Analyze this stump...!!

[Bermy]

I was on holiday in Australia, and found this stump when we overnighted at a campsite in the Grampian mountains in SA. It was called Smith's Mill after a family logging/milling business that used to be in the area for many years 'back in the day'.

I went for a walk by the stream, looking at the old bits of machinery and stuff and came upon this stump in the bush. A very deliberate, complicated series of cuts, has anybody ever seen anything like it before? What would have been the point of cutting it like this?

The tree was about 15' from the stream and had been felled away from it. It didn't look particularly old...all burnt up though

[MasterBlaster]

There's no analysis for that stump. The tree was felled by aliens!

[blue]

I reckon bottlejack to get it over the lean from the stream

[wll]

its a bore cut set up fer multiple wedges. its used on heavy leaners. i wood think they had no pull rope on it and it took about 16 houndred wedges

[wll]

I reckon bottlejack to get it over the lean from the streamthats prolly a better diognosis;)

[Bermy]

I reckon bottlejack to get it over the lean from the stream

So you think they made the face, came round the back, cut a platform and a slot for the jack put it in place, then cut the two horizontal backcut sides then the vertical bores on either side of the bottlejack? It looks like the right side vertical bore cut was the release with the fibre pull pattern...

[Old Monkey]

I am going with the jack idea.

[squisher]

I'm going with the jack idea too. As in I don't know jack about why they did that.:D

[Skwerl]

The slotted section in the middle might have been intended to help prevent twisting on the stump? If it was a heavy leaner and they needed a jack, then it would also make sense that it could have easily been a heavy side leaner.

Idunno, just guessing here. :|:

[squisher]

Maybe Stig fell that while he was there and that's as far as his short bars could reach.:lol:

[Bermy]

Maybe Stig fell that while he was there and that's as far as his short bars could reach.:lol:

Ha, ha! I was looking for signatures...it certainly is a work of art...
Imagine finding this in the middle of nowhere going on a random walk...only a treegeek would have these in their holiday picture album.:)

[pantheraba]

only a treegeek would have these in their holiday picture album.:)

But they are very cool pictures...complex and curious. Good find.8)

[NeTree]

Looks like a tongue-and-groove.

Not a good one, but hey... it obviously worked.

[No_Bivy]

ekka felled it...he had a vid bout that funky hinge thingy, if I remember correctly

[wll]

Looks like a tongue-and-groove.

Not a good one, but hey... it obviously worked.thats what i was thinking but instead i called it a bore cut. we dont see that cut used too often in pa. i am wondering if this cut is mostly used on evergreens? we have mostly hardwoods

[sawinredneck]

I remember reading about it, I guess at AS? It's suposed to help guide a heavy leaner that is weighted to one side or the other.
The theory goes that th tounge keeps it from twisting on the stump so you can overcome the lean.
Beyond my skills!

[NeTree]

Ain't that hard.

[No_Bivy]

obvious 50 cal :what:
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[rangerdanger]

Tongue and Groove, as already stated.

Here's Ekka's vid I found on youtube.
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[Bermy]

ekka felled it...he had a vid bout that funky hinge thingy, if I remember correctly

Nope...left him away up in Queensland...I did actually meet the fellow...:/: at an Aussie ISA shindig...

Back to the tree, that's an awfully complicated way to fell a leaner...thanks for the vid ranger...that would appear to solve my mystery, I knew I'd get the answer posting here!

[rangerdanger]

No_Bivy, that is an awesome vid!!

[Gord]

So the point of the technique is to be able to place a wedge on a small diameter tree before it sits back? Why not either make the backcut first or do a quarter-cut style backcut or a regular bored backcut and pound the wedge from the side. Any one of them is better than that goofy method. I've seen it demonstrated but never used...that says a lot right there.

[PCTREE]

Yeah the bottle jack idea didnt add up as if you look at the dropped tree the whole of the back rectangular "tounge" is still there so no place to put the jack. Interesting technique, might us it on a leaner if it didnt matter too much if it went bad otherwise Id just go ahead and top it..... Im a wuss.

[gf beranek]

I have to agree with Brian.

[CurSedVoyce]

Isn't that basically a Coos Bay cut with the use of a wedge and jack ?

[MasterBlaster]

Tongue and Groove, as already stated.

Here's Ekka's vid I found on youtube.


Too much drama - just throw the sucker. I bet that's the way PT Barnum tossed peckerpoles. ;)

And you wouldn't do that with any head leaner - your saw would get stuck. :drink:

[Skwerl]

I have to agree with Brian.

Be careful, Jerry. You might give me some credibility around here! :lol:

Actually it was just a guess. Erik actually knew the name of it, maybe he might expound on what he knows. :)

[Dave Shepard]

Tongue and Groove, as already stated.

Here's Ekka's vid I found on youtube.
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A metal splitting wedge and a claw Hammer? WTF? He gives opposable thumbed life forms a bad name.

[NeTree]

It's for smaller-diameter stuff, and let's you wedge through the tree. Not used very much; I've done it maybe 10 or 15 times in 20 years. There's other ways. No, you wouldn't use it on a head-leaner.

Something to put in the mental toolbox.

[MasterBlaster]

I must be outta the loop.

[NeTree]

Dave, this is about the only time a metal wedge would be acceptable, especially a narrow aluminum one.

I'd rather my 3lb sledge, myself, though.

[Dave Shepard]

Yeah, but that's splitting wedge, not a metal felling wedge. And I know you use what you've got on hand, but if you're going to show the entire online universe, get some tools together.

[MasterBlaster]

At least he sucked his gut in, somewhat.

[NeTree]

The splitting wedge is narrower and taller; hence, why you'd actually want to use it in this case, as the saw isn't cutting near it anyways.

Really, if it's small enough to use that technique, a felling bar should work dandy.

[MasterBlaster]

Or a rope. :drink:

[NeTree]

Rope even, absolutely.

[Al Smith]

The splitting wedge is narrower and taller; hence, why you'd actually want to use it in this case, as the saw isn't cutting near it anyways.

Well actually I found a steel wedge a few years ago .----Exactly where I had left it ,in the middle of a red oak round .:( Little hard on the chain .

[NeTree]

Duh!

[Al Smith]

Oh it wasn't that bad ,I ground back what was left of it and made a race chain .Ditto on the Duh though .

[NeTree]

Al, did Carl tell you how to do that?

[Jonseredbred]

No, he designed the wedge.

[CurSedVoyce]

Is that who designed those... WOW...:lol::lol:

[Al Smith]

Ha, no I did it all by my lonesome ,can't blame anybody but myself .

Now by golly I did make some wedges though .Cut them out of nylon 66 one night at work on a horizontal bandsaw .

Maybe I could send one to Ek to drop those killer palms .:lol:

[Newfie]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[CurSedVoyce]

Oh... I thought we were talking about the old wooden ones... LMAO
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Al Smith]

Those wooden ones go back to the days of iron men and 8 foot whip saws .Days B A --before Al .

[pantheraba]

:D

[Al Smith]

Well ,my departed pappy told of using oak wedges during the 30's .

They whip sawed the trees and split the whole thing .They started the cracks with steel wedges then pounded in oak and split them into smaller chunks to feed through a buzz saw powered by a John -Deere A .

A lot of work I'm sure but it keep them from freezing to death by the firewood they got .

[Dave Shepard]

Fence rails, and even framing lumber, "scantlings", were split using a steel wedge, and gluts. A glut is just a hardwood wedge. I have one that has a handforged metal covering. The ring is missing on the end. If I can find it, I'll post a pic.

[CurSedVoyce]

Think I still have one like that Gary out in the shed that aint took a hit yet... See if I can find it. :)

[woodworkingboy]

I've made big wood wedges using my bandsaw, given them out as presents. Normally I use a hard elm, very resisting to splitting. Judging by the butt ends being rounded over in my friends' tool kits, they do get used.

[CurSedVoyce]

Remember how they used to split boulders in a quarry with wooden pegs and wedges soaked in water???
I often wonder if I set some wedges in a tree and soaked them with water, could it actually push the tree (wedge it) over? Hmmmm.. OK so I have wayyyyy too much time on my hands whilst drinking beer...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[woodworkingboy]

With regard to trees, I think that you have sponge and wood mixed up there, son. It might work if the tree was teetering to go over anyway, but how would you know that a little sparrow didn't land somewhere above? :)

[CurSedVoyce]

That sir Jay is my dilemma. I would have to keep the wedge wet and stay awake diligently with a close eye to observe the tree fall with no more help than the expanding wet wedgie :D

[woodworkingboy]

It seems like an experiment best done indoors. Perhaps one of the big arboretums will allow you to try? Just set a drip on the wedge with video cameras in place, and crash out someplace else.

[CurSedVoyce]

Maybe the back yard and I can set up the drip with a drip system to a wedge in the tree with time lapse stationed on tripod to save space on the memory card.:/:
I got 12 acres of trees.. why not !:D

[woodworkingboy]

Time lapse won't be good enough, if you're hoping that you'll be in the running for the nobel prize for science/logging. Better put up some signs for the video too, "Institute for Wedge Research". Definitely drop Burnham's name when they come out to see the project.

[CurSedVoyce]

Well I would also have to add Jerry to the study. And this could come in handy as the three of us could take shifts on the tripod and camera. Plus we could take this into the real woods and not need the auto drip system by thus employing more bodies into the actual study. However; You also should be included into the study Jay. You probably know more about the porous nature of certain wood to add to what wedge of wood would best suite the purpose of our study. Let alone the dynamics of more than one wood to try on the wood at hand to see if we may fell it though expansion.
OK we have seriously derailed this thread! SORRY!
And it did sound a bit risque talking about wood like that:lol::lol:

[Bermy]

'Scuse me, I want a cut cuz you started your award winning research project discussion on my thread....:D

[Graeme McMahon]

The picture at the start of the thread was originally called a "bullet cut" over here. It was only used to fall small diameter trees where the "quarter cut" would have your wedge against the uncut hinge before any effective lift. Its practical use is minimal but when required, effective.

It is not devised to lift over a heavy back leaner or large diameter trees. The incorrect application to larger trees has been created by some arborist training persons.

Some of the skinny poles requiring this method can be over 100' tall. The idea of the bullet cut is to "back up" your judgment for an easy fall not lift up a back leaner. If it looked like hard work I would get the dozer or excavator to come up and "scrub" the bush for me. In the urban work, I would put a rope on it.

It is limited by the thickness of the wedge entering the hinge zone. If that thickness exceeds the thickness of the saw cut, it no longer is lifting the back of the tree but rather the entire tree.

Graeme

[Gord]

Interesting Graeme. Wouldn't using a quarter cut method with a wedge placed sideways be more effective usually?

[wll]

its one ov them someOdaTime cuts, someOdaTime it works and someOdaTime it dont

[wll]

i do like the notch i just never saw one like that. looks to me like it was cut ninja style almost like check this cut out.after many looks at the stump i just dont think a jack was used. one thing im sure of the cutter has more cutting time than any amature and shure looks like he knew what he was doing. i still think this cut has no place in tree care and i would just put a rope in it and avoid all the extra b.s.

[Graeme McMahon]

In this case, a wedge from the side in a quarter cut generaly won't travel as far as from the back. The additional problem created is that the wedge will "want" to correct itself to be aiming at the centre of the log.

By boring through from the back of the tree, the wedge can be placed and loaded before placing the scarf. In the hardwood trees much advantage can be lost when placing the scarf in some of the skinny poles.

Graeme

[Tree Reb]

I don't know what videos this guy watched but end result looks the same.:?

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[MasterBlaster]

Good lord.

[stehansen]

Burnham's signature comes to mind.

"Confidence is the feeling you sometimes have before you fully understand the situation."

[Husky D]

Good lord.

I hope he has someone looking over him from on high as he ain't gonna last long doing dumb s**t like that!:\:

[sotc]

My first thought was " is that stig? :lol: Then he started cutting up higher:dur: Ummmmm, definatly not stig:D

[squisher]

Oh man, that's totally bizarro.:lol:

[MasterBlaster]

At least he had some good fashion sense. :drink:

[CurSedVoyce]

That is a serious WTF:what:

[squisher]

At least he had some good fashion sense. :drink:

No doubt!!:lol:

[C. Kirk]

What on gods green earth would make you do that in the last vid. That had to take all day and still you'd have to block it up with that saw. That would have taken a mouth to make in to fire wood.
I would have rented a bigger saw & wore a different swatter.

[squisher]

Dude, you are going to get it from the spelling/grammar police.:D

[MasterBlaster]

http://boards.cannabis.com/images/smilies/custom3/admin1.gif

[C. Kirk]

I think i fix most of the spelling and grammar.

[Skwerl]

You're getting better, Travis. :thumbup: