200T no one can fix local

[CurSedVoyce]

Well ya'll, I have a 200t that supposably tested good compression and has had a carb rebuild etc.
Ran then puttered out. No power and cant cut and stalls over head. Soon as it warms up.. It dies.
I am willing to send this saw to some one that thinks they can fix it and maybe even make it a screamer. Pay them too. Then I can rub it in the faces of the Stihl shops locally and ask why they did not think of that and why it has cost me 250.00 thus far to not get it right.
If you guys know who or can be who to get the job done... let me know.


Stephen.....


P.S. This was my womans saw, and I was using it in trees when it started giving me issues. She really wants her saw back .. LMAO

[Mr. Sir]

Sounds like an air leak somewhere. But I'm wondering why you would pay $250 if they didn't fix it? :?

[Skwerl]

Carb rebuild, you say? I've heard mention on the forums that Stihl had a problem with some of the carbs on the 200T a couple years ago. Stihl never admitted it, but some of the carbs have (or develop) an internal crack in the carb resulting in sporadic lean running. I've had exactly zero luck rebuilding carbs on these saws. Before you spend a bunch of money shipping the saw out to somebody, try just buying a new carb. They should be about $75 from the dealer and it's about a 5 minute deal to swap it out. I've had two or three 200Ts with carb problems and unsuccessful carb rebuilds that ran perfectly after getting a new carb.

[CurSedVoyce]

Three different shops ... 4 trips... gas line tested no leaks. might be one now that its been in storage for a year. And I have to pay for the work no matter. Including the 1 hour fee for just lookin at it then the parts if I ok it. some labor was waved. They are really sumptin up here. Captive audience I guess. Nearest next dealer is 1 hour away. that makes gas a thing as it would require two round trips at 1 hour.
I should just buy another one. But I really want to see if some one can fix it then go make a stink!!! Know what I mean??

[CurSedVoyce]

I was thinking I would just buy the other carb as I have read that fact in the tree house from you guys. You all know your saws really well and a lot of you do your own work. Why I am putting it out there. Also I am thinkin ignition module... Now here's my problem. I am not in good credit with time. I have none. And I have a point to prove to the "trained techs" in two towns. Sooooo why I am putting this out there.
I want to send the saw to someone and have them analyze the saw and fix it if possible. Just to prove a point.. Guess I am just that way.
But I would love to go to the techs, and say, this guy fixed this saw in his garage no problem and did not go to your school..... You could not.. HAHA

[CurSedVoyce]

Nuther point is, the dealer has been replacing my carbs on other stihl products, and guess what, a one year old carb failed (2nd one) yesterday. thats two this year and counting.

[Skwerl]

There's not much to go wrong on them. If you want to spend the money to ship it to me, I'll see if I can make it run. I even have a parts saw I can cannibalize in case your ignition module theory is correct, but I suspect it will simply be a carb replacement.

As a side note, I'm NOT in the saw repair business nor do I wish to be. But I happen to have three running 200Ts plus a parts donor so in this particular case it sounds like easy money. Plus if he doesn't pay me I get a free saw! :P

[Al Smith]

Let me see if I can find a picture of the carb which was shipped to me from Australia .

This thing had a crack in the diaphragm chamber .When it warmed up this caused untold amounts of problems .No body in Oz could find it .Took me about 5 minutes to nail it down . As they say though even a blind squirrell finds a nut now and again .

Lakeside Andy ,on a site I don't go to anymore and who is a certified Stihl Tech says they have had a bunch of problems with 200T Zama carbs .

[Al Smith]

Oh I can't find the damned thing .I still have the carb .I'll take a picture tommorrow .

[Altissimus]

One of the reasons I moved on from Sthil saws...was the constant replacement of the fuel line (including filter) from the resevoir to the carb...the grade of rubber tends to break down with age and exposure to what? Fuel!

[MasterBlaster]

I haven't had to do that to my 200 or 066, knock wood.

[Skwerl]

fuel lines aren't an issue unless you're using gas with ethanol. Now that ethanol is becoming more prevelant, these problems are also increasing. I find that running premium gas gets me fuel with less (or no) ethanol and I don't have the fuel related issues that plague so many.

Never replaced an in-tank fuel filter on a Stihl yet, never needed to. ;)

[Ax-Man]

Oh Oh is the stage being set for the mighty Al Smith to step up to the plate and solve another 200T running running with his magnifying glass. If you sent it to me you wouldn't get it back. I need some 200's for parts.

Seriously though, this sounds like like a fuel delivery problem.Take Brian's advice. If your saw has one of those crappy Zama carbs. It is just best to replace it.

I have gone rounds with these Zama carbs before on other Sthil equipment but not on a 200. Most recent is my 101 HT. I couldn't make that thing run right. Even after adjusting the valves , new ignition module and a carb job. Took it to a dealer and they can't get it to run right either. This was six weeks ago and we are still waiting for a new Zama carb because that is the only carb that machine uses. No Walbro switcheroos on this one.

Just a bit of news. I don't know how true this is but this same Sthil dealer told me this.

Sthil has bought out Zama to better over see quality control at the plant in China which turns out these crappy carbs. Zama also makes carbs that come from Japan. They might be the older ones I don't know. The Japan carbs I have had good luck with them. But any Zama I have had trouble with has China stamped into the body. I wouldn't think they would be two different divisions one in china and another in Japan.

[Skwerl]

According to the Walbro page listing Stihl applications, there's no listing for the 200T (and most of the chainsaw applications are NLA).
http://www.ordertree.com/cms/Stihl/483.html

So it looks like the OEM Zama carbs are the only easy option.

[CurSedVoyce]

Yes I live in a methanol environment... altitude and calif thing I guess. LOL
And Sqwerl, yes if nothing else it will make another good parts saw.. bar and all. But like I said, I really do want it fixed. You can Pm me with your info or email me with it and we'll give it a go. And no... You will not be made my mechanic.. LOL

[Ax-Man]

The Zama's with the A are one of the better carbs for this saw.

[Skwerl]

Hahahahaha! I got me a free saw!!! :laughing3:

Seriously though, if you're having any fuel issues at all then switch to premium gas for your mix fuel. The cost difference will be about one dollar per 5 gallons of mix. Those Stihl gas caps that swell up and won't fit right after exposure to ethanol cost $14 each, so the premium fuel will be a lot cheaper than ethanol-related repairs.

[CurSedVoyce]

Is he salivating???? LOL
Come on ... ya know I want it back... unlesssssss it is beyond (truthfully) fixing..
The Mrs. wants her saw running again... and heck so do I.

[Skwerl]

Stephen, have you removed the screen baffle out of the muffler yet? They clog up and will cause the symptoms you describe. Look at the muffler outlet and remove the hex screw there near the bottom right. It's holding down a little tab that you can grab using needlenose pliers or a small screwdriver. Pull that baffle out and throw it away. Then start the saw and see how it runs.

[Al Smith]

I'll take those pics this afternoon .I'm on my way to my shop now to get Tom's damned chip truck done and out of my way ,geeze .

I've never done it but they tell me that installing an older 20t carb on a 200 usually fixes the problem .

Thinking out loud I wonder if this dinky Walbros from a Huskie could be retrofitted without much problem ? I'll check it out when I get a chance .I've got a 200T plus two of those 335 Huskies in the pile .

[BostonBull]

Stihl now owns Zama so hopefully these problems will be resolved with some German engineering!

[Ax-Man]

Stihl now owns Zama so hopefully these problems will be resolved with some German engineering!

So it is true. I have faith in German engineering also.

The question that comes to my mind is that Sthil has always used other carb manufactures products to put on their engines like Tilly and Walbro and presently Zama. The same goes for other manufactures of engines.

Does Sthil have the expertise in the manufacture of carburators to make them better??? They could make them worse.

Just thinking out loud is all. I am sure they will do good.

[Skwerl]

Well if Stihl bought Zama, then why are all the new Huskys using them? :?

[JIML]

Al don't get it, send it my way and I guarantee I can fix it... Not joking.

200's are simple.

[sawinredneck]

MONEY, duh!!:P

[Magnus]

Is there anything published of this purchase of Zama?

[Al Smith]

The crack is just beside where I'm pointing the screwdriver and visable with the naked eye .

Now I got a wild idea that might work .Soak the carb body ,minus the soft parts in a can of acetone for a day and let it dry for a day . Take some fingernail polish and seal the crack .Might work .If not, it doesn't work anyway and you aren't out anything .

[BostonBull]

The purchase was a few months ago, and they will be making the brand better and still selling to others.

Think of this. If they can make the best carbs in the world, and still sell to their competitors they will be making money off everyone of their sales as well. They will also be privy to new ideas coming out such as electronic fuel assistance technology. Zama makes some units for other manufacturers like Husky, and now Stihl will know about these ideas LONG before us, they will be R&Ding the units to the other manufacturers specs.

I think it is a very wise purchase by Stihl!

[BostonBull]

Here ya go!

Google is your best friend, typical lazy americans!

http://www.stihl.com/isapi/default.asp?contenturl=/unternehmen/presse/tagespresse/575.htm

[CurSedVoyce]

Stephen, have you removed the screen baffle out of the muffler yet? They clog up and will cause the symptoms you describe. Look at the muffler outlet and remove the hex screw there near the bottom right. It's holding down a little tab that you can grab using needlenose pliers or a small screwdriver. Pull that baffle out and throw it away. Then start the saw and see how it runs.

Think one of the shops said they made sure the exhaust was all clean spark arrestor and such... but I will give it a look

[Skwerl]

The shops are required to put the spark arrestor back in, but if you 'lose' it the saw will run better. And if you're too paranoid to run the saw without it then I can't help you. It's a stupid, unenforcable rule that should not apply to a top handle climbing saw but Government doesn't make that distinction. They throw everything under the same broad classification with no consideration to the actual application.

[CurSedVoyce]

If they bought out the carb mfgr that may solve all problems in the carb situation I have been experiencing in more than a few stihl products... now if I only knew when I could buy the new carbs under their ownership.....lol Seriously,,, my fs 250's I am fixing and selling at half price to change my brusher line up. Both one year old and need new carbs... 2 for 500.00 once I have the new carbs on them and in working order.. I am fed up..... German engineering better not go the route of fix or repair daily like other german products I know of.. Let alone flying them in to fix the dang things.. LOL

[CurSedVoyce]

The shops are required to put the spark arrestor back in, but if you 'lose' it the saw will run better. And if you're too paranoid to run the saw without it then I can't help you. It's a stupid, unenforcable rule that should not apply to a top handle climbing saw but Government doesn't make that distinction. They throw everything under the same broad classification with no consideration to the actual application.

I have been resistant to removing it for fire conditions here.... However I may try it and only allow the saw up high and never near the ground running... If I get caught with a saw with out the arrestor.. you don't even want to know the fine... would take more than a few Good tree jobs to pay it.... The rules have got more strict here with the drought and fire season... Every year I have restrictions in that I have to have fire fighting equip on location of the saw etc.. now I can only run them certain hours of the day (we cheat a bit on that one).
When you hike (cause you cant drive with out a proper road due to new restrictions) you carry a McCloud, Fire extinguisher, water, water hose if possible and the saw. Then proceed to cut the tree down... I think the fine for no arrestor and/or no fire fighting equip is about 5000.00 now. If you start a fire.... kiss your lifestyle away.......They can sue you for all fire costs... BTW the one we just had here was over 30,000,000.00 and still adding up.
I will try what you suggest and see how it feels... Thanks

[Skwerl]

If you're having that many fuel related problems, might I guess that you're running regular gas for your mix? Switching to premium can eliminate a lot of problems. Not due to the higher octane, but rather the lack of ethanol in premium gas. Ethanol is highly corrosive and destroys rubber carb components as well as fuel lines. That's why your Stihl gas caps stick and won't go on easily.

If you're working in a fire zone and actually have people inspecting your saws for spark arrestors (I've never seen or heard of such a thing in my state), then I can modify the 200T spark arrestor baffle so it is still in place but not plugging up the muffler. ;)

[CurSedVoyce]

I have been using medium grade, been advised the premium is too high an octane for the equipment and will burn it up. So I stayed with med. I dont run regular in my equip. If you can modify the arrestor and still keep keep it from plugging... I would think this is the better option cause they do inspect here. They pull up from hearing the saws, and have book in hand. Welcome to California and the wild land areas... They don't screw around up here.
Also switched to synthetic mix for cooler running. Not the Echo mix though.. Makes fiber glass with certain fuels. I use Stihl mix only.

[MasterBlaster]

Switching to premium can eliminate a lot of problems. Not due to the higher octane, but rather the lack of ethanol in premium gas. Ethanol is highly corrosive and destroys rubber carb components as well as fuel lines.


No shit? Thanks for the education, Brian. Did the rest of ya'll know this?

[Frans]

I have been using medium grade, been advised the premium is too high an octane for the equipment and will burn it up.


Always used premium. Over 20 years now and counting, never a problem.

[QUOTE=CurSedVoyce;253780
Also switched to synthetic mix for cooler running. Not the Echo mix though.. Makes fiber glass with certain fuels. I use Stihl mix only.[/QUOTE]

Sthil, Echo, Poulan, I bet they are all the same mixes. For sure, Echo, Husky and Stihl premium mixes are all fine to use.

I don't use 'synthetic' for anything. Lots of guys swear by synthetic oils, but I really don't see a profound difference in longevity between the two.

[CurSedVoyce]

I will check our premium here especially now that I am running synthetic mix. Far as I know up here all gas has ethanol. But I will check. If you guys have not had problems, I shouldn't pending on hours I run equip I imagine. Brushers might be an issue though as they 8 hours a day 5 months a year. 5-6 day weeks.

[CurSedVoyce]

No shit? Thanks for the education, Brian. Did the rest of ya'll know this?

Very aware of the ethanol issues.... Hate the stuff.

[Ax-Man]

Hey Boston, You would probaly know more about this than the info that is on Sthils website.

This might be old news but what is up with this Andrea Sthil getting in bed with John Deere. Is Sthil going to sell their stuff in Deere stores???

If this is true I bet there are alot of Sthil dealers up in arms over this.

I know I am guilty of thread derailing but it would be interesting to hear the inside story behind this. If we can talk about Sthil buying Zama why not this along with trying to solve the carb problem.

[CurSedVoyce]

Hey axe.. that aint no thread derail in my book...
All things that any mfgrs do that effect us in the repair and buying our equipment is HIGHLY wanted here. These kind of transitions can make our lives great or highly miserable. Thanks for the heads up.

[CurSedVoyce]

Addendum... yes it is a marketing move... since John Deere has dealers that already sell and service Stihl. They are just going to make an agreement out of it and both promote each other. This will make Stihl products and service more widely available through John Deere. John Deere has a great service record and Stihl seems to be trying to pull on that. Might make more service shops available for Stihl which will be good I think in more rural areas such as mine where service for Stihl lacks support.

[BostonBull]

Yes it IS true, Stihl and Deere are in bed. We got a notificstion via email and letter last month. It basically said the same thing CursedVoyce said. It wont be a big box store type sell. If the Deere dealer does NOT service the equipment ON SITE there will be no Stihl being sold at that dealership.

[Al Smith]

Well ,you can talk premium gas and you can argue taking the screen out . Fact is the saw breaths better with the screen out ,runs better also .Premium only costs about a dime higher than regular 20 cents tops .

It isn't like you are shoving gasoline through a 460 Ford or something ,ya know .;)

[Frans]

Brushers might be an issue though as they 8 hours a day 5 months a year. 5-6 day weeks.


Uhh, I disagree. I run fs250s & fs550s, not to mention hedge trimmers, gas drills, power pruners, etc. etc. For years on premium gas.

How did you get that silly notion in your head anyway? I bet someone told you who is too cheap to buy premium so used that as an excuse.

Of the literally thousands of tree guys I have spoken to over the years, and hundreds of dealers, not one has ever said this. EXCEPT for guys wanting to save a penny here and there.

The expression is called: 'stepping over dollars to pick up cents'.

[sawinredneck]

I ONLY run premium in my two strokes now. I am also sold on synthetic, but thats my choice.
With the crap gas we are getting now days, it's a fool hardy decision not to!

[CurSedVoyce]

Uhh, I disagree. I run fs250s & fs550s, not to mention hedge trimmers, gas drills, power pruners, etc. etc. For years on premium gas.

How did you get that silly notion in your head anyway? I bet someone told you who is too cheap to buy premium so used that as an excuse.

Of the literally thousands of tree guys I have spoken to over the years, and hundreds of dealers, not one has ever said this. EXCEPT for guys wanting to save a penny here and there.

The expression is called: 'stepping over dollars to pick up cents'.

No Frans.. It was actually a Authorized Stihl service center. And... I would imagine they are going by the recommended book listing of medium grade octane gas as suggested by the manufacturer. They also did point out less additive and less contaminate in the med fuel. However they also said the high octane may burn too hot for the engine.. I would imagine they are told this by their equipment rep from stihl or whomever as the manufacturers even put it in the manual. The Owner of the shop is far from a penny pincher and will do anything to keep his rentals from being high in maintenance to turn more profit.
:)

[JIML]

I used to get a few 200t's that the pulse passage on the back of the carb did not seal well against the intake boot. My fix was to block it off completely, tap the carb for a small elbow and extend the pulse hose directly to the carb. Alot of work for such a simply problem but they ran like a shit house dream after that.

[CurSedVoyce]

I would have to investigate that further Jim ... I do believe I have seen that fix in another thread..... but yes it is definitely worth looking into ... The saw does lose power and idle once it is raised to vertical position for a cut. hmmmmmm

Frans.... I also want to add that I bought 1 fs 250 two years ago and two more last year... It was not the fuel that messed them up but literally the carbs metal componants that failed resulting in three replacements and of carbs and one dead 250 (two year old) from leaning out due to carb componant failure. The metal in the thing literally gave out. Not the rubber...
I have two five year old still running just fine..... go figure.
About the best I can acess.... is that certain parts were cheapened to hold the prices down on the Stihls to compete in the market.... Seems to have happened when gas prices went over 3.00 per gallon. Even certain plastic components were falling apart from vibration that have not in the older units....
Best I can figure... Funny how Stihl was the last to raise their prices on certain equipment when others already had...

[Magnus]

Here ya go!

Google is your best friend, typical lazy americans!

http://www.stihl.com/isapi/default.asp?contenturl=/unternehmen/presse/tagespresse/575.htm

This Press release was dated in November 2007 and it shows intent to bye.

I looked on Zama's site and found nothing on this earlyer!

Today it was there and comfirm the intent to be bought by Stihl.

This is nothing unusual and happends all over. It is complicating and not easy to do for the company's, but pretty normal...
Elux has done this many times as has other in the passed.

It creates a bit of confusion at times and is not really a good thing IMO.

They all interact if you look hard enugh on this coperate mess that is created.

Oregon owns Carlton too now.
EM is Part of Elux.
EM is also part Of Oregon.
Jenn Feng industrial is owned by Investor, that also owns HVA among other things. Jenn Feng makes Kina saws.

All this is just corperate poletic's. It is natural and complicated stuff to wade thru. It say's very little of what happends to products or company's in most cases.

You should also know that Husqvarna use parts in saws in USA that is requested by HVA in USA.
It is not sure that we have same carb's here as you do there.
There are model's we never get to see here at all and vice versa.
Not saying that there are no Zama's, of curse there is, but perhaps not the same.

I never liked Zama it is of less qualety than Tillotsson and Valbro.

[Frans]

I think gas quality and maybe even composition varies greatly from area to area

[CurSedVoyce]

Ok now I am going nuts... I want to pull apart some suggested items on the saw and I have to get laundry done, cook for vacation (spag sauce and lasagna), fix lunch for the boys... Well at least it is a day off..... LOL
I will get on some of the stuff this afternoon.... Then we'll see where we are at.

[CurSedVoyce]

Well never got to the 200t Sun and got home tonight and got busy with kids instead of the saw... Kids first, the way it has to be..
Now momma's turn... thinking I am just gonna have to wait to see what tomorrow brings...

[CurSedVoyce]

I better find a box for shipping .. I aint never gonna get into this thing...... SOME ONE SHUT THE PHONE OFFFFFFFF!

[Skwerl]

A tip for packing, drain the tanks reasonably well but you don't have to be perfect with it. Then put the saw in a thick plastic garbage bag (or double bag it if you're using the white kitchen garbage bags) and tie it closed. Then just pack it with whatever you're using- bubble wrap, styrofoam, whatever. That way they can't give you any hassle about gas or oil. Some of those clerks act like oil is radioactive or something. :roll:

[MasterBlaster]

Before I put it in the bag, I would wrap it in a light towel to absorb moisture.

[CurSedVoyce]

You guys read my mind... I was just thinkin of how I was gonna do it... Towel and bags did come to mind.....Thanks

[Skwerl]

Seriously, keep your bar and chain. I have 2 new and 4 used bars for the 200T hanging in the shop. I keep plenty of spares because I prefer to have that stuff on hand when I need it. I also have about 2/3 of a roll of 63PM chain and about 6-7 new loops made up hanging on a hook. The only thing you will do by including the bar and chain is add to your shipping weight.
;)

[MasterBlaster]

Back when I was cruising in my pimpmobile I had to stow my gear in the trunk. My 200t was stinking up the inside of the car, so I kept it in a plastic bag. I soon noticed the condensation/water build up om the saw and I knew it wasn't a good thing. I took to wrapping it in a towel first and that eliminated that problem.

[CurSedVoyce]

Cool... Been searching the house for an old towel... Katy hoem now.. think she'll find me one....
Thanks :)

[MasterBlaster]

Paper towels would work for shipping.

[CurSedVoyce]

Sthil, Echo, Poulan, I bet they are all the same mixes. For sure, Echo, Husky and Stihl premium mixes are all fine to use.



Nope...Echo mix... mixed with Exxon (only one we know so far) make a fiber that clogs the exhaust on the saw... Some sort of chemical reaction to an additive. I have seen it first hand and it aint pretty... Looks like fiber glass that is carbonized...

[Magnus]

I send a saw or two now and then..

I place the bag in the box and put stuff in bottom.
Then the saw that is in another bag, tied up, and stuff around it.

I use news paper a lot. Saved my ass more than once!

[Cobleskill]

I was told there is less heat in a gallon of premium than there is in regular.

A synthetic blend is the best as pure synthetic is supposed to not protect engine as well if it sits for a while.

I have had trouble with the Zama carbs using a sealant on the Welch plugs. The new gas (ethanol?) eats it up.

If the saw runs crappy when you change its position the flop tube in the gas tank is suspect.

[Al Smith]

.

If the saw runs crappy when you change its position the flop tube in the gas tank is suspect.--or believe it or not ,a crank seal .

[RIVERRAT]

--or believe it or not ,a crank seal . Al, I had that happen.
I came so close to throwing that damn saw against the wall several times. My Grandpa asked me 3 questions about it. He was gone for about 1/2 an hour. Returned with new crank seals.

When I asked him how he figured it out with just 3 questions he said because I taught you & the frustration on your face told me you had all ready checked everything else:)

[rbtree]

[QUOTE=Cobleskill;255211]I was told there is less heat in a gallon of premium than there is in regular.

A synthetic blend is the best as pure synthetic is supposed to not protect engine as well if it sits for a while.

QUOTE]


don't think that's true. We've been running full synthetic Mobil Racing 2T for years now....just like any fuel/mix blend, it's best to use within a few weeks....or add a stabilizer....

[CurSedVoyce]

Who has gas sitting around more than a week???? LOL
I always find that funny when they ask me at a shop... Old gas?? I just laugh and say I wish it would last that long.. LOL
During weed eating season... we go through 5-10 gal a day, 5gal of mix and 5 unmixed for the DR... Clearing season... 2-3 Gal a day on mixed.. Two five gallon cans dont last long in my stable....

[Cobleskill]

Conventional oil is supposed to provide protection for a longer period for the saw if it sits around I don't know if it is true, but have read it several times. Who was it ,Al?, that tore down the old homey that was well protected by the 16-1 mix in it.

[Al Smith]

Who was it ,Al?, that tore down the old homey that was well protected by the 16-1 mix in it.
That was old blue but I didn't tear it down ,cleaned some chit out of the carb though .Just dumped in some fuel and it lite off on a half dozen pulls after sitting for 20 years .

That's not as uncommon as one would think because that monster of a David Bradley did the same thing .

I've not experianced nearly the problems with the old boat anchors that ran the Tillotson HL's as with the Walbro's on the Stihls . Fact is ,I have a damned good running 042 that gives me fits .If that stupid thing sits for 3 months,wet or dry I have to rebuild the carb . The last time it layed down on me I banished that son of a brick to sit on the shelf until I get over my pout .That's been two years ago,still pissed at that thing .:X ;)

[Skwerl]

Another climber buddy of mine was having saw problems (200T). He's been using one of my spare 200Ts for almost a week and I finally made him drop his saw off here this afternoon since he wasn't any closer to getting it fixed.

Typical problem of running lean, wouldn't idle down, acted worse when it was hot, etc. So I started at the carb and couldn't find anything wrong. Swapped carbs with one of my running saws and no change. More importantly, his carb worked fine on my saw. So the next target for investigation was the crank seals. It sure acted like the flywheel side crank seal was bad, it even ran better when I coated the seal with grease and then reassembled and fired up the saw.

30 minutes ago another buddy called and asked me if I checked the impulse hose. I said "Of course not, I'm an idiot!" Sure enough, the impulse line was unplugged. I put it all back together and the saw runs fine. :|:

At least I get my saw back from Matt tomorrow, he gets his saw and it didn't cost anything (other than my time). Hopefully he will offer me something for the use of my saw for a week. But he's a typical broke tree climber, so there's a good chance I did this just for the satisfaction of helping somebody out. God knows enough people helped me out when I was younger.

[Ax-Man]

Your such a good guy Brian.

Be thankful it was just an unplugged pulse line and not a seal. I tangled with a 200 a few weeks back that had a bad seal. The seals on those saws are definately different. They are a very hard seal. The outer lip is almost like a ceramic material and some what brittle. I had to practically chisel the old seal out. Putting them in is no fun either. I broke one trying to get it in. The second one of the pair I was able to get in with no problem but I had to be real careful and go slow with lots of lubricant.

Without going into a long story as there is more to this other than a leaking seal just to get a rearhandled 200 parts saw up to being able to use as a ground saw.

I had a go round myself with one of those Zama carbs. Darn saw ran great in the shop. Got the saw out on a job and then puked. A carb kit worked on this one along with a good long soaking in some solvent for the carb body. Still had to fuss with it to get it dialed in. We used it today and used it hard to see if it would act -up. It didn't. :D

[MasterBlaster]

Your such a good guy Brian.


I noticed that about him waaaaaaaay back at AS, LOL! :lol:

[Skwerl]

Well, shit. That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I'm really not that nice, I just feel guilty sometimes for all the breaks I've gotten over the years and I'm just trying to appease the gods and bring myself some good karma. It's all selfish motives, believe me.
:evil:

[CurSedVoyce]

Well now that I am back from vacation.... That saw needs to be boxed and got out to ya Brian to see what ya can do fer her...
I will let you know when its on its way probably y the end of the week.. Playing catch up right now ..... Got the chippper back running though... TG for warranty... Governor on the carb flaked out and it ran too hot and blew a rod or sumtin.. All better now :)

[Magnus]

The seals I get here for 020/200 is not that hard???

I often notice when they are tricky to set is when they need more work...

Impulse line, pic up lines, manifolds etc can be really tricky.

Brian got a easy one that was not connected...

But what if you have it connected, clear passege, but no impulse?

Had a saw here that did not run right and I could not find anything in particular wrong till I lifted jug.... NO ring!
It should not fire at all, but ran.... Very porly but it did run!

Not all is explaineble or even possible to understand.

[High Scale]

Good info people, I have two of my friends saws that I am still struggling with, one I have totally strip down and cleaned, new carb kit, fuel line was bad, replaced that with a spare one I had but it really need a new one, it runs will rev out but the will gain revs and stall. It also nearly stalls when you gun the throttle.

I have changed the carb for one from my saw that I Know is good, no change in the running of the saw.

Annoying.

[Ax-Man]

Not all is explaineble or even possible to understand.

Good one Magnus. Did a little chainsaw philisophical musing go into that one. I think I'll print that out in big bold letters and frame it for my office. 8)

[Magnus]

Well, I have seen some wieard crap happen to saws I find no explenations for and don't understand so I can honestly say it is very true!

Some things should not be possible...

One guy running a 357 with two cylinderbolts broken of and the other two loose enugh to bend the rod!
Still ran when he came here with it!

[Skwerl]

I finally got Stephen's 200T today. I spent about an hour and a half working on it and I think it's running pretty good now. I'm going to take it out and run it on a job to see how it performs in real world conditions.

Pictures 1-2 are what the saw looked like when I took it out of the box. The air filter was dripping soaked in what appeared to be motor oil and the fuel in the carb smelled very stale. I removed the adjustment limiter on the high speed jet so I could adjust the carb (pic 3). The 90 degree angled rubber nipple was missing but I had an extra that I put on the diaphram breather (pic 4). The muffler screen was completely plugged as I suspected (pic5) but the spark plug looked fine.

I cleaned everything up and dialed in the carb. The idle set screw was screwed all the way in so the idle was about 8000 rpm but I got everything dialed in pretty close (pics 7-8 ). Then I put the modified spark screen back in and the saw fell flat on it's face again. So I went back in and pulled the muffler and it was packed solid inside. This is what I've seen on several 200Ts that are run on the regular orange bottle Stihl mix oil. I pulled out a spare muffler that I had previously cleaned up and opened up a little and swapped them out. I think Stephen attempted to get into his muffler before since 3 of the 4 screws holding it together were missing. The lock washers on the two screws holding the muffler to the piston were missing as well. ;) I tried to get a picture of the inside of the jug through the exhaust port but it didn't come out.

I put in the modified muffler and spark screen and bolted everything back together, then reset the carb again. It runs and idles well and I'll know more after I run it on the job for an hour. The last two pics are idle and WOT rpm with the modified muffler and modified spark screen installed.
8)

[JIML]

I usually end up welding those damned mufflers back together. screws break every time you try to take them out.. Bitch to clean them but once they are clean they weld nice.

I usually just throw the spark screen away. I got a new 200t at work and pitched it in the tool box before I ever put gas in it. (shhh!) Doggy saw with that thing in it.

[MasterBlaster]

I thought everyone tossed that screen, right off the bat.

[High Scale]

The 90 degree angled rubber nipple was missing but I had an extra that I put on the diaphram breather (pic 4).

How much difference can the angled rubber nipple make to the running of the saw?
Love that Max Tach, thingy me jig.

[Skwerl]

Read back in the thread, Butch. I tried to talk him into that but he works on Federal land and they will check for those screens. The fines are pretty stiff for noncompliance.

High Scale, I'm not sure how much difference it would make but I couldn't just leave the hole open for crud to get in there.

[Ax-Man]

Wow, that muffler was super carboned up. I have seen some crappy mufflers but that one is pretty bad. That saw was either running super rich or too much oil to gas ratio.

Good job Brian. It is hard to imagine that Stephan's local Sthil dealer couldn't have figured that one out. With some basic chainsaw trouble shooting like your doing they should have had that saw running.

It just might be par for the course though.

I put in a request yesterday at my local Sthil dealer. I still have a 046 mag with a bad bearing. I have the parts but time is my enemy. I would like to get this saw back into the line-up for work. I asked the Sthil dealer how much they would charge to split the case and do the bottom end work if I broke the saw down for them to save them time and me some money.

Guess what. They don't do that. The counter guy told me that he had never seen anyone in the shop break a saw down that far. They don't have the tools or experience. The counter guy also thought it was a bad idea to split the case on a saw as he said the results aren't all that great after it is done. Hmmm

I just found this strange is all. I can understand about the time and labor to rebuild a saw. Might as well buy a new one. But I hate to buy one of the newer 46's when I have put work and money already into this one

Oh well guess I'll have to do it myself one of these years after I get my 56 back together which is still in pieces.

I am sure that 200 will perform good on the job. Unless it has an airleak in it.

[Al Smith]

It really isn't that big of a deal to split a set of Stihl cases . I know they list special tools but you do not need them .

Get the saw down to the bones then heat the bearing pocket with a heat gun .The case will expain faster than the bearing and the thing will come right apart . Toss the crank ,bearings and all in the freezer for a spell,maybe over night . 90 percent of the times the bearings will pop right off ,if not put a little heat on them . Toss the now bald headed crank back in the freezer .

After it's good and cold heat the inner race a tad .A soldering iron works good for this unless the bearing has a plastic cage then just warm in with a heat gun .They usually pop right back on . Back in the freezer again .

Back out when it's cold .Heat up one case side around the bearing pocket ,shove the crank in it then do likewise the other .

This might not be the certified method one of those factory trained "gold level " Stihl techs do it but it works 'cause I've done a bunch of them .

[CurSedVoyce]

This is why I wanted Brian to try this out and see if he could fix it. BTW.. this saw went to three dealers/service shops that all swore it was fixed, carb rebuilt and muffler and spark arrestor cleaned. All swore it was all fixed.. I would take it out in the parking lot, fire it up and take it back in and get MOST of my money back, than take it some where else. The saw never went to another job after it crapped out the first time or came out of each of the three shops. I shelved it two years ago and had given up on it. But I got a burr in my saddle with the latest I been going through with the zama carbs. Which I learned from you guys are a problem. I thought I had all the gas out of it Brian when I shelved it, sorry if I missed some, I was pretty pissed after the third shop round.
Obviously those shops never did the work they said they did. I had a feeling I was being ripped. Another reason I had given up on it. I don't know much about fixing them or have the time to so I have to rely on mechanics mostly save for the really simple stuff...

Brian that is great news so far.. Also you are right about the stihl mix, I only use the stihl synthetic now, seems to not clog the spark arrestors as fast.

I cant wait to go into my local shop and wave this shat in their face and have a lil talk to with the owners of the shop.
And Brian, I did not try to get in the muffler.. That is how it came back from the last shop... Interesting eh?

And I would also like to know where to the get the tach you have, I am trying to learn and that would be handy for some simple tuning. :)

Cant wait to hear how it performs in the field and get her home if she does :) She needs to get back into the trees...

[Al Smith]

Good job B . Once again showing that often times running problems can be traced to a plugged exhaust .If it can't get out it can't get in .

Now I wonder about those screens and restrictions about them when running on public lands . If they are just looking for a screen then replace that finely meshed one with one of courser material if that would suffice to keep the chainsaw police off your case ? I don't know myself ,never had the occasion to cut on public lands and chainsaw gestapos are non existant in these parts .

[Skwerl]

I ran the saw in the shop a little more last night and it was still doggy with the screen in place, so I cut off the end of the screen and just screwed the outer portion back on the muffler. From the outside it still looks like there's a screen in place but there isn't. I'll send Stephen an extra unused screen in case he gets nervous and would prefer having a doggy saw. ;)

It's raining today so I won't have an opportunity to run it in some wood, but I have a small job tomorrow morning and I'll put it to work then.

[Al Smith]

Here is another point to ponder .On those little saws which are likely around 2 HP .if you lose 10 percent from a plugged exhaust ,that is a bunch . Good little saws but they need all the help you can give them to remain good cutters .

[Burnham]

Regarding the need to have an exhaust screen in place to comply with US Forest Service requirements when cutting (either under contract doing work or by permit, like for firewood)...it's my experience, when I inspect saws and what I see other FS COR's do, is look for the presence of a screen by cursory visual inspection of the muffler, externally. I have never pulled a screen, so Brian's ploy would pass me easily. I'd probably notice if the mesh was coarser than OEM, and would likely require replacement unless it was only a minor difference ...but I'm considered a hard case as a contract administrator, in general.

If you really can't abide the spark arrestor, pull the screen but be absolutely sure you have a new, clean one and a mount screw with you...that way if you are busted by an inspection you can plead that the screen was lost and unnoticed by you but you can replace it right now and continue work. Put one back in yourself if the fire precaution level rises above a 1 (low).

The risk you take by these actions is small, unless you start a wildfire...then the post fire investigation/inspection could get far more intense. If you are found liable for a fire start, you could and likely would be charged for the costs of fighting said fire. As anyone knows who follows these things, multi-millions get spent in short order on large fires, and even a small one could easily run into the hundreds of thousands right quick. Like I said, the chances of this outcome are awfully low, but the financial consequences could be dire should it happen.

[CurSedVoyce]

I am in a high (extremely high) fire risk area.. The last fire I recently went through here was started by gun fire.. Metal jacket bullet. Riccochet, spark and pooof... Millions of dollars and thousands of acres later..... Yeah they are serious here about laws and restrictions on equipment. And I AM liable if I start a fire. One hot piece of carbon is all it takes... During our fire season.

[Al Smith]

I can fully understand on those western slopes where fire would be an ever present danger and must be avoided by every means possible .

Here in the hardwoods of the midwest ,it's really not a problem ,different evironment all together . Rarely,very rarely does a woods catch afire and then it is usually started by a wheat field fire from an adjacent field .

Due to the fact the wheat fires occur in July ,if the woods does burn it very rarely sets anything on fire much past the first 50 feet around the field because of the moisture in the woods that time of year . Even in late fall there is so much moisture on the fallen leaves they don't burn very much .It seems when the leaves fall ,the fall monsoons set in .Fact it's raining as I type like a cow peeing on a flat rock .

I'm sure though that dry pine needles are a different story all together .

[Skwerl]

Since it was a boring rainy day today I figured I'd go ahead and clean up Stephen's old muffler and get it ready for the next 200T to come across my bench. I neglected to show the other modified muffler before putting it on Stephen's saw but I can show what I did on this one.

I haven't found anything that will easily dissolve the baked on carbon crud but the spray carb cleaner seems to loosen it up a little, then I just scrape off as much as I can with a small screwdriver and blow it out with air. The main concern is leaving partially loosened chunks that can break free and possibly end up back inside the jug (or even plug up the screen if you're using one).

There's not much to these mufflers but the exit path is quite convoluted and makes no sense. The obvious exit route is where the screen is screwed in place, but with that hole plugged the exhaust must exit through a narrow crack indicated by the uppermost red arrow. On Stephen's saw this narrow opening was almost completely closed off, as you can see in the picture above. On this muffler I widened the opening by about 1/4", almost doubling the size of the exit path.

On either side of the exhaust port there are small tits sticking up to create extra back pressure and resist the flow entering the muffler. I removed those as well. Without the screen in place (it slides in the groove you see between the exhaust port and exit hole) the exhaust has a clean shot to vent without excessive back pressure. If you decide to use the screen, it will still function as designed but it will be the most restrictive part of the muffler. If you must use it then at least pull it out once a month and clean it thoroughly.

I have the chopped screen on the saw as shown by the red line in the picture below. The brand new unused screen is taped to the inside lid of the box.

[sawinredneck]

Easy off oven cleaner works pretty good on gunk like that Brian.

[brendonv]

Bet it'd be nice to have a in house sandblaster.

[Skwerl]

Cool Andy, thanks for the tip. I think I've heard that before but I've never tried it and I certainly didn't remember it. Stephen can also use that tip for cleaning his spark screens.

I also forgot to take pictures of how to remove the muffler on the 200T without taking the whole saw apart. You simply remove the little plastic cover under the sprocket, remove the two scres holding the muffler to the jug and slide the muffler out the side. If anybody needs clarification on that, holler up and I'll take some pictures to post here.
:)

[sawinredneck]

No worries Brian, I help when I can!

We used to use that to strip engines before painting them.

(Works great for cleaning cosmoline off of AK-47's also, but thats a whole other story)

[Al Smith]

"Easy off " also is a very good method of cleaning the pitch from a table saw blade if it has cut a bunch of pine .

Nothing more annoying that attempting to make fine finish cuts with a cabinet grade blade that is caked full of pitch .

[stehansen]

All my mufflers are stock because of what Burnham said. Skwerl, it looks like you have this chainsaw mechanics stuff dialed in. Stephen I know it's quite a drive for you but "The Saw Shop" in Turlock is pretty good. Not as good as Skwerl of course.

[Al Smith]

If you want or need to run screens ,so be it .You don't want the rest of Cali to go up in smoke . If you increase the hole size with screen you could get the same effect as removing the screen if this would be permisable as per forestry dept specs . You can buy that screening through Mc Master -Carr . I don't think a 12 by 12 square is too much and it would make a bunch of screens .

[CurSedVoyce]

I might give them a try sometime Steve. See what saw breaks next... If you have had good luck with them ..
I might be better off just shipping to Brian or such with gas the way it is and all.. LOL

[Stumper]

I type like a cow peeing on a flat rock.


A most interesting metaphor.

[Al Smith]

A most interesting metaphor. Actually there is tad bit more to that regional slang type country humor thing which I omitted due to a mixed crowd ,metaphorically speaking .;)

[Al Smith]

A most interesting metaphor.-- And to further elaborate ,regarding my typing it can be compaired to the certain habits of old folks ,slow and sloppy ,without further elaboration as to reference of same .:|:

[pantheraba]

I finally read this thread...a good progression on the repairs and explanations of what was going on.

Thanks, Brian, for taking the time to document what you did. I didn't understand it all 'cause I haven't dug deep into my saws yet...but the exposure was good and will give me some reference points when I eventually do.

[Skwerl]

Well I ran the saw a little bit today. There wasn't much work so I only ran about a half tank of gas through it but it ran well after some very minor carb adjustments (1/16th of a turn on the low end jet, then I leaned out the main jet a hair to bump the max RPM up to 14k). My buddy Dave picked it up to make a few cuts and commented that it ran strong. It's not even much louder than a stock saw since the pseudo screen is still covering the spark screen hole. I think you could run it as is for 5 years and never know the spark screen was cut.

I have 4 pine tree removals to do Monday so I'll run it one more day before boxing it up and sending it back home. Stephen, just send me whatever you think is fair for a couple hours tinkering and shipping fees. It's been fun getting to diagnose and fix it. :)

[Al Smith]

Aha B ,you are getting there ,I'll say that .:)

Before too long you may get the idea to take on your own mods .Go for it ,you might be pleasently surprised at what you can do if you put your mind to it .

[squisher]

Hell ya, I'd send ya a saw to woods mod Brian. Could be something to keep ya busy during the slow season.;)

[Skwerl]

For you Skwishey, only $400 and I'll have it back to you in less than 6 months. :P ;)

[squisher]

$400 FFS! I'd have a go at it myself before I paid that much!:D

[Skwerl]

*plus shipping and handling. ;)

[Dave Shepard]

I should send you my box-o-394xp. You could then get some experience splitting and installing bearings. I got the case back together, screwed up a seal, and now I think I really should have bought bearings.:roll: Maybe someday I'll look at it again, at least it didn't get introduced to the anvil.:/:

[Skwerl]

I've never split a case before, Dave. I think I tried to talk you out of doing that but I'm not sure. For myself, I'd rather slap a top end on and take my chances on the bottom end being ok. Seems like splitting the cases usually results in a box of spare parts, cheaper to just buy a new saw.
;)

Old Al seems to think splitting cases isn't a big deal, you might have better luck trying to sweet talk him. Perhaps you could bribe him with some pie or something. :lol:

Another option is to find a used donor saw with a still-assembled case and good bottom end, then rebuild it with your parts.

[Dave Shepard]

I don't know if the pie will work, won't I have to find and old Mac for him to tinker with?:lol: I've got to order the bearings and another (or two) seal from Bailey's, then I'll split it, again.:X They say all educations are expensive.:roll: Of course, I may revert to plan A, which is to put the dang thing together and see what happens.:evil: Are there any online service manuals that detail case splitting? Al's heat gun deal seemed to work pretty well, but the reassembly is a bit nerve-wracking.

[Al Smith]

Al's heat gun deal seemed to work pretty well, but the reassembly is a bit nerve-wracking.:lol: It can be but remember everybody has to have a first time for everything .;)

[sawinredneck]

Well Brian, I know you don't wan't to hear it, so Just STFU!!

You ain't nothing but an M@M, ya get past the hard shell, nuthin but soft candy inside!!

You hate to hear it, and hate even more to admit it, but you are good people.

(Yes, thats another F'ing compliment!)

[CurSedVoyce]

Thanks Brian for getting things done on that saw and for putting all you did in the thread... I will be getting a check out to you asap ... should go out Mon.. I did not see a price for any parts also ... please let me know ...
This thread panned out nicely with your help and everyones insight and participation... Thanks :)

[sotc]

so shall i start a new thread or can i ask about oilers? one of my 200ts quit oiling yesterday, today i rinsed the oil tank with gas and blew the saw out good. still no oil. also thanks for the muffler pics and description brian, i pulled my first two off today and degummed them8)

[Skwerl]

I didn't have any outlay for parts, just a couple small pieces out of my spare parts box. I had about 2 hours total time diagnosing, cleaning and doing the muffler work. According to www.ups.com the shipping should be $23.50 to get this delivered to your door.

We could ask the forum members what they think a fair price would be.....
:/:

[sawinredneck]

"I got $300, do I have $325, gimme $325, looking for $325..............................:lol:

[Skwerl]

Willie, on the 200T oiler my first guess would be a plugged pickup or pump. This is due to the horrible new caps that cause lots of crud to fall in the tank every time you refill it. I'd spin off the clutch and remove the access covers, then pull the oiler pump and clean it out. you can pull out the pickup line from that side as well, to blow it out and make sure it's not plugged.

[sotc]

i was afraid of that. how do i go about pulling the clutch?

[Skwerl]

13mm socket and an air wrench. It's left hand thread so make sure you're spinning it clockwise to remove it. If you don't have an air wrench then you gotta pull the spark plug and use a piston stop to keep the crank from turning. If the saw is over a year old then you'll probably need a new sprocket while you have it off. :/:

Once the clutch and sprocket are off, take off the plastic dust covers with the three torx head screws. The oiler is right there held in place with 2 more torx screws. You'll need to blow the crud off everything in order to see it.

[sotc]

8) you rock B, thanks. do it tomorrow

[CurSedVoyce]

I was wondering about where that oiler was... I got two huskys I need to rectify....

[Skwerl]

Willie,
I went out and took a picture of a junk 200T so you could see the oiler pump. It's fairly self explanitory I think.

[Dave Shepard]

Don't the Stihls come with a piston stop new? I got some sort of funky plastic doohinckus with mine. I guess I could go get the manual out, but since we have experts here...:)

Al, I think I'll give it one more try, I like the saw that much.;)

[Skwerl]

Yes, that plastic doohinckus is a piston stop. :lol: It's just easier for me to grab the air wrench though.

[sotc]

cool brian, looks like it just slides off at that point

[squisher]

In the bush to spin my clutch off I'd either use a long handled bar wrench and hit it with the bar against the compression stroke counterclockwise or eventually I got a dummy plug to use. I can't beleive y'all don't know how to take your clutch off? How did you change your sprocket on the old husky's?


Brian this thread has been awesome. Your info is invaluable thanks for sharing.

[Al Smith]

A piece of starter rope works well for a piston stop also .Just make sure you don't get it snagged in the ports .

Often times those clutchs get a little tough to take off . If you don't have an impact wrench block the piston then use a box end wrench and rap it smartly with a hammer to break the clutch loose .

When you put it back together make sure it's tight .I once made the mistake of not doing so and spun one loose on an old Mac and it shot down my drive way at about 100 miles per hour .Luckily I found it about a hundred feet away .

[sotc]

sprocket?:D i change those every year or 2:D never changed a spur on a 200 yet:D

[squisher]

Smart guy eh?:D

:lol:

[sotc]

got it brian, ezpz. pulled the pump and oil cap, blew some air backwards through the hose and away we oil

[stehansen]

I always have the sawshop guys change my sprockets.

[Skwerl]

Glad you got it fingered out, Willie. :)
Steve, do you own an air compressor? If you do, and if you have the skills to change a lawnmower blade, then you can change the sprocket on your 200T. It's literally that easy. Although I prefer doing it where I have air available so I can blow the saw out and make sure I get the idler bearing clean and greased before putting it back together.

[CurSedVoyce]

I am going to be ordering the tools to do the sprockets here.. Friggen brushing really eats them up. I go through about 3 a year. We wont talk about bars... Longest a saw has lasted me in the brush was a husky 455 18 bar, 4 years and throw away.

[Al Smith]

I am going to be ordering the tools to do the sprockets here.. What tools ? On a Stihl they are outboard ,just pop the E clip off ,takes about a minute . On an inboard ,Mac,Huskey,Poulan whatever ,about 5-10 minutes .A chunk of starter rope and a wrench are all that's needed .

[CurSedVoyce]

I have a compressor and small air impact, but I want the clutch wrench and the piston stop for my huskys.... Make for quick fix that I can't do right now on my brushing saws. Maybe I just dont get the starter rope idea in my head.. enlighten me...

[squisher]

You can pull the plug and stuff starter cord down into the cylinder to 'jam' the piston so you can spin the clutch off. I used to do it on my old Huskys with the excess starter cord I'd pull up out of the handle. It was a tool that you always had on you. Then with just a bar wrench and already what is with your saw you could spin your clutch off.

Take your sidecover, bar and chain off. Then pull your plug and pull out the extra starter cord up through the handle without letting it get pulled back in stuff it down into the cylinder to stop the piston. Then place your bar wrench on the clutch and smack it off with your bar. Lol what a pita.

I ended up buying a metal piston stop which some people said could damage your piston. I always 'top' out the piston snug up against the stop before I spin the clutch off. Easy.

[CurSedVoyce]

Well the piston stop is what I see the mechs use down at the local shop... like ya said... snug up and turn.. they have a clutch wrench sorta thingy which is basically a breaker bar with two pins on it that fit into the clutch to turn it... seems to work really well when I watch ... think I saw the tools on baileys and gonna get them... Most my fixes like this will take place at home in my shop. Field fix only if I dont have my back up saws that I always have.... Same with the brushers... Just pick up the next one and get on with it.

[lumberjack]

The further from top dead center (the highest point the piston gets in its travel) the piston stop engages the piston, the less pressure the piston top/face of piston and bottom end will see.

I used some misc rope I had laying around for a piston stop.

[CurSedVoyce]

Cant say I wont try the rope for a stop... But... I really like having tools.... :) OCGD I guess... Heck ... Just bought some great tool boxes at a yard sale for 100 buks for three ;). Pressure washer for 25 that just made me 200 bucks the other day... Same yard sale... So having the tools is good for me.. But yup... I will try the rope just for fun :)

[sotc]

litterally a 5 minute job off and on with air wrench

[High Scale]

I have found carburetor cleaner good for unblocking an oil pump on a 020t.

[Al Smith]

I have found carburetor cleaner good for unblocking an oil pump on a 020t.--- Or WD-40 kerosine ,diesel fuel . On the pole saws which don't have the best oilers anyway,an occasional tank full of tranny fluid .

Tranny fluid while not being the best choice for bar lube contains a detergent which "eats " the sludge and residue the bar oil leaves behind .

[woodworkingboy]

I used to always use rope to jam up the piston, then I started modifying engines and needed to find the timing, which requires knowing top dead center. I took a round plug of wood that was soft enough to thread it's way through the plug hole, and it became my piston stop ever since.

Just buy some doweling from the hardware store, the next size up from the plug hole, shave it down if necessary, put a little oil on it and it will easily thread itself through. No damage to the piston top from wood, works great.

Tell them woodworkingboy sent you :)

[Al Smith]

A piston stop to determine top dead center and one to safely lock the piston are often confusing to some folks .

I know some people use the metal ones but that kind of scares me it might crack the piston like an egg .Maybe an unfounded concern .

They make a nylon piston stop which only cost a few bucks if a person would prefer that .I always just used the rope myself but then again I'm just a tad bit set in my ways or so I've been told .

[stehansen]

Glad you got it fingered out, Willie. :)
Steve, do you own an air compressor? If you do, and if you have the skills to change a lawnmower blade, then you can change the sprocket on your 200T. It's literally that easy. Although I prefer doing it where I have air available so I can blow the saw out and make sure I get the idler bearing clean and greased before putting it back together.

Yeah, I have two of them Brian. Now that I think I know how to do it, I won't be so afraid of ending up with a bucket of parts.

[squisher]

I will also add that if your saw is healthy you can wack the clutch off with a longhandled barwrench (the ones made to fit in under a full wrap are best) and just your bar smacking against the compression. This can also be an exercise in frustration though.:|:

[CurSedVoyce]

Sounds Frustrating to me....
I can't wait to hear from Brian on how she ran today, think he was going to work her....
Can't wait to get her back ...
Did I mention this was originally my wifes saw??

[Skwerl]

As a final note on this, I shipped the saw out this afternoon. It wasn't that difficult of a repair and it's disappointing that so many saw shops can't (or won't) fix basic issues such as this. Stephen did everything by the book, kept the saw 100% stock with all the safety items intact, used the manufacturer's recommended mix oil and the result was a completely plugged up muffler that the dealer could not fix. :( You really cannot count on your dealer for everything and it's ok to be sceptical of their advice sometimes.

And if I may pat myself on the back just once (hopefully I won't throw out my shoulder), I've gotten saws back from several builders that were covered in grit and grime and totally nasty. I took about 5 minutes with the air hose and blew out this saw out before packing it up. It's about the same level of maintenance I perform on my own saws once every week or two (depending on usage). Here's a couple pics from today compared with pics of the saw when I pulled it out of the box a week ago.

[stehansen]

I'll have to check out my muffler screens.

[CurSedVoyce]

I can't thank Brian enough for pursuing this project. The saw looks great Brian. I am sorry I did not have it cleaner for you.. Like I said, I shelved it two years ago and never touched it after I got it back from all three shops save for test runs. Drained it and shelved it. Sort of consigned I would not be able to get anyone to get it fixed. But you proved all the shops wrong and I really can't wait to go in and let them know how bad they messed up. I spend thousands in repair and maintenance a year with at least one of these shops. One by one they have lost all or most of my business.. I have actually been asked by one of the shops if I am doing ok this year 'cause they don't see me as often.. You can imagine my response. LOL
The people in this forum are awesome when it comes to saws and the profession we are all in. In some form or another.
Thank you all for your contributions to all our threads and especially mine. Also for all the support and knowledge you so willingly and selflessly share.

[Al Smith]

B did a great job but as he pointed out this was elementry and any decent saw shop should have found the problem .

Not trying to be a know it all but I think everybody that owns and operates a saw should become familiar with simple things like a plugged muffler ,broken fuel lines and other things that saws just get from time to time .

I'm not in anyway saying that a person has to be a guru at building modified engines or anything like that ,just a few basics . You'll save yourself a lot of grief and money if you do .;)

[Magnus]

For you Skwishey, only $400 and I'll have it back to you in less than 6 months. :P ;)

If I had the money to spare I would send a saw just for the hell of it!

:P:D:lol:

[CurSedVoyce]

Up date on the 200t... Finally got her up in a tree after getting her back. Saw really performed well with Brians work on it. Slayed a live oak.. Cut right through 14 " dead wood with the 16 bar.. NP. Solid not rotted BTW.
Missed her light weight and balance in the trees these last couple of years... Hopefully I can pick up one more next year to use as back up.
Thanks again Brian... :)

[Skwerl]

You're welcome, Stephen. Glad I could help. :D

[hornett22]

glad it worked out.awesome saw! i love mine.

i cannot say enough about compressed air.i do not understand why more people don't use it.especially considering you can get an air compressor a hell of a lot cheaper than the saws we have.i've seen 60 gallon compressors for 20% less than the cost of an ms200t.

[CurSedVoyce]

Have one hornett and use it all the time..
Maybe when I slow down and not work as much I will learn more about repairs besides the standard lil shat and have time to make them. Time is mostly my problem.. I have not lost a day this year to no work..

[hornett22]

glad to hear you're busy.wish we were here.i love to work so it'd frustrating.

didn't mean you .i meant a lot of guys i know.amazing how they treat their equipment.

[Al Smith]

glad it worked out.awesome saw! i love mine.

i cannot say enough about compressed air.i do not understand why more people don't use it. You can pick up a cheapie ,3HP 30 gallon single stage for a couple hundred . Something like this will work well for the average person . Besides blowing off a saw they come in real handy for inflating a tire .

I have a 3 HP 30 gal at the house and a 5HP dumping into two 60 gal tanks at my shop at 150 psi . In addition I have a 10 HP sitting on a 120 gal I have yet to use . I could sand blast with that one .

[NeTree]

Good job, Skwerl!

[stehansen]

You can pick up a cheapie ,3HP 30 gallon single stage for a couple hundred . Something like this will work well for the average person . Besides blowing off a saw they come in real handy for inflating a tire .

I have a 3 HP 30 gal at the house and a 5HP dumping into two 60 gal tanks at my shop at 150 psi . In addition I have a 10 HP sitting on a 120 gal I have yet to use . I could sand blast with that one .

You will need some kind of big electric hook up for that 10 horse, no?

[Dave Shepard]

50 amp breaker should handle it. I think a 10HP is 44FLA

[Al Smith]

50 amp breaker should handle it. I think a 10HP is 44FLA Most likely is on single phase .

This one is 3 phase 480 volt .My home made rotary phase converter is only a 5 HP which is too small to start this thing . Not a big deal I have a 15 HP to make a larger converter ,just haven't taken the time to do so .It's on my list of stuff to do which seems to get longer rather than shorter .

After thought : My shop is on it's own 200 amp service ,no problem running out of power .I had some pro do it .

[Dave Shepard]

So, you have to put a transformer on it after it comes out of the RPC?

[Al Smith]

So, you have to put a transformer on it after it comes out of the RPC? Oh you wouldn't believe my shop .I've got 120/240 single phase . 240 and 480 3 phase 208/365 Europian Y , 277 single .

Yes to the question . .2 -10 KVA single phase xformers hooked up bassakwards ,480 out running a single voltage 480 motor ,in turn going to a 7.5 kva 480 to 240 can for my 240 3 phase loads .


If I had enough transformers I could build a bolt of lightning .;)

[Cut4fun]

This was a great read, Thanks for the link.

I got a question about chains. The one I just picked up came with 3/8LP that I am used to on my other small saws.

But what I am wondering have any of you guys ran .325 chains on your 200T saws. Could they pull it without problems? I have a bunch of .325 063 chains that were give to me and have nothing in 063 .325 to run them on. So I was thinking about trying it.

[Skwerl]

Nope. Too much hassle/expense finding sprockets and bars in order to use a few leftover chains. The chains aren't worth it.

And even if it only reduces usable power by 5-10%, are you really willing to give up that power to salvage some leftover chains that don't fit anyway?

[Cut4fun]

I see your point, but I got like 2 dozen stihl .325 chains new and used. Some even brand new and square filed .325.

[Skwerl]

Find another use for them or sell them on ebay. Why cripple your most important saw?

They'd be easier to find a use for if they were .050 gauge. Stihl is the only one using .063 gauge for the most part.

[Al Smith]

A bar and chain for a 200T is not that much .In fact if I'm not mistaken Baileys have them on sale right now .

Of course if you wanted a genuine super duper regulation Stihl bar and chain it would be a little higher . That is just a personal preference I suppose .

The Stihl most likely though would be of better quality .

[Skwerl]

Al, you missed the point entirely. Buying a .325" pitch, .063 gauge bar for a 200T may present a bit of a problem. Not to mention a .325 sprocket for a 200T. Then it will be geared too high because you can't get a 6 pin .325 sprocket anyway.



My sports car needs 14" tires and I have a stack of 15" truck tires here. Why don't I just use the tires I have and save some money?

[sotc]

thats what i run on all my saws from 260- 090, i dont break chains on the 200t unless i run the micro. im with brian

[squisher]

My sports car needs 14" tires and I have a stack of 15" truck tires here. Why don't I just use the tires I have and save some money?

No real sports car has 14" tires.:what:



:P:lol:

[Al Smith]

I stand corrected .Some how I thought he was referring just the standard 3/8 lo pro bar and chain set up .oops .

[Cut4fun]

Just in case anyone wants this info. The .325 drum and gear for oiler is easy to get. The .325 bars seem to be limitation and going from a 6T to a 7T. I didnt notice the gear changes first time I looked and thought about the switch.

13 1129 640 7100 1 Worm 3/8" Picco 6T
14 1129 640 7101 1 Worm 3/8" Picco 7T
15 1129 640 7102 1 Worm 1/4" 8T
16 1129 640 7105 1 Worm 0.325" 7T (2)
17 1123 648 6600 2 Bumper strip
18 9512 933 2270 1 Needle cage 10x13x13
19 1129 640 2000 1 Chain sprocket 3/8" Picco 6T
20 1129 640 2050 1 Set of spur sprocket/worm 3/8" Picco 7T
☐ 14
21 1129 640 2051 1 Set of spur sprocket/worm 1/4" 8T not for USA
☐ 15
1129 640 2052 1 Set of spur sprocket/worm 0.325" 7T (2)
☐ 16, 22
22 1129 640 2004 1 Chain sprocket 0.325" 7T (2)

[CurSedVoyce]

I say you don't fix what aint broke on the 200t. The chain and bar (I have a 16 on mine) gauge etc really work for the saw.

[Cut4fun]

Rocky Skwerl, Thank you for your post on the muffler removal. Piece of cake. never worked on one, but the little hints on what to do were dead on. Thanks.

Also this saw has the Zama S61D 435A, is that good or bad? it has had carb issues, but I tore into it today and adjusted the fulcrum ( I dont know how to spell that part) and chased every possible passage in the fuel system.
For right now A-OK.

But wont really know till I get it in some wood and right now it is snowing its ass off and I just finished plowing for the 2nd time today, because of drifting snow.

[Al Smith]

Also this saw has the Zama S61D 435A, is that good or bad? According "Lakeside " other wise known as Stihl Andy ,a certified Stihl tech on another site there have been issues on a number of Zama carbs .

Which is not to say your particular carb has issues . Stick it in the wood .If it doesn't fall on it's face after 10-15 minutes it's most likely OK .

[Cut4fun]

Which is not to say your particular carb has issues . Stick it in the wood .If it doesn't fall on it's face after 10-15 minutes it's most likely OK .


Thats what it was doing before. But I ain't going out in this to find out now.

It also wouldn't take fuel like a low side being to fat, but it wasn't, thats why I went inside to adjust the fulcrum. I have no clue, but it isn't falling on its face in the air now, just hope it dont when I put her in the wood.

Like you Al I am just trying to make sure it runs right stock before it gets the knife to make it run really good.

[Al Smith]

If the carb is cracked it may take a magnifying glass to see it .

[Skwerl]

If the carb doesn't work right after 1-2 attempts at rebuilding it, go buy a new one and be done with it. Carbs are about $65 and they are usually spot on straight out of the box, the lack of frustration is worth the cost.

[Cut4fun]

Would this happen to be the complete carb repair kit for the Zama carb I listed above? RB-69

I haven't even put a kit in it because I didnt have one on hand and just got this saw 2 days ago. but the little inside adjusting has it running fine for now. Just want to put a new kit in in because I dont have a clue how old this saw is.
Looks like it may need a new fuel line and filter during all of this too. Could see cracks in the bends of fuel line, but when I took it off and ran the silver round metal through it none of the cracks went all the way through. just a matter of time though IMO.

That muffler set up is a trip like you said inside.

[CurSedVoyce]

did you pressure test the fuel lines? sounds like if they are that cracked, it could be the issue.

[Cut4fun]

Redneck testing of lines. No leaks but see it in the near future needing replaced. non-issue right now.

[CurSedVoyce]

affirmative ;)

[hornett22]

i believe there were several different versions of that carb. an A,B,C etc.looks like yours was is an A.i'd update it if i were you.i did mine and it's been fine for more than 2 years now.

[Al Smith]

I think they are farther than the C series now .

As I said according to Andy "Stihl " they have had issues on all of them so just arbitrarily changing one won't solve much other than assure you had a new carb .

I do have to agree with B .Re kit the thing and make sure the set up is correct then if it falls on its' face find another one .

Something though you trimmer types have to remember is that Tree Trims saw and mine are not going to be a use it every day type saw but rather mini hot saws . Although at least mine will be built to be able to be used as a hot running trimmer if I do it correctly . If not ,I find some parts and do it over .It wouldn't be the first time .

It might sound silly to a few but it's just stuff some of us do .;)

[Cut4fun]

Al, do me a favor. If you still have that 200T with the cracked area, would you get your eye specs and magnifying glass out and see what all numbers and letters are on the side of the carb please. something like this S61D 435A
Is this the repair kit for the Zama carb I listed above? repair kit RB-69


I just went and cut some ice covered (good for the chain :O) frozen 10" poplar without any bogs. I still think I will order and put in the complete carb kit.

[MasterBlaster]

Does ice hurt a chain?

[Cut4fun]

It could just be me, but it sure seems to dull faster when cutting through the ice covered wood over and over.
My dad said he has experienced the same thing over the years cutting through ice.

[Al Smith]

Does ice hurt a chain? Frozen wood is about like cutting a rock except the chain doesn't get nicked it just dulls faster .

[MasterBlaster]

No shit? We don't get much ice here, so that's news to me.

[Al Smith]

The first time I experianced ice was last winter at about zero degrees in pin oak . I thought I had screwed the chain up sharpening it .So I re filed it ,didn't help .

I trotted out to the shed and pulled out one of the 125 Macs . Even that big old bruiser couldn't gnaw through it . I gave up and spent the afternoon on the puter .

[Al Smith]

The numbers on this defective carb are --S61A 138A .

I took another picture and drew a pencil mark over the crack to high light it .

[Al Smith]

I just thought of something else .Rocky J came up with this some time back which I had never thought of before .

On the throttle butterfly there is a notch which must align with the idle jet .If that butterfly for some reason gets turned on the shaft it won't run worth a hoot .

[Cut4fun]

The first time I experianced ice was last winter at about zero degrees in pin oak . I thought I had screwed the chain up sharpening it .So I re filed it ,didn't help .

I trotted out to the shed and pulled out one of the 125 Macs . Even that big old bruiser couldn't gnaw through it . I gave up and spent the afternoon on the puter .

Then that confirms what my dad was telling me and what I have experienced. Ice problem, frozen wood no biggie, but Ice covered frozen wood big problem with chains dulling.

Thanks for taking the time to post all the pics and links to past knowledge Al.

[Wagnaw]

I wonder if my 200t has one of those carbs? It always has had trouble idling and dieing out. You know... for instance, I'll need to pump the gas carefully to get it to run full throttle, when I let it idle (when it'll idle for more than 5 sec) the rpms seem to speed up, then it dies. :?

[Skwerl]

See? Many people don't even think about their saw not running right. They just accept it instead of adjusting the carb.

Andrew, no offense, you're just as normal as most other tree guys. But your saw should idle without stalling and accellerate without having to twiddle with the throttle. Sounds like it's running lean which will lead to premature failure if you continue running it like that. Either learn how to adjust the carb or hand it to somebody who can.

http://www.madsens1.com/saw%20carb%20tune.htm

[Wagnaw]

Dude, I've adjusted the carb, and It didn't help any. Definitely seemed to run lean, but adjusting it doesn't seem to help. The thought that keeps coming back is that gas may have sat in it too long and gummed it up. I bought it used, and I don't think they drained the gas out.

I just noticed the comments earlier about the possible bad carbs, so I thought I'd ask, ...maybe see if that was an associated prob.

[Skwerl]

Sorry, a bad assumption on my part.

Yes, running lean is a symptom of a bad carb. The last one I had I rebuilt it twice and it still ran lean. Bought a new carb and it ran perfect. I hate rebuilding carbs and it rarely works for me. It seems like they leak around the butterfly shaft or something, sucking in air.

[Al Smith]

I had heard but have no experiance with that changing the little Xama to a Walbro fixes a lot of problems .I think the 020T used a Walbro model WK .

In my tinkering ,when I get a chance ,I'll see what other model might fit those little 200T's .

[Cut4fun]

I had heard but have no experiance with that changing the little Xama to a Walbro fixes a lot of problems .I think the 020T used a Walbro model WK .

In my tinkering ,when I get a chance ,I'll see what other model might fit those little 200T's .


Al or anyone else in the know, is the 020's Walbro carbs a direct exchange or do the linkages have to be bent all to heck to get them to work? Just wondering is all......

[Al Smith]

I only assume they are a direct bolt in .I suppose though if that bent up wire gizmo linkage is the same stock number on both the 20 and the 200 they would fit .

Another thing that crossed my mine .A few years back I worked on a funky running 020T .I rebuilt the carb,some improvemnet .I then changed the crank side seal .Ran like a new one .As far as I know it's still in service .

What's odd though is I can't for the life of me remember exactly how that damned carb bolted in . Except for the fact that whatever I did on that 020T it took me half and hour to figure out how to disect the freaken thing . I've got the pics some place maybe that will jog my memory .:?

[Jonseredbred]

Maybe one of these will fix your problem??http://www.priceperf.com/images/lectoncarb.gif

[Al Smith]

You'd have to have 4 spark plugs to fire the amount of gas that thing would put out .

[Tzed250]

Maybe one of these will fix your problem??http://www.priceperf.com/images/lectoncarb.gif

Base volume might be a little small for that...

[top_notch]

Dude, I've adjusted the carb, and It didn't help any. Definitely seemed to run lean, but adjusting it doesn't seem to help. The thought that keeps coming back is that gas may have sat in it too long and gummed it up. I bought it used, and I don't think they drained the gas out.

I just noticed the comments earlier about the possible bad carbs, so I thought I'd ask, ...maybe see if that was an associated prob.

I'm in the same boat as you, once my saw gets warmed up it will idle for a few seconds then run lean and die. I have adjusted the carb many times and taken it places to have it adjusted. I have never taken my saw anywhere to have it torn down but I have taken it apart my self a few times and checked all of the rubber fittings and cleaned out the muffler. I also took the carb apart, and all of the gaskets and diphragm looked good. Maybe mine is the carb or one of the engine seals. I did blow air all around the saw while it was idling to look for air leaks (something I heard would show them) but it didn't affect the saws idle. Whats the best way to find out if the seals on the saw are leaking. Oh, some days the saw runs perfect all day, then the next day it is a PITA.:X

[Al Smith]

That saw I mentioned installing a seal in was an 020 av ,top handled version .It is different than a regular 020t or 200T in that it has a side mounted carb and a side exit exhaust . That saw used the Walbro carb .The 020T lists a Zama .

[Cut4fun]

Maybe one of these will fix your problem??

Naw I was thinking one of these or maybe just a HT :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/woodsjunkie/100_1744.jpg

[Skwerl]

top notch-
I'm fortunate in that I have three 200Ts so if I have issues like that then I can swap carbs with another saw. That will tell me immediately if it's the carb. New carbs are cheap compared to weeks of frustration. If a thorough disassembly and cleaning doesn't clear up the problem, I'll slap a new carb on it rather than fight it.

[CurSedVoyce]

Wasn't the tank vent (purge vent?) one of the problems on the 200t when it ran that way? Warmed up then issues? I seem to remember that from a previous discussion.. Also... I am really starting to wonder if that manifold (rubber that is the pain in the butt that I think Al just posted recent a quick way of dealing with it) if it gets a leak will lean out when warmed up and idle for shit. Sorry not trying to complicate things as we try to start out simple and progress from there. But it really sounds like you have covered the simple shat ..... :D

[Cut4fun]

I'm in the same boat as you, once my saw gets warmed up it will idle for a few seconds then run lean and die. I have adjusted the carb many times and taken it places to have it adjusted. I have never taken my saw anywhere to have it torn down but I have taken it apart my self a few times and checked all of the rubber fittings and cleaned out the muffler. I also took the carb apart, and all of the gaskets and diphragm looked good. Maybe mine is the carb or one of the engine seals. I did blow air all around the saw while it was idling to look for air leaks (something I heard would show them) but it didn't affect the saws idle. Whats the best way to find out if the seals on the saw are leaking. Oh, some days the saw runs perfect all day, then the next day it is a PITA.:X


Mine was acting similar that I just picked up.

That 200T I just got seemed to idle the same way as the one described above. When i had the carb tore down looking for problems I noticed the fulcrum thing that lifts the needle seat (excuse if wording isn't right) I noticed it was setting a little low I adjusted it up just a tad and just above even if holding a flat object across it. No more dieing at idle or stumbles when throttling from idle. Something to ponder and easy adjustment for 0 cost to try.

[Al Smith]

I noticed the fulcrum thing that lifts the needle seat (excuse if wording isn't right) Fuel lever .;)

[Wagnaw]

Hey ya'll always talk about taking off the "limiter caps" Could you elaborate a little more on that?

If I'm not mistaken, limiter caps keep you from adjusting the high end too much right? Do 200Ts have them, and would it be a good idea to remove them?

[Skwerl]

They are plastic caps that fit over the adjustment screws. There's a tab on one side so the screw is limited in travel, less than one full revolution total movement. your best bet is to shave off the tit on the side of the limiter cap so that it can turn a full 360 degrees. It's easiest to get to it by simply removing the carb from the saw first. Takes about 3 minutes.

[Dave Shepard]

That's what I did on the 036. If you don't put them back on, the needles will move/fall out.

[Al Smith]

Are the needle valves long enough to stick a spring under them .I don't know because all I've ever done was shave the tab off of a few of varied manufacture .

[Dave Shepard]

They stick out a ways, but I don't recall a head on them that would hold a spring. Also, they aren't a very tight tolerance fit, kinda wiggly, in my opinion.

[top_notch]

Mine was acting similar that I just picked up.

That 200T I just got seemed to idle the same way as the one described above. When i had the carb tore down looking for problems I noticed the fulcrum thing that lifts the needle seat (excuse if wording isn't right) I noticed it was setting a little low I adjusted it up just a tad and just above even if holding a flat object across it. No more dieing at idle or stumbles when throttling from idle. Something to ponder and easy adjustment for 0 cost to try.

I'll check that out. Last time I took the carb apart I remember a Philips head screw that I removed to get the needle valve out...Is this the part your talking about adjusting...the whole assembly is under the diaphragm? If it is the part how do you adjust it, if I remember correctly last time I took it out, the screw that held in the plate that held in fuel valve assembly was in pretty tight. It didn't seem to be an adjustment screw, just a tighten down all the way screw.

[Al Smith]

You have to bend the fuel lever to adjust it .

Too high the thing floods ,too low it starves for fuel .

In a manner of speaking a diaphragm carb is a type of mechanical fuel injecter .Sometimes a slightly stiff diaphragm can be corrected by setting the lever just a tad high ,sometimes not .

Basically all diaphragm carbs work the same no matter who made them . Tillotson 's web site has about the best tutorial on trouble shooting ,theory of operation etc . Take a peek when you have the time .

[Cut4fun]

Just putting this here in a safe place for reference later if the puter here crashes.

200 carbs used

S126
S128 Japan
S127
S129 Japan
S61E, C1Q-S61D
S108A, C1Q-S108 Japan
S96B C1Q-S96A
S109A C1Q-S109 Japan
S61D A B C

[Cut4fun]

Part #5 (stihl book calls it Inlet control lever, now I know ) is what I lifted or bended up just a tad to allow more fuel, the part that lifts on the center of the diaphragm. On the right side of it, just lift very carefully till it is just above even (NOT above even of the carb either) just alittle above even on both sides of the area around it. No need to unscrew anything, just remove carb top and diaphragm to get to it, leave rest in place. If you go to far it will flood it out.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/084S/200carb.jpg

[darkstar]

They are plastic caps that fit over the adjustment screws. There's a tab on one side so the screw is limited in travel, less than one full revolution total movement. your best bet is to shave off the tit on the side of the limiter cap so that it can turn a full 360 degrees. It's easiest to get to it by simply removing the carb from the saw first. Takes about 3 minutes.

Or you can just twist the crap out of it.
I suppose grinding off the tab is mo beta.
Three weeks three sprokets.
All husky's.
Things come in pairs plus.

[top_notch]

Part #5 (stihl book calls it Inlet control lever, now I know ) is what I lifted or bended up just a tad to allow more fuel, the part that lifts on the center of the diaphragm. On the right side of it, just lift very carefully till it is just above even (NOT above even of the carb either) just alittle above even on both sides of the area around it. No need to unscrew anything, just remove carb top and diaphragm to get to it, leave rest in place. If you go to far it will flood it out.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/084S/200carb.jpg

Thanks, I'll give it a shot.
:beerchug::beerchug:

[top_notch]

I bent the control lever up a little bit and it seemed to help. I didn't get a chance to do any work, just run the saw in front of my house for a little bit. The thing I did notice was if I turned the saw up side down it ran lean (enough to make the chain start moving), but it didn't shut off, which is good. Any ideas why it would run lean up side down, and run fine right side up?

[Skwerl]

Either a crank seal starting to leak or a bad carb. I've had a couple bad carbs that acted EXACTLY like a crank seal leak but slap a new carb on there and they ran perfect.

Last carb I got for a 200T was about $65 I think. Make sure you get the older style with both jets adjustable. Stihl tried putting fixed jet carbs on the 200T for a couple years and they caused a bunch of saws to burn up. I think the newest ones have both jets adjustable but the main jet may be smaller.

I'll try to remember to call my local dealer next week and ask him. He knew exactly which carb to give me for the 200T and kept a few in stock.

[top_notch]

Either a crank seal starting to leak or a bad carb. I've had a couple bad carbs that acted EXACTLY like a crank seal leak but slap a new carb on there and they ran perfect.

Last carb I got for a 200T was about $65 I think. Make sure you get the older style with both jets adjustable. Stihl tried putting fixed jet carbs on the 200T for a couple years and they caused a bunch of saws to burn up. I think the newest ones have both jets adjustable but the main jet may be smaller.

I'll try to remember to call my local dealer next week and ask him. He knew exactly which carb to give me for the 200T and kept a few in stock.

I'd appreciate it if you made that call, I don't have a dealer that I go to regularly or one that I trust. If my problem is the crank seal is it hard to replace, and can I tell if it's bad by looking at it?

[Skwerl]

I hate to admit it but I've never replaced a crank seal. Supposedly they aren't hard though. You can check for a leaking seal by spraying carb cleaner or wd-40 or something on the crank seal while the saw is running. If it's sucking air then the rpms will change when the spray hits the leak. The sprocket side is relatively easy to check since you can pull all that stuff off. The flywheel side is a bit tougher. ;)

[Cut4fun]

I made sure mine didn't do as top notch described even before fixing it. Mine didn't do it before or after the fix.

[Al Smith]

The easiest way I have to found to change a seal is by using a drywall screw as a puller . Just take a sharp punch or ice pick and poke a little hole through the metal part then screw about one thread of the screw in .Get out your Hillybilly socket set ,commonly known as Channel lock pliers and pull it out .

Oil the inside of the new seal and tap it in place with a long socket .Drive it in straight .

[Skwerl]

And like Al, you want to keep your work area as clean and sterile as possible to avoid getting dirt inside the motor.
:P :lol:

[Al Smith]

:lol: One of my many short commngs .:lol:

[Al Smith]

Well it got above zero out so I took the baby Stihl for a test drive .Sounds like I need to re kit the itty little carb too . Cuts like a scalded ape--for about 20 seconds . Typical stiff diaphragm syndrome . Restart ,runs another 20 at wide open ,forever at half throttle . Could be a funky carb but I doubt it .

I have 18 kits coming the first of the week with three for this carb . .

[Cut4fun]

Al I ordered a Zama RB 69 complete repair kit from www.Mowers4u.com for $9.48 and had it in 3 days. Just a Diaphragm kit was $4.

[Al Smith]

I think I ordered those kits Fri .from MFG supply .Monday is MLK day I should get them Tues I suppose . They were short some and called back they wouldn't be in for a couple of weeks .Tilley HL's I think .

I have a couple of those microscopic sized Zamas to fix besides the 200 .

Lawdy that thing is about the size that would go on a pizz ants motor scooter .:lol:

[Al Smith]

Son of a Bisquick . Little did I know those dang C1 dinky Zama carbs have about 40-11 different models . One would think they would be like Walbro or Tillotson where for example an HS is an HS not some special model .Not Zama .

Damnit now I get to order more carb kits because the ones that came yesterday are not correct .:( mumble ,grumble .

[Cut4fun]

Which carb kit Al did you get and for which carb?

I got RD 69 complete repair kit for the S61 Zama.
I haven't installed it yet to see if I got the right one either. But the person at the shop said it was the one.

Here are others.
S126
S128 Japan
S127
S129 Japan
S61E, C1Q-S61D
S108A, C1Q-S108 Japan
S96B C1Q-S96A
S109A C1Q-S109 Japan
S61D A B C

[Skwerl]

Guy at the saw shop yesterday told me the s126 was the carb I wanted if I had to replace one on a 200T. The Stihl number is
1129 120 0653.

[Al Smith]

It was entirely my fault for not paying attention .I assumed a C1 kit would fit everything ,not so .

The 200T carb is a model C1Q s32 which does take an rb-69 kit . The other dinky carb was for an Echo hedge trimmer with a model C1 U -k27B carb .

Good heavens there must 50 variations of this carb and a dozen different kits .

The 200 T carb is a giant compaired to the Echo trimmer . . What I did learn was a letter s designates Stihl --K for Echo etc . .

Just for laughs after I pack in some firewood I have an HU Tilley from an 029 I'm going to see about if it might be adapted . I'll get the correct kit though soon for the Zama .

[Al Smith]

It was an HT Walbro but to fit it would be a pain the rear .

However low and behold in all my junk danged if I didn't find a good diaphragm for the Zama .

Hot dang old Al is in the 200 T club with a runner and a fine one it is .:D

[CurSedVoyce]

Way to go Al:thumbup::blob5::big-dance2::beerchug:

[top_notch]

I did a small job a couple days ago and my 200 did awesome. Adjusting the fuel lever in the carb did the trick. It's not running lean when I flip the saw over anymore:lol: The only thing is it starts on the third pull most of the time instead of the first one like it used to. I'll take this over not idling worth a damn anyday8) Now I wish there was more work around here.:(

[Al Smith]

Without seeing that thing my guess is the diaphragm is starting to get stiff . As such the movement of the diaphragm is resticted and doesn't fill the chamber completely .

Raising the lever compensates for this somewhat .However it might not be a bad idea to rekit that thing when you get a chance .

A few of my antiques need new diaphrams of which I have to admit I've raised the levers also to buy time .However they don't run quite as well as they are capable of . Ha,I've got the kits, just don't feel like freezing my butt off at the moment to install them .

Oh ,if you rekit that thing bend the lever back down where it's supposed to be else the damned thing will flood causing you to mutter obscene words once again .;)

[top_notch]

Thanks for the advice, I'll probably just run it as is until it starts to piss me off again, honestly, I'm ecstatic that it idles and accelerates as good as it does right now.

[woodworkingboy]

Anyone recently purchase a new carb for a MS200? I'm looking for a Zama CQ1 s126, the one Brian mentioned in this thread a few years ago. I need it for a rear handled 020, but I believe both the MS 200 rear handle and the top handle, and the 020 rear and top, all use the same carb. It doesn't seem to be available here, and it might be discontinued. The s126 doesn't have the accelerator pump, I believe. What is the preferred carb that is available now?

Thanks.

[Al Smith]

Have you tried sealing around the welch plug in the diaphragm fuel chamber with red Loctite ?