A fair sized tulip I've bid on-

[rbtree]

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no huge limbs, just a complex tree with a lot of tedious work..with or without a crane. Whaddya'll think? price?

[NeTree]

I'm thinking first choice would be a crane. Around here, it'd fetch about $3,800.

[lumberjack]

Here I'd bid in the $2.8-4k range and do it w/o a crane, I've got the time.

Looked like a 40-50" DBH tree? If the car port gate is over 5.5', I'd look hard into weasling my lift into the back yard.

The mini could handle the wood.

[Ryan]

How tall do you think it is Roger? I'm terrible at estimating height.

[Skwerl]

With that small of a landing zone under the tree, I'm thinking it would be faster and easier to climb instead of using a mini lift. You'd lose too much working area under the tree.

Either crane it out where a couple guys can have some room to disect the pieces and chip it up or else put 3-4 guys on the back yard to attack each limb as it hits the ground. Not enough room to let stuff pile up in that tiny back yard.

So it depends on your resources I guess. If you're as slow as everybody else, it might be worth it to put the extra ground help on it and provide a half dozen guys with a couple days of work doing it all manually.

[rbtree]

Here I'd bid in the $2.8-4k range and do it w/o a crane, I've got the time.

Looked like a 40-50" DBH tree? If the car port gate is over 5.5', I'd look hard into weasling my lift into the back yard.

The mini could handle the wood.

yup, about 48"

I don't have to mess with the wood, that's what my firewood guy is for....

The work zone back there is too small for your spider, I'm sure. it's maybe 35 feet square, if that.

The corners of the house and garage will have to be protected, and maybe the post that's kinda in the way.

[rbtree]

With that small of a landing zone under the tree, I'm thinking it would be faster and easier to climb instead of using a mini lift. You'd lose too much working area under the tree.


spot on, bro!

She's a tedious one, fo sho....even with a crane, we'd need to rig out alot of the lower smaller stuff...to keep within my bid (which has a plus or minus $500 range), we'd need to keep the total crane bill at 7 hours---4.5 working, 2.5 travel and set-up. $165/hr for a 38 ton with 127' of reach. Pretty much the same crane as the larger one that Hollywood No-sack brought in....


oh, now, who's slow, again? heh!

[rbtree]

How tall do you think it is Roger? I'm terrible at estimating height.

85-90, could be 95....

[NeTree]

Yeah, but I'm betting you'll show up before 2 in the afternoon to start.

[lumberjack]

It wouldn't fit in a 48" area anyway, but it sets up in a 14' square area.

Like I said, I'd look hard at using it, not an absolute.

It's far easier for me to cut and toss from there with maybe 1 helper than it is for me to climb and have an army of inexperianced ground guys. The house looked small enough to toss over.

Ideal? Of course not. Low overhead with less chance for a mess up with inexperianced groundies? Sure. More money in my pocket at the end of the job? Sure.

But if it won't fit, it won't fit and I'd climb it and use the mini to handle the wood.

[rbtree]

As Brian said, your lift would take up half the drop zone. And, what your working height?

As for us, we have an allstar crew....

I do hope we get the job,and that Image Crane can help.

[sotc]

3500ish hauling everything?

[lumberjack]

As Brian said, your lift would take up half the drop zone. And, what your working height?

As for us, we have an allstar crew....

I do hope we get the job,and that Image Crane can help.

60', 30' of outreach.

And for the record, it'd take up 1/6th of the LZ, after it's set up and minimized.:P


I to hope you get it.8):D:)

[No_Bivy]

crane......or miniskid access to back

[lumberjack]

If I didn't have and couldn't get a mini, I'd crane it for sure.

[Al Smith]

Those things get planted for shade trees around here .Evidently people don't think they will grow or something . Because they become a nuisance tree when they get some size to them .

You'd have to give the firewood away ,it isn't very good stuff .

[wiley_p]

What's the radius? Hopefully under 65'.

[darkstar]

This time of year two 10 hour days .
Get out of the stump grinding if possible and the raking.
3400.

[MasterBlaster]

I would do it in two days. Day one - Climb/rig/rope as much as possible. Day two - Crane.

[rbtree]

What's the radius? Hopefully under 65'.

65-70'.....but no need to lift anything over 3000 lb....

this is the load chart for Image's crane...I don'tknow which model it is.....the S might work if we kept the loads to ~2500 lb, but the SHL has a much better chart.

http://www.allcraneloadcharts.com/LoadChartPDFHandler.ashx?PDFID=221

[rbtree]

I would do it in two days. Day one - Climb/rig/rope as much as possible. Day two - Crane.

I think we could pull it off in one....if the crane company doesn't mind showing up at 11 am...we could have all the lower stuff brushed by then.

[vharrison]

Let us know if you get it!

[MasterBlaster]

I think completing that job in one day would be pushing it. I certainly wouldn't bid it as being a one day job.

[rbtree]

Agreed, Butch.

You guys talking of minis...there's no need for one...the drag is only a few feet to the wide gate. There's no need to deal with the wood.....just keep it out of the drop zone. and if we crane it, it would be easy to cut up. Plus, the firewood guy has a chain saw.

And as there's no technical rigging needed, just a lot of tedious lowering, so a lift wouldn't help much if at all, and would definitely get in the way, as the drop zone is so small.

[darkstar]

One day seems to be pushing that one big time .Maybe if you show at 6 and leave at 8.
What are you ball parking it at again ?

[NeTree]

One day is entirely reasonable.

One climber, one crane, three on brush detail, and a 16" chipper.

Crane sections to the LZ, brushers dissect and chip, while climber and crane are rigging next piece.

[MasterBlaster]

You're just too awesome, Erik.

[darkstar]

At that distance away the crane time would be alot.

[Al Smith]

Well RB it's not like you are a newbe or something to this stuff .

All I can say is don't sell yourself short .

[NeTree]

You're just too awesome, Erik.


I know.










:P

[wiley_p]

Roger be smart. At that radius, with that small of a dz, you need to count on taking more than a day.

[NeTree]

Looked at the vid again. About 10 picks with a 50 tonner.

I noticed you're rolling with a smaller unit; that'd eat up more time.

Either way, we know Rog can git'r'done.

[Jonseredbred]

Whats behind the garage?? Could you set up a crane in the neighbors area to the left of the customer's house???

$3600.00 takedown, full cleanup no stump would be top dollar around here.

Truth be told it would stand for along time as no one here would pay that much$$$.

[NeTree]

Truth be told it would stand for along time as no one here would pay that much$$$.

About the same here, but I wouldn't do it for less, either. :D

[Mr. Sir]

Use the right tool for the job:

[Jonseredbred]

Ha! Then you could call Nosak to re roof all the blown off shingles.

[Mr. Sir]

There's a guy around here with a pick-up and a dump trailer. Written in spraypaint on the sides of the trailer is, and I quote, "TREE REMOVAL AND ROOF REPAIR" :O

[Jonseredbred]

Go get a fizz can then change "and" to "then".

I dare you.

[Mr. Sir]

:lol: I'll be sure to get pics if I do. :/:

[Old Monkey]

Looks fun Roger. I get to trim one like that this spring. Its probably the biggest in this town. While I understand the profit motive behind getting a crane and machinery to get jobs done, I am leaning towards hiring guys to do the physical work as there are a lot of people who need work.

[wiley_p]

On that note Darin, I think there is more profit in having a couple of extra hands in moving debris out front. The crane bill will be over a grand.

[rbtree]

Roger be smart. At that radius, with that small of a dz, you need to count on taking more than a day.

The DZ behind the house is small. Out front, where the crane would set up, we've got scads of room. We could crane it out in 12-15 picks, maybe leaving the bottom 20 feet to firewood down. 4 hours of craning. Should be enough $ left over for labor.

That said, the work is mainly tedious and repetitive, and could be done craneless.

[Mr. Sir]

If there's a crane on the job anyway, why would you bother brushing out the lower stuff? It just doesn't make sense to me to spend 3 or 4 hours rigging when the crane can do a few picks in 30 minutes or less. If I have a crane on a job, I let the crane do EVERYTHING. The only exception is when we need to cut something for access or to open up a LZ.

[wiley_p]

if you are off just a bit on your radius, and the tree is 95' tall, you will have difficulty getting your crane time done in 4 hours. He won't have much tip over the load a first, which means you are limited to only one motion for lift. 12-15 picks in 4hours at that radius is pushing it. Don' use a truck mount and you can get closer.

[rbtree]

If there's a crane on the job anyway, why would you bother brushing out the lower stuff? It just doesn't make sense to me to spend 3 or 4 hours rigging when the crane can do a few picks in 30 minutes or less. If I have a crane on a job, I let the crane do EVERYTHING. The only exception is when we need to cut something for access or to open up a LZ.

Because much of the lower stuff is too small to be craning. So it'll go relatively quickly.

That's the way we did 2 maples last Thursday. Took an hour with a climber in each tree to do about 15 limbs, that would have required maybe 10 crane picks. Then the two trees required 16-20 picks total, which was done in about 3.5 hours. Smaller, quicker crane, and radius of 25-35 feet, so much easier.

[rbtree]

if you are off just a bit on your radius, and the tree is 95' tall, you will have difficulty getting your crane time done in 4 hours. He won't have much tip over the load a first, which means you are limited to only one motion for lift. 12-15 picks in 4hours at that radius is pushing it. Don' use a truck mount and you can get closer.

I don't think height's an issue, as the tree base is several feet below street level, and it's likely under 95 feet anyhow.

Crane would be parked sideways to the tree, on street and pk strip and outriggers just inside the sidewalk. Can you explain your meaning "don't use a truck mount", please?

[Mr. Sir]

Because much of the lower stuff is too small to be craning. So it'll go relatively quickly.

That's the way we did 2 maples last Thursday. Took an hour with a climber in each tree to do about 15 limbs, that would have required maybe 10 crane picks. Then the two trees required 16-20 picks total, which was done in about 3.5 hours. Smaller, quicker crane, and radius of 25-35 feet, so much easier.

Can you work it from the top down with the crane and just leave the lower stuff attached to the big trunks to be picked up on the last few picks?

[rbtree]

Can you work it from the top down with the crane and just leave the lower stuff attached to the big trunks to be picked up on the last few picks?

sure, from the top down, but, as I said, much of the low stuff is easy, just like the job we did Thursday. Much more cost effective to save crane time, at $165 per hr....plus, there's no need to crane the lower 20 feet of wood (which has some branches on it) to further save crane time.

[Mr. Sir]

Gotcha! :thumbup:

[wiley_p]

It's all about radius/tip height. If you can get a better crane in there, which will be closer, you have a better tip height, and a better cap. some boom trucks charts are different off the side, why use hourly price to determine what crane to use? A bigger rig, like a Demag, would get closer, and even if it can't you have more boom, which means increased radius isn't as big a deal. :evil:

[darkstar]

So what are you bidding Roger.
My price is 1700 a day.
Two days, so 3400.
If push came to shove 2950 no less.

[rbtree]

I had bid $4000, plus or minus $500. Customer just gave us the job at $3500-3800.......

I'm good with that.....we just may do it without the crane.....as I know it will work.

We did a 140 foot 56" dbh lombardy poplar today in about 6 hours, for $2300 cash, houses on either side 12-15 feet away....rigged all but a few small limbs and the larger of the twin leads, which I chunked down.

[Koa Man]

A tree like that would get you at least $8000 here. I would take my time, use a mini to load wood (not much use for firewood here) and spend 3 days doing it nice and slow.

In 1993 I removed (no stump grinding) a 120 ft. albizzia tree with a dbh of 7 ft. for $5000. All the debris had to be carried through a 36" gate and down 4 steps to the street. Truck and chipper had to be parked across the 20 ft. wide street. I was the climber with 2 ground guys and it took us 4.5 days. After labor and disposal fees I cleared $3850 or $770 day for me. Not bad money even today and big money in 1993.

It really surprises me how cheap removals are in some areas of the country.

[Paul B]

wow. I live in a condo strata and could not imagine having to pony up 5 grand to get rid of a tree in my yard. Staggering.

[Koa Man]

If you think $5000 is high, in May of 2006 I removed a very large earpod tree at a private residence for $13800. I went there 1 day with 2 other guys to remove the branches near the house using my spider lift. The following week I had another tree company come in with their crane, 18 inch chipper and 75 ft. bucket to remove the rest of the tree for $4000 (paid them daily rate). I went back the following day with my wife driving my pickup and dump trailer and I driving my International to pick up all the logs with my Gehl loader. Disposal fees were about $700 total.

The guy I did the work for was extremely pleased with the job and paid me immediately. After ALL expenses, I cleared a little over $8000 for 3 days work.

[Paul B]

mind boggling. I think my first three cars cost me less than 13 thousand dollars. but I suppose its all relative. :)

[MasterBlaster]

Hawaii must be insane.

[No_Bivy]

Hawaii must be insane.

If we all move there prices will fall:lol:

[Koa Man]

I only need 1 of you to move here, preferably from an area where you are doing removals real cheap. I will sub all my removals to you. The only bad thing, all the tree companies I know, myself included, do mostly pruning. We don't have a whole lot of removals here.

My favorite job by far is a small to mid size tree removal. Easy and high profit.

[TC3]

That removal would go for under 2k around here. Sad. Piece it out, no biggie, but that trunk wood is gonna weigh a metric ton.

[CurSedVoyce]

You don't wanna know how many removals it takes me to make 13000 dollars....... I live in da low dolla distric.... HAHA

[rbtree]

Ya'll are forgetting that my firewood guy will handle the wood....

Only problem with this tree is it will be tedious, with so many individual limbs to lower...or toss some that are small.

There are plenty of low ball outfits here that would have been capable of doing this job (possibly) safely....but the customer was referred to just a couple of us good guys by our consulting arb (invaluable) associate.

[rbtree]

We did the tree Thursday, with 3 hours Friday to drop the last 25 feet, buck wood, and rake up.....20 yards of chips, maybe 6-8 cords of wood.....

Dave is an animal. He did all the climbing the first day, and kept three of us busy as bees...I was able to grab the camera a few times.....

It went well, faster than I thought.....

[MasterBlaster]

Don't you wish every job went like that! :beer:

[Gord]

Did you use a crane Roger?

[rbtree]

No, Gord...


I'm having internet troubles or YouTube or both, trying to get the video online......

[rbtree]

Still trying to load on YouTube, but it "took" on Vimeo:

<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3521460&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sho w_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00ad ef&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3521460&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sho w_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00ad ef&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><br /><a href="http://vimeo.com/3521460">Ruben Tulip poplar removal</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user1090539">Roger Barnett</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.

It's 9 minutes long, sorry.....

[CurSedVoyce]

Awesome job Roger! Great vid. Your crew really looks like they work well together. Efficient.:thumbup::rockon:

[sotc]

looked like lots of room to rig, cool

[Gord]

Nice vid Roger, looks like it went really smooth. Nice that there was as much of a yard as there was. I think I only cut down one Tulip Poplar in Vancouver, about the largest I know of in the area.

[Paul B]

thats a big one Gord, likely near the size of the bigger ones at Riverview.

[No_Bivy]

davey headqauters?

[pantheraba]

That was good work to watch...your guys look very competent.

How did you get such good resolution to your video? What was the format that you rendered it in and what size was the file? I have a good camera but mine look more grainy than yours.

[Al Smith]

That stuff is relatively light this time of year .That will change in about a month -6 weeks when the sap is rising .Gets heavy as lead . Then when it dries out it's about like balsa .

I usually get a part of a load of either tulip or cotton wood every year to test the saws in .Pizz poor firewood ,good for cookie cutting though .

Nice vid Roger .:thumbup:

[Ryan]

Great idea with the cardboard wrapped around the pillars in the car port.

[CurSedVoyce]

Great idea with the cardboard wrapped around the pillars in the car port.

Very good idea
Really well thought out..

[rbtree]

I saved the 44 mb .wmv file in Moviemaker the first 2-3 clips were accidentally shot at 160x120, the rest at 640x480.....that's my Canon A650, with grunge inside the lens.....

Had the LZ been much smaller, we would have really needed to use a crane.

Customer was OK with lawn damage, to save $ if doing a zero impact removal.

She was picky though...we still marked up some paint.....could have done a better job at protecting the gate and walls. Had to sweet talk her into letting that slide.....some soap and a bit of paint if needed would remedy the marks. And there were a couple small gutter dings which we straightened....the larger one was made by the pwr co leaning their heavy ladder up to drop the service at the mast.

[Al Smith]

People just don't think those little saplings will ever get that large .Then when they become a hazard they get to pay big time to rid themselves of them .

Not being a pro treeman I do very few removals .A few years back though I flipped a big tooth aspen that was around 30 inchs and 70 or 80 feet growing right out of a garage foundation . Now how dumb was that to let it go until it raised a garage floor ? Good grief .:(

It was so close I rocked a chain on the foundation but still was able to flip it sideways after removing some over growing branchs . I had a rope on that dude though .You never know ,ya know .

[Skwerl]

Al, it's ok to make the notch higher than the foundation. There's no rule that says you can only make one cut and that your notch/ drop cut has to be the lowest cut. It's quite simple to flush off the stump after the tree is down (without hitting the foundation). ;)

[Al Smith]

I was as high up as I could get B . Any higher it might have torn the eave off on the fall or so I felt at the time .

Looking back I should have placed a board between the base of the tree to protect the chain .I thought I could bore cut it but it proved I didn't have that much control .

I just felt the way the tree was growing that I needed to cause it to tilt near the ground more so the cut was about 2 feet up above ground .The poured concrete foundation was about 30 inchs high for some reason .

Any true tree man would have disassembled the thing from the top down .I'm just an old ground faller so I just do it how I do it . No damage other than a 12 dollar chain loop .

[Bodean]

Cool Video Roger, Pretty Damn Spry for a wise guy.

[sotc]

ha!

[rbtree]

Cool Video Roger, Pretty Damn Spry for a wise guy.


Yup, for a smart asz too....


no pics of me, though.....

[darkstar]

The groundies got hammered.
Nice Job.