How big can you go?

[Bounce]

I did a job recently taking down 5 extremely large (50-70" dbh) cottonwoods. I was subbing for a guy who wanted me to lower 16.5' logs so he could get some lumber value out of the wood (still can't believe cottonwood is worth enough to haul it to the mill though). I found myself butt hitching bigger pieces than I've ever lowered before and was surprised at how little difference there was between lowering a real big piece and a more normal size chunk. Once I got over the nervousness of watching something that big sail past me, I found it was no big deal at all. I had to use much bigger rigging gear than normal, there were more wraps on the portawrap than usual, and I had to climb with an 880 with a 48" bar (and still had to cut from both sides on the last cut on every tree), but other than that it was no different. Ever since, I've had fun seeing how big I can go.

How big of a piece are you guys comfortable cutting & lowering, and what do you think are the factors that limit you?

[Burnham]

First and foremost, the condition of the spar has to be able to stand up to the loads.

All the rest comes second.

Rope handler has to be spot on to maximize piece size safely, and that part is the hardest to achieve piece after piece, consistently.

[brendonv]

A general rule for me, I usually go small. Obviously what the spar looks like matters, but sending big logs down on rope is something I am still a wuss about.

Big I mean 20" diameter 8' long kinda thing.

[Bounce]

The condition of the spar is a definitely limitation. But assuming the spar is sound and you have a competent ground work (I took the job on the condition that I could use my own groundie who is awesome at letting pieces run), why not go bigger? Job gets done faster, you go home sooner. I just simply realized that I've been extremely conservative in the size of pieces I used to cut, and the only thing stopping me from going bigger was me.

[Skwerl]

For me, the difference between 20" diameter to 26"-28" diameter is huge. due to how our trees typically grow around here I almost never have to rig anything that big and I'm thankful for that. I'll rig out huge tops as long as they have brush on them. The brush acts like a shock absorber to cushion the impact when it hits the trunk. It also acts like a sail to stop the piece from flailing around after it bounces off the trunk.

I smashed my thumb about 15 years ago rigging down a pine log and it is now a mental block for me. If I never rig another big piece of wood in my life (while climbing) then I'd be real OK with that.

[Bounce]

Brendon - Woodweb.com says a piece of Pin Oak 20" x 8' weighs 1106 lbs. 9/16" Stable braid (not even 5/8", let alone 3/4") give a wll of 1300 lbs. This is what I mean by something that used to seem big to me, but I've realized is actually quite small.

[Skwerl]

But the shock load of that piece hitting the end of the rope can be 3-4x the actual weight or more. Any time you start pushing potential shock load numbers up over 10K-15K it starts getting into territory that's a bit too risky for my taste. 20" wood is fine but 28" wood gets real heavy real fast.

[PCTREE]

Hey Sean, when I first started using the GRCS I started to go BIGGER with stuff as you can tension lines/ lift stuff. One day we had a piece of hackberry tied off that was full of vines , I tip tied it and tensioned lines as there were power lines under it.Figured that with all those vines it would be hard to do in small pieces. Made the cut and WOW the sucker started going down, the top of the tree looked like a fishing pole!! Guess I underestimated the weight of hackberry and the weight of all those vines! I know this is totally diferent from what you are talking about but it really impressed on me that when you "go big" the consiquences "get bigger" and a lot more costly!! Food for thought......

[Bounce]

True dat. When I took on this job, I went all out building a custom rigging system with 1" Hobbs block, custom 1" loopie sling, 3/4" stable braid, and a 3/4" tenex eye sling. I'm not saying there isn't any risk to going bigger, but there is also a benefit. Obviously at some point the risks outweight the potential benefits - the question is, where is that point?

[Skwerl]

Keep going until you find it. I'll take your word for it. ;)

[Burnham]

I'd rather cut twice and be sure that I'm not pushing the envelope too far, instead of cut once and wonder about it.

Cluck-cluck-cluck....

[Bounce]

the shock load of that piece hitting the end of the rope can be 3-4x the actual weight or more

I usually plan on 7-10x.

[Bounce]

Wow, this is the sort of thing I'd expect on AS, but not here. Cut small - play it safe - I'm waiting for somebody to mention ANSI next.

[Skwerl]

I'm not trying to be argumentative because I do see Sean's point. For years I rarely roped anything heavier than a couple hundred pounds. But as I got older and more experienced I would take bigger and bigger pieces. Once I started working from a bucket it was much easier for me to take big pieces because my ass wasn't at risk. These days I have no problem rigging 2000 lb tops. (but I'm still a chicken on the really big wood)

And I don't GAF about ANSI. I care about not having catastrophic failures on the jobsite and going home in one piece. :D

[Burnham]

Wow, this is the sort of thing I'd expect on AS, but not here. Cut small - play it safe - I'm waiting for somebody to mention ANSI next.

:lol:See my recent thread, Sean!

I'm not saying cut small...I'll go big as most anyone. I'm saying I don't like pushing the envelope to the point that one small mistake by the rope handler, or one misjudgement on the condition of the gear and the way you've rigged it up means you're fairly likely to have a rigging failure.

[Bounce]

Maybe I've gotten too comfortable with a high level of risk - I dunno. It's true that if my groundie had 1/2 wrap too much on the porty, the line would probably have broken. But that's why I made sure to have somebody running the porty who knows how to do it. My point is, I successfully lowered pieces approx 6x as big an normal and it went fine. So why not go 2x as big as normal all the time?

What if what you thought was pushing the envelope this whole time was actually nowhere near the edge of the envelope?

[jomoco]

Suicide alert!

Danger Will Robinson!

Work Safe you stud you!

jomoco

[Burnham]

Maybe I've gotten too comfortable with a high level of risk - I dunno. It's true that if my groundie had 1/2 wrap too much on the porty, the line would probably have broken. But that's why I made sure to have somebody running the porty who knows how to do it. My point is, I successfully lowered pieces approx 6x as big an normal and it went fine. So why not go 2x as big as normal all the time?

What if what you thought was pushing the envelope this whole time was actually nowhere near the edge of the envelope?

Guess I can live with that :).

It's really the difficulty with judging the integrity of the tree that keeps me from following your line of reasoning all the way out to the limit, whatever that might be, Sean.

[Wagnaw]

I butt hitched a 31", six foot long piece of locust once, well... twice that day... The company I was working for had never used a pulley and lowering device before. It was for the jaw drop effect. :D

[jomoco]

There was a guy that went big here in pine valley not so long ago roping out a head that uprooted the whole tree sending everything into high power lines killing the climber.

I had been working the same low bid county contract as a sub just a week prior when the company owner said screw this high danger lowbid BS and told everyone to go home.

Wise man, replaced by a company that went bankrupt complete with equipment firesale a month later after that fatality.

jomoco

[NeTree]

I'd rather cut twice and be sure that I'm not pushing the envelope too far, instead of cut once and wonder about it.

Cluck-cluck-cluck....

Yup.

[gf beranek]

If I worked with Greg Good as the groundie running the ropes I would feel comfortable taking any size chunk he'd say to take.

But the truth of the matter is I never had a groundie I could trust to take big pieces. Past experiences were brutal . Not on them but me.

There is certainly something to say about having a man on the ground that understands the meaning of "letting the work run"

So in the past, rather than risk getting my legs broke, I erred on the side of caution and just took way smaller pieces.

Brian's analogy is very accurate,,,as well as the rest.

Slam dunking wood into the rigging is not for the light hearted or inexperienced.

[MasterBlaster]

When I call for the 3/4" bullrope, the guy running the rope knows to get ready. :/:

[Stumper]

I prefer pieces I can take in a fight. Lighter than I is good-heavier not so much.

[Bounce]

If Burnham, Brendon, Skwerl, PCTree, Jomoco, NETree, Gerry, Butch AND Stumper all agree, then I should probably listen. I want to be doing this for another 40+ years, and there's probably 200+ years of experience between the lot of you.

[Bodean]

if you want/have to go for a large log.

Best scenario is a good straight rigging spar close enough to be able to tip tie the log and lift with the cut.

This is saying no crane, just rigging gear.

Like was said earlier, the Ropero is just as important as a good climber.
like a left hand a right hand, both strong and equal.
When they have worked together repeatedly day after day communication
is telepathic. Hard wired if you well.

Tip tieing and cranking the monkey out of it, keep cranking as they cut.
If there's no rigging spar and you'd be false crotching logs.
That would be some serious stress on the rigging and tree itself.

Maybe 1.25 inch rope with an old hobbs where you could fit 6 or 7 wraps.
Could you false crotch 16' fir logs? :)

In my little time, I've had a Ropero F$$K me up pretty good,
Then other times, i'm sure he saved my life.

[gf beranek]

Hey, more power to you, Sean. Working with a crew that can do it right is what I've longed for. I wish I could dump chunks that big in confidence but never had a groundie that I could trust. You are fortunate.

[jomoco]

I've got a cool crane trick where I tie a tree together with nylon straps and a clevis that's way out of reach of the cranes reach, but tied at the exact point that I can stay with the crane rather than on the tree after the cuts are made and the real action starts.

Good timing between the CO and myself allows me to float away far away from the danger zone.

Of course I only use this trick in a low value target scenario mostly.

I like doing it alot.

jomoco

[Bounce]

:) yep, it's fun.

[Bounce]

Come to think of it, that may be half the trouble with it.

[MasterBlaster]

I ain't getting the mental picture.

[Treevet]

I lean more to the strap on bollard than my big porty (got 3 sizes of them) for the benefit of the GM on the big wood. Do you have a bollard or just the porty Sean (Bounce?, I am working on names, I am new)?

I love to take honkers. But a number of years ago I snapped a line and the huge piece hit the dirt and rolled right into the swimming pool. Unbelievably did absolutely no damage....tree man's luck

[jomoco]

I ain't getting the mental picture.

You tie the tree to itself with nylon and steel, make the cuts and float away from the resulting dynamics tied into the crane.

Once the tree settles down in a vertical hang, I retag into the tree and pick the hanging half of the tree by the butt with the crane, kinda swapping positions.

It's a neat trick for picking stuff way out of the cranes reach without exposing the crane or you to any dynamic forces, the tree takes a fair beating though!

jomoco

[Gord]

Sean If I'm reading your original post right you were square rigging logs around 5000lbs?


Yikes.

[stehansen]

I've had my rigging point fail 2 times, both times in cottonwood trees. Now I always use 2 blocks in the tree if I'm rigging out anything of size. I say if you have a reason to keep the wood big, go for it as long as you have all the things you need. 3/4" Stable braid has a working load of 4,000 lbs. Don't forget that cottonwood can sometimes slilp the bark off.

[sotc]

like deva said, if your toproping and can crank the slack out of it ill take some huge stuff. if your butt hitching i go big but not 16'! i roped a cedar log about 24-28" and 7.5 feet long and glazed the heck out of the 1/2" rope with the grcs. i cant imagine doing stuff like you are with a porty!
this was all false crotched but with the big aluminum bollard on the grcs.

[The Branch Doctor]

I've spent the last 2 days removing a Locust (38"x85' height) that was less than 24" off the corner of a house, leaning a bit, and not much LZ for bombing so 3/4 or more of it had to be rigged down. Due to all the obstacles (fences, wires, house, other trees, 2 gardens, clothes line, etc) the size of each drop had to be individually assessed because the variables differed with every drop. It was quite a challenging tree from start to finish to say the least.

How big I can go is depicted by the variables of each situation so there isn't really a "rule of thumb" you can depend on other than..... don't ever go too big.;)

[MasterBlaster]

I love those graveyard gigs.

http://gypoclimber.com/slideshow/crane-slideshow/images/crane-06.jpg

[arborworks1]

I have roped pine logs in the 12 foot range, around 18 to 24 inch DBH. But i had a really good groundie running the logs all the way to the ground and then snubbing it.


That was back in the day when I thought I was invincible. I tend to err on the cautious side now, I employ the grcs whenever I can to lift logs, But I refuse to butt hitch 12 to 16 footers anymore.

[jomoco]

How many of you guys use ATV4X4's at work with custom tow behind trailers or T bar brush dragging bars in it's receiver hitch? I started using 3 wheelers, then graduated to 4X4's in the mid 80's.

Perfect for Graveyard jobs your crane caint reach!

jomoco

[arborworks1]

I think most here have graduted to mini loaders. Keep up

[sotc]

i have one i rarely use, you can see the winch line in the first pic. it did the brush dragging, dingo moved the wood

[PCTREE]

Hey Sean thought I should add another point here that Im sure that you are aware of but hey I need to appear intelligent. Remember as you are bombing those huge honkers onto your prestine lowering line that a ropes cycles to failure is directly proportional to the % of the ropes strength and the force applied. ie if you load with say 10% of mbs you can do that 100s of times but if you do 90% it will fail after about 10 times (cannt remember exact stats). So yeah you may be able to do it but remember ALL YOUR GEAR is getting ruined. And once said damage has been done it doesnt take a huge load to make it fail. Since you work for Wespur I guess you can replace you rope, Whoppie and loopie every 10 logs ;)

Obviously just messing with ya but it always worries me about the wear on our gear that we have NO WAY of seeing and GOING BIG will exponentialy increase this wear.

Yes Im the boring ol git over here:|:

[lumberjack]

I've taken out some 3klb nuggets, but that's as big as I've gone when rigging from below.

Something that is possible on some jobs is to let the log run until it hits the ground with the tip, then lock it off so it doesn't fall over.

If you have room to let the log run a couple of log lengths, alot of the force can be spread over that time to minimize the shock. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it.

[CurSedVoyce]

I'm with Burnam... CLUCK CLUCK!

I am really just working my way up to larger pieces and still often cut small. Most of our jobs have required small also. Clearance issues and such. I know there will come a day where I will really have to test my ropes and rigging. Till then... I will work my way up to that gradual ;)

[FJR]

I was thinking the same thing that the Branch Doctor was thinking. There are so many variables and structure obstacles around here that end up up dictating the size of the piece taken. I generally tend to error on the side of caution.

[MasterBlaster]

99% of the time, there's always the option of rigging lighter.

[treebogan]

99% of the time, there's always the option of rigging lighter.

Spot on!

[stig]

I'm with Burnam... CLUCK CLUCK!



Better to be a live chicken than a dead lion!

[Bodean]

What does this cluck cluck mean?

I'm not getting the context, is it a duck?

[Skwerl]

No, a chicken. :lol:

[Bodean]

oh, I always give the Bok Bok Bok for the pollo.

[pantheraba]

I'd rather cut twice and be sure that I'm not pushing the envelope too far, instead of cut once and wonder about it.

Cluck-cluck-cluck....

I'm thinking that Mr. B. is condoning chickenhood as a more likely to stay in one piece and alive.

It's easy enough for things to get a little "skwerly" sometimes with modest sized pieces...big honkin' pieces can add complications that can cook your goose.

cluck...cluck...cluck...bahk, bahk, bahk,bah-gahk. :)

[Bodean]

First picture is false crotching with a portawrap. 1/2 inch line.

Second is tiptieing with a hobbs. 3/4 inch line.
We tried for 10's and 12's.

[wiley_p]

Sean my advice is go easy. I've had ribs cracked, teeth broken, and been knocked out. After a while I decided that big pieces was not always the smart play. As the logs get long and have diameter to them, a little mistake gets powerful fast. :evil:

[Skwerl]

First picture is false crotching with a portawrap. 1/2 inch line.
...
Deva, do your balls clank together when you walk? :O

[Dave Shepard]

I think the cluck cluck is more of a mother hen thing, than a chickening out thing. But I could be mistaken.

[NeTree]

One of the best traits of a skilled tree guy is their ability to judge just how far to push things.

I pride myself on that ability.

That said, DO your nuts make a metallic clanking sound when ya walk???

[pantheraba]

I think the cluck cluck is more of a mother hen thing, than a chickening out thing. But I could be mistaken.

Good observation...interesting how things can be interpreted. Either way, it works for me.

[Treevet]

Since this thread doesn't specifically mention rigging, I have a tech. I use on big wood if there is even a small LZ down there. Sometimes I will build a damn with pieces that already have gone down to contain the honkers landing from free fall so they don't bounce if there is a target nearby.

I call it the slide and prefer to do it in a bucket but will do it climbing. You just gotta make sure there is no way the saw chain can get to you legs under any circumstances (legs outa the way).

Let's say I am running an 88 with a 3' bar. I take a piece size that I can hold on the top with my left hand from coming back at me. I cut down on a decent angle using both hands. When I get to the point that the piece will cave in backwards on the bar and pinch it, I stop and force 2 twigs (wedges take too long to bring back up and twigs work) into the cut equi distant from the intended point of finished cut. After twigs are installed I begin cutting again (one hand cutting and left hand on the top of the piece) and when the bar is just about ready to finish the cut, I accelerate (maybe have to take a little pressure off the cut) and because it is wedged in the back, and cut on an angle and, now I am cutting with one hand, and holding the piece with the other hand.....the whole works goes sliding off the cliff....including the saw bar, which is now swinging like a pendulum below me.

The piece can be dropped with more accuracy than you would think as it will go right where the last bit of wood is severed.

This is a highly skilled user only trick. Pretty big reward for risk as it eliminates rigging. Again this what I am trying to do. Can't have any deflections on way down or bad bounces that will get you in trouble.

[Skwerl]

Sounds similar to the 'salami cut' that Jerry mentions in his book.

[Bodean]

My balls don't clank they chime like chinese medicine balls and I've used the salami cut.

[Treevet]

I got to get his book and videos. I got a new Bailey's on the way. I have a huge collection of both.

[MasterBlaster]

I got to?

:P

[thattreeguy]

you know ya can go big as often as ya like but, you will wear out your luck and knees quicker.

[CurSedVoyce]

:thumbup::thumbup: Here Here !

I remember all to well the 066 with a 36 bar strapped to my arse on the side of more than one ponderosa. I needed a recoup day! OUCH:|::big-tongue4:

[The Branch Doctor]

:thumbup::thumbup: Here Here !

I remember all to well the 066 with a 36 bar strapped to my arse on the side of more than one ponderosa. I needed a recoup day! OUCH:|::big-tongue4:

Ha! That was me on Friday accept I was in a big-ass Locust.:D

[Burnham]

Cluck cluck, bok bok...all the same for me.
:D

[thattreeguy]

yeah and i just found my 300' 5/8 stable braid has a tweaked spot about 80' in, and the sling on my block is tweaked as well, guess thats what happens when you lower 30' to 40'long 16" to 18"dia limbs, after awhile thing weas out, and you being an equipment sales guy outta know how fast that stuff adds up,
and thats the replaceable stuff

the thing i like about up here, is 60% of the time you just move the fences and fling 24' chunks

[stehansen]

So Cottonwood makes good lumber?

[MasterBlaster]

That's news to me!

[squisher]

I think Bounce is just trying to get us to go big so we have to buy replacement rigging faster.:lol:

[stehansen]

That's news to me!

I thought that was the reason to keep the wood in large pieces.

[sotc]

I know some guys are using it for decking on their lowboys.

[Burnham]

Hey Sean thought I should add another point here that Im sure that you are aware of but hey I need to appear intelligent. Remember as you are bombing those huge honkers onto your prestine lowering line that a ropes cycles to failure is directly proportional to the % of the ropes strength and the force applied. ie if you load with say 10% of mbs you can do that 100s of times but if you do 90% it will fail after about 10 times (cannt remember exact stats). So yeah you may be able to do it but remember ALL YOUR GEAR is getting ruined. And once said damage has been done it doesnt take a huge load to make it fail. Since you work for Wespur I guess you can replace you rope, Whoppie and loopie every 10 logs ;)

Obviously just messing with ya but it always worries me about the wear on our gear that we have NO WAY of seeing and GOING BIG will exponentialy increase this wear.

Yes Im the boring ol git over here:|:

This is an exceptionally cogent point that Paul is making. Worth taking serious consideration of, imo.

[Blinky]

It is all about the groundie because a cut's a cut. A good man with spot on judgment, a block and a GRCS or porty, can get the wood on the ground with minimum shock to the system... none at all if your rigging point is located where he can let the piece go all the way to the ground.

I have to do 13' pine logs every so often, usually in the 20-22" category... I hate it. Did a huge ash recently, some chunks were getting close to 30" in diameter and and about 8' long. I kept that big old huge tree trunk between me and the pieces..

It's still a huge point of pride for me that my 14 year son is the best groundie I've ever worked with. We've rigged some really big chunks, sometimes on marginal trees, only because I knew he would get the pieces down safely on the first swing without snatching the anchor.

I do have a story though. I subbed for an injured climber who got crushed against a trunk rigging off a piece that was longer than he was high off the ground. Apparently when the tip touched down the butt swung around an sandwiched his ass.

[Skwerl]

Yeah, becoming a sammich really sucks. :(

[Burnham]

Having a really good ropeman with a fine, smooth touch is wonderful, and I'm sure it encourages cutting bigger pieces. But even then, something can go south unexpectedly. I've seen a wrap get crossed on a bollard during the fall of a piece, no way to figure how it happened, and it locked the rope up solid, no run at all.

Deva has experience taking BIG wood, and he says his ropeman Osoito is as good as they come...but I recall pics and a story from him about a failed rope and a broken water line not so long ago.

Stuff happens guys, and the more often you put your finger on the tripwire the greater the odds are that one day your turn will come around.

[Blinky]

[...]
Stuff happens guys, and the more often you put your finger on the tripwire the greater the odds are that one day your turn will come around.

Yep, there needs to be a really good reason to take big pieces. I'd rather do lots of small ones any day. I'm not advocating for it... I'm just damned impressed with my offspring. :)

[Burnham]

As well you should be, my friend.

[Bodean]

You Know here's a disclaimer. Here ye! Here ye!

I agree it's hell on gear, Smoked ropes, sliding sloughing blocks.
Twisted carabeaners, snapped cmi slings.
I have been fortunate enough to been able to experience heavy tree rigging
and it's effects on tree structure and gear. Safety is always my goal.
Though when everyone is safe, I test things a bit, I can experiment at times.

Here's the picture you were thinking of Burn.
I went too big, osito wasn't roping, it was someone else.
They had 5 wraps, shoulda been four. I should've taken it in two, alas.

We fixed it, no biggie.

I learned something, thank Goodness, no one was hurt.

My direct supervisor is in the white hard hat. Not too happy.
He decided, that we crane the rest out.

[gf beranek]

Broken water pipe. Ha, just a tea cup after the bull went through the china shop.

[MasterBlaster]

Haha, I would never attempt to do that heavy of a load. You crazy skinny nergo!!! :lol:

[Bodean]

Also, I just thought,


Going big can be bad for cranes, The operator said no problem.

He barely got this piece down and in effect, he's actually stuck for
whatever reason, he couldn't lift it again, we had to lay it down with the loader.

It was the butt piece.

[MasterBlaster]

That crane was overloaded.

[Skwerl]

WTF was he doing on that side of the truck? He should have been at the other set of controls on the far side of the truck. Cranes are only as good as their operators. Sorta like any other rigging gear. ;)

[gf beranek]

I see a steel choker on that butt piece. Now what is the story about using those thing in the regs.

Not to cause a stir, but some one at the buzz was citing that it is not approved rigging for crane work. I don't know for sure either way.

Damn steel chokers are as secure as Ft. Knox once under tension. Hey?

[Skwerl]

I've used steel chokers on most of my crane work. I prefer slings but most of the time it's steel chokers.

[MasterBlaster]

As long as the chokers are the right size and don't have burrs, I don't mind. In fact, I kinda like them better for slinging them around a large stem. The shackle is a good weight, just don't hit your hand, LOL.

[jomoco]

Hard to tell for sure from the pic, but that sure looks a sliding quik connect steel choker.

Sliding quick connect steel chokers are not approved for overhead crane work, but it's the quick connect part that's against regs, steel chokers and a clevis connector are approved.

I use them on small and medium stuff, but not on picks that heavy, I prefer 3/4 clevis' on big stuff.

It's surprising what little cranes like that can get done.

jomoco

[MasterBlaster]

http://gypoclimber.com/slideshow/crane-slideshow/images/crane-23.jpg

[Stumper]

DO your nuts make a metallic clanking sound when ya walk???

Nah, I stow 'em in a large ankle hoster to cut down on the noise.

[NeTree]

:lol:

[stehansen]

You look like some sort of Axe-Man action figure on that big tree Deva. Your the guy they should be filming.

[darkstar]

First and foremost, the condition of the spar has to be able to stand up to the loads.

All the rest comes second.

Rope handler has to be spot on to maximize piece size safely, and that part is the hardest to achieve piece after piece, consistently.

You got that right SIR
No doubt at all.

[Blinky]

Nah, I stow 'em in a large ankle hoster to cut down on the noise.

Me too, helps stop that unpleasant chaffing.

[cory]

You look like some sort of Axe-Man action figure on that big tree Deva. Your the guy they should be filming.

Is that Deva pictured inside the front cover of the '08 Wesspur catalog, taking down a redwood?? That's a great picture.

[Mr. Sir]

Also, I just thought,


Going big can be bad for cranes, The operator said no problem.

He barely got this piece down and in effect, he's actually stuck for
whatever reason, he couldn't lift it again, we had to lay it down with the loader.

It was the butt piece.

He used the boom to get it over close to the truck, but when the boom topped out the winch couldn't lift it. With the heavy end on the ground, he could have boomed down and THEN taken up on the cable to tip it over.

[squisher]

I beleive it's a buddy of his that he does work with.

[squisher]

He used the boom to get it over close to the truck, but when the boom topped out the winch couldn't lift it. With the heavy end on the ground, he could have boomed down and THEN taken up on the cable to tip it over.

To tip what over the crane?:D

[Mr. Sir]

Haha. :lol:

No, he had the piece right up against the flatbed. He should have boomed down toward the back of the truck and pulled the top of the log over until it just laid down parallel to the crane. No need to even pick it up off the ground, just tilt it over. Cabishe? :D

[squisher]

Aye, eh.;)

[Bodean]

Is that Deva pictured inside the front cover of the '08 Wesspur catalog, taking down a redwood?? That's a great picture.


That's my old boss/friend Shamrock in the Wesspur Catalog.
I was the guy on the ground, two heads taller than the other
two guys on the ground that day.

All that wood decked to the side was rigged down and
positioned to the side there, stacking them sucked.

[cory]

That's cool. Got anymore pics? It looks like a real interesting job!

[MasterBlaster]

Haha. :lol:

No, he had the piece right up against the flatbed. He should have boomed down toward the back of the truck and pulled the top of the log over until it just laid down parallel to the crane. No need to even pick it up off the ground, just tilt it over. Cabishe? :D

One crane guy here does that all the time for the trunk cut. I'll start cutting on the backside (sans any kerf cut or underbed) and leave 6 to 12 inches of holding wood and he'll ease the snag over.
If it was my crane, I wouldn't do it.

[PCTREE]

Just to continue with Bernham train of thought about stuff happens. Years ago when I had the business up in DC I had an awesome groundie named Ron. Ron was solid, could drag brush all day in 100 degree heat,load wood run a saw and he was great at roping. One day we were taking down a fair sized oak that grew at a 45 over the house due to a huge tree in the front yard. I set a block in the top of the big oak to swing everything away from the house. Only problem was there were the huge primary wires by the street so if he held pieces they would have slammed the wires. I offered to put a block on the tree we were working to slow the swing but Ron said Na I got it. He let them run into the yard. As I came down the pieces got bigger and bigger as he didnt have to hold them much as they werent over the house much. As he was letting a honker run the rope hockled up and wrapped itself around his leg. Next thing I knew he turned upside down and started up the tree!!:O When his head was at about 10 feet the rope let go and he fell to the ground and the honker landed right beside him. I was young and laughed my ass off, but I still think about how close Ron came to getting F'ed up:|:

[Bodean]

Ropes and lines are no joke.

Holy smokes, people can get smacked quick.



These are the only two other pictures I have, Cory.
First one is me, going up to brush it out and top it.
If you look that garbage can has 600' of samson 3/4 in it.

Second one is the whole tree.

[MasterBlaster]

I've seen a guy pulled maybe 25, 30 feet up a tree. He held on and came on back down, hand over hand, and learned to take another wrap.

Another guy (I wasn't there) did the same kinda thing, but on the ascent a 'lil stub thingie hooked in his mouth and ripped his cheek open. He sports a nice scar from that.

[jomoco]

There's something peculiar about that pic, is there a second climber behind the falling log?

jomoco

[Skwerl]

No. The sawdust blowing off the top of the log may cause it to appear unusual. Just a log with a tag line.

[cory]

Ropes and lines are no joke.

Holy smokes, people can get smacked quick.



These are the only two other pictures I have, Cory.
First one is me, going up to brush it out and top it.
If you look that garbage can has 600' of samson 3/4 in it.

Second one is the whole tree.

Good story, PC!

Nice pics, Bodean. It looks like real thick woods around there, huh?
When you are taking apart a 200' tall tree, how do you handle verbal communication near the top? Yell? Limit it AMAP? Walkie talkie? Hand signals?

[Bodean]

um we were pretty low budget.

We don't like to yell too loud.
It's way harder to hear the ground amongst lawnmowers, traffic and such.
Easy to hear the climber usually.

So basically hand signals and short commands.
If need be cell phones for a discussion.

Alot of it is routine. So just "headache" and a responding "clear"
"ready on the rope" "crank it up"

[cory]

Cool!

[Stumper]

When I was a kid I watched a ground man who thought he could take fewer wraps than he was told get yanked around a tree, ski across the yard and start flying. He let go at about 30 feet with a great forward trajectory-he and the Hickory chunk hit the pond about the same time a few feet apart. He had pretty bad rope burns on his hands but no other injuries.

[squisher]

No wonder my uncle always takes so many wraps.

Man those are some funny yet scary stories.

[sotc]

I'd never hold on that long. Just isn't worth it

[thattreeguy]

cool pics bodean,
our out fit does a god amount of that type of work except up here we can usually pound the ground and send pieces down, people dont really like to pay ro rig em out unless you have to

[Tucker943]

I'm a little late on the matter but I'll say what many others have said. Depends on the groundman. I had a ground man a little bit back that was confident and had a good understanding of physics. I wouldnt think twice about butt-hitching some fat wood. The other guys that have filled the void he left arent as good as him and as a result I keep things a good bit smaller. I have a young man on baord for a year now that has the brains to rope out some hefty stuff but he gets skittish at the moment of truth. That being said I dont put much weight in his hands. I think with more experience he will get his nerve up.
Now, me personally, I get off on working the ropes for other guys and LOVE having some big stuff on the line. I have a veteran climber that works for me on saturdays and he is very skilled and talented. Him in the tree and me on the ropes, we go big. Not because either of us are incredible but because we are both confident and on the same page every step of the way.

[thattreeguy]

sure helps to have a great rope man, mine knows by looking at me and my tone whats up