Cabling the Cracking Maple

[treelooker]

first pic is a crack that opened just this summer.
The smaller trunk is failing. Attached is a picture with red lines where the trunk could be cut back to (all cuts to lateral branches, and leaving enough foliage to keep the stem alive) and an orange line where a cable could be installed.

Comments?

[MasterBlaster]

Given the location and potential for targets, I would remove and replace the tree.

[RIVERRAT]

Me to

[Drella]

Yikes!

You're fisting a Maple!

[Bodean]

I'd retain and mitigate.

[Mr. Sir]

The reduction seems a bit drastic, of course it's hard to tell from one pic. Otherwise, seems like a good plan. What type of cable?

[BostonBull]

Cable and reduce. Add some compost, and some mulch to help the tree cope and stay healthy.

I would use a 1/2" EHS cable so that if the lead ever let loose it would stay contained.......hopefully.

[treelooker]

Cable and reduce. Add some compost, and some mulch to help the tree cope and stay healthy.

I would use a 1/2" EHS cable so that if the lead ever let loose it would stay contained.......hopefully.I'm witchoo and Bo. :D definitely, the cable holds 7 tons.

mb do you think there will be more than 7 tons of force after that stem is cut back? why so negative bro?

the big stem will have sprawling limbs reduced, 10-20%

[MasterBlaster]

Negative? Moi? I just think with that defect it's time to put that tree to sleep and let another take it's place.

What, was everyone supposed to agree witch ewe?

[JonnyHart]

I would try to put the cable higher up than the orange line.

[No_Bivy]

maybe two cables....steel low, cobra up high

[Blinky]

maybe two cables....steel low, cobra up high

That's a wicked idea.

[sotc]

bolts help? cable and reduce, id go light on the other side. i think

[Awsomeclimber]

I really dont know much about it....But...

I just show photos (from here mostly) of serious damage, (due to the splits failing..

I make a point of telling folks " a Cable (or bolts) WONT stop the tree from failing..

It will re direct the fall" ."where WOULD you like it to fall?"

As far as the 7 tons goes.. I can turn 500kg (half a ton) into 8 tons after falling 8 meters

Ill see if i can put you up a "force generation" table ??

Id be more worried over "litergation" than saving the tree, once i interfer with a split tree, i am admitting liabillity?

"why did you fill it full of bolts and cables" is there something wrong with the tree?

[sotc]

ive got a tree in my front yard that would have been history with out a bolt, couple cables, and weight reduction. 6 years later and its still here, have to come down sooner or later but im comfortable for now

[Awsomeclimber]

Oops, wrong table

[BostonBull]

Understand rigging/load shocking forces. If the stem is cabled with a cable that will hold 14K, how will it ever reach that failure point? It MAY scissor back and forth and break at the crotch, but I think the cable will hold it. The only way to shock load this lead is to have a gust of wind come so strong it would lift UP and then "drop" the lead into the cable. Even then I don't think it would snap. That lead looks like 1500lbs, maybe. Especially after pruning it.

Its disheartening to think we live in a society that has to be scared of a lawsuit instead of being happy they saved a tree.

Each their own I guess.

[treelooker]

Its disheartening to think we live in a society that has to be scared of a lawsuit instead of being happy they saved a tree.Amen, brother. Even some of the "greenest" cities in the US refuse to cable because of thi delusional fear of liability.

We are open to liability when we prune a tree or even walk next door to one. Deal with it--you can run from liability but you cannot hide.

"I make a point of telling folks " a Cable (or bolts) WONT stop the tree from failing..It will re direct the fall"

Why do you say that? I'm no physics major but i do not understand this statement (which is commonly said).

BB is right.

[Awsomeclimber]

Amen, brother. Even some of the "greenest" cities in the US refuse to cable because of thi delusional fear of liability.

We are open to liability when we prune a tree or even walk next door to one. Deal with it--you can run from liability but you cannot hide.

"I make a point of telling folks " a Cable (or bolts) WONT stop the tree from failing..It will re direct the fall"

Why do you say that? I'm no physics major but i do not understand this statement (which is commonly said).

BB is right.

I think i learnt that here? or at AS over the years..

I makes sence in that "what grows up must come down", tree are destended to fail..

Secondly around here they are mostly very old co doms with either grown in rope or chains allready holding them together. the rest are slowly falling apart and that keeps me busy..

Worse still, i tend to remove the standing half of a failed tree.. (does anyone else?)

always willing to learn more..

[inztrees]

Cable up hi thinn where you marked and 2 rods at the crotch powww done

[BostonBull]

Worse still, i tend to remove the standing half of a failed tree.. (does anyone else?)

always willing to learn more..

Depends on species, and size and degree of split/failure.

[treelooker]

Depends on species, and size and degree of split/failure.True. In this case, and most, leaving one trunk uncabled is higher risk than leaving both cabled.

"Cable up hi thinn where you marked and 2 rods at the crotch powww done"

this is a common suggestion, and has merit. I will have long rods with me 8) when i go there (it's 4 hours away and i have not seen the tree) and may do just that.

" a Cable (or bolts) WONT stop the tree from failing..It will re direct the fall"

The support won't stop the tree from failing from some other cause , but if i was not high % confident it would stop the defect from failing then i would not bother cabling.

steel low dynamic high may be good in some trees, but since a lot has to come of the small trunk it does not fit this tree.

[sotc]

well if you havent even seen the tree in person it may not even be an option. the angles may be waaay off for a support system to be effective

[arborworks1]

Assuming no decay inside the cracked area. Then Cable it and reduce both sides over the course of several years.

[Old Monkey]

I was asked to look at a slightly smaller sweetgum in a similar predicament last week. I offered to do what you are suggesting but also told her that given the species the chances of success would not be great. Your tree looks like a great tree but the location buggers me. If the owner is younger than forty and has no plans to move, remove and replace. If the owner is older or might move in the next few years, I'd follow your plan.

edit: What does the other side look like? You say that crack just opened up this summer? I am not certain I'd want to climb that without bracing it somehow.

[NeTree]

Give it a basal pruning and replant.

[MasterBlaster]

Hear hear! :drink:

[treelooker]

Hear hear! :drink:I don't hear a reason to Give it a basal pruning and replant. The expense would be high.

Darin we have a lot of sweetgum here, but I don't see how they're harder to cable than maple...?

"Assuming no decay inside the cracked area. Then Cable it and reduce both sides over the course of several years."

Both sides need to be reduced immediately because they are failing. There is bound to be some decay in the cracked area--what then?

"well if you havent even seen the tree in person it may not even be an option. the angles may be waaay off for a support system to be effective"

The picture shows enough of the trunk angles to see that cabling is an option. If they are spitting apart they are in approximately the same line. But if it doesn't look feasible when i get there, I'll go do something else. Can't fix em all.

[arborworks1]

I agree they need to be reduced now. But then you can thin it out somemore over the next 3 years and it might turn out good all around.

Of course there is that always gut feeling to get the big saws out.

[MasterBlaster]

I do believe this tree has cast a spell over Guy.

[No_Bivy]

he specializes in cracked trees

[NeTree]

he specializes in cracked trees

Would that make him a crack-addict?

:D

[DMc]

I agree they need to be reduced now. But then you can thin it out somemore over the next 3 years and it might turn out good all around.

Of course there is that always gut feeling to get the big saws out.

In cabling situations like this, if it is determined to go with that option, it is important to maintain a moderate density of the crown so that both cabled trunks will move more in unison under wind load. This will be accomplished with reduction, care being given to not remove those annoying interior limbs.

Dave

[treelooker]

"I do believe this tree has cast a spell over Guy."

I do believe that the intoxicating smell of 2-cycle in the morning and sawdust lust have inflamed the passions of mb and ne. :P

Dave and aw i promise the tree will not be gutted or thinned now.

[arborworks1]

Guy I think you should trust your own judgement, Yoo sir Have way more experience than I and most others here. I just pipe up when asked.

[treesandsurf]

No need to doubt your self arborworks... just because one person says one thing, doesn't make it absolute truth.

It's often easier to defer to someone with 'more experience' than to think for ourselves.

jp:D

[Paul B]

no need to save all trees but I do recognize the attempt to save those trees that may benefit from such saving.

[treelooker]

No need to doubt your self arborworks... just because one person says one thing, doesn't make it absolute truth. And that is the absolute truth! ;)

[NeTree]

I do believe that the intoxicating smell of 2-cycle in the morning and sawdust lust have inflamed the passions of mb and ne. :P



:D Hell ya!

[Al Smith]

I suppose it's a noble thought to try and cable that thing ,bolt it togther ,what ever .

Once a maple or any tree gets rotten inside like that it's only a matter of time before it falls .It could be on somebodys noggin .

It have maple a tad smaller than that which is split open in a crotch .It's gonna get turned into firewood this fall and a white oak or hickory put in it's place .

[arborworks1]

No need to doubt your self arborworks... just because one person says one thing, doesn't make it absolute truth.

It's often easier to defer to someone with 'more experience' than to think for ourselves.

jp:D

No doubts.8)

[TC3]

The support won't stop the tree from failing from some other cause , but if i was not high % confident it would stop the defect from failing then i would not bother cabling.



Both sides need to be reduced immediately because they are failing. There is bound to be some decay in the cracked area--what then?


Ground control to Major Tom ???
Installing a cable to prevent failure is like installing a sprinkler system to protect a paper mache collection.

[treelooker]

Ground control to Major Tom ???
Installing a cable to prevent failure is like installing a sprinkler system to protect a paper mache collection.Hey Ground Control,

Plenty of oxygen up here. :D

not sure how to decipher your analogy. How will a cable increase risk?

[TC3]

How will it decrease risk is my honest question ? I've been giving the whole cabling issue a whole lotta head space in the last couple o' days.
In a perfect world, 9 out of 10 cabling jobs could've been avoided with proper tree care. Are we putting our energy & knowledge in the right place ? I don't mean to be fatalistic or negative, but I think it's very important that we're clear with ourselves & our customers as to what can be realistically achieved with cabling.

[Tom Dunlap]

Read about risk management and the chapter on cabling/bracing:

http://tinyurl.com/5vvswv

[treelooker]

it's very important that we're clear with ourselves & our customers as to what can be realistically achieved with cabling.
absolutely. read tom's chapter linked in the other thread, and spend $5. on the isa bmp's and you will know a lot more about it. :)

[sotc]

3500 feet of cable in the Wye oak?!!!

[treelooker]

3500 feet of cable in the Wye oak?!!!maybe shoulda pruned it more and cabled less?:|:

[No_Bivy]

ashes to ashes...dust to dust....
cables are temporary..

[treelooker]

cables are temporary..so is human life, per your bible quote; what's your point?

Cables can last for decades with no upkeep expense. Often the most cost-effective structural treatment possible.

:)

[Awsomeclimber]

This tree is in a school yard with a neat set of bench seats all the way around it.
Its the "lunch room".

Note the previous signs of failure. Granted it should never of come out of a nursery, let alone be planted, but now its there, do i walk past it and say nothing, go down the back and just quote on the removal they asked me in about..

Or mention the well known and obvious faults in it and suggest i wouldent like my kids sitting under it (if they went to that school) ..Not a good distance shot of it, but heres my latest can of worms!

[treelooker]

do i walk past it and say nothing, go down the back and just quote on the removal they asked me in about.Poor form, true, but why not quote on support and reduction?

sad commentary on our profession, that folks think that the only one who can solve tree problems is Basil Kutz. :X

[NeTree]

That's mighty harsh, dude. Your lack of professionalism surprises me.

Whether you like it or not, a good basal pruning is sometimes the best route.

Now in that schoolyard tree... I'd advocate a good cabling and reduction plan, and I bet that tree will do just fine.

[treelooker]

I was talking about the school people who called him for a removal quote instead of repair.


Whether you like it or not, a good basal pruning is sometimes the best route..Sure, I see those every day.
.:X

[NeTree]

Exactly... you like to act in the best interest of the tree, sure... but we ultimately work for people, too. And in this case... you know as well as I do that if little Jenny gets her head cracked by a tree that was "questionable", little Jenny's parents are going to sue the shit out of the school. So of course they called for a removal.

You must have perspective, as well. After all, just like your tree at the start of the thread, we're not talking about a four hundred year old historic tree or a virgin timber forest here.

[treelooker]

if little Jenny gets her head cracked by a tree that was "questionable", little Jenny's parents are going to sue the shit out of the school. So of course they called for a removal. And of course they would be open to other mitigation if it was presented the right way.

Tree looks high value due to size and location. They don't have to be unique specimens to be worth a little tree care, and risk tolerance. It will be low risk after treatment. I've cared for a lot of schoolyard trees--principals know all about trees' contributions to the academic environment--they are NOT going to hire Basil Kutz if an arborist shows up instead.

[Awsomeclimber]

Thanks for the advice lads, I see its a can of worms here to??

Just a quick heads up.. they dident get me into look at this tree at all, they have some down the back of the place that had to go..

Im the one that points it out to her, i know they have a tight budget so i offer to bolt it in 3 places, then address a few other issues, "while we are here working"..

I dident put that part in the quote, they got some weekend hack into remove the trees down the back, they put ropes on them and droped them WHOLE smashing a heap of other trees, including the ones i wanted to "nip & tuc" alought i dident get the job, she insists i come in and do as i said i would, reduce some weight and bolt it.

It was a lot eaiser at the school MY kids go to.. I got them to build a massive cage for it and now no one sits under it, but still have the massive gum planted there over 100 years ago, win win win there but a PITA on the school here.

[NeTree]

Yeah Derek, I got that that wasn't the tree you were called for.

TL just can't get the fact that sometimes removal is the better option; and being willing to admit that, and go ahead with the basal cut, makes a much better arborist.

Nice to see they're willing to keep the tree. No doubt it "makes" the schoolyard.

[Awsomeclimber]

They dident realize anything was/is wrong with it and think its the best thing in the place.

I dont think she liked it when i pointed out "no one has ever looked at trees here before"

[Al Smith]

Say folks we are compairing onions to sardines here .

The first tree was a soft maple ,cracked in the crotch and rotten inside .The second tree shows signs of splitting but hasn't blown it's guts yet but will in time if something isn't done to prevent it .

[TC3]

Sometimes it takes an extreme point of view to get people to look at the middle ground. I think that Guy offers his perspective out of passion for his beliefs, but also to compel us to reconsider our stance on certain issues. I'm all for it.
My posts were voicing a certain frustration I feel at society's need for a 'quick fix' to tree problems, and it seems like cabling is one of the ways we placate them. Plant (plug in) a poor specimen in the wrong spot (don't forget to strap it to the ground so it doesn't blow over) and ignore it for 20 years, then ask me to wave a magic wand over it ? There's better ways to spend our time & energy then to analyze whether ansi standards will hold up in court or offering too-little-too-late for trees that have been ignored.

[Al Smith]

Just a fact of life with a maple tree .If the things are grown in an urban environment with no competiton for sunlight they spread out like a hens ass .

A big old fat canopy puts a tremendous stain on the crotch .Nearly every maple will crotch out in it's growth at some point .The soft ones are the worst .

They planted these things about the 1900's or so in many cities to provide fast growing shade trees . Here it is about 100 years later and they are providing employment for tree trimmers . They do hard prunes on the things but ultimently most are removed because they in fact become a hazard to life and property . A dangerous tree is nothing but a large weed .

[treelooker]

"TL just can't get the fact that sometimes removal is the better option"

Not so; I condemn and remove trees all the time; after some assessment instead of automatically. If exaggerating my approach is the only way to justify yours, that doesn't say much for yours.

"There's better ways to spend our time & energy then offering too-little-too-late for trees that have been ignored.

Cabling cracked trees may not be as good as lifelong proactive mtc, but it is not too little nor too late for this one, if the owner says so. Removal is a waste of time and energy and the client's money if arboriculture will work for them.

[NeTree]

TC, no sweat... and we wouldn't have him any other way.

[treelooker]

Extremism in the defense of arboriculture is no vice.

Thanks Barry G. :D

[Al Smith]

Oh I'm not saying that on some trees you can save with a cable or a bolt .Fact Is I bolted one of my dads favorite apple trees together with a 24 "DA bolt and pine tarred the crack in the crotch .It held about 10 years before it fell victum to an ice storm .But that tree was in an orchard ,not likely to bonk somebody in the noggin or crash on top of a '65 Mustang .

[Mike Maas]

Oh I'm not saying that on some trees you can save with a cable or a bolt .Fact Is I bolted one of my dads favorite apple trees together with a 24 "DA bolt and pine tarred the crack in the crotch .It held about 10 years before it fell victum to an ice storm .But that tree was in an orchard ,not likely to bonk somebody in the noggin or crash on top of a '65 Mustang .

If the two halves are supported to each other, how can one half fail? The cable of attachment would need to fail, or both halves would need to come down together.
Are you suggesting that Guy is incompetent? That he uses substandard cables? LOL!
I do wonder why he drew the cable location so low, maybe he forgot about the 2/3s rule, but there doesn't look like anything in his picture that would make this an unusual or undoable cable job.

Lastly, any tree could fail, even one without an obvious flaw. Cabled properly, it should be no more "likely" to bonk anyone or any car than any other tree growing over a road.

[Skwerl]

Welcome back, Mike. Good to see you around. :thumbup:

[Mike Maas]

Thanks Skwerl, I've been around, just spending a bit less time online. The chance to question Guy's expertise inspired me to post. :lol:

[No_Bivy]

:lol:

[NeTree]

Good to read ya, Mike. Glad you popped in. =)

[treelooker]

The chance to question Guy's expertise inspired me to post. :lol:Yeah that always did motivate you...pink boards! :evil:

2/3 "rule" was bent to get it in under the fork. I expect to put it in saturday, if it looks as doable as the pic shows, and i fit it in the neighborhood's budget..:roll:

[NeTree]

2/3 "rule" was bent to get it in under the fork.

It's neither unusual nor bad practice to sacrifice some height in the cable placement to gain better structural support for it. :)

[treelooker]

It's neither unusual nor bad practice to sacrifice some height in the cable placement to gain better structural support for it. :)Well Allrighty then!

:big-jump:

[treesandsurf]

So you've got a tree that has a widening crack at the base and it's been over a week, what's up looker? :lol: When is this shite going down? let's see some pics and get this thing safely cabled down 8)

jp:D

[treelooker]

i'll see it saturday (if it does not fall over before that)

[Al Smith]

Hold the phone now .You guys are talking about a maple tree here .A rotten one to boot . How in the world can you save a rotten maple pray tell ? I think the only thing that rots faster than maple is hickory once it gets exposed to the weather .

Most of the removals done in this neck of the woods are on hollow rotten maples ,crack or no crack .

I dunno maybe with about 20 pounds of super glue, a mile of cable and a fiberglass patch or something .

[treelooker]

Hold the phone now .You guys are talking about a maple tree here .A rotten one to boot . .How do you know it's rotten?

[Al Smith]

Well ,unless I'm confused on the pictures it appears that when he stuck his hand in the crack he pulled out rot .Unless I'm getting the pics confused .

[NeTree]

Well ,unless I'm confused on the pictures it appears that when he stuck his hand in the crack he pulled out rot .Unless I'm getting the pics confused .

ROFLMFAO! :lol::P:lol::D:|:;):O

[treelooker]

Cracked Sweetgum Report 080913

ASSIGNMENT
September 13 2008 Mark of the Association asked me to assess the condition of a tree at Road in , and describe reasonable management options. Per the request of the city arborist, I was assigned to determine whether a support system could comply with the American National Standards Institute (ANSI)’s standards on support systems, so I refer to ANSI A300 (Part 3) 2006. I am not certain whether my client is the City of , the Association, both, or neither. I agreed to inspect the tree as soon as possible given the emergency conditions.
OBSERVATIONS AND DISCUSSION
The tree forks out a foot above the ground. The smaller fork has a moderate lean over the road and powerlines. Lower branches have been shortened to avoid the powerlines, but higher branches extend over them and over the property across the street. The larger trunk has a slight lean toward the residence. The fruit is in its green stage, with more water and more weight.

A crack between the trunks has opened this summer and is now 1-2” wide. There is no visible decay inside the crack at present, but the wood is highly likely to decay in the future. There is a small amount of decay in a ground-level wound facing the street. The trunk shows no defects, and the wounds from pruning branches appear to be sealing well. There is one fork above the yard with included bark. Many branches on both trunks have heavy ends. The top of the tree has less leaves.

Both trunks form major scaffold limbs about thirty feet up. I climbed the tree to complete my inspection, and in light of the considerable hazard I tied the trunks together with rope to prevent further failure and damage. I read the relevant portions of both the ANSI standards and the Best Management Practices (BMP’s) published by the International Society of Arboriculture. I saw the last 5 panels of the Taylor’s sidewalk lifted, and the grass near the tree is brown, indicating aggressive root expansion and water uptake. The asphalt pavement on Road has small cracks, allowing infiltration of water and nutrients and gas exchange.

MANAGEMENT OPTIONS
1. A 3/8” Extra High Strength (EHS) cable properly installed below the scaffold forks would comply with ANSI standards. Rated at 13,600 pounds, it can support the defect and work to prevent further opening of the wound.
2. The branches can be shortened, reducing strain on the defect and perhaps allowing the trunks to be pulled closer together when the cable is installed. If sufficient pruning is done every 5 years, and decay does not spread rapidly, the cable may be strong enough on its own.
3. The trunks can also be bolted (braced) together, but ANSI standards do not require this treatment. The ISA BMP’s state that brace rods are used to stabilize forks that have cracked. Propping and guying are support methods that do not seem to fit this tree.
4. Removing the five sidewalk panels and adding 4-6” of loose soil and sand before possibly relaying them would provide more rooting area for the tree. So would mulching an area extending in an arc around the tree, where the grass is brown and woody roots protrude above the surface. Chopping the leaves that drop this autumn and spreading the chips from the pruning work about 4” deep would more closely approximate the nutrient recycling and root protection in the tree’s natural growing conditions. The rooting area beneath the gravel driveway could be aerated and fertilized, according to its needs. Testing the soil, adjusting the acidity, and adding prescribed nutrients might also improve the tree’s ability to strengthen itself, over time.

The work should be done by a Certified Arborist experienced with the treatments specified, especially pruning over power lines and designing and installing support systems.
This concludes my report. I can clarify any portions of it upon request.

Sincerely Yours,

BCMA

[Al Smith]

Well ,that's nice but what does that have to do with a rotten maple with a big crack in it .:?

[NeTree]

I think he's trying to say that a thorough examination and report should be done before condemning a tree.

[treelooker]

I think he's trying to say that a thorough examination and report should be done before condemning a tree.
:)

Al, dude, re "rotten", it SEZ, "There is no visible decay inside the crack at present, but the wood is highly likely to decay in the future."

Decay is expected, but managed by cleaning out the crack and closing it (thanks I added that), and by invigorating the roots. The steel could buy a lot of years, with the tree monitored/decay measured annually.

[Al Smith]

:)

Al, dude, re "rotten", it SEZ, "There is no visible decay inside the crack at present, but the wood is highly likely to decay in the future."
Treelooker,dude ,the subject was not a gum tree.I thought the whole kit and caboodle was over a cracked maple and by the picture it certainly looks rotten to me . That gum tree thing was nothing but a side bar .

[treelooker]

That gum tree thing was nothing but a side bar .Yup, I misnamed it from the pic based on the client's ID. :|:

[NickfromWI]

I'd retain and mitigate.

Me too.

[Mike Maas]

Treelooker,dude ,the subject was not a gum tree.I thought the whole kit and caboodle was over a cracked maple and by the picture it certainly looks rotten to me . That gum tree thing was nothing but a side bar .

Perhaps if it were put into a context you more readily understand...
Say you have a truck with rust. I've seen a truck so rusty, it broke in half. It could have happened when it was going 65 MPH. I've also been nearly missed by an old bucket truck which had its brake line brake open and it was parked uphill from me.
Now, does this mean every truck with an amount of rust should be junked?
It comes down to reducing the risk through mitigation, and monitoring the tree through time, just like an old truck. You replace the brake lines, inspect the rest of the system, and drive the old truck, if that's what you want.
The same with a tree. If work can be done that re-enforces the tree to an acceptable level of risk, why not do it?
It doesn't mean the tree will stand strong forever, any more than fixing brakes on a truck will mean they will never need work again, or that the truck may someday need to be junked.

It may just be a matter of perception. In urban areas where trees are considered a valuable asset, it may be different than out on the farm, where trees are growing like mad all over the place, and losing one isn't a big deal, it's firewood! LOL!

[Al Smith]

Oh I'm not saying there isn't some merit in prolonging the useful life of a tree . In highly urbanized areas it's a much bigger deal than here in the cornfield .

Fact is I've done a little of this stuff myself .It's just I've seen many many maples fail in short order once they split and spill their guts .---but it's not my tree nor my call .

[TC3]

And besides that, Guy's hand in pic #1 reminds me of Maxim's "Unintentional Porn" shots.

[Al Smith]

And besides that, Guy's hand in pic #1 reminds me of Maxim's "Unintentional Porn" shots. Now just where is your mind at young lady .:P However if you let your mind wander a tad bit I do tend to agree with you .;)

[NeTree]

Dang, Mike. You need to come by more often... good to see you.

[treelooker]

And besides that, Guy's hand in pic #1 reminds me of Maxim's "Unintentional Porn" shots.For the record, that ain't my hand--I had not even seen the tree at that point.

I don't do that kind of stuff, at least until the second date...:P

[NeTree]

LMAO

[Al Smith]

For the record, that ain't my hand--I had not even seen the tree at that point.

Why then did you do a report or submit same[copy /paste ] about a gum tree of all things ? This thing is stranger than fiction :?

By all means bolt that thing together ,cable ,fiberglass ,pine tar whatever it takes . Don't however be parking that prized model A of uncle Charleys under it .:D

[treelooker]

City guy is diddling; dept. head is reviewing the report now.

I wrote the report right after climbing the tree, but i started the thread based on pics.

Hey Al don't you Ohioans like sweetgums?

[Al Smith]

Hey Al don't you Ohioans like sweetgums? I wouldn't know a gum tree if I saw one . Nary a one in these parts that I know of .

[TC3]

There's plenty of them here. I like the columnar variety; a nice new twist. Most of the larger gums in the city are gone. People have a low tolerance for the fruit... dries hard & izza bummer to step on.
Betcha you've got them around & just didn't notice... maybe ?
Liquidambar styraciflua

[Al Smith]

You are probabley right T . I'm more of a woodsman and really don't know chit from shinola on what's planted in urban landscaping .It could be any number of varities not native to these parts . For all I know I could have stumbled into a Douglas fir a time or two but wouldn't know it from a pine tree .

Stuff like tulip poplar ,redbud etc are just transplants to this area as I suppose perhaps a gum tree is . Actually the soft or silver and red maples are transplants because the native species is sugar maple .Ontario doesn't have them all .;)

[TC3]

Doug fir is one of the easier to I.D, Al. Thick needles that smell like lemony-orange, and don't pick like Spruce. They don't get very tall here.
Not to be a treebitch, but I'm pretty sure that Redbud is a native tree.
It'd be fun to get together & exchange info, but the internet will have to suffice. I learn a ton o' stuff from you here !

[Al Smith]

Redbud could be but I've never seen it other than a yard tree ."Native " could change within twenty or so miles .

For example big tooth aspen,which is native is not found here until you go about 20 miles westward .

Pines or firs of any variety are not native until you get to about the Pa side of the state . Once you cross the river in Mansfield Ohio the terrain changes drastically as do the resident trees . You go from the flat lands to hills about like West Va. in about 8-10 miles .

Interesting enough because the white pine which the "Stihl timbersports " uses is all grown in Ohio .