Random PHC Thread

[TC3]

Hey ! There's so many times I have a plant health care question / comment & don't really want to start a whole thread for it, & thought a random thread might be cool.
Question : Has anybody here ever hedgetrimmed a Tinosha Pine... or any pine ? I hand pruned / shaped one yesterday, cutting through needles wherever I needed to in order to achieve the look I was after, and now I'm having second thoughts. Is the whole thing gonna brown out ???
Comment : I had the pleasure of meeting Tom Lepping, an old timer with a b'zillion years experience in arborculture. On the subject of planting trees, he had a simple statement that I love & use now : "There is a difference between a tree surviving and a tree thriving. We have to do our best with the knowledge we have to help trees thrive."

[Tom_Scheller]

Hey T,

I've done white pines. They make a cool hedge, but only if you start before you get to the size you want and take it slow over a few years. Kinda just let it fill in the holes. Pine doesn't grow from brown wood, so if you cut to the brown, that's how it will stay. Just like other overgrown evergreen hedges, if it's overgrown it's almost better to just start over.

TS

[Wagnaw]

First time I hedge pruned pine, I screwed up royally. I'd say the most important aspect is to not take too much off, especially at first. Pine hedges are one of those that really need to be started when they're much smaller than the eventual desired size. That way you can train the growth to really fill in on the outside, and you don't have to take off more than a year or two worth of growth at any one time.

[TC3]

Question : Can Grub-Ex be used around the base of shrubs to combat insects ? One of my customers told me this, and after reading the main ingredient is Imidicloprid, I start to wonder if he's right ? A systemic pesticide would be the answer to a lot of insects ?

[TC3]

I've encountered some gi-nor-mous girdling roots this season & have chickened out of 2 jobs with them because I worry about sending a tree into decline. Where / how can I learn more about root pruning ?

[Brian]

Question : Can Grub-Ex be used around the base of shrubs to combat insects ? One of my customers told me this, and after reading the main ingredient is Imidicloprid, I start to wonder if he's right ? A systemic pesticide would be the answer to a lot of insects ?


I have had luck controling Birch Leaf Miner utilizing that methodology. It was a weeping birch though.

[Thor's Hammer]

Pizza.

[Husky385]

I've encountered some gi-nor-mous girdling roots this season & have chickened out of 2 jobs with them because I worry about sending a tree into decline. Where / how can I learn more about root pruning ?

I'm not so sure girdling roots are such a problem as people make out, just my thoughts..

[TC3]

I had a customer yesterday who said her Locust tree has never produced pods before this year & she's been living in the same house for 15 yrs. ?
Is she right or unobservant ?

[Blinky]

I don't know much about locust trees but it seems like it would be really hard to miss all those pods... down here, with honey locust at least, they rain pods everywhere. Most people think they're a nuisance.

[darkstar]

They , the honey locust , are deffinatly a nuisance.
I cut down about 10 a week in my own yard and they just keep growing back and fast to

[Paul B]

NSFW Language warning.
$hit moths....

:D
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OEvjV1jtvl4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OEvjV1jtvl4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Paul B]

did a little research today on BtK, the caterpiller spray, check out this clip from the Wiki page:

"B. thuringiensis is closely related to B. cereus, a soil bacterium, and B. anthracis, the cause of anthrax: the three organisms differ mainly in their plasmids. Like other members of the genus, all three are aerobes capable of producing endospores.[1]"

closely related to anthrax? hmm, wonder just how close...

[TC3]

Kinda wild, ey Paul ?

Question : Has anybody used aerator (sp.?) tubes with success ? I'm trying to save 2 newly planted weeping Beech that are drowning from a newly installed irrigation system that went haywire. The trees are extremely stressed. I'd be inclined to dig them up, but they're not my project... plus there's already a granite path installed around each one... ugh. Any suggestions ?

[treelooker]

Increase drainage by deeply fracturing soil.

A+ on spelling.

[wiltingoak]

Ditto.

I've used a five-foot 1" auger bit with my rechargeable Milwuakee 1/2" chuck drill.

Perforated a shitload of holes down past the rootballs in newly installed yearlings and apparently punctured the clay strata that was holding-up the percolating I had expected.

While it may not correct it in all cases or soils - it's a cheap start to eliminate the problem one step at a time.

I back-filled the bores with rotten granite (just gravel).

Black willows, Bur oaks, and pecans.

[TC3]

A customer recently asked me if I knew why her hydrangeas didn't bloom this year. I've read articles about it but have forgotten ?
I know that ph levels in the soil can affect color... but then I go blank. LOL :|:

[Paul B]

likely timing of pruning.

[TC3]

... late spring, leave the old growth, si ? I'll ask them if they pruned too early. Thnx.

[Paul B]

dunno, thats what I have always been told too but last year, after pruning a clients hydrangeas for years in like late Feb and having her compain they dont flower much, we did them in November, she says she had tons of blooms this year, go figure.

[Knotahippie]

I had a customer yesterday who said her Locust tree has never produced pods before this year & she's been living in the same house for 15 yrs. ?
Is she right or unobservant ?

Iv'e heard of some Honey Locusts that are podless or nearly podless.

[Knotahippie]

Question : Can Grub-Ex be used around the base of shrubs to combat insects ? One of my customers told me this, and after reading the main ingredient is Imidicloprid, I start to wonder if he's right ? A systemic pesticide would be the answer to a lot of insects ?

Iv'e read some not so good things about imidacloprid, affects bees and probably alot of other benificials adversely. Benificials tend to be lower in numbers than pests and harming them may make problems worse. Alot of insectisides may be bad for wildlife or groundwater supplys too.

With insects or other biotic problems seems like competition is good. For some grubs/pests BT is recommended. Iv'e composted alot of unhealthy lawns with grub issues. The compost clears em' right up, I don't know if it's bacteria or what but it works pretty good.

[TC3]

Iv'e composted alot of unhealthy lawns with grub issues. The compost clears em' right up, I don't know if it's bacteria or what but it works pretty good.
That's pretty cool, hippieguy. I'm (finally) learning more about organic approaches to probs.
I think bacteria has a lot to do with soil problems. Healthy bacteria.
Deva mentioned (in his Presideo Montage thread) that the area they're working is like a dust bowl. I find this type of super-fine dusty / silty crap under trees that have been planted in the burlap bag they were shipped in. The word 'sterile' doesn't begin to describe it. It's hardly even soil ?
High salt content is another huge problem for our area, and another challenge for urban forestry. Fascinating to me !
Do you store your compost tea, or make fresh batches of it as & when needed ?
Can alleleopathic (sp.?) chemicals leech into the tea & be a prob ?

[Knotahippie]

That's pretty cool, hippieguy. I'm (finally) learning more about organic approaches to probs.
I think bacteria has a lot to do with soil problems. Healthy bacteria.
Deva mentioned (in his Presideo Montage thread) that the area they're working is like a dust bowl. I find this type of super-fine dusty / silty crap under trees that have been planted in the burlap bag they were shipped in. The word 'sterile' doesn't begin to describe it. It's hardly even soil ?
High salt content is another huge problem for our area, and another challenge for urban forestry. Fascinating to me !
Do you store your compost tea, or make fresh batches of it as & when needed ?
Can alleleopathic (sp.?) chemicals leech into the tea & be a prob ?


Sounds like a texture problem at Presidio.

Have you heard of sugar for salt damage?

I make tea in fresh batches, tends to go sour and when it does you don't want to be anywhere near it:D.

Never had a prob. with allelopathy but I make sure to compost the heck out of the chips. I try not to use Euc, Walnut, Cedar. although I've heard it doesn't matter much.

I've seen Cedar chips used in Tx. with no problems. So far Iv'e only killed stuff (my own plants) with euc.chips...

[hmm]

A customer recently asked me if I knew why her hydrangeas didn't bloom this year. I've read articles about it but have forgotten ?
I know that ph levels in the soil can affect color... but then I go blank. LOL :|:


I like this site.
http://www.hydrangeashydrangeas.com/wont_bloom.html

last year I had a full bloom this year mine only got three blooms, no pruning at all - so go figure.

[treelooker]

"Have you heard of sugar for salt damage?"

yup, cool concept.

"Never had a prob. with allelopathy but I make sure to compost the heck out of the chips."

Allelopathy can be good. Rosaceous chips can be fungistatic.

[CurSedVoyce]

I add my chips to worms ... Rob started worms a year or so ago.. Lil buggers make great compost and multiply double in 90 days. We feed them everything ... I also load them up wiht rakings of pine needles and oak leaves.... Lil buggers reduce the piles by 50 percent in about a month... by calculations ... we should have over a million worms workin in the pile now.. I would assume that good bacteria is present and the compost is like gold with castings... I don't know if that would be applicable to the situation, but would be interesting to try as would the sugar...

[TC3]

Good call, Cursed. Worms ! I've worked properties that have tons o' worms. Harvesting some of them would beat purchasing, not 'cause I'm cheap but because they're better worms... small but strong buggers ! Would they winter over alright if I sunk a plastic tub in the back yard ? >>> one of those big storage bins ? Wonder how deep it'd have to be ?
My next project !!!
P.S. Thanks for the link on hydrangeas, hmm. I think we did have a late freeze here this year, could've been it, ey ?

[Knotahippie]

I add my chips to worms ... Rob started worms a year or so ago.. Lil buggers make great compost and multiply double in 90 days. We feed them everything ... I also load them up wiht rakings of pine needles and oak leaves.... Lil buggers reduce the piles by 50 percent in about a month... by calculations ... we should have over a million worms workin in the pile now.. I would assume that good bacteria is present and the compost is like gold with castings... I don't know if that would be applicable to the situation, but would be interesting to try as would the sugar...


That stuff is gold...we got a ton of worms in our chip pile too. I use the stuff at the bottom for all the plants at the house here. Never need fertilizer and bugs seem to leave the plants alone.

I use it on rescue trees that we bring back to the shop, stuff does wonders.

Not to get too off track, how does the sugar help against salt damage? Is just extra avail. carbohydrate? I always wondered.

Did a job where a water softening sys. sprung a leak over the years. I remember reading a salt damage PDF a few years back...We leached the hell out of it, put about 15 lbs. of white sugar down and mulched it. By the next spring the foliage was perfect. Leaching or sugar or both?

[Knotahippie]

Allelopathy can be good. Rosaceous chips can be fungistatic.

Cool stuff, never heard about Rosaceous chips...

[treelooker]

Cool stuff, never heard about Rosaceous chips...

chips made from trees in the Rosaceae family, like apple, hawthorn, cherry etc.

[Knotahippie]

chips made from trees in the Rosaceae family, like apple, hawthorn, cherry etc.

Could these be bad for good fungus/trees, like say a native oak in grasslands?

I've heard of using same species chips for trees, is this a big concern?

[TC3]

chips made from trees in the Rosaceae family, like apple, hawthorn, cherry etc.
... and Mountain Ash, no ? It got me to wondering (I'm a pain in the arse, yes!)... can bacterial blight leech into tea ?

[Knotahippie]

... and Mountain Ash, no ? It got me to wondering (I'm a pain in the arse, yes!)... can bacterial blight leech into tea ?


I use chlorinated water, I hope that kills everything?

I've read that composting properly takes care of alot of disease pathogens.

[TC3]

Not to switch gears here, but this is the "random" PHC thread...
I wrote my first official tree evaluation report this past August ($256, 4 hrs. invested, thank you) and it was not at all the gratifying experience I had hoped for.
The ultra-condensed version :
Neighbor 'B' (my client) was sueing neighbor 'C' for building a dike along the property line. It was holding back water from flooding neighbor 'C', but drowning the trees on the property of neighbor 'B'.
My report was the deciding factor and neighbor 'B' won a big court case. Neighbor 'C' has to remove the 10k stone wall, plus a shitload of extra costs. Neighbor 'A', (not mentioned up until now) was never brought into the equation, but it was really their fault for the whole frikkin' mess.
It was a very high dollar hood, and part of my research revealed to me that it was mostly political... that they ultimately could've given 2 shits about the trees.
Weird first experience... and now I know.

[Paul B]

I have done a few valuation reports, mostly for insurance tho, not too many neighbor disputes. My faves are the ones for strata complexes and such, walk the site and do a basic evaluation of each tree over a certain DBH. takes time, time = money :)

[TC3]

For plants, shrubs & trees that are close to the road and subject to salt spray, would you choose burlap wrap (or some similar type of barrier) or a spray of WiltPruf (or some similar product) ???

[Paul B]

maybe both? :) and a good watering come spring to leach the yuck away.

[TC3]

I'm having a problem with my pruners that is driving me CRAZY ! There's a "clunking" noise / feel to them, & I've adjusted & tweaked them 'til I am ready to throw them OUT.
Replaced anvil, new blade. Still the 'clunk' ???
Adjust blade, tighten, loosen, take apart, reaasemble.
Swear, plead, medicate...
WTH ?
P.S. These are my second pair, my first being used exclusively for root pruning.

[Paul B]

maybe a burr on the blade or anvil, or... the spring might be rusted. :)
take them apart completely, clean, oil, inspect each part. I do that about every 6 months with my felco's.

[thattreeguy]

talk about a random thread..
cool lil tidbits of knowledge

[sotc]

maybe the heads loose on the pole?

[Paul B]

I assumed they are hand pruners or secateurs sotc, TC mentioned she is using them for root pruning. :)

[sotc]

ohhhhhhh:dur:

[TC3]

Finally figured out the pruner prob >>> the lock mechanism was loose, causing the backside of it to swing into the hand grip. Reach out / down to prune... "clunk" ! Lift pruners up & look, lock mechanism swung back into place. Sneaky bugger !!!

New question : Is there a web site that's good for learning about (natural) needle drop in pine & spruce ? 2 yr., 4 yr. etc. ?
I use this web site, & it's good... but no info on needle drop cycles.
http://forestry.about.com/library/tree/blredp.htm

[Knotahippie]

Had a pretty cool PHC book last year, University CA somthin'?

Gone now, who knows what happened to it, was a good book.

I used this site for reference recently.

http://www.tein.net/~msufergus/Ag/Trees/Fall%20Conifer%20Needle%20Loss.pdf

Yer' Local Extension Office got anything?

I'd be interested in some better info too, other than what I remember...LOL.

[CurSedVoyce]

Me 3 .. I have pines browning everywhere up here. I know a borer tree mostly when I see it. But we are seeing different types of browning here and people are asking. And I am trying really hard ot answer with good research or referrals.. Heck I referred Steve to two of them.

[sotc]

western pine gall? were seeing that around here this year

[CurSedVoyce]

have not seen the obvious signs of it and it may be cause we have been so dry in the last few years. Dunno... I have to yet climb one pine to see more. I will be checking for it also (gall).

[TC3]

I heard recently that a job I did 3 years ago failed miserably. Root flare exposure on 12 large White Pine.
All dead.
That sux mightily, and I'm embarrassed.
Justin (Stumper) suggested that I go at them in segments, but it was after the fact. The deed was done.
They went with another tree co. >>> a suckier tree co. but hey ?
I'm bummed.

[CurSedVoyce]

God I would hate that. So far I have killed only what the customer insisted I do under my advise not to. Manzanita mostly.
Now ugly is another story.... LMAO