Kickback 066

[Al Smith]

I just hate when this happens but I have to report another accident .

Tom ,the tree guy that I help with his equipment got in a wrestling match with the hottest running 066 I've ever seen and lost .

He was cutting the wedge on a giant oak tree and either caught the tip or dropped the wedge on the chain .It threw him and the saw backwards out of the cut .The saw came over and as a natural reaction he threw up his left hand to fend it off .

It got him pretty bad . They think they can save all his fingers but he's going to be off the job for a while .I imagine though as owner of the company he most likely will be supervising after he heals a bit .

So ,just a heads up folks ,be carefull .Those dog got some nasty teeth .

[Rotax Robert]

Man, I hate to hear about that stuff and Hope he heals good. I assume he was one handing the saw ??? fill us in if you don't mind.

[woodworkingboy]

Bummer Al, hope your buddy heals quick. Can't be too careful. The 088 threw me on my butt once, no injury fortunately. I plant my feet good after that experience.

[gf beranek]

Oh, I hate to hear about things like that. Is he a young fellow?

[MasterBlaster]

:(

[Magnus]

Never fun to hear things like this.
Pinched?

It is easyer than most think to get kick's. There is no real fool proof way to prevent it other than not cut!

It can happen to anyone, anytime!

Play safe!

[Banned by Squirrels]

Ouch!

Bad news...

[squisher]

Damn! A 66 packs quite a wallup. Hope your friend heals fully and quickly Al.

[sotc]

bummer, hope it ends well

[Billy_Bob]

I like to learn as much as I can about these things so this will not happen to me...

Do you know or can you find out what kind of face cut he was making? (Conventional, Humbolt, Open face?)

And did he make the top cut first, then the bottom cut?

That oak is heavy! I can imagine making the bottom cut last and that heavy wedge falling on the bar, then the wedge deciding to stay put.

I do this sometimes and the piece of wood will go rolling forward when it hits the chain, but this is with lighter wood. Perhaps I should be doing the top cut last? Suggestions?

[Paul B]

best thoughts to a speedy recovery for Tom!

[GASoline71]

I got knocked on my ass by an 076 way back when... Got lucky... no cuts... just a bruised ego and some scratches. Those big displacement saws are no joke...

Sorry about yer buddy Al...

Gary

[Magnus]

I've been tossed, pulled, kicked, seen saws travel 20 meter in a blink of a eye, but alway's been lucky!
Once a big saw is in motion, there is no stopping it. Best is to not be in the way.

Saty rule #3: Alway's make top cut first in a direction cut....
Bottom cut first in Hombolt...

[Al Smith]

The facts as I know them .First he going to be okay ,no skin grafts ,no bone loss . Two hours in surgery to sew him back together last night .

The tree was a giant of an oak an old wolf tree left over from the 1800's that grew in the open for the last 150-175 years .In the ritzy end of town ,it became a hazard . I haven't seen it yet but Tom's crew said it was right at 7 feet across . These old oaks grown without competition get about 80 feet and spread out like a live oak.Huge canopy and huger trunk to hold it all up . There are still a few of them left but they are rare .

Tom talked about when he was here last week .I suggested he use my 125 Mac with a 48" or his 084 with a 42" .Evidently he thought he could get it with the 66 and a 36" bar .

According to his crew ,he made his notch and was cutting the center out of the bottom when this all took place . I speculate he might have cut loose the top of the wedge and the bottom fell on the outside of the bar and caused the problem .That size of a wedge would likely weigh 200 pounds .

I'll get a picture of the stump and talk to Tom when I get a chance .

[sawinredneck]

I am VERY understanding and sympathetic Al!!!!! (they don't call me 9 1/4 for nothing:lol:)

That sounds VERY bad to me!!! I hope all goes well for him! That micros surgery isn't any fun, and there is no way in hell to do ANYTHING without bumpng them!

[Magnus]

Could be crap in the tree too...

That is Not unusual...

[Jamin Mayer]

Dang! I can't imagine an accident like that. I hope he can work again soon.

I have noticed if the dept gauges on a chain are too low it is choppy and likely to get a kick back. Too low of dept gauges and a really sharp chain seem to be a bad combination. Those added up with a huge notch can be understanding for a accident. I haven't been thrown or have I experienced a major kick back. And by the sound of this, I don't want to either.

But, it is good to be reminded of this stuff. Because after a while of safe practices and no incidents, I believe our guards can come down (so to speak) and WHAM! --Some one can get hurt bad.

[hugashe]

sorry to hear that AL. best wishes

[Tucker943]

I wish him the best. reminds me to keep my guard up with a saw. I have a buddy that run a saw up his neck and face back in the 80's. Looks like he has tiger stripes running up and down his face and throat. Almost died

[Al Smith]

Another thing I forgot to mention .Tom runs Stihl branded semi chisel with the anti kickback links .

Basically because they chew up chains on nails ,rocks etc and also because he buys locally from the dealer .

I ran that same saw that ate him up about 3 weeks ago .Just a typical 066 but with super amount of power .This leads me to believe he caught the top edge of the chain on the wedge .

[Skwerl]

I'm typically extra wary of folks who have done tree work for decades but still use the 'safety' chain. In my experience those people usually don't have an extensive understanding of how chain cuts, nor are they very good at sharpening their own chains. And if they haven't learned that much about chain after using it for 10-20 years then they aren't likely to change any time soon.

Yeah, beat me up for saying this, but it's true in my experience. I'm less comfortable working around a sawyer using safety chain than working around a sawyer who files his own full chisel, non-safety chain. The guys running safety chain seem much more likely to have an accident.

[MasterBlaster]

Safety chain sucks!

[Billy_Bob]

Another thing I forgot to mention .Tom runs Stihl branded semi chisel with the anti kickback links ..

I wouldn't think the safety chain would have any more safety than a regular chain if the chain on the top of the bar is suddenly pinched and you get a push back situation???

[CurSedVoyce]

Hope he heals up well... Been pushed down once or twice.. Or pushed back anyway on some big lumber... Just pays to expect it to happen and prepare and brace ya self.. these big saws will kill ya.
Stay safe ....

[NeTree]

Best wishes... sucks being out of work with an injury.

[Stumper]

Best wishes for Tom.

[Jamin Mayer]

RSLFK is the way to geaux! RSF is the next step down, but still rocks! 8)

[RIVERRAT]

Not meaning to beat on you in the least bit Brian. Safety chain does suck.

But Al did state Tom bought it because it was what was available from the shop.
Based on the description, there are many ways this accident could have happened.

Al, you have made mention of Tom many times here. Hope your friend heals quickly. I cringe at the thought of this.

[Al Smith]

The only reason I mentioned that safety chain is just to show it's not foolproof for preventing kickbacks .

He's got other stuff .In fact his 084 runs skip chisel Oregon because I got the last two loops for him when I placed an order at Bailey's .

I don't think that Stihl dealer he does business with sells anything in that line that is not safety chain . The one I deal with sells anything you want .

[woodworkingboy]

Somewhat along the lines of Brian's post.....I see a lot of saws where the person operating the tool doesn't know that they have safety chain on it. In other words, the owner doesn't know anything about chain, or basically, the saw either. One is dumb, and adding the other makes stupid, imo, much increasing the hazards. Not a fan of safety chain myself, I'd run bear claws if I thought it would cut faster.

[Billy_Bob]

I have one saw with a safety bar and safety chain. This is for helpers who are less experienced. I also sometimes use this saw for a bit of added safety if it is a nasty situation of tangled limbs.

[MasterBlaster]

What is a safety bar?

[Billy_Bob]

What is a safety bar?

Well I am no expert on this, but bars and chains are color coded "green" or "yellow". The green means they are safety. Yellow means non-safety.

So far as I understand it, the safety bars have a smaller tip. So less area at the tip to accidentially get caught on something and then kickback (top 1/4 of tip).

But see for yourself. Here are various Stihl bars - some with green dots and others with yellow dots...
http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/guidebars.html

[Al Smith]

I stopped and saw the old boy .He seems in good spirits considering everything . Fact is he was out ram rodding his crew today,looking at jobs and turning in bids so he's not that bad .

It happened exactly as I thought . He recut the bottom of the wedge and 200 pounds of oak caught the top of the chain as it broke out . Should have driven a wedge but hindsight is always 20/20 on these things ,accidents happen .

I might note that falling something this big is not standard run of the mill tree work in these parts . Generally it's 2 and 3 feet stuff ,rarely a 4 footer .

[Jonseredbred]

So far as I understand it, the safety bars have a smaller tip. So less area at the tip to accidentially get caught on something and then kickback (top 1/4 of tip).



A/K/A Bananna Bar

[Reddog]

Al,
Glad to hear he is on the mend.