Ice tail bridge on TreeFlex

[startersplice]

Thinking about replacing my TreeFlex bridge with Icetail splice. Locking brummel on one side, standard brummel on other.
Tail will be tucked for a total of 150mm through brummel and into finger trap.
Lock stitching on both sides.
What do you think regards safety ect??

[No_Bivy]

ice tail wears out fast

[startersplice]

I have a standard Alu ring sliding on the bridge. So your standard loads sliding side to side. Is there a better high BL. hollow braid that i could use?

[MasterBlaster]

Welcome to the TreeHouse, StarterSplice! :beer:

[startersplice]

Cheers!

[Wagnaw]

I would cover it with the outer cover of a suitable double braid to protect it. Honestly, I bet 10mm beeline would work best.

[NickfromWI]

I would cover it with the outer cover of a suitable double braid to protect it. Honestly, I bet 10mm beeline would work best.

This is a good idea. I've tried technora, vectran, and kevlar as bridge materials and they don't handle that shear loading/abrasion well at all. I really prefer polyester as my bridge material.

Covering your bridge as stated above will allow you to have the strength while protecting the fibers.

Will you share pics of what you make?

Welcome to the tree house!

love
nick

[startersplice]

Thanks for the advice Wagnaw and Nick. I will get some Beeline ordered in. I've allready spliced the Icetail onto the TreeFlex will post pic soon as. Cheers

[Blinky]

Welcome StarterSplice.

Seems like icetail and polyester would behave similar. I'm with those other guys on the cover though, I think it'll get trashed quick if you don't.

I've been searching for the perfect bridge too. This is my latest bridge mutation...

http://www.arborcarolina.com/_Images/VectranBridge_1.jpghttp://www.arborcarolina.com/_Images/VectranBridge_2.jpg


I made two Vectran bridges using HRC core with locked Brummels on both ends. Then i covered it with the jacket from some old Mammut kernmantle I had lying around, I've used the jacket from Velocity too.

A lucky side effect is that the bridge has a sort of oval crossection more or less like the original webbing bridge. Been using it about three months now. So far, so good.

[Wagnaw]

That's really nice. I like that! :D

[Burnham]

No kidding, that looks mighty fine!

[startersplice]

That looks good!
Thinking about ditching the shackles and splicing straight into the webbing, hoping that this will stop the sliding Alu D from catching when turning side 2 side. What u think?

[Wagnaw]

If that's what you want... I would be cautious about the possible wear from having fabric on fabric friction. Use of a smaller ring for the center Dee may help without removing the shackles. ...but no harm in trying and seeing if you like it.

[lumberjack]

I'd go with a locking brummel on each end. Unless there's captive hardware on each end and it's not worth unlaying the rope, I prefer the security.

[hmm]

I, thou not a splicer, but an owner of a TF, would not use ICE, as i think it is just to soft a cord. either blinky's suggestion, NICE looking bridge, or something with a cover.




That looks good!
Thinking about ditching the shackles and splicing straight into the webbing, hoping that this will stop the sliding Alu D from catching when turning side 2 side. What u think?

CONCERN - about removing the shackles - the leg straps/rings are attached there, where would you then attach those?

I agree that the standard bridge is stiff and the cover does bunch and at times cause the biner to bump as it moves as you turn from side to side.

Blinky's example, somewhat round would move, IMO, smoother.

OH YA

Welcome to the house

[startersplice]

I've been thinking about the fabric on rope friction, maybe i could put a thimble in each eye splice?
Can eye splices take a 3-way load??
Here is a pic of the bridge.
If you guys think its bad then i will cut straight off!

[startersplice]

here r some pics

[High Scale]

The thing I didn't like about the Treeflex was the shackles, the ring jumping across them during sideways movement was a little alarming I found.

[No_Bivy]

chip....what are all those marks on that pencil?

[Blinky]

chip....what are all those marks on that pencil?

I have no idea. Wasn't my pencil, I stole it.

[Blinky]

The only problem I see is the potential for loading across the eye splice. Seems like I remember somebody on the Buzz doing a Treeflex bridge with thimbles and no shackles. Family Tree maybe?

I had a problem with the ring slipping over the shackles on my BFII. I switched from one big ring to two small ones.

The thing about a bridge is... if it fails, you're dead. It has to be absolutely bombproof if you want to climb confidently on it.
Eliminating the shackles makes sense, they're a potential failure point. I haven't found a good way to do it though; I just keep locktite on the threads.

[MasterBlaster]

I'm leery of bridges like that, too.

[DMc]

here r some pics

Startersplice, I was on a different climbing forum where they were talking about some testing done on spliced eyes, whipped and stitched in use with friction hitch material. This showed failure rates well below the tensile strength.

Aramid fibers are self-abrasive so their use has been limited. Where they excell at surviving friction heat they fail miserably with repeated bending.

Also on a bridge you have to take into consideration that you are applying additional forces. Check out a sling chart and you will see that a sling used in a similar manner will have a multiplier of the forces that rise dramatically with an increased angle.

I would not use friction hitch material in a bridge application.

Dave

[NickfromWI]

Startersplice- is plain to see that you've got the hand for splicing. It looks very neat and tidy. However, when dealing with a high modulus fiber, which are known to be slippery, I personally wouldn't feel comfortable climbing on the technora without a locking brummel on each side. The security from a non locking splice comes purely from compression, which comes from the amount of rope you bury. You sling is barely a foot long. Does the bury run the full length? The bury for that size rope would be about a foot.

How handy are you with leather? Maybe you could protect the webbing to prevent chafe?

Smooth design, though! I might have to borrow this idea for my treeflex.

Love
nick

[startersplice]

Hi Nick, the bury is only 150mm / 6"
So not long enough from what your saying.
Getting bad vibes about the splice so i'm going to cut it off and start again.
How do you create a locking brummel on both sides with out opening the strands wide enough to poke the entire harness through??
If i re spliced with standard tenex and ran the bury full length 12" with a cover,what would you think about 3-way load ect...
Cheers all for the input

[NickfromWI]

There's a decent chance that it'll hold fine, but the prob is that there isn't a way to KNOW it's good. The locked brummels have to tear open for failure. It's readily accepted (i think) that it won't happen.

I bet if you were to call Samson on this one, they wouldn't recommend you do it. Might be worth the call. It would also be good to ask them if you DID want to splice it without a locked brummel, how long does the bury need to be.

To do a locked brummel on each side you have to unweave the rope, form the brummel, then put the tail back together. It takes practice to get it right, but it is a handy trick to have in your bag of skills.

love
nick

[hmm]

to answer blinky with the TF and thimbles "familytree" YES


i agree with the issue with the big ring on the bridge and the cover, it does bind and the ring fits nice over the shackles. why not replace the ring with a small one. pros and cons there also - the SIZE as they say.

Looks good what you did

[jamie]

I'm with eeryone else here. nothing i can add that hasn't been said already. i like the duel vectran core though, thats nice

Jamie

[moray]

Lot of good comments here. I've been doing some experiments with the aim of replacing my rope bridge, but I've had to put them on hold because of the cold weather, so I have no results to report.

With respect to the eye being loaded from more than one direction, this should only be a problem if the bury is forced to emerge from the splice at a sharp angle. The splice will be strongest when the bury emerges nearly parallel with the rope.

Removing the shackles to tie directly to the webbing creates another problem, though. I have read reports of experiments in which two ropes were girth hitched end to end, then pulled to failure. They failed at much lower loads than when they were both girth hitched to a common steel ring. This phenomenon may come into play here. Another issue is the shape of the webbing edges. They are, from the point of view of your bridge, a whole lot sharper than the shackle. The extra-sharp bend, or bends, in the bridge eye will be weak points.

These may all be minor issues, but as Nick says, how do you KNOW?

[chris_girard]

To do a locked brummel on each side you have to unweave the rope, form the brummel, then put the tail back together. It takes practice to get it right, but it is a handy trick to have in your bag of skills.

love
nick

Nick instead of unweaving the rope to form the brummel, could you use the locking Mobius Brunnel that Stanley Longstaff showed Brion Toss how to do? Its illustrated in Toss' Riggers Apprentice book just before the double braid eye splice.

I seem to remember Octaviuos Benton showing this at the workshop when we were making eye to eye prusiks.

[Blinky]

The mobius won't work because you can't capture the webbing.

[startersplice]

Hi All,
I've just bought a set of Selma push fids.
There is a picture of a locked eye splice, anybody seen one of these.
I don't understand how it works?
Would it be like a Brummel / Locking Brummel?

[startersplice]

Anybody got pics of the mobius, Blinky mentioned??

[moray]

...I don't understand how it works?
Would it be like a Brummel / Locking Brummel?

I would call it a distant cousin. It would supply a lot of friction that would make it very hard for the splice bury to start slipping. It would also crush the shit out of the rope at the splice throat, seriously weakening it. Worst of all, should the bury actually come out, you are toast--it will not hold anything by itself. The locking Brummel will. Perhaps I am missing something, but the structure you picture looks pretty much worthless to me.

Oh yeah, the moebius. It is just a locked Brummel, but it is made in place. You only need access to one end of the rope. Magic! But as Blinky rightly says, you cannot capture anything in the eye that results.

[NickfromWI]

If I were you, I would throw away the directions that come with the Selma fids.

Also- you might need to tape the tops of the fids where the metal comes together. Mine have the tendency to pinch the inner fibers of the ropes as it's sliding through.

That pic you show is not a "locked splice" at all.

love
nick