Twister

[stig]

Just as I thought I had seen it all, they came up with something new!!

I was asked to take this oak down, as it is near a walk-path and may eventually fall by itself and according to Murphy's law and all, if it does, it'll be when a bunch of people are having a picnic under it.

It has been twisted by storm almost a full turn. There is a tremendous amount of energy stored in it, waiting to seize an unwary chainsaw.
The top is hung fairly solidly in a slightly smaller tree, and all the other trees around are way smaller. So no chance of getting above it, to cut the top loose from the other tree.
The last picture shows the trunk seen from the backside.
Of course I could fix a " Gerry Beranek redwood style" heavy wire in the top of it and pull it out with a D9 Cat, but I don't have reasonable access to that kind of gear.
I really can't figure which way it'll roll, when released from the stump and also I think it'll pretty much blow up when I set saw to it, even if I try to carefully "beaver" my way in from all sides.

I think I'll let the local demolition boys blow it off the stump or if that fails, try to put a chain around it and "beaver" away, hoping for the best.

I'm certainly no greenhorn when it comes to storm clean-up, but this one has got me stumped.

Suggestions, anyone?

[Mr. Sir]

It reminds me of a rattlesnake, coiled up and ready to strike! :O

It almost looks like you could tie into that tree on the left, but the picture may be deceiving.

I'd probably just nibble away at the trunk trying to read it as I cut.

[blue]

http://areopagus1.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/dynamite_1.jpg

[Burnham]

Good grief...that one just shouts at me, "saw eater". The kind that just as you get it cut enough to move a little, it sits on the bar and then twists and grinds the bar and powerhead into a pretzel and a pile of small, expensive bits.

I'd try the binders on it, Stig. At least three. Then open it up with a series of shallow wedge shaped cuts to improve your chances of keeping the saw. Like Brett says, read as you go. You can do it...probably :).

This is a time where cutting with the outer portion of a long bar can add a little bit of space between you and the tree, a good thing imo.

[sawinredneck]

Man is that a mess Stig!! I agree with Burnham, that sucker is just waiting to eat a saw!!
I am going to say it will roll to the right, but I'd have no idea where to cut it to unload it! Seems to me if you try an work the butt at all it's going to spring out at you.
Is there an option of a crane? Maybe just get the top out of the snag, blow it out, then lower the butt down? Once down you can carefully work your way back down to remove energy?
I like the demo option, but I see two? problems. They blow the stump and it's still hung. Ok, rope it and roll it out?
The other, if they can get charges set, without getting hurt, can the blow the whole stump without special charges?
I'll say, I'm glad it's not my baby!! Good luck man!

[Stumper]

Run Stig. Run!

[Bounce]

That has got to be one of the wierdest breaks I've ever seen. It is probably impossible to determine which way it will move once the cut starts. I like Burnham's idea of a long bar so you can stand a bit farther away.

[woodworkingboy]

Wicked looking! Love that tension wood, :|: even sawn up and dry material can still hold the stress and go nuts when pushed through a table saw.

Looks like unpredictable barber chair material there, need a haircut, Stig?

Be careful for sure!

[No_Bivy]

http://areopagus1.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/dynamite_1.jpg

8)hell yeah:D

[sotc]

nasty, doesnt look like something id want to try to cut. wary or not i doubt you could safely cut that let alone not lose a bar. any chance of winching a roll out of it? if blowing its an option i think id blow the tree its hung in

[Skwerl]

I think putting a chain binder or heavy ratchet strap around the trunk just above your notch might help reduce unexpected movement within the wood. I'd cut it, just use a saw with an old bar and waller out the cut a little at a time. Keep some wedges handy in case it sticks.

[No_Bivy]

see the open part.....fill it with explosives and run.......dont forget to video it though:D

[CurSedVoyce]

Whittle and whittle and whittle some more... Spooky...

[fallguy]

Stig a local nature center near me was hit by a tornado 20 years ago. They have oak trunk that looks just like that set in a display they have in there interpretive center. It is about 20" DBH. It does not look like it unwrapped it self when they cut it, but I can't say for sure as I was not there when they took it down. Good luck

[okietreedude]

vote number 3 for the dynamite.

[CurSedVoyce]

http://www.guerraeterna.com/archives/coyote_acme.jpg

YUP:thumbup:

Hey John.... You ever look at the tree cannon mythbusters made.. ?
You may want to blow up a tree, but maybe shooting out of a tree would be cooler if you took out an ugly stick with the cannon ball LOL

[CurSedVoyce]

Hey Stig... This might work HAHAHA

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[Old Monkey]

I like the idea of throwing chain bucklers on it. I might score the trunk high and then low with my power polesaw to try to trigger any tension release at a safer distance. Then I would put a small face in it. Then I would go to my workshop and build a robot out of old scraps to sit at the base and make the back cut while I hid safely a great distance away.

Good luck and if things don't go well can I have your hot tub?

[blue]

I reckon my plan would work;)
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[No_Bivy]

no problem......:lol:

[thattreeguy]

Stig
ive done a few of those trees; bring your binders,(and a change of drawers) use several, and a line in the top to pull is nice,
sure a d-8 with 5/8 cable and choker would be handy but how a bout a 5/8 rope to another tree with a block, to a 4x4 tractor or truck for your pull,
trunk bound in several places
using a 32 or 36 in saw slowly scratch in your face and back cut,
step back and pull, if she doesnt go over, you may end up having to go in and nip a bit off here and there
when youre doing this, you will probabally sh1t up your neck, but the margarita afterwards helps
i wont lie ta ya i had my margarita 1st
and it was a pitcher, did my 1st one like that in 99 or 2000 in Illiana...i think i was between indiana and illinois in the south western end of the state, tornado screwed off trees for miles, my friend was a local reserve cop, he sent me to hard hit neighborhoods as soon as he seen them, great salesman
scary trees, i think a lil blasting would be cool if there were no targets nearby
good luck and be safe

[darkstar]

I like the idea of setting a bull line and ripping it down.

[stig]

Thanks for your input everybody.
I'll wait till we have a skidder on hand anyway and do the chainbinder thing. Once it is cut free from the stump, the skidder can pull it out of the tree it's hanging in.
I'll post some pics, once I get it done.

[Stumper]

Be cautious Stig.

[stig]

Don't worry, I'm not going to cut that one with my 18" bar.
I am actually a very cautious guy, which is why I've survived 30 years in this business with only a broken back, two bad knees and a busted hand to show for it;)

[lumberjack]

(Referencing the top left picture)

It looks like there's water around it? Is clean up an issue or can you dump the trees (looks like 2) the tree will hit as it first starts going right?

Assuming the other two trees can be felled I'd set a sturdy rope on the twisted tree setting up to pull to the right somewhere around the 2 trees that it's propped against.

Then face the 2 prop trees to to the right along the arc the twisted tree will follow to the ground and pretension the rope to as much as it's set up to handle.

Then I'd start at the back left helix of the twisted tree and start nipping it towards the right. Assuming all is going well as it went further and further to the right, I'd make a top cut that intersected the first kerf keeping the saw from getting pinched. I'd keep going right until I got to my "corner" if I was cutting a notch to follow the other 2 trees arc. Then come back and start nipping the front left headed right until it goes over, cutting for clearance as needed. I'd use a 36" bar on a 440/460 to keep me as far back as reasonable.

That's my 2 cents. I've never had to fell a twisted tree like that, but I've used this method on similarly splinted/shook and sized oaks that always seem to be loaded heavily due to lean or part of the canopy breaking off.

[sotc]

Don't worry, I'm not going to cut that one with my 18" bar.
I am actually a very cautious guy, which is why I've survived 30 years in this business with only a broken back, two bad knees and a busted hand to show for it;)

thats not very reassuring:lol:

[blue]

A cool experiment would be to blow the top off just below the split and see what happens to the remaining part of the standing trunk.
Would it untwist or remain the same?

[thattreeguy]

just go blow it off for him blue

[Jamin Mayer]

I'm curious how this is going to work out.

[woodworkingboy]

That is a confusing looking sucker. Negative possibilities easily come to mind.

[CurSedVoyce]

We lost part of an ugly this winter.. It's a partial twister I am going to have to climb to take the messed up part off first before I fell it :( Lost a couple of 75' leaders. 50"dbh Bull Pine.

[stig]

Nasty looking.
I wonder how many saws you can get stuck in that thing.

I'm still waiting for a skidder, to deal with mine.

[TheTreeWiseMen]

Any chance of video footage when you tackle that bad boy Stig?

[Burnham]

That one does look horrid, Stephen. From what I can see in the pics, I'd try to start out at the tips and work my way back to the twisted portion. Got any decent high tie-in point?

[CurSedVoyce]

Yes and yes Burnam. The plan is start on the tips and work my way back trying to get a more predictable stress on the wood. I have a good high TIP on the live half of the tree right above the codom I am going to take off. Figure my power pole saw is also going to come in handy on getting the tips cut back safely. Keep me out from under it with a 12 foot reach.. ;)
Once the nasty stuff is cut off I will just lay the rest of the tree down. It's pretty much 1/2 pecker pole at this point. With the kids, I really don't want to risk it breaking at any given time.

[Burnham]

That sounds like a solid plan. Once you get some of the smaller stuff off, I'd guess you'll need to work on top of the broken limb, tied in high.

Once, in a somewhat similar situation, with a climbing partner I really trusted, I set a second single line from me to the ground support. The instructions were to pull me back from the tree if I signaled to do so...that would swing me off of the limb with the capability to hold me out away from it, suspended from my climb line, but with return swing restrained.

There was only one cut where I felt exposed to possible contact as the piece came free, and I could tell that was going to likely be the case...I talked to my groundie before I started cutting, and set it all up...worked a treat.

No way to tell if you might need something like that from here, but something you might consider.

[CurSedVoyce]

I'll know more when I am on top of the limb and also see how much loading I take off the fibers by whittling the leaders back toward the codom. From what I have seen thus far I doubt I will need to be swung away. I will keep that little trick in mind though ;) Thanks B. I hope I can get Katy to film it if I get a new memory card. Really would like to see a vid of Stig doing his twisty :D His looks more hazardous than mine. BTW, I don't know if you can tell by the pics, but those limbs went 90 degrees over from the lay....

[woodworkingboy]

Can't exert too much caution with those limbs under tension, even a small whippy one can easily break your face. Be extra careful!

[CurSedVoyce]

You know it brother.....

[pantheraba]

Here are some twisters we ran into at Katrina. I don't remember the limbs being much of a problem, but the trunk was plenty scary. It groaned and popped as I nibbled away at it. I have some video of that...I'll try to track it down sometime.

[CurSedVoyce]

Kinda like protesting you nibbling at them. They can be really nerve racking.

[pantheraba]

Kinda like protesting you nibbling at them. They can be really nerve racking.

I didn't have my 36" bar then, I think I used my 019T because it was light and I could move out of the way quickly if I needed to.

I think the long bar might have been better.

[sawinredneck]

I didn't have my 36" bar then, I think I used my 019T because it was light and I could move out of the way quickly if I needed to.

I think the long bar might have been better.

You have to watch that as well Gary. I've gotten complacent a time or two with the long bar because I was out of harms way and gotten it bound up. Then you have a mess with two people in harms way and having to use a smaller saw.

[CurSedVoyce]

I think sometimes you just get a feeling what is going to work best for the situation. I can say my pole saws rock on the ones that are a bit high for running a large bar into, as long as the diameter is do-able. Sometimes it's my 036 with a 24 or ..... A small saw does allow you to move out quick. Why I guess I like the pole saws so much... I am back off from what I am cutting.. I have a 6 foot and a 12 foot with 10" bars. Amazing what you can do with them. You can really reach in and take out a spring loaded limb on a fallen tree NP.

[stig]

I spent about a year clearing large ares of blowdowns after the storm in 81.
Then again in 93 and finally after the " storm of the century" in 99.
The last one had the largest amount of timber blown over in any recorded storm here. It totalled an amount equivallent to 2 years logging for the whole country.
Took a while to clean up, especially because a lot of the logs were valuable hardwood, where you had to try to save the logs.
In conifers, we "just" cut them loose and let the mechanical harvesters take it from there. Cutting before a harvester, you really get to work a lot of blowdown.
Normally I am no lover of long bars( guess you all know that by now) but for blown down trees still attached to the roots, I use nothing shorter than 30".
Being able to make tricky cuts while keeping your distance is important.

[pantheraba]

Normally I am no lover of long bars( guess you all know that by now) but for blown down trees still attached to the roots, I use nothing shorter than 30".
Being able to make tricky cuts while keeping your distance is important.

Good input, Stig....I appreciate a voice of experience...thanks.

[Bermy]

Those are amazing pictures Stig...you should email them to Claus Mattheck, the biomechanics guru.

Forgive my ignorance, but did the wind twist that one time to get it like that or it finally failed in a wind storm after years of growing twisted? Never seen anything like it!

[thattreeguy]

I didn't have my 36" bar then, I think I used my 019T because it was light and I could move out of the way quickly if I needed to.

I think the long bar might have been better.

had one of my guys loose 7 teeth from a short bar,
now everyone likes a 32" bar

[stig]

Bermy, it was the result of just one big gust of wind in the last storm we had.
I've never seen one so bad either. I don't know when I'll get a skidder close enough to be able to fall it. But now I have a pretty good plan about how to do it.