spiderlift

[TreeDr]

anyone have one of these? They look kick ass

http://www.teupenamerica.com/industry/tree/index.htm

[lumberjack]

Koa has one, Dave should be getting his any day now.


Leo 15GT and 23GT.

[DTW902]

It is on it's way. Might get my hands on it Thursday. :D

[sotc]

that 23gt looks awesome. some day if im lucky

[DTW902]

I will get the 23GT on Friday. They are flying in late Thursday or early Friday morning to do the transfer and certification.
It's been a long wait. I'm glad it is almost over.(the waiting part). :lol:

[lumberjack]

Dave, does your heart ache to see it? I know mine does :) :D

[sotc]

how long did it take from the time you told them to ship it till now?

[DTW902]

I ordered it April 24th Willie. So almost 8 months.
I don't think the wait is as long now, seems like
they told me that Teupen has added more staff.
So they can get production up.

[sotc]

wow thats a while. dont answer if you dont want. did you make a down payment or have you had to make a monthly since then? pm me if you like. i would like to get one some day just looking for info for future reference
thanks

[DTW902]

Willie I sent them a check for 20K when I ordered it.
The lift has to be paid in full before they will ship from
Germany. So have your financing set up to start when
the lift is ready to ship.
Ryan told me that they have reduced the down payment
to 15K because of the long wait. But the wait should not
be as long now.

My lift is in ST Louis Mo. Will be in Kansas City tomorrow
evening. Scott is flying in Friday morning. The wait is finally
about over. 8)

[Old Monkey]

Merry Christmas Dave. Are they going to gift wrap it for you?

[DTW902]

Merry Christmas Dave. Are they going to gift wrap it for you?

Thats ok Darin. That would just be one more thing to do before
putting it to work.
I will have the camera and get some pics of the new toy. Uuuuum
I mean new equiptment.:lol:

[sotc]

thanks dave, cant wait to se working pics!

[DTW902]

Well got to play a little. Will have to wait until after Christmas for
working pic's. 8)

[brendonv]

WOW!!

[MasterBlaster]

Man, those things just look so delicate! :what:

I like those pads.

[Jonseredbred]

doe that have an upper boom isolator on it?

[DTW902]

The booms on the Spider are almost as big as the booms
on the bucket truck. Very little movement when fully extended.

[Jonseredbred]

how much for the skyworker?

[sotc]

awesome dave. does it telescope at all? does the boom move as fast as a bucket truck?

[DTW902]

awesome dave. does it telescope at all? does the boom move as fast as a bucket truck?


Yes Willie both booms telescope. It is not quit as fast as the bucket truck.
But will make up for it with positioning.

The silver part on the booms is what telescopes out. It is very smooth operating, no jerking around.

[Old Monkey]

That is so friggin' awesome! If I hadn't met you and found out what a nice guy you are I'd be hating you out of jealousy.

[DTW902]

how much for the skyworker?


You like those Skyworkers don't ya Jonseredbred...:D
I am going to keep it, it's been a good rig.

[DTW902]

That is so friggin' awesome! If I hadn't met you and found out what a nice guy you are I'd be hating you out of jealousy.


Thanks Darin
The lift fits in the truck you saw at your place. Now I have to see if I can
squeeze the bobcat and stump grinder in there.

[Rborist1]

Nice rig, Merry Christmas to you!

[Jonseredbred]

You like those Skyworkers don't ya Jonseredbred...:D
I am going to keep it, it's been a good rig.

keep her checked out and safe!!

[Koa Man]

Glad you finally got it Dave. I used my lift to hang drywall in my new shop yesterday. With 19 ft. high ceilings, there wasn't a drywall lift that could reach high enough. I'll post some pictures as soon as I get it downloaded from my wife's camera.

[cybergeek23851]

Glad you finally got it Dave. I used my lift to hang drywall in my new shop yesterday. With 19 ft. high ceilings, there wasn't a drywall lift that could reach high enough. I'll post some pictures as soon as I get it downloaded from my wife's camera.



:lol: Sounds awesome man! :D

[TreeDr]

That thing looks so f'ing cool!! I hope it works well for you.

I want one.

[Koa Man]

Here are the a couple of pictures of the drywall hanging. The drywall contractor is a friend of mine who flew in from another island to do my shop and house. His price for labor and materials are only a little more than what other guys were quoting me for labor only. I had taken the head off the drywall hoist and mounted it on the basket of the spiderlift. It was rock solid and hoisted the 12 ft. long 5/8 in. drywall with 2 guys in the basket with no problem. I will be using the lift to caulk and paint my house also.

[roller]

nice one Dave I hope she earns you plenty!

[Gerhard]

That´s a nice rig.
I´ve worked with such kind of lift´s. We rent them if we need them.

[DTW902]

A few pictures of the lift in action. A removal and some old storm damage.

[No_Bivy]

Awesome. Im jealous:D

[Jonseredbred]

a little too close to the hi voltage line????

[MasterBlaster]

There's no way to gauge that from the pic.

[DTW902]

Some more, day before the storm and big temp drop. Just fighting the wind.
This was a pecan tree removal in a back yard.

[Jonseredbred]

I was asking, not accusing.

look at the first pic, gives a profile.

[MasterBlaster]

It's a tropical delusion... ;)

[No_Bivy]

How do you transport the lift?

[Jonseredbred]

lets hope so, those spiderlifts are lightening rods.

[MasterBlaster]

Awesome. Im jealous:D

No offense, but I'm not. Those spiderlifts just don't impress me. I'm an old fashioned bucket guy, myself. Or just let me climb it. :drink:

[DTW902]

And the next day only in the 20's and sleeting.

[No_Bivy]

No offense, but I'm not. Those spiderlifts just don't impress me. I'm an old fashioned bucket guy, myself. Or just let me climb it. :drink:

I usually climb, buckets don't reach much around here, now a lift that is mobile well, that could be great!

[DTW902]

Last one's for now. :D

[DTW902]

How do you transport the lift?

Here is a pic.

[Skwerl]

Why such long ramps? Is the lift unable to navigate slopes very well?

[DTW902]

Why such long ramps? Is the lift unable to navigate slopes very well?


Because of the incline into the truck Brian. the lift is 20ft long, if I used
shorter ramps the lift would hit the roof of the truck.

[No_Bivy]

I've seen em' transported on a flat bed, I guess they put the outriggers down, then drive out from underneath and then drive lift to wherever. How heavy is that thing?

[Jonseredbred]

back to my old powerline thingee.......................you do know that even a house service can kill you right?

[No_Bivy]

Little to no damage in the yard, nice work.:D

[DTW902]

back to my old powerline thingee.......................you do know that even a house service can kill you right?

Been doing this a long time. We had plenty of clearance. Pictures
can be deceiving. But thanks for the concern. :D

[Jonseredbred]

Been doing this a long time. We had plenty of clearance. Pictures
can be deceiving. But thanks for the concern. :D

good enuff, some guys using manlifts dont know.

[MasterBlaster]

I tried to tell him it was a tropical illusion...

[Al Smith]

I can't say that I've ever seen such a lift as this.Interesting concept, narrow crawler frame with wide stanced outriggers.

[Skwerl]

Clearance rules on service drops are "don't physically touch it". Roofers and painters work within less than a foot of service drops. There is no reason except fear and ignorance to freak out about maintaining 10' clearance from a service drop. He didn't touch the service drop so he's ANSI compliant.
:what:

[DTW902]

good enuff, some guys using manlifts dont know.


No prob I use the bucket if we have to get any closer. :lol:

[Jonseredbred]

Clearance rules on service drops are "don't physically touch it". Roofers and painters work within less than a foot of service drops. There is no reason except fear and ignorance to freak out about maintaining 10' clearance from a service drop. He didn't touch the service drop so he's ANSI compliant.
:what:

I understand your point. Friend of mine owned a large rental house mainly dealing in scissors/manlifts, he had more than 1 burned up unit from a service drop.

[DTW902]

I've seen em' transported on a flat bed, I guess they put the outriggers down, then drive out from underneath and then drive lift to wherever. How heavy is that thing?

It weighs 6800 pounds.

[MasterBlaster]

It weighs 6800 pounds.

As much as my ex! :P

[Skwerl]

It weighs 6800 pounds.


As much as my ex! :P

Oh, did she lose some weight? :lol:

[JamesTX]

Can you tip a manlift over just by jumping around? I don't mean by trying to pickup a big piece of wood, just by using your body weight?

[Skwerl]

Can you tip a manlift over just by jumping around? I don't mean by trying to pickup a big piece of wood, just by using your body weight?

Of course not. Each machine has stated weight limits with lots of safety margin. If you could tip one over with your body weight then there's no way the machine would be able to be sold, and the manufacturer would be sued out of existence by the very first purchaser.

[JamesTX]

Well, I mean, if I start swaying back and forth and actually try to get it tipping over. You still couldn't do it?

What about if I extended it as far as it would go and then start jumping up and down - could I break something?

[DTW902]

Can you tip a manlift over just by jumping around? I don't mean by trying to pickup a big piece of wood, just by using your body weight?

As Brian said James, this lift is very stable. I will admit that at 76ft
it does make you wonder, at first. A mental thing, I am used to looking down
and seeing a 17 thousand pound truck holding the boom.
With this you look down and see a small unit (6800#) and long legs.
Just a different fealing. :)

[Rborist1]

I am considering a spider as well, they just seem a tad pricey right now.........fence sitter here.

Questions:

How is it on turf?

How fast is it compared to a truck mount?

How fast does it "walk/move"?

Have you used it for pruning? If so, does it go through a tree's canopy well?

Was the extra money worth the extra 25ft?

IYO, is it quicker then a good climber?

Build quality?

[MasterBlaster]

:thumbdown:

[DTW902]

I am considering a spider as well, they just seem a tad pricey right now.........fence sitter here.

Questions:

How is it on turf?

How fast is it compared to a truck mount?

How fast does it "walk/move"?

Have you used it for pruning? If so, does it go through a tree's canopy well?

Was the extra money worth the extra 25ft?

IYO, is it quicker then a good climber?

Build quality?


Ok Craig
1.I went threw all this myself. It is track drive, it is great on the lawn unless
you need to make a hard turn. We just throw down a piece of plywood crawl on that and then make the hard turn.
2.It is slower than a truck mount boom so far,(i haven't had it that long).
I think it can be sped up I'll have to let you know on that.
Buuut it has many more functions than a regular bucket truck.
IE, both booms telescope, basket rotates, and they whole machine can move
around in a back yard. That a bucket truck could not even think about getting to.
3. It travels like 1 mph on tracks. Not the fastest but not bad.
4.It works so much better than a standard bucket for pruning. And yes
I do own 2 other bucket trucks. Both booms telescope, so you set up at the outer edge of the tree set the top boom horizontal, you can us the lower
boom to telescope up and down say from 40ft to 20ft and then use the upper boom to telescope into the canopy. Also the bucket rotates so you turn it long ways so the narrow side is going into the canopy(27.5 inchs).
5.Craig 76ft will take care of 95% of the tree's in my area (Southeast Kansas)
in fact 40ft (just the height in the lower boom) will get most of the height you need in my area.
So yes for me it was well worth it. The Spider was basically the same cost
as a 75ft Hy-Ranger bucket truck(65ft boom and 10ft scissor lift). But the Spider will do everything the bucket will do and much more.(go where no bucket truck can go).
6.Is it faster than a good climber NO. But it will work all day everyday day daylight to dusk with a little maintenance. Always there to work (no excuses why they can't come in to work that day). Can work trees that can not be climbed, hazard trees. You can train a bucket/spider operator and keep your
climber working other jobs.
It is a lot easier on your body(it will keep me in the trees a lot more years).
I'm not getting any younger.
6.Build quality is great it is very smooth very stable. Very stable even on hilly or uneven ground, places a standard bucket could not set up.

Hope this answered a few of your questions Craig. :)

[Rborist1]

Dave,

Thanks a million for answering my questions. I really appreciate it. I am sure that more questions will come up in the future. I have a quote from Lenny but I still find it hard to get over the cost of a spider vs a traditional lift with way more metal. Good climbers and just climbers in general are getting really hard to come by up here in oil boom times, so I find myself considering a spider more and more each day.

[DTW902]

I did the same thing Craig. Took me over a year to convince my-self it was the right thing to do.
So far I love it. I will learn a lot more about the lift as time goes by.
If I can answer any other questions about the spider I will do my best to answer them.
Some questions for you and my-self will be answered after using the lift more.
But so far I am very happy. 8)

[MasterBlaster]

OK, you made me like it a little more.

[sotc]

ive been waiting patiently for this thread to continue :) hows the maintenance on that dave? do you really think the 25 feet was worth twice the price?

[DTW902]

ive been waiting patiently for this thread to continue :) hows the maintenance on that dave? do you really think the 25 feet was worth twice the price?

There is a lot more engineering in the 23gt verses the 15gt Willie.
Its not just the extra 25ft in height. But also all the advantages
from 76ft to 20ft.
You can pull it on a trailer with your pickup, no need for a large
truck. That means no extra vehicle insurance.
So far no maintenance issues with it. Just normal upkeep. Fuel and oil.
It compared in price to other 76ft/75ft lifts. But with a lot of other
advantages.

[sotc]

yeah i know its engineed completely as its own design, i just wonder if you feel the extra reach is worth 60k?

[MasterBlaster]

I would think it was worth it.

[DTW902]

I agree Willie its hard to justify looking at it like that.
But you have to compare the other lifts the same.
Like a 45ft lift on a 1 ton chassi. Say 50/60K new.
Verses a 75ft lift on a 33 thousand pound chassis.
For 115K to 125K. Same principle applies.

But for me to answer your question directly, yes it was worth
it for me.

[Old Monkey]

If you had a moment of doubt on that purchase it would kill you.

Good to see it out making money and putting poor hungry climbers out of business.

[DTW902]

If you had a moment of doubt on that purchase it would kill you.

Good to see it out making money and putting poor hungry climbers out of business.

Sorry Darin.
But I have to feed my hungry family......:D

[sotc]

great point, thanks

[Al Smith]

Just a few comments in generalities.The world moves on,technoligies and inovations abound.These machines and their kin are and will replace some what the labor involved.Take for example a feller buncher in the timber cutting business.To get real simple,the common chainsaw with comparrison to the two man cross cut "misery whips".What can happen,will happen.

I myself am involved in the technical end of things but even my way of making a living has been altered.Computer operated conduit benders,hydraulicly operated work lifts,preassembled lighting systems,it all adds up to less labor.The present generation of high speed automated machine tools used in the auto industry can self diagnose malfunctions that may arise.The list is endless.

There will always be a need for skilled and semi skilled workers,in every area of industry but the numbers will be much reduced as time goes on.I don't like it but it's a fact that we all must face up to.:(

[lumberjack]

Pounds of weight per foot of lift:
Manly Lifter= 56' working height 4500lbs= 80.3 lbs per vertical foot
Koa's 15GT= 50' working height 4000lbs= 81.4 ""
Dave's 23GT 75' working height 6800lbs= 90.6 ""

The manly lift reaches the highest with the lowest pound per foot measurement, but cannot move itself.

Pounds of weight per foot of outreach:
Manly lifter 29.16' 4500lbs= 154.3lbs per foot of outreach
Dave's 23GT 35.3' 6800lbs= 192.6 ""
Koa's 15GT 20.4 4000lbs= 196 ""



Since I am bored, I took a look a the surface area covered by the outriggers, and divided by the machines outreach.

15GT 91.6sq ft 20' 5" outreach= 4.44sq ft per foot of outreach
23GT 182.2sq ft 35'4" outreach= 5.14 ""
Manly Lift 203sq ft 29'2" outreach= 6.12* ""

* The manly lifter has a capacity of 500lbs, the spiders have a capacity of 440, unadjusted 6.96sq ft per foot of outreach.

Koa's 15gt reaches the farthest with the smallest area of the outriggers.

Using approx costs of the machines per foot of lift:
Manly lift $30k 56'= $535.71 per vertical foot
Koa's 15GT $50k 50'= $1000 ""
Dave's 23GT $112 75'= $1493.33

Granted, the Manly lifter can't move itself, a big difference, it is an option, $6k I believe, but it doesn't have near the tractive abilities the spiders have.

Comparing the 13GT to the 23GT, to increase the height by 50% you increase the cost per foot by nearly 50%.

Entirely trivial information, just comparing specs is all.

My original point was for Jim, my unit reaches the farthest by weight, has a higher basket capacity, and the risk of flipping it by jumping up and down is moot. Like Dave said, its all a mind game. When I first flew the Manly lifter, I had never flow anything for tree work, I had only climbed. I was terrified, holding on with white knuckles and horrified when I had to stretch all the way vertically to make a cut. After I realized I wasn't going anywhere things became much more productive, and I gained respect for the engineering that went into all lifts. Dave's MAT-3 has a lot of flex, but I still felt safe in it (awesome truck Dave!).

Its wet out and I don't have anything to do till 11!:|:

[Rborist1]

What is the width of your Manly Carl?

[lumberjack]

5'6" wide 6'10" tall.

http://www.genielift.com/tmz-series/tz-50.asp There is a short vid at the bottom of the page and more specs ect.

If I could change one thing about it, it would be the ability to lower the primary boom to the ground while the secondary boom was vertical.

If they made a 75' version (or bigger :)) I would love that also. I have had mine a year and a half now, the only maintenance costs I have had was a $300 dollar motor controller. My went out back in April/May when I had a broke arm. Nothing really exciting, it worked intermitantly, I finished the tree with it. You can bypass the controler on the ground with jumper cables, which is what we did when we were packing it back up.

[Rborist1]

Does anyone know what the 2 spider lifts are priced at in Euro's from the factory? Me thinks that they are soooooooooo expensive due largely to the exchange rate. It's even worse up here in Canada.

[lumberjack]

Um, the exchange rate doesn't change the cost of the unit. A Euro is worth 1.3USD. A Canadian buck is worth .9 of a USD, and a GBP is worth roughly 2 USD.

The cost is the same, you can pay in whatever denomination you prefer.

[Rborist1]

Then why in this article (just delivered in Dec 2006, with a very good USD exchange rate last year) did the spider cost 80K canadian dollars.............it doesn't work out with the usd exchange rate and price of the spider in usd ($53,967.00).

http://www.usask.ca/communications/ocn/07-jan-05/8.php


I didn't mean exchange rate in the 1st post, I meant the high Euro in comparison to the dollar.

[lumberjack]

I dunno, the article made several mistakes on the specs of the machine, I beleive the price is one of those mistakes.

[No_Bivy]

What is the width of your Manly Carl?

56F!!!!!:lol:

[lumberjack]

Ha! Presently 34C or D, haven't decided which.

[No_Bivy]

:D :/: :lol: Both are good

[Jonseredbred]

Ha! Presently 34C or D, haven't decided which.

C is a nice tight handfull.

D's hangout between your knuckles and start getting hard to hang onto.

Post a pic of 'em. I am sure we could view them and start a poll or somthin.:)

[No_Bivy]

I've seen enough to guess size.

[Al Smith]

I ain't a gonna go there.;)

[lumberjack]

I am going with C, but there is an off shot they are D's. I'll eventually slow down enough to figure it out.

[DTW902]

Wow Spider Lifts to womans cup size's, hmmmmmm where's the connection.
Maybe Carl in a Spider Lift with different ladies measuring there cup size. :P
Just get pictures Carl. :lol:

[Rborist1]

Anymore pics of yours Dave?

[Skwerl]

Anymore pics of yours Dave?

His what? Cup sizes? No thanks! :\:

[Rborist1]

His what? Cup sizes? No thanks! :\:

Ditto!:|:

[DTW902]

Not of any other jobs. Keep forgetting the camera.
No tree work the last couple days had to come home,
and take care of some problems with the cattle. :X

[lumberjack]

ROTFL Dave!

[stehansen]

I ain't a gonna go there.;)

Kids.

[lumberjack]

How now, don't be jealous!

[stehansen]

You could tell?

[treetx]

The real advantage with lifts is that you can use less trained labor. So the lift costs more but suddenly labor is more available and cheaper.

I used a lot of Tuepen products in the EU. Some good, some bad. All rentals. They eat turf. Get the remote, you don't want to drive it from the bucket.

.02

[sotc]

Wow Spider Lifts to womans cup size's, hmmmmmm where's the connection.
Maybe Carl in a Spider Lift with different ladies measuring there cup size. :P
Just get pictures Carl. :lol:

oh you didnt get THAT option eh dave?:D

[Koa Man]

If the lawn is dry and you are going straight, it will be OK on most lawns. If I need to make a turn, my 15GT can do a 360 on a single sheet of 4X8 plywood. I used to carry 6 sheets when I first started using the lift, now I only carry 2 and it has been more than adequate.

Regarding the price difference between the 23 and 15, like Dave said, the 23 has many more features that add to the cost, not only the difference in height. You can set up the 23 in a lot more places than the 15 because the outriggers have an elbow vs the straight outriggers of the 15. The bucket will go lower than the knuckle of the boom because the upper boom is offset. You cannot get the bucket on the 15 to go lower than the knuckle and it has been a problem every now and then. I just wish the 23 would be able to go through a 36 inch gate, then that is what I would be flying instead of the 15.

[sotc]

ive been wondering your thoughts koa, thanks. i think here most gates are larger than 36"

[Koa Man]

Many gates here are even 32"....the 15GT is 30.75". I have some customers who have gates that are only 24" and your standard size 26" wheelbarrow can't fit. I had to buy a narrow profile 22" Jackson wheelbarrow for those. The thing that bugs me is that they have the space to make a wider gate, but made a longer wall instead.

[Rborist1]

How often do you use the 15gt? Does it sit idle more then you use it? Has it been worth the purchase? Are you more profitable as a result of having it?

[MasterBlaster]

JUst get one, Craig! You know you want to!!!

[Rborist1]

JUst get one, Craig! You know you want to!!!

I do want one.

I just need tonnes of feedback before dropping some serious cash on something I have never tried. I can get another really nice bucket for the same money.

[395xp]

I do want one.

I just need tonnes of feedback before dropping some serious cash on something I have never tried. I can get another really nice bucket for the same money.

Exactly, I'd like to have a demo for a month to see if it would work in my area. We just ordered our second bucket truck. The spider lift would be interesting but i worry about the room the out riggers need.

[MasterBlaster]

The way I see it, a spiderlift is for access where a regular bucket can't go and the tree can't be climbed.

I would stick with a rear mounted conventional lift and climb the backyard trees. Spiderlifts just don't do it for me.

[395xp]

The way I see it, a spiderlift is for access where a regular bucket can't go and the tree can't be climbed.

I would stick with a rear mounted conventional lift and climb the backyard trees. Spiderlifts just don't do it for me.


One of the draw backs with a rear mount lift is you need room for 4 out riggers. We have a hard enough time finding the room for 2 outriggers. We once snuck a crane in a yard for a dead removal. He was only able to get his rear out riggers 3/4 of the way out. So we took it real small and did not swing anything past the out riggers. We just set it down next to the tree.

[MasterBlaster]

Hmmm. The last rear mount I operated had only two outriggers, but it was only 46'.

[sotc]

bring some cribbing with you ken, you know this im sure but with blocking you dont need to get them all the way out. .05

[lumberjack]

Why is that SOTC? You need cribbing for a crane in nearly every setup... I don't see how cribbing makes a mid span outrigger classify as a full span.


Or are you talking about bucket trucks?

[MasterBlaster]

What is "cribbing?"

[lumberjack]

The blocks or small mats of wood and sometimes steel that goes under the outriggers of a crane to spread the load over a larger portion of the ground.


If he is talking bucket I understand, a crane I do not.

[MasterBlaster]

We call those "outrigger pads."

[lumberjack]

Cribbing is a bit different, I have outrigger pads for my manlift (2'x4' 3/4" plywood screwed together 2-3 thick) but I dont have cribbing. Normally cribbing is 4x4's 2-4' long and boards like 2x6 by similar lengths.

The pads on a crane are normally the part that the cylinder attaches to on top of the cribbing.

Po-tate-o/Po-tat-o

[vharrison]

We call those "outrigger pads."

We do too.

[395xp]

bring some cribbing with you ken, you know this im sure but with blocking you dont need to get them all the way out. .05

There is a sensor on the out riggers so they have to be down a good way. If you use too much blocking the hyd do not go live, and i'm not about to bypass the sensors.

[Skwerl]

Cribbing is different from just pads. Cribbing is for building up an area in order to set the pad, due to slope or obstructions such as curbs, etc. I carry some scrap 4X4 and 6X6 as well as some 2X8 pieces for spanning over curbs or building up the pads if I need to set up on a steep slope.

[395xp]

Hmmm. The last rear mount I operated had only two outriggers, but it was only 46'.


The 75ft truck has 4. We asked the salesman about the rear mount, he said everyone thinks they will sneak it down the driveway past the air conditioners, but they do not have the room for all the out riggers. Its all a trade off.

[MasterBlaster]

Cribbing is different from just pads. Cribbing is for building up an area in order to set the pad, due to slope or obstructions such as curbs, etc.


Good explanation, Brian.

[Jonseredbred]

The real advantage with lifts is that you can use less trained labor. So the lift costs more but suddenly labor is more available and cheaper.

.02

That is an incredibly dumb and dangerous statement.

[NewClimber]

The guys I work for will not even let me sit in the bucket until I prove I can climb well enough to not drop anything on (insert your noun here). I also must learn all the tag line knots and how to position myself most effectively. my.02

[lumberjack]

It makes sense to me, takes 2-3 months to train an effective bucketeer, 2-3 years for a climber.

[Jonseredbred]

It makes sense to me, takes 2-3 months to train an effective bucketeer, 2-3 years for a climber.

Are you even serious?, the learning curve on a bucket is not that short. Equipment does not replace training and experience.

I would not call anyone an experienced tree cutter (climbing or in the bucket) unless they had at least 3 yrs. of full time experience.

[lumberjack]

Am I serious? Yes.

Take a good groundy, or someone with good common sense (equally rare) stick them in a bucket with an experienced person... in 3 months they should have the idea down fairly well. Didn't say experienced, said effective.



By your definition I am inexperienced for another couple of years.

[Jonseredbred]

I have never seen a good bucket man that was not a climber.

what is "effective"? getting a tree on the ground in a pile by the skin of your ass?

I know by your posts that you have alot of smarts, maybe you could be proficient in 3 months but you would also be a rarity.

I disagree to the blatent generalization that if you buy a spider lift (or any of the like) that it will allow you to become quickly experienced.

Peaple who believe that are the cause of why liability and workers comp rates are out of control.

[395xp]

I have to agree with jonseredbred on this. I think most climbers aren't up to snuff til 5 years on a rope. You can have all the equipment in the world but experience is priceless.


Carl
While you make some intelligent posts, i think you are inexperienced. That is not a bad thing, it just comes with time.

[sotc]

well ken figured out what i was talking bout with the cribbing, and it has been explained so ill not say any more on that.

jonesred, i think the idea here is that you can get less experienced people to take down simple removals with learning how to climb. and i do think some one that has never climbed can learn to be an excellent pruner and or removalperson

[Skwerl]

Yes, there are two (or three) distinct areas of expertise required to make a well rounded treeman. First is the climbing ability/ maneuverability in the tree. You gotta get up there in order to do your job. A lift accomplishes this without any special skills.

Second is knowing WTF you are supposed to do once you're up there. Tree biology, understanding how trees react to different types of pruning, the mechanics of how different types of wood hinge and how you can manipulate cuts to fall where you like, as well as how the tree will react in one, two or five years.

Third (and just as important as the first two IMO) is being able to tune, sharpen and maintain your saws. A crappy running, dull saw will cripple the best treemen and many times your well being depends on making a cut in a timely manner, not to mention the reduced scarring on the tree.

A lift gets you up in the tree. But without the knowledge of what to do and the skill to do it, you're not yet a treeman. Just a guy in a lift in a tree.

[Jonseredbred]

jonesred, i think the idea here is that you can get less experienced people to take down simple removals with learning how to climb. and i do think some one that has never climbed can learn to be an excellent pruner and or removalperson

yes, someone can learn, I do not dispute that.

I do not beleive that a specific piece of equipment(as spider lift advertises) can make a untrained person an expert tree worker.

[treetx]

That is an incredibly dumb and dangerous statement.

It is the truth mate. Just because you don't agree doesn't change it from being true :P You may not believe in gravity, but you will still hit the ground when you fall out of that bucket.

A good groundy can be turned into a good bucket flyer in a few days. That is a fact. I have done it.

Flying a lift is not rocket science. It is a quick way to get through some work. Don't make it what it is not. ;)

[sotc]

I do not beleive that a specific piece of equipment(as spider lift advertises) can make a untrained person an expert tree worker.

:thumbup:

[Jonseredbred]

I will simply disagree.

Maybe there is a difference in what we respectively define a "good treeman" as, or possibly tree work alltogether.

Can I put an experienced groundman in a bucket and let him smash down a tree in a back lawn? probably.

Can I put an experienced groundman in a bucket and put him up in high voltage lines and perform a technical takedown. NOT A SHOT IN HELL.

and that my friend is what I am referring to, I might be doing a whole different kind of work than some here.

[MasterBlaster]

I can understand Nathan's point.

[Jonseredbred]

I can understand Nathan's point.

who's nathan?

[MasterBlaster]

TreeTX.

[treetx]

Can I put an experienced groundman in a bucket and put him up in high voltage lines and perform a technical takedown. NOT A SHOT IN HELL.


I am referring to tree care, not powerline care.

I think we are not so apart in our thinking. Can a bucket make a groundy a treeman....NO! But on large contract deadwooding, yes, you can get a good groundy pretty efficient and fast. That leaves your climber to climb while your lift is earning its oats. Not a brush dragger, I mean a groundy who knows his way around a saw.

Tree care can be technical, but lets face it, a lot of it is cleaning up or bashing out 30-50 ft trees.

:beer:

[Jonseredbred]

TreeTX.

he does have a point, I just think we are thinking about 2 totally different types of work. And I do not do powerline trimming.

My bitch is not with any of the member's here it's with the manufacturers of products like these trying to mainstream a product into a industry that it was not initially designed for.

[No_Bivy]

What were spider lifts designed fo', building work?

[MasterBlaster]

That's my guess.

[Jonseredbred]

sure its an adaptation of a manlift.

[Al Smith]

What were spider lifts designed fo', building work?
Perhaps but they would be way too slow.On the Genie,JLG types you just run and rise,no outriggers needed unless on those 80 to 100 foot rigs which are not used that much.

[lumberjack]

Even 80-120' JLG's are outriggerless and driveable anywhere in their operating envelope.

Even the 150' HMAX JLG is outriggerless.

Nifty lift has a unit that has outriggers, its been the only one I have seen. I think outriggers would be handy on setup, getting them level is a pain!

Here we are trying to level a 120' JLG. I am running the controls, Daniel is adding plywood as cribbing. We ended up having to move the lift forward (the top of the tree was just out of the envelope) and stick a equipment trailer ramp under the tire on top of the plywood. The ramp was totalled from the weight. 43k lbs, 26k max on a tire.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Trees/IMG_2017.jpg

[Jonseredbred]

Here it is guys...........straight out.

This is from spiderlifts ad in this month's TCI magazine.

Train Employee's Faster: Instead of two or three years of training to become a skilled tree climber, a ground man can now learn to use a spiderlift in minutes, and become an expert tree worker in three to four weeks.

That is the the most irresponsible advertising I have seen in a long time.

These lifts are marketed towards unsuspecting and inexperienced buyers promising them and I quote " Instant edge: Allows landscapers to instantly add profitable tree services................"

And further it is my opinion that marketing a lift (to be used in tree work) without at least electrical insulation for the operator is complete insanity.

Most tree guys know not to get something like this near any conductor, but when you are blatently marketing to inexperienced buyers are we sure they know not to??

Mark my words, these will be a blight on our industry and insurance rates in the years to come.

[MasterBlaster]

Ha!

[treetx]

Yeah, those cats at Teupen are out there. They had a bogus article in TCI a while back about how tree climbing is illegal in Germany and all work is done with lifts. Then the author went blabbering on about the autobahn and his experience in this foriegn country. He sounded like it was the 1st time he left his state.

Which is uh...err......wrong. Tree climbing is very legal there.

[No_Bivy]

Yeah, those cats at Teupen are out there. They had a bogus article in TCI a while back about how tree climbing is illegal in Germany and all work is done with lifts. Then the author went blabbering on about the autobahn and his experience in this foriegn country. He sounded like it was the 1st time he left his state.

Which is uh...err......wrong. Tree climbing is very legal there.

I was wondering about that?

[lumberjack]

Teupen's salesmen suck at life, I rarely read their advertising.

Their sales pitch was near insulting when I have talked to them in person.

[Rborist1]

Teupen's salesmen suck at life, I rarely read their advertising.

Their sales pitch was near insulting when I have talked to them in person.

Do go on....................:?

[DTW902]

Its just a tool, another tool for us to use. whether I hire a climber or buy a lift they all have there ups and downs. All equipment has a learning curve. It should be used properly.
Screw up climbing and it can kill ya, same goes for equipment screw up and it can kill you also.
There are many lifts out there that are not dielectric, do not use these around power. Having a dielectric boom does not mean you won't get hurt.
Get a limb across the phases and you'll see what I mean.
The Spider Lift will allow ME.... And my family business to expand and stay
a family business. It will allow more productivity for us without hiring another
worker with all the insurance/work comp and ex-uses why they can't work.
We chose to mechanize to get more work done instead of more workers.
Can you design a piece of equipment and idiot proof it for every person out there NO. Just train to use the equipment and use it like it was designed to be used.

[Rborist1]

Well said Dave.

[Koa Man]

How often do you use the 15gt? Does it sit idle more then you use it? Has it been worth the purchase? Are you more profitable as a result of having it?

I would say it sits more than I use it, but when I do use it, it is very productive. I bought this lift mainly for palms, which I hate to climb. 50' WH will not reach the top of 40% of the palms I do, but it will get me 3/4 of the way there, making for a short 10-20 ft. climb instead of 60-70 ft.

MB,
Regarding just climbing the back yard trees, I have done a few jobs with the lift which was strictly cutting back trees encroaching my customer's property from neighboring lots. It would be very extremely difficult, if not impossible to do these kinds of jobs by climbing. The branches we were cutting were 1 to 3 inches in diameter....not enough to support a climber's weight. I was also able to safely remove a dead eucalyptus that was over a house that no one wanted to climb. I squeezed the lift through a 32 inch gate and was able to remove the 70 ft. tall tree with no damage. I used pole tools to set the lowering line high and cut the branches with a pole saw till it was at bucket level.

Bottom line is I am glad I bought it and even though I use it an average of only 5 days a month, there is no replacement when I do need it.

Regarding the question of set up area, the 15 GT only needs 7.9 ft. width for the outriggers.

[No_Bivy]

A three in dia limb is plenty strong to climb on. 1in? that might be pushing it-Polesaw.

[Koa Man]

A three in dia limb is plenty strong to climb on. 1in? that might be pushing it-Polesaw.

Not if there in nothing above it to tie in to and the branch's point of origin is 10 ft. from where you are cutting. Keep in mind this is encroachment trimming. Going over the property line is trespassing unless the owner gives you permission. Some of these owners are difficult for my customer to contact or don't want someone climbing their trees.

[lumberjack]

Do go on....................:?

They went on and on how German engineering far exceeds my country's engineering.

I asked "What would happen if this fitting was knocked off?" Refering to a hose fitting on the cylinder of the outrigger. They said it was nearly impossible for it to be hit, I provided a resonable senario, they scoffed and said I was crazy. (The answer was if the fitting was knocked off the outrigger would go limp pressing down, but would still be able to pick up.) Then they mentioned how someone in the mother land dropped a chunk on the outrigger, bent the cylinder, but drove the outrigger into the ground with no (visible) damage. They again went on saying how superior their engineering was to mine.

They don't seem to talk to you one on one, when I talked (the first year) I was talking to 2-3 salesmen. I would ask a question, one would start to answer it, the other(s) would chime in bouncing back and forth agreeing with one another. Makes it hard to keep a fluid dialog going to say the least.


This year they remembered me. I leaned against an outrigger while I was talking to them and got a lovely red stripe across my ass. The paint came off! (Nothing too dramatic, except I had a red stripe on my ass in a gay park, thank God it was over run with tree folks.)

[Al Smith]

A little clarification regarding this "Superior " design thing.I will grant you a majority of German made products are very well made,I can't deny that.Most of the damned stuff uses parts that are OEM or not replaceable other than through the original manufacturer.I could compile a list that would likely overload the server on this subject.

The stuff made in North America is every bit as good,as a general rule.We have been led to believe otherwise through years of advertising propaganda.

I'll let you in on another little tid bit of info.US manufacturers often fudge about the domestic content of the components in for example an automobile.Some of it comes from places like Mexico,Korea,Japan etc.
Well guess what,Germany has lower priced places also such as Poland,Turkey,Romania that's the part the salesmen don't want to talk about.

[MasterBlaster]

The krauts are pretty much the kings of the world when it comes to engineering like that. They ARE the best! I'll take a Benz over ANY vehicle. Just like the japs are the masters of electronicia. I'm not real sure what americans are famous for... fast food, maybe?

[wiltingoak]

An ex-machinist from pre-glasnost Poland may be able to work miracles from scrap iron, but getting him to do it on schedule and exact is a whole 'nuther story.

[wiltingoak]

We're famous for exported t.v. shows.

While drink once, and a couple other things added, Gilligan's Island dubbed with Mandarin Chinese was one of the funniest things I ever saw.

[Al Smith]

Well you can't compair a Mercedes with a Ford or Chevy,that's for sure.I'll bet you can compair this Spider lift with a Genie or JLG though.

In world of high speed production machinery,the stuff made in Germany,such as Telanhaus,Heller,Tyson group is no better than Cincinati milicron,or Landis,it's just a lot cheaper.

Oh,did ya know,Mercedes-Bentz is the oldest manufacturer of automobiles in the world.It wasn't uncle Henry Ford,he was about 4th or 5th.;)

[lumberjack]

About the only thing the spider has over America is the narrow widths it sucks up.

America is very good at whooping ass, then spending years and billions to rebuild.

[wiltingoak]

That Henry Ford thing.

In grade school I was told he "invented" the automobile.

Been filtering the bullshit ever since.

[MasterBlaster]

Ford invented the assembly line, not the automobile.

[wiltingoak]

Found that out in junior high.

Also a few other things they were "wrong" about.

[treetx]

Well guess what,Germany has lower priced places also such as Poland,Turkey,Romania that's the part the salesmen don't want to talk about.

Are you talking about my TDI VW Jetta. Engine made in Poland, car assembled in the Puebla, Mexico plant.

:)

Germany never really prides themself so much on the fact that they are turning the screws, etc. They instead pride themselves on the fact that they have the intellectual knowledge and property to export and that they do so well with so few natural resources.

Like it or lump it, without the Germans, man would never have walked on the moon and there would be no such thing as nuclear bombs.

America has never excelled at producing scientists and engineers near as much as it has excelled at getting the best from the world to come here. That is a horrible thing about the new "Homeland", it makes it very difficult for those with knowledge to come here and share. It is where in the end, we will loose and technological advantage we had.

As far as the Polish -

Heute gestolen, morgen im Polen.

Vacation in Poland, your car is already there... :new-alien:

[Al Smith]

Oh,I'm not bad mouthing Germany in any means,I just think the whole thing got blown out of proportion.My father is half English,half German,so I don't know what that makes me.Heintz 57 ,perhaps.

Old Henry Ford stole or "borrowed " the assembley line idea from the Chicago meat packers.

[DTW902]

Here is a couple of pictures of the better half up 76ft, had the boys take
a picture as it will probably be the last time she is up there. She was ok
until I started bringing the top boom down. :D

[MasterBlaster]

What happened???

[DTW902]

The bucket automatically levels. So as I was bringing the top boom down the bucket would tip slightly and then level out. She thought I was messing with her. She (Cari) is not crazy about heights anyway.

[No_Bivy]

Spider "divorce" Lift!!! Be careful, it might be like the "tandem divorce boat", aka:canoe hahahahaha!

[roller]

How quick is it to level up the legs Dave? and is their a knack to it?

[DTW902]

Lee it is a piece of cake to set up. Swing the legs out(they lock in place).
Push two switch's one is a dead man switch. The other is the auto level valve.
Drop the legs down close to the ground (all four legs come down at the same time in auto). Put your outrigger pads down, go and push the auto level
switch. Only takes about a minute or two to set up.

[Old Monkey]

Does it have an auto destruct switch? In case it falls into the wrong hands.

[DTW902]

That might work. Or just have the basket turn upside down at about 50ft, and then disable itself. And send out a homing beacon....:D

[Old Monkey]

Man those German's think of everything!

[DTW902]

Man those German's think of everything!
Just make sure you are a authorized operator. :D :lol:

[roller]

Lee it is a piece of cake to set up. Swing the legs out(they lock in place).
Push two switch's one is a dead man switch. The other is the auto level valve.
Drop the legs down close to the ground (all four legs come down at the same time in auto). Put your outrigger pads down, go and push the auto level
switch. Only takes about a minute or two to set up.



Wow auto level,great invention,I can see myself with a spider type lift,within the next year or so..

[MasterBlaster]

Not moi. I'll stay old school lifts.

[Burnham]

Not moi. I'll stay old school lifts.

Why am I not surprised? :lol:

[MasterBlaster]

I just think they're more of a PITA to set up, and they move too slow.

[Burnham]

I just think they're more of a PITA to set up, and they move too slow.

Now it sounds like you're talking about ME! :cry:

:)

[tntree]

Youve been set up B4 Burnham?

[lumberjack]

I just think they're more of a PITA to set up, and they move too slow.

Mine takes 1 minute or less to setup on any terrain that doesn't require cribbing (fairly rare occurrence).

They are slower than a bucket truck, but with the way they articulate and their capabilities with a highly reduced weight and expense to operate make it worth it to me, YMMV and that's ok!

Carl

[Koa Man]

The fastest and highest reach bucket in the world is useless if it cannot get to the job site.

[MasterBlaster]

I agree. Climbers have been around a lot longer than ariel lifts. ;)

[Burnham]

Youve been set up B4 Burnham?

Maybe we best not go there...:D

[stehansen]

I rented a 34' spiderlift to take down a bunch of Italian Cypress trees in a back yard and it worked great for that. Then I used it to clean the mistletoe and trim a Modesto Ash tree also in the same yard and I found it to only slightly easier than climbing the tree. I realize that there is a learning curve with anything and I was definately on the bottom part of that. What I didn't like was that it didn't extend very far from the base, compared to a bucket truck. You could only work a small area of the tree pretty much right above the lift and consequently I was always dropping stuff on the lift, and you had to move it quite a few times. I dented up a few things, but they didn't say anything when I brought it back. With the insurance it came to $220/day. I used it for 3 days, but they only charged me for 2 since it had rained one of the days that I had it. Another thing I didn't like about it was you had to push really hard on the switches or it wouldn't move. I know...nag, nag, nag.

[MasterBlaster]

I really don't think they were designed to do tree work.

[395xp]

What I didn't like was that it didn't extend very far from the base, compared to a bucket truck.

I removed a 4k Locust tree on Tuesday, We pulled the bucket in the neighbors yard and i reached the whole tree while reaching over 2 garages.

The advantage is sneaking into smaller yards, but a bucket truck can still haul wood and chips. Until the prices come down i can't see it.

[treetx]

Good point Ken, the bucket truck can haul wood chips and a chipper so the lift is a 2nd trip or 2nd tow vehicle.

These things come in all sizes and ages. We used these on large contracts in Germany where we would be in the same place for a few days or weeks.

I have used spider lifts to go 90ft up. Of course, that is only like 50ft to the side.

[Jonseredbred]

Here it is guys...........straight out.

This is from spiderlifts ad in this month's TCI magazine.

Train Employee's Faster: Instead of two or three years of training to become a skilled tree climber, a ground man can now learn to use a spiderlift in minutes, and become an expert tree worker in three to four weeks.

That is the the most irresponsible advertising I have seen in a long time.

These lifts are marketed towards unsuspecting and inexperienced buyers promising them and I quote " Instant edge: Allows landscapers to instantly add profitable tree services................"

And further it is my opinion that marketing a lift (to be used in tree work) without at least electrical insulation for the operator is complete insanity.

Most tree guys know not to get something like this near any conductor, but when you are blatently marketing to inexperienced buyers are we sure they know not to??

Mark my words, these will be a blight on our industry and insurance rates in the years to come.

And I dont mean to be insensitive to an accident but here is proof of my point on these lifts.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=579919#post579919

and the news article....

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007701250406

[MasterBlaster]

Good point Ken, the bucket truck can haul wood chips and a chipper so the lift is a 2nd trip or 2nd tow vehicle.


I want a rear-mounted flatbed bucket truck. Frig those combo units.

Not my cup of joe.

[Jonseredbred]

I want a rear-mounted flatbed bucket truck. Frig those combo units.

Not my cup of joe.

Buy one of mine ! spend some of your money !

[MasterBlaster]

Man, I love JLH!

[Bodean]

Dittotally.

DAMN.

[stehansen]

I really don't think they were designed to do tree work.

Absolutely, like lumberjack said one hit on the outrigger hydraulic fitting and you would be tipping over. I'm assuming that they were designed for construction worker lifting.

[lumberjack]

They sure work ham dandy for limited access treework.

[stehansen]

They sure work ham dandy for limited access treework.
Yup

[DTW902]

I rented a 34' spiderlift to take down a bunch of Italian Cypress trees in a back yard and it worked great for that. Then I used it to clean the mistletoe and trim a Modesto Ash tree also in the same yard and I found it to only slightly easier than climbing the tree. I realize that there is a learning curve with anything and I was definately on the bottom part of that. What I didn't like was that it didn't extend very far from the base, compared to a bucket truck. You could only work a small area of the tree pretty much right above the lift and consequently I was always dropping stuff on the lift, and you had to move it quite a few times. I dented up a few things, but they didn't say anything when I brought it back. With the insurance it came to $220/day. I used it for 3 days, but they only charged me for 2 since it had rained one of the days that I had it. Another thing I didn't like about it was you had to push really hard on the switches or it wouldn't move. I know...nag, nag, nag.

Which Spiderlift did you rent Steve(model). If it was only a 34ft lift it probably would not have much side reach. Was it actually a Spiderlift or another make? KOA's 15GT has almost 21ft side reach. My lift has right at 36ft side reach at 40ft height (13ft to 40ft height is 36ft side reach).
Both booms on mine telescope, so anywhere from 13ft to 40ft you can telescope horizontally into the canopy and back out.
It's all about set up with these lifts. You don't have to work the whole tree from one place (set up). Like you would with a conventional bucket truck, because you are lucky to even get them close to the tree, in backyard, difficult access spots.
With the 23GT you work one side, boom down lift the out riggers drive to the other side, set the outriggers down and boom up and work the rest of the tree. All with out getting out of the bucket.
Hell if it is a front yard tree, easy access, I'll use the regular bucket, drop it, pull the bucket out. Pull the grab truck in load it and head to the next job.
The Spider is for the jobs you could not even think about getting the regular bucket to. No access or to wet of a lawn, on the side of a hill ect. 8)

[Jonseredbred]

Man, I love JLH!

yah we watch her on "boob whisperer" every friday night

[MasterBlaster]

It's just kinda odd lusting after a male's avatar.

[Jonseredbred]

It's just kinda odd lusting after a male's avatar.

hah ! thats why I did it:D

[MasterBlaster]

That sounds kinda weird.

[Jonseredbred]

That sounds kinda weird.

yah, but your the guy lusting, not me:P

[zzr1200]

Absolutely, like lumberjack said one hit on the outrigger hydraulic fitting and you would be tipping over. I'm assuming that they were designed for construction worker lifting.

You should be able to remove both hydraulic pipes/fittings while the the machine is set up without effecting the stability of the machine .

In the block that the fittings attach to is a check/lock valve that closes to hydraulically lock the cylinder piston. The check/lock valve requires a pressure input from the machines hydraulic circuit to open, this is of course providing that no one has tried to adjust the lock valve or it is damaged.

Why is a construction worker less likely to damage a hydraulic fitting pipe than a tree worker?

[zzr1200]

They went on and on how German engineering far exceeds my country's engineering.

I asked "What would happen if this fitting was knocked off?" Refering to a hose fitting on the cylinder of the outrigger. They said it was nearly impossible for it to be hit, I provided a resonable senario, they scoffed and said I was crazy. (The answer was if the fitting was knocked off the outrigger would go limp pressing down, but would still be able to pick up.) Then they mentioned how someone in the mother land dropped a chunk on the outrigger, bent the cylinder, but drove the outrigger into the ground with no (visible) damage. They again went on saying how superior their engineering was to mine.

.

Salemen only sell the things, very few will know their arse from their elbow, don't expect them to answer technical questions about machine design/safety, ask the service engineer!!!

[MasterBlaster]

Why is a construction worker less likely to damage a hydraulic fitting pipe than a tree worker?

Are you serious? What happens when you cut a limb or chunk of wood? Does it float up? Construction scenerios usually don't involve repeatedly dropping/lowering things to the ground.

[zzr1200]

Are you serious? What happens when you cut a limb or chunk of wood? Does it float up? Construction scenerios usually don't involve repeatedly dropping/lowering things to the ground.

MB, just the answer I was expecting.

A tree worker will understand these things, in my experience most construction workers only see the job they are doing, not whats going go around them.

ie: they will drive machines across lawns, flower beds and soft ground then wonder why the machine sinks up to its chassis and bypass tilt alarms/sensors just to get the job done.

They only look at the bit they are working on, not the whole working area.

PS. I would say a tree worker is safer than a construction worker any day, yes there is a possibility of damage from falling objects but the worker will/should be aware of this and make allowances.

[pete mctree]

They only look at the bit they are working on, not the whole working area.

Good point, however some basic guarding on the pipes on the ones i've seen would be a bonus. Some people are not so carefull dragging brash as they are dismantling the tree.

[zzr1200]

Good point, however some basic guarding on the pipes on the ones i've seen would be a bonus. Some people are not so carefull dragging brash as they are dismantling the tree.

Pete, I can't see anyone managing to break a hydraulic union just by manually dragging brash over it, I will agree that some unions could be better protected but its all down to build costs and design constraints.

[Koa Man]

I want a rear-mounted flatbed bucket truck. Frig those combo units.

Not my cup of joe.

I agree. I had a forestry unit at one time. Sold it and got a material handler with no chip box. Once you filled at tiny 10-12 cu. yd. box on the combo unit and you need to dump it, you lose your lift and chip truck. With separate units, you can keep working. A forestry unit, IMHO is only good for line clearing work.

Having owned both a spider lift and a bucket only truck, the spider lift is far more versatile and if I could only have one, it would be the spider. If I only worked in areas large enough for a bucket truck, then that would be my choice. What you get really is dictated by the area you work. Any lift is useless if it cannot get to the work area.

[roller]

Why is a construction worker less likely to damage a hydraulic fitting pipe than a tree worker?


Construction work usually involves things going up,tree work involves things going down more often than not

[395xp]

I agree. I had a forestry unit at one time. Sold it and got a material handler with no chip box. Once you filled at tiny 10-12 cu. yd. box on the combo unit and you need to dump it, you lose your lift and chip truck. With separate units, you can keep working. A forestry unit, IMHO is only good for line clearing work.


What makes the flatbed so much better than a forestry package? We very rarely chip into ours, we mainly use to load wood into. Since our truck has the long boom (65ft) , the chip box is allot bigger than the standard forestry box. We always run multiple trucks with one crew so we just chip into something else.

[Jonseredbred]

What makes the flatbed so much better than a forestry package? We very rarely chip into ours, we mainly use to load wood into. Since our truck has the long boom (65ft) , the chip box is allot bigger than the standard forestry box. We always run multiple trucks with one crew so we just chip into something else.

not working over cab or chip box.

[zzr1200]

Construction work usually involves things going up,tree work involves things going down more often than not

Roller I fully agree with you, but the amount of damage construction workers do looking/going up is unbelievable at times.

I personally fitted £600-00 worth of power track parts to a Genie 85 ft machine only to have the numpty worker rip the new parts off before I had packed away my tools and yes he was only looking up.

Demolition workers also use mewp's, we don't have half the amount of damage construction worker cause, its not the industry its the operators that cause the damage.

Now don't get me started on steel erectors they are something else............:O

[395xp]

not working over cab or chip box.

Thats it? Thats why the cab has a cage over it and no one sees the dents on top of the chip box.

[Jonseredbred]

Thats it? Thats why the cab has a cage over it and no one sees the dents on top of the chip box.

a rear mount will yield you about 6' to 8' more in reach due to it being able to back in closer, or a larger, unobstructed drop zone.

and a rear mount may be shorter wheelbase making area's more accessible

[MasterBlaster]

And it's lighter.

[395xp]

And it's lighter.

Not really, allot more steel is added to reinforce the frame on a rear mount, plus you need to add in the weight of the extra set of out riggers. So the weight difference is negligible.

[Jonseredbred]

Not really, allot more steel is added to reinforce the frame on a rear mount, plus you need to add in the weight of the extra set of out riggers. So the weight difference is negligible.

not really alot more steel, 1 extra crossmember. plus the outriggers on a reg. rear mount.

my elevator units are super heavy though, alot of steel in the elevator.

your chip box and hoist weigh an easy 3500#

try a rear mount for a while, you will hate the forestry unit after that.

[395xp]

a rear mount will yield you about 6' to 8' more in reach due to it being able to back in closer, or a larger, unobstructed drop zone.

and a rear mount may be shorter wheelbase making area's more accessible

I agree with getting closer to the tree, that 8 ft difference, could mean allot in some cases. As far as the shorter wheel base making things more accessible, i don't really buy that. It will make things easier, but the truck will either fit or it won't. The one we just ordered is on a GMC, the new GMC trucks have a great turning radius.

If i was ordering it i probably would have opted for the rear mount, but the boss does not get paid until the job is cleaned up, so we need all the chip and wood room we can get, since our dump spots are so far away.

[395xp]

not really alot more steel, 1 extra crossmember. plus the outriggers on a reg. rear mount.

my elevator units are super heavy though, alot of steel in the elevator.

your chip box and hoist weigh an easy 3500#

try a rear mount for a while, you will hate the forestry unit after that.


When i went up to Ariel lift in Ct a while back, there was allot more than just 1 cross member added to the frame. I'm talking Mucho steel to keep it from twisting.

I have not seen an Altec rear mount, so i do not know what they do to reinforce the frame. On the Altecs the forestry unit has 2 out riggers while the rear mount has 4, so that is another concern. You need additional room to set up a rear mount.

With the weights we are talking here i say 3,500 lbs is negligible. I'd be more than happy to try a rear mount for a while, but it looks like i would have to change employers to do that.

[Jonseredbred]

When i went up to Ariel lift in Ct a while back, there was allot more than just 1 cross member added to the frame. I'm talking Mucho steel to keep it from twisting.


yes, your right. I wasn't thinking of ALC's 60 footer on a 90" cab to axle. That would take alot of reinforcing.:|:

I dont have anything that new.:(

The older 50' ALC's on a standard whlbase truck only had 1 set of riggers and a boxed off rear section of frame and an extra crossmember to box in the one piece unit.

here is a shot of a rearmount job set up............

[MasterBlaster]

What is that headache rack covered with?

[MasterBlaster]

Not really, allot more steel is added to reinforce the frame on a rear mount, plus you need to add in the weight of the extra set of out riggers. So the weight difference is negligible.


Hey, I googled it. :roll:

Not all rear mounted lifts have four outriggers. Trust me.

[Jonseredbred]

Ribbed steel, I bought it that way. Sucks at traffic lights

Heavy, but boy does it take a beating!!

[395xp]

Hey, I googled it. :roll:

Not all rear mounted lifts have four outriggers. Trust me.


I'm only referring to 75 ft Altecs.

[Skwerl]

I've always observed that the over-center units typically had 4 outriggers while the booms that didn't fold over center typically had 2 outriggers. Rear mount or center mount didn't necessarily dictate the number of outriggers.

And anything over 65' is probably going to have four outriggers. That's a lot of leverage out there.

[395xp]

Ribbed steel, I bought it that way.

Heavy, but boy does it take a beating!!


not working over cab or chip box.


:lol:

[Jonseredbred]

:lol:

I know, I know, dont rub it in.

but the ALC style elevators put you back over the cab @ 70'

[395xp]

I know, I know, dont rub it in.

but the ALC style elevators put you back over the cab @ 70'


But now your back over center, so its the same thing as if you had a forestry package as soon as you go for the height.

I'm sorry, but i do not see the advantage in this case. Do the new rear mounts work the same way?

[Jonseredbred]

ALC's still use the elevator as shown. In the pic most of the pic was done without the elevator so the rear mount was useful. I just put the elevator up to grab the top. A better set up would have been to drive the truck in to better use the ele.

Terex has the scissors that go straight up.

[DTW902]

What makes the flatbed so much better than a forestry package? We very rarely chip into ours, we mainly use to load wood into. Since our truck has the long boom (65ft) , the chip box is allot bigger than the standard forestry box. We always run multiple trucks with one crew so we just chip into something else.

Ken I would only own a rear mount bucket truck. They both have there place but I prefer the rear mount. We sold our forestry unit last year. There is more options backing in most of the time, you can back right up to a garage/house for instance, with a forestry unit you would loose the cab length or the chip box length.
Our rear mount only carries gear and the bucket the grab truck does all the wood hauling whether thats chips and wood or just brush and wood. The bucket does not have to leave to get rid of its load. It stays on the job and the brush gets stacked were the grab can get it. And the bucket moves to the next job. My rear mount only has 2 outriggers at the back, but it is only a 50 footer, over center both booms.

[395xp]

What is that truck, an old international? When i first started working for my Current boss the pride of his fleet was a 62 international.:D

[Jonseredbred]

What is that truck, an old international? When i first started working for my Current boss the pride of his fleet was a 62 international.:D

Yes, it is a 73 International. Original 25,000 mile truck. Was factory built as bucket truck. It is an absolute gem. Just as it was the day it was new.

[MasterBlaster]

And the bucket moves to the next job.

Another good point for going with a rear mount, or at least a dedicated bucket. :drink:

[Jonseredbred]

Here is a better shot of the 'ol girl.

[395xp]

Ken I would only own a rear mount bucket truck. They both have there place but I prefer the rear mount. We sold our forestry unit last year. There is more options backing in most of the time, you can back right up to a garage/house for instance, with a forestry unit you would loose the cab length or the chip box length.
Our rear mount only carries gear and the bucket the grab truck does all the wood hauling whether thats chips and wood or just brush and wood. The bucket does not have to leave to get rid of its load. It stays on the job and the brush gets stacked were the grab can get it. And the bucket moves to the next job. My rear mount only has 2 outriggers at the back, but it is only a 50 footer, over center both booms.


Agreed the rear mount will get you 8-10 feet closer, but to me the difference ends there. All the saws, climbing and rigging gear is on my pick up truck. If we are running the bucket truck, we still have another truck towing the chipper and a wood truck towing the stumper. As soon as the tree is down i send the bucket out of there, on his way to the next job , where i will meet him. The rest of the guys stay and clean up. We try and only put good wood in the bucket that can be dumped at the yard for fire wood. When it does have a crap load on it. Some one goes in early the next morning to dump the truck, then i'll do a rope job first to give the bucket a chance to catch up.

I'm not against the rear mount, I'm just playing devils advocate. Your way works for you, and our way works for us.

[395xp]

Another good point for going with a rear mount, or at least a dedicated bucket. :drink:

But options are always good, if the chipper truck is down in the shop, we can always chip into the bucket so we are not sitting home. There are days the bucket goes out and does not get used except as a wood truck, again it is nice to have options.

[DTW902]

Agreed the rear mount will get you 8-10 feet closer, but to me the difference ends there. All the saws, climbing and rigging gear is on my pick up truck. If we are running the bucket truck, we still have another truck towing the chipper and a wood truck towing the stumper. As soon as the tree is down i send the bucket out of there, on his way to the next job , where i will meet him. The rest of the guys stay and clean up. We try and only put good wood in the bucket that can be dumped at the yard for fire wood. When it does have a crap load on it. Some one goes in early the next morning to dump the truck, then i'll do a rope job first to give the bucket a chance to catch up.

I'm not against the rear mount, I'm just playing devils advocate. Your way works for you, and our way works for us.

It's all cool Ken thats what these discussions are for. 1 other note on your setup would be all the added weight of the wood. That adds up when pulling into a yard or on a driveway.
But thats why we bought the Spiderlift to get in those soft yards concrete is less concern, no crushed or broken sprinkler pipes ect ect.

[MasterBlaster]

it is nice to have options.


I concur, and I opt out for a dump bed bucket. 8)

[Skwerl]

In Ken's particular situation working in the city, the forestry truck is probably better suited overall. The extra load capacity can be crucial at the end of the job when it's 1.5-2 hours drive out of the city and to the dump.

In my situation working mostly around single story residences the rear mount works better. Sometimes I'm even able to use it on back yard removals, even just clearing the part over the house can save a lot of work climbing and rigging. On many smaller houses I can back right up to the roofline and reach all the way over to the rear roofline.

[395xp]

1 other note on your setup would be all the added weight of the wood. That adds up when pulling into a yard or on a driveway.



But thats where your wrong, the truck only weighs more on the way out. :lol:

[DTW902]

In Ken's particular situation working in the city, the forestry truck is probably better suited overall. The extra load capacity can be crucial at the end of the job when it's 1.5-2 hours drive out of the city and to the dump.

In my situation working mostly around single story residences the rear mount works better. Sometimes I'm even able to use it on back yard removals, even just clearing the part over the house can save a lot of work climbing and rigging. On many smaller houses I can back right up to the roofline and reach all the way over to the rear roofline.

And thats the bottom line. Find what works the best for your needs, and will help you be the most profitable. Thats what it is all about. 8)