Another Beeline Thread

[jamie]

While in the shower (clothed so there are no bad mental images :what:) i was thinking about Beeline Eyes. I tried a core to core splice that i have the directions for in Brion Tosses 'The Complete Riggers Apprentice'
and Barara Merrys ' The Splicing Handbook'.
Below is a sorta step by step montage of what i did, sorry its a bit out of focus.
General gist is that the vectran core passes through the eye and is buried back down the rope with no locking features, just double the usual bury.
I lockstitched the excess cover onto the side of the throat of the splice then whiplocked it down to help stop the excess cover from fraying.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/treejamie/rope%20stuff/beelinecore2core.jpg

Side by side these are 2 of my beeline eyes, both are snug against a carabiner. the exposed eye needs to be dipped.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/treejamie/rope%20stuff/beeline2eyes.jpg

My only slight concern is the slight bit of core exposed just as the core re-enters the rope. I tried to bury as much as i could but the cover milked just a wee bit. I'm not overly concerned as the cover is still just for protection.

The whiplocking aint perfectly symetrical but its well stitched.

Any comments?

Jamie

[NickfromWI]

Not bad!

I'm currently working on measurements that will allow us to bury all the cover in the core-to-core splice for beeline. It looks like the measurements will vary from rope to rope, but it is VERY possible with this rope.

There is a variation that allows you to do a locking brummell in this setup, to allow for shorter buries, which appeals to us tree folk!

How long is that whipping? Looks shorter than what I typically do, but that's good.

Keep those lines from twisting on those frapping turns!

love
nick

[jtrouse]

hey nick wondered how id do a covered beeline eye for footlock loop and also eye to eye slings?

[NickfromWI]

FWIW, Yale recommends exposed eyes for Yale. You don't NEED to cover it.

If you do want to cover it, mark both sides of the eye, pull the core out of BOTH sides, do the locks and bury, then rebury the now spliced tail back into the rope. You will have a tail of cover hanging out. Taper that, then bury it into the splice.

love
nick

[jtrouse]

wondered how many brummel locks i should do for beeline 8mm. i had a go at it and did four and then buried the tail and found it was very fat. how should the taper be done and how many locks is safe enough?? thanks

[NickfromWI]

Do 2 locks, as per yale cordage' recommendation. The tail should be 6" if I remember right.

love
nick

[jtrouse]

Righto sweet. What length do you start with for a french prusik setup as and how much of the core do you pull out and to splice with?
With the bury how should i taper it??

[NickfromWI]

I think I add 14" to my desired finished length, pulling 6 or 7 inches to taper, starting the taper about 2" down the tail.

This is from memory. It'd be best to get the directions straight from yale.

love
nick

[Wagnaw]

Hello... I know this is an old thread, but I was wondering what you all use to dip the spliced eyes in to keep the eye from picking. And, where can you get it? I've spliced a bunch of beeline and HRC, but I want to dip the eyes to protect them from picking... I'm sure you all know...

I'm pretty proud of the ones I've done so far. I even took some shrink wrap tubes from my Cobra kit to cover the wipping. I'll put some pics up when I'm done.

[treetrash]

I use Maxi Jacket from APS. http://http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d282000/e280125.asp (http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d282000/e280125.asp)

[Wagnaw]

Thanks.

However, I just checked that site and it says that it is discontinued.

[treesandsurf]

This is what I use. Got it from a local West Marine store here in Honolulu.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/46845/377%20710%201807/0/Rigging%20/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/20/0?N=377%20710%201807&Ne=0&Ntt=Rigging%20&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=175&subdeptNum=10900&classNum=10900

jp:D

[treesandsurf]

Not bad!


Keep those lines from twisting on those frapping turns!

love
nick

I've heard you emphasize not crossing the frapping turns before, Nick. Was wondering your reasoning behind this (other than aesthetics)?

jp:D

[treesandsurf]

These are some beeline splices I just did for a friend. Criticisms welcome!



<a href="http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/bayhillsurf/?action=view&current=beelinefordan2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/bayhillsurf/beelinefordan2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/bayhillsurf/?action=view&current=beelinefordan.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/bayhillsurf/beelinefordan.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

jp:D

[treetrash]

That's too bad they no longer offer the pint size. I like the Maxi Jacket because it seems to saturate the rope more the the liquid whipping. Nick should have another source. I think that is the stuff he uses. Nick?

[Blinky]

Nick told me3 you can get it here (http://www.sailingsupply.com/index.php) but it's not on their website, you have to call.

[rumination]

Jon, that might be a couple more brummels than you need.

[treesandsurf]

Yeah, the core on the right (without the cover) has 4 brummels but the two eye-n-eye cords I only did 3 brummels on each end.

jp:D

[lumberjack]

A locking brummel followed by a stitched brummel? (Not just 3 stitched, right?)

[NickfromWI]

Two locks, then bury...that's all you need.

Sail supply in San Diego has Maxijacket, but not in the pint-size. You have to buy a quart...or maybe a gallon!

The Dip-it stuff is fine...thought I'm concerned that it wasn't designed to use on rope in tension. I wonder if it potentially could ruin the rope? The chemicals in that stuff are very harsh. haven't used the west marine branded stuff. I don't know if they are using a different formula.

love
nick

[treesandsurf]

A locking brummel followed by a stitched brummel? (Not just 3 stitched, right?)

Nope, all 3 locked brummels. I use the method that Brion Toss published in a 2001 Sailing magazine; Nick posted the illustration for it... I'll try and find it when I get back to mi casa and re-post.

jp:D

[treesandsurf]

Nick, what is the typical bury length you use on this splice?

jp:D

[NickfromWI]

Yale recommends 6". On my own (for me) I shorten that considerably and I'm guessing it's cool. I'm getting some with short tails broken and might soon be able to encourage Yale to update/shorten their directions.

love
nick

[Wagnaw]

The Dip-it stuff is fine...thought I'm concerned that it wasn't designed to use on rope in tension. I wonder if it potentially could ruin the rope? The chemicals in that stuff are very harsh. haven't used the west marine branded stuff. I don't know if they are using a different formula.

love
nick

Yeah, I want to make sure that whatever I get isn't degrading to the strength of the rope. I mean.... it my arse. Literally.

[NickfromWI]

I wonder if everyone would be interested in going in on a gallon of maxijacket? It might not be worth it financially to have me pick up a gallon, plus maybe 6 containers to ship it in, then ship it out to you guys...

Just a thought. Might be worth talking about.

love
nick

[treesandsurf]

Nick, could you explain why it is important to not cross the frapping turns on the whipping?

Here's the pic from the sailing mag article by Brion Toss.

<a href="http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/bayhillsurf/?action=view&current=beelinesplice.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/bayhillsurf/beelinesplice.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

jp:D

[rumination]

Jon, I'm guessing it's mostly an aesthetics issue. Although, I suppose the greater elevation of the crossed turns might make them more susceptible to abrasion and picking.

What say you Nick?

[NickfromWI]

Leon got it. It's a very minor issue. But it is also a sign of the splicers own craftsmanship. Much of the splice is inside the rope and you can't see what happened, but a crappy whipping hints at what type of person put the splice together, IMO.

Little alarms go off when I see crappy whiplocks.

love
nick

[jamie]

I dug out a box of my old splices, i practiced and practiced and labled and chucked them in abox, all cut just after the final taper. some are hideous, abrupt tapers, whiplocks all over the place, fraps crossing. these were beore i had decent needles and a palm.

my whiplock on the zing it isnt perfect but i'm letting myself off as it is tiny

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/treejamie/rope%20stuff/Zingitsplicesm.jpg

oh and my compass

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/treejamie/rope%20stuff/Compasssm.jpg
i love splicing the small stuff...

Jamie

[NickfromWI]

Alright, when I get home I'm posting my "smallest splice ever" when I get home...get your magnifiying glasses ready!

love
nick

[Paul B]

gee Nick, you are out late. :P

[jamie]

this sounds like a challenge

Jamie

[Blinky]

gee Nick, you are out late. :P

He already posted it... it's just soooo tiny, you can't see it.

[NickfromWI]

Thanks for the (not so) subtle reminder, Paul! ;) Blinky was right....just just have to look really, really, really close.

Here's one line I spliced a couple years ago. I just keep it around as a novelty to show people what you can do with splicing. That is a 1.75mm throwline in the foreground for reference...

love
nick

[NickfromWI]

Oh, and I have one more...but I'm going to save that one for now :P

[jamie]

the bar has been set.

unlike me you have a brummel (locking? i cant see) i just have a straight bury. i know it should be 2 fid lengths etc being dynemma..........

Jamie

[NickfromWI]

So 2 fids on a 1mm line would be about 1.75 inches or less. I think I have about that much!

love
nick

[treesandsurf]

Man, I've got a headache looking at that splice!

jp:D

[NickfromWI]

Wait until you see the next one...

[lumberjack]

Is it the dental floss splice?

[NickfromWI]

Pretty much....i'll post it up tonight or this weekend...I finally found a way to photograph it that looks good to me.

love
nick

[Wagnaw]

You guys are wild. :lol:

[jtrouse]

spliced up some beeline 8mm finally however with the final taper i did it as per yales directions and it feels like it needs to be tapered more? it feels too hard and find it difficult to tie it for use as french prusic. any help would be great.

[NickfromWI]

What directions where you using?

love
nick

[jtrouse]

i used the brion toss method the instructions previously posted in this thread.combined with the power point i got off yale which i sent you a copy of it.

if i do 3 locks would this be safe to make the taper 3" long? then cut off using a barber taper or use a more marked out taper.

Wondered what sort of taper is best to use for this splice???

[Wagnaw]

Here is the Smallest I've done so far. Just 1.75 mm Zing it. Done on both ends.

[NickfromWI]

I really like a spliced loop on my throwline. It's fast. I haven't had it hang up yet...except once. When I got up there, I saw that it wasn't the splice. the ring on the bag actually got snagged on a twig. So far it's 100% for the spliced eyes on throwline!!!

love
nick

[Wagnaw]

Yeah, Micheal Tain was givin' me shit at the Southern Chapter cause I "knew how, but hadn't yet." So, I did. It was way easy too. I just used a little jewery wire.

[treesandsurf]

Anyone figured out how to bury the cover and the core on the beeline splice?

jp:D

[NickfromWI]

Anyone figured out how to bury the cover and the core on the beeline splice?

jp:D

Yep!

What are you trying to make? It is moderately easy to make for one eye and possible, though your measurements have to be spot on if you are doing an eye-eye.

For a hitch cord it makes the thing too stiff. I've done it for some friction savers, footlock prusiks, lanyards, and a few other things here and there.

love
nick

[treesandsurf]

This is for a foot lock prussik and for a friction saver.

Is there a way to do the splice on a ring for the friction saver? The brummel lock (I posted a pic on page 2 of this thread) requires you to invert the eye which makes it impossible to splice onto a ring??

jp:D

[NickfromWI]

To accomplish what you're talking about, you literally have to unweave the rope, form the brummell, and weave it back together. Sounds crazy, but it works and can be quite elegant.

Another option would be to do a standard core-to-core splice and rely on the bury for the strength.

love
nick

[treesandsurf]

Hmmm... I guess I should start with one thing at a time. Are there instructions somewhere on how to do the splice with the covered eyes??

jp:D