

And I was just friggin around, Nick. :drink:

[NickfromWI]

I'd do it!

love
nick

[rbtree]

Sure, I would too....but do agree there's a tiny bit of risk.

I have no problem pushing 16-20 footers, or, make a deep face, and they tip over on their own.

[NickfromWI]

.... or, make a deep face, and they tip over on their own.

I keep meaning to try that one..

love
nick

[MasterBlaster]

That's called "undermining the COG," according to Jerry B. And it works just fine!

[Stumper]

Nick, this is the right way to do it.

[The Branch Doctor]

If you swapped the axe with a poorly maintained, barely running chainsaw that pic would greatly resemble a (haha) tree crew around here.:O

[Frans]

Neat trick, MB. Dont know if I got the balls to do it though.

[sotc]

i dont see an issue as long as theres enough room for the pieces to bounce around when they hit. once the face is closed i dont see a short chunk like that breaking its self loose unless the hinge was nearly cut through. i use rogers trick alot

[Old Monkey]

I've tried something similar. Pine works well with that sort of thing. I am going to try an "S" next.

[MasterBlaster]

That's where I got the idea!

[The Branch Doctor]

i dont see an issue as long as theres enough room for the pieces to bounce around when they hit. once the face is closed i dont see a short chunk like that breaking its self loose unless the hinge was nearly cut through. i use rogers trick alot

What's Rogers trick?

[rumination]

Roger's trick is a very deep face cut to undermine the center of gravity. I think Jerry mentioned that technique in his book as well.

[brendonv]

I think Jerry mentioned that technique in his book as well.

Man,

I've still yet to get one of those books, on the list it goes.

[MasterBlaster]

Yup, you need to get it. Besides being a wealth of info, Jerry could use the positive cash flow right about now. His foot STILL won't let him go back to work!

[rumination]

Here's a link in case anyone wants one of Jerry's excellent books or videos. :)

http://www.atreestory.com/

[FJR]

I have the fundamentals book, but I do need to get more!

That's a neat little trick MB. It seems like it is in the realm of acceptable risk so why not spice up the day a little bit.

It's gotta be nice to work with no snow and ice all over the place :)

[MasterBlaster]

Although it may have looked like it, I telling ya'll there was no "risk" whatsoever.

[Blinky]

I'm gonna try it too, looks interesting. I use the deep face cut on long pieces fairly often.

[wiltingoak]

And who spent most of this last year ambulatory?

Real bright.

[Blinky]

Oh, and Darin... that's just showin' off. :)

[MasterBlaster]

And who spent most of this last year ambulatory?

Real bright.

Reed, is your goal to cast your shit spell on every thread you post in?

I'm about two seconds from classifiying you as a shit stirring troll. :X

[Old Monkey]

Lighten up Reed. You still have friends here. Don't stir stuff up on purpose.

I used the undermining the center of gravity trick yesterday. I got that from Roger as well.

[Ax-Man]

Good one Butch, learned me a new little trick. I have never tried that up in a tree blocking down wood. I've done a similar thing down on the ground with sucess on American Elm cutting two or three notches with thick hinges and not cutting through them. Each notch turning the tree away from a target or getting it into a better position for chipping.

I see nothing wrong with this technique. Pine holds a good hinge for doing this. A tree with good hinge characteristics is ideal for this. A guy with a fair amount experience will have no trouble making a judgement call on when and where to use this.

I give it a :thumbup:

Don't ban Reed Butch. He may stir up trouble but he does give out some very useful info in the tree care threads.

I think he threw that one liner in there to get your blood pressure up a notch or two. Forget it.

[RIVERRAT]

I used the undermining the center of gravity trick yesterday. I got that from Roger as well.
Good O'l Roger is getting credit for introducing something that has been around for some time. I can remember my Grandpa explaining this to me as a little one. Said it was used a lot in camps back in Canada where he was from. Had no clue as to what he was talking about then. I was just a little dude at the time.

Another method, if the drop area is large enough is to side load in the direction you want to go. This will even work for you going against a bit of a lean.
It's done by of course leaving branches on the tree growing in the direction of your desired lay.

Then you just stack more cut limbs on that side for weight. A rope for a groundy to pull with is always better. But if like myself you some times work alone this option can be fast & helpful. Especially on pines & some oaks.

[Frans]

I'm thinking that MB wanted to make a long section fall flat and stick when it hit the ground? By 'breaking' the spring out of it with the cuts?
Is that right?

[RIVERRAT]

I'm thinking that MB wanted to make a long section fall flat and stick when it hit the ground? By 'breaking' the spring out of it with the cuts?
Is that right? No he said he was feeling sub par {lazy} & didn't want to push them over. I think ?

[gf beranek]

Anybody in the business that's been doing it long enough has had the occasional short section tip and not break the hinge. It just hangs there. Like in MBs pic. The tricky part comes with cutting it off so it leaves the cut square. It's too easy to cut off one corner and have that section veer to the holding side. In tight quarters it can present some risk.

Can't say that I've ever set out and done purposely what Butch illustrates though, but that's not saying I haven't done it at all. Fact is a couple of times I took advantdage of the favor that cocked-over section gives. But it was just the situatuion. Can it be called a method? Some people could say so, other not.

Playing around, like in Darin's pic. That's fun.

[MasterBlaster]

Remember, I did it all for shits and giggles. If I was at all concerned about it I woulda put a rope on it. I was just frigging around, muggin' for the camera. ;)

[JonnyHart]

That's a new one to me.
I'll try it sometime. I really don't see any danger so long as you stay out from under it.
Pretty nifty.

[Al Smith]

Of course being somewhat of a ground bound half-fast tree type,I've never tried it .I have however cut the wedge too shallow and the hinge too wide and hung them at about a 45 degree angle.Classic example of a brain fart.

That way you get to wade back in and lick your calf over again,as my wifey dear would say.:)

[rbtree]

I've a photo of Oxman's son standing out on the end of a cypress stick that I had stop at 30 degrees off horizontal.....he wouldn't do a handstand on it, though:O

[Frans]

rbtree, could you provide a picture? Your photo albums show so many pictures, it is too hard to see the one you are talking about

[JIML]

Never tried that but have had piece hang up like that.
alot of times if we leave a tree for firewood I will cut it from in the bucket in to firewood size. Sometimes ill stack 3-4 chunks or whatever I can reach from one position of the bucket ontop of each other. see how many I can get, then push them all at once. usually small stuff, 6-10" diameter, nothing big.

[Old Monkey]

There are lots of different types of trees you can lean over that way. We did a cherry tree that was over some landscaping. I cut a series of narrow faces and had the tree hanging parallel to the ground at about 5' and then just limbed it up. My pict was just for fun but I have put it to practical use.

[sotc]

i have also tipped small trees part way over and limbed and bucked a feww feet off the ground. its nice to stand straight and work

[MasterBlaster]

I know, my ears have been burning ever since I posted them. HAR. Like I GAF.

[pantheraba]

Anybody in the business that's been doing it long enough has had the occasional short section tip and not break the hinge. It just hangs there. Like in MBs pic. The tricky part comes with cutting it off so it leaves the cut square. It's too easy to cut off one corner and have that section veer to the holding side. In tight quarters it can present some risk.

Playing around, like in Darin's pic. That's fun.

Here's one a few years back where I hung one up...didn't mean, too, for sure. It's an ugly cut, I know...it's like Darin and blood...if you can't handle it, don't look.

This is not a freeze frame...it got stuck like this. I never really thought I'd have an excuse to post such a f-up but here it is....( I got it down, OK, but I scratched my head a bit trying to cipher what happened.)

[MasterBlaster]

Uhh, me too! :what:

[RIVERRAT]

I think you may have come in a bit high on your back cut & either your top or bottom cut on your face may not have been true.

[Al Smith]

I don't know too many people who haven't hung one at one time or another. For that matter even the beavers do it on occasion.

[TC3]

I can appreciate that a person with 25 yrs. + experience is bound to push the ballot & try things. Hell, this biz relies on it !
But sorry, Butch... me-no-likey.
I see safety issues with it. Big time. And I'm not really getting the benefits of this type of perforated chunking ?
Sorry to offend. I don't think Reed meant to either, bro. Careful, there are "safety nazis" among us >>> whoops, I'm one of 'em !

[MasterBlaster]

Yeah, Reed never means to offend.

[pantheraba]

I think you may have come in a bit high on your back cut & either your top or bottom cut on your face may not have been true.

High back cut and untrue cuts in the face which left holding wood that I didn't mean to leave...I agree...that was what I deduced, too.

[No_Bivy]

dang Hickory!

[FJR]

dang Hickory!

Yeah and it looks like DANG poison ivy all over it, am i right pantheraba?

[GASoline71]

Yeah, Reed never means to offend.

LMAO...

Gary

[MasterBlaster]

But sorry, Butch... me-no-likey. I see safety issues with it. Big time.


The dickens you say! :drink:

[RIVERRAT]

High back cut and untrue cuts in the face which left holding wood that I didn't mean to leave...I agree...that was what I deduced, too.

Heck if I did perfect all the time I wouldn't be able to help learn ya:D

[gf beranek]

Anytime you're falling stubs that's bound to happen. Especially with a narrow face. Opening it wider can give the work a more room to tip before closing the face, and accordingly more momentum to break the hinge.

Open the face with two 45s and a gap at the hinge and the stub can tip and hit the ground before the face even closes. Often times with the hinge wood still intact.

Again, the tricky thing, or downfall, with falling short sections, stubs, and the like, is getting it to break square off the cut. So many times I've seen these things tip, close the face, stop momentarily, and then cock over to one corner or the other, and end up doing a job on something you worked all day to avoid.

It's the classic, "Last cut, and oops!"

The bottom line is, a stub is more reactive to minor differences in the amount of holding wood in the hinge.

[Burnham]

Anytime you're falling stubs that's bound to happen. Especially with a narrow face. Opening it wider can give the work a more room to tip before closing the face, and accordingly more momentum to break the hinge.

Open the face with two 45s and a gap at the hinge and the stub can tip and hit the ground before the face even closes. Often times with the hinge wood still intact.

Again, the tricky thing, or downfall, with falling short sections, stubs, and the like, is getting it to break square off the cut. So many times I've seen these things tip, close the face, stop momentarily, and then cock over to one corner or the other, and end up doing a job on something you worked all day to avoid.

It's the classic, "Last cut, and oops!"

The bottom line is, a stub is more reactive to minor differences in the amount of holding wood in the hinge.

Every one of us who uses a saw needs to read this post through again and put the wisdom Jer has shared away in a safe place, not to be lost.
:thumbup:

[vharrison]

I agree, we are blessed to have such wisdom on this board.

[Ryan]

8)

[MasterBlaster]

Damn I look good. :drink:

[Thor's Hammer]

Yeah, that looks pretty cool Butch. Like RB, I deep cut the piece, undermining the COG.

[sotc]

that pic looks like you did the same thing?

[RIVERRAT]

Open the face with two 45s and a gap at the hinge and the stub can tip and hit the ground before the face even closes. Often times with the hinge wood still intact.

I do that quite often in an attempt to keep the snag attached to the stump.Works real well with pine & hackberry.

[MasterBlaster]

that pic looks like you did the same thing?


Me? No, I did not undermine the COA. My goal was to just lean the 2nd piece over, like the first, but it didn't work.

This time.

[gf beranek]

That would be cool to see.

[MasterBlaster]

I think if I woulda stepped up and pushed it harder, it woulda worked. The trick is keeping that hinge fat. I'll get it next time.

[pantheraba]

I think if I woulda stepped up and pushed it harder, it woulda worked. The trick is keeping that hinge fat. I'll get it next time.

Hahaha...tree tricks. This could be a great thread.

Don't nobody get hurt, now.

[MasterBlaster]

I like using one (or more) limb to yank another (or more) other limbs out when roping. It always seems to get a comment.

[Old Monkey]

On the right tree, I think you could bend the pieces all the way over to the ground

[JohnB]

know a "contractor" that does all sorts of different jobs. Demolition, horizontal grinding, concrete etc. Recently he had three of his guys removing a Pine. The crew leader who I know, he's no kind of crew leader and shouldn't be on a tree crew. The climber was blocking down the trunk and he told the climber to come down because he thought the 3/4 of the way cut was going to hit the climber? I don't the circumstances, diagnal cut maybe? Well, the crew started his notch at the base while another pushed with a bobcat. The cut piece above fell on the crew leader's head and shoulders and back. He's alive but fucked up. Look I've done some work with these guy's and I not surprised for one second. I'm glad he's going to be ok. Nobody could ever tell this guy anything so maybe this will slow him down.

[MasterBlaster]

He sounds like a maroon, for sure.

[gf beranek]

That sounds like the same story I heard the other day from my friend Greg Liu. He was in New Orleans doing post Katrina clean up and a kid came down out of a tree and they pushed the stub over with a Bobcat. Chunk came down and hit the kid.

Long story short.

Somebody wasn't paying attention to the details on that job.

[JohnB]

There are a ton of post Katrina tree accidents. This one of course did happen in New Orleans so it's very possible it's the same one.
See Jerry, I do post once in awhile.

[gf beranek]

bout time, John

[MasterBlaster]

He's a shy 'lil guy! ;)

[cory]

Hi MB.

I was checking out old threads now that I'm a member, and the pics don't show up in this one. Wonderin why.

It seems like a real interesting topic.

[Skwerl]

Hey Cory, we had a forum software crash last year that wiped out all of the saved pictures and most of the old threads. A lot of good stuff was lost. :(

[cory]

Wow. Bummer! But thanks for the info.

MB if you ever feel like reposting the pics, I'm all ears (and eyes).

[MasterBlaster]

Heck, I don't know where I stashed those pics. Did anyone save them?