that's different...

[Treevet]

Wondering if anyone does what they perceive to be different from the mainstream.

Couple of things I do involve lanyards and removals.

The first one has to include a bucket truck. I hang branches with a half inch or three quarter inch by 6 to 10 feet long double braid lanyard. Looking at a big takedown that you could not imagine not having any rigging is where it works. If I can take down a fence or board in with the bucket it is worth the time. Limbs hanging out over all kinds of obstacles, well usually there is clear area right under the tree. Just girth hitch on the large limb on the trunk side, then timber hitch or r.bolen it past the area to be cut. Slide the connection to the top of the branch and make the desired bottom cut. Slide it back beneath the limb to be cut, then make the topcut. Now you have a branch hanging there. Slice it up until you can hold, untie it and toss it, or if too heavy, get it into the bucket or on the rim and untie it, then get rid of it as allowed by size (boom down if nec.). This allows the GM to get handling size stuff and while you are doing this he can do other chores. This only works with the bucket so you can be in midair besides the piece that is hanging to reduce it.

Works good for a crew like mine that almost always is only 2 men. I would say I have made a tremendous amount of money over the years with this technique.

Next one involves the same lanyards and I hang them on the crane with the loop. The op brings the non looped end down to you and rbolen, timber hitch, with or without a marl, depending on what is appropriate. Nice thing about this is that you do not have to worry about getting slapped by a wire core or the headache ball (never gets close to you) and there is never any unhooking and choking. When I get to the real big stuff I go to the steel chokers, but 3/4 double braid in a static situation has some serious tensile strength.

Love to hear some different stuff that is done. I am here to learn besides having some fun.

[NeTree]

Many of us have our "little tricks". Trouble is, most of 'em are frowned upon. Shame... some really valid skills get overlooked that way.

[Treevet]

Many of us have our "little tricks". Trouble is, most of 'em are frowned upon. Shame... some really valid skills get overlooked that way.

Not wanting to be specific here, but ANSI standards are geared to the lowest green man on the to tum pole. They cannot legislate standards to different degrees of experience.

[Old Monkey]

I've done that but it has limits because it is a shock load. When crews around here talk about cabling trees, they are referring to taking the tops off of trees with steel chokers. Almost all of them have had the rigging spar fail on them at some point but still do no change the practice.

[NeTree]

Not wanting to be specific here, but ANSI standards are geared to the lowest green man on the to tum pole. They cannot legislate standards to different degrees of experience.

Yup.

[Treevet]

I've done that but it has limits because it is a shock load. When crews around here talk about cabling trees, they are referring to taking the tops off of trees with steel chokers. Almost all of them have had the rigging spar fail on them at some point but still do no change the practice.

The absence of shock load I was referring to is in the crane application.

With the limb drop (or top for that matter) if it is measured and over engineered, no harm no foul.

Maybe they need to get up a little higher before topping. Some of the stuff I hang, I might not do if I was in the tree.

[NeTree]

I've done many a snap-cut on a limb, and lifted it over an obstacle with the bucket.

No harm, no danger when done with skill.

[Treevet]

If you hang it on the tree with the lanyard then the bucket doesn't take the shock load. Maybe that is what you are doing?

[NeTree]

Nope. Snap cut at the tree, swing over to the tip, tie it off, then pick up, swing over obstacle, and lower it to the ground.

No shock load, either. ;)

[Treevet]

Nope. Snap cut at the tree, swing over to the tip, tie it off, then pick up, swing over obstacle, and lower it to the ground.

No shock load, either. ;)

gottcha

[lumberjack]

I also do the tie each side and cut inbetween.

Had my first rope break today, bombed a healthy piece onto a 1/2" piece of Arbormaster. Tied each end with a running bowline, the rope broke on the stub side where it was bent over the loop of the bowline.

In a situation like that, if it would have mattered, I put a second sling between them. If the first one breaks, the second would have caught it.

As is, it didn't matter, I go the swing I needed.

[Treevet]

I guess you could look at ANSI standards, I have em all and have Z Safety right on desk in front of me, as just suggestions. You could think that the only use for it would be in court after an employee's injury and you (the owner) had not been complying, you would be in deep doo doo.

But, you being the boss, what dif does it make since, if injured, then you are unlikely to sue your self. Therefore as company owner you can do the things you always did safely and your experience and expertise will continue to keep you away from injuries. Sort of a no victim disregard for the standards if injury occured to you. But the employees will all follow to the t the book.

The only problem with that thinking might be the scourge of the wrath of the OSHA upon one's being if they encountered you. Reason for fear IMO.

[lumberjack]

OSHA still can't touch owner operators. They can touch their employees unless they are their children.

[Treevet]

If the first one breaks, the second would have caught it.



I double secure them sometimes to. But I have got to the point where I only use double braid and sometimes soften the shock with a marl. I throw em out sometimes too or use em for dragging brush with the dingo.

[Treevet]

OSHA still can't touch owner operators. They can touch their employees unless they are their children.

I was fishing for that opinion. Interesting. Thanks.

[lumberjack]

I got that opinion at an OSHA class.

[Treevet]

I am glad you went, man.;)

[lumberjack]

It was in a PAAM (Professional Arborist Association of Mississippi) meeting in 2007. I haven't been back sense, wasn't my cup of tea.

[Treevet]

I hear ya. I am on my town's urban forestry board and I am way too uncivilized for that group.

See ya tomorrow.

[MasterBlaster]

I do the same roping thing when I can't reach it proper. I believe the term for that is "bouqueting."

[Skwerl]

I have a half dozen slings of different lengths that I made up and keep hanging in my bucket, along with a couple loop runners. The slings are spliced at both ends and have steel rigging carabiners on each end. The loop runners have a single steel captive eye biner girth hitched.

I use the slings to tie a limb off to itself, cut it, then throw a loop runner on to pick the limb up with my material handler on my bucket truck boom. When I get slack in the sling I can unhook the limb from the tree. Then I can swing the work over and set it down for the ground crew. The material handler is rated for up to 2000 lbs.

These pictures show an example. The first picture is rigged ready to cut. The second picture is after the cut and the third is where I'm picking the load up with the red loop runner on the material handler in order to get slack in the sling so it can be unhooked from the tree.

[Treevet]

Learned something today.

Another thing we do I am sure some do but a little different is cut holes to plant trees with the stump grinder.

It leaves a real nice back fill. We have lost massive amount of trees here due to drought and the last 3years have been the hottest successively in heat in weather recording history.

We started about 5 years ago with a few. PITA moving them with log dolley, unloading by hand or winch truck and digging by hand. Last fall we did a 20 tree 3" cal. planting job on a convent campus. The nursery delivered them to the site and we unloaded with the Dingo with ball squeezer (ouch) attachment. We dug all the holes prior with the big stump grinder. Then we just drove them around and dropped them into the hole with the tracked Dingo.

We then installed deer/mower protective fencing and dropped mulch on them after soaking them in a little. What a pleasure of a job.

[Treevet]

Kool pictures Skwerl! Missed that page when I came on. That is what I am talking about. I do not have a mtl handler but sometimes wish I did.

Is that Sugar maple?

[pantheraba]

Good pictures, Brian...quality and sequencing...makes it real clear.

[Blinky]

I don't have any cool tricks but I'm definitely learning some now. 'preciate it.

[rumination]

Brian, your setup rocks.

[Stumper]

Butch, I think Tom coined that "bouquet cut" term in reference to slinging several small limbs to one another for lowering or speed lining in one swell foop.(A handy technique-particularly on conifers). As for tying stuff off on itself and then piecing it out. I find that useful both in thebucket or in the tree. In the tree the climbers positioning is important for the initial cut to avoid getting slammed and then dropping down to dice it up and reascending is more work but it still allows handling limbs that couldn't be bombed whole without utilizing a ground man for roping them.

[Skwerl]

treevet, it's an oak. We call them laurel oaks here.

Also, make note in the first picture how the carabiners are positioned. They are laying flat on the log and the orientation is such that the load will be on the spine of the carabiner, not on the gate side. In the second picture you can see that the load is squarely on the long axis of the carabiner.

And Justin is correct. I've started using a similar method when I have to rig stuff when climbing. If it's just one or two limbs I can rig them off themselves with loop runners then piece them out and throw them down faster than taking all the time necessary to get a lowering line sent up and then taking up the groundman's time to rope the limbs out.

[Burnham]

treevet, it's an oak. We call them laurel oaks here.

Also, make note in the first picture how the carabiners are positioned. They are laying flat on the log and the orientation is such that the load will be on the spine of the carabiner, not on the gate side. In the second picture you can see that the load is squarely on the long axis of the carabiner.

And Justin is correct. I've started using a similar method when I have to rig stuff when climbing. If it's just one or two limbs I can rig them off themselves with loop runners then piece them out and throw them down faster than taking all the time necessary to get a lowering line sent up and then taking up the groundman's time to rope the limbs out.

I got one of the teams at the USFS rigging workshop last week to do this with a big limb in an Oregon ash, after speedlining several others...it went really well, quick and easy, especially for the ground guys. Faster than rigging for the speedline, and pieced out in the tree just about as fast as piecing it on the ground.

Does call for onehanding ;).

[Skwerl]

I've never one handed a saw in my life, Burnham. At least not that I'll admit. ;)

[Burnham]

Oops, my bad...clearly a methodological deficiency on my part. :D

[Bounce]

I was surprised to learn that my method of carrying a climbing line in a rope bag dangling from my saddle on a saw lanyard is unusual. I do this a lot because I often work by myself and don't have anybody on the ground to pull branches off my line. It's more weight to carry, but I use a piece of Velocity when I do this to keep the weight down. It's also cool to be able to take a different route through the branches on my out than I took on the way in without having to spend 5 minutes pulling all my rope through. It means I can trim one side of a tree on the way up and the other side on the way down.

[NeTree]

Seems to be getting more popular, Sean. I don't advocate working alone, though.

[gf beranek]

Working alone? Oh yeah. Though not approved by a wide margin I'd bet half the independents out there do it.

And most of the time when an independent works with a groundie and property owner present neither one are qualified for aerial rescue. Even if the equipment was on the ground to do it.

And this is only one reason why an independent has to be more careful than a wage earner on a crew.

"The only sure thing I can say about working alone is, if something goes wrong there's no one to blame but yourself."

[jomoco]

I've never one handed a saw in my life, Burnham. At least not that I'll admit. ;)

I like the goal of your technique, but not the mechanics of how you accomplish it Skwerl.

Seems to me that at the zero gravity point your binered rope connections could loosen enough to cause problems eventually, particularly with short logs.

Take a half hitch first and you'll be better off in my opinion Skwerl.

I use two nylon strap loops and biners to accomplish the same thing, but I cinch with pure strap on the load and anchor points and connecting them together with the biners in a double failsafe configuration of biner to strap twice.

Much better gripping and holding configuration that should work well from a bucket.

The biners are heavier than the rope is in close to zero gravity for just long enough to loosen up in your configuration to worry me a little Skwerl.

Please don't take offense if I'm wrong good buddy, it happens to me daily.

jomoco

[Treevet]

Most "independents" as you call them, when young, understand that concept and are willing to take that risk, occasionally, to gain the reward when bills need to be paid.

Some, on the other hand, see themselves for life, as wage earners and want to keep risk at a minimum. Different strokes...

(reply to Jerry's post as I think another post was just made)

[Treevet]

I know it is easier to have the knotless or hitchless rigging on the lanyard and I did it for a long time with a spliced climbing snap. When I threw that out and started hitching on the piece and girth hitching on the tree, I liked the ability to adjust the length afforded by the hitch or knot with or without marls. Also I feel the hitch/knot and marl absorbs some of the shock.

[Skwerl]

I have different length slings so I can usually grab one that's the right length. I can also connect two together and/or take two wraps on the limb. When there's no fork or nub big enough to prevent slipping, I'll usually wrap the rope twice. On that particular cut there's a nub that you can see plus there was another larger nub on the back side. I'm quite anal about making sure the rigging won't slip. That double braid polyester rope also tends to grab the bark a little, sort of like velcro but not that much.

I appreciate your concern though, and those are good observations to mention for someone who might want to imitate this type of rigging. It's very easy to do it wrong and have it fail if you're not thinking through every link in the chain.

[jomoco]

I have different length slings so I can usually grab one that's the right length. I can also connect two together and/or take two wraps on the limb. When there's no fork or nub big enough to prevent slipping, I'll usually wrap the rope twice. On that particular cut there's a nub that you can see plus there was another larger nub on the back side. I'm quite anal about making sure the rigging won't slip. That double braid polyester rope also tends to grab the bark a little, sort of like velcro but not that much.

I appreciate your concern though, and those are good observations to mention for someone who might want to imitate this type of rigging. It's very easy to do it wrong and have it fail if you're not thinking through every link in the chain.

Far out Skwerl I agree, and am kinda anal about the subject myself!

Or hadn't you noticed?

Thanks for not taking offense mate.

jomoco