Mud Truck Thread! [Archive] - The #1 HARDCORE arborist forum, bar, and grill

lumberjack

07-08-2008, 12:03 AM

I was going to put this in Gary's thread, but I figured I will have questions and whatknot, didn't want to detract from the road truck's valor.

Gary's thread revived my interest in getting my first truck back up and at it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/IMG_0085.jpg

Back when I quit the truck I spent the summer rebuilding a 14 bolt rear end to replace the 10 bolt that finally crapped out (broke an axle twice, then broke the carrier). I finally got the axle under the truck, fresh disc brakes and all only for the tranny (700R4) to crap out.

Flash forward 4 years!

Today I got on cutting out the cats in the 1 ton, got one out and the pipe in, will finish the other tomorrow morning. On a quest for better mileage.

I got to thinking about it, if I rebuilt the transmission on the old truck I'm out 800-900 bucks and I'm still stuck with the 208 transfer case, rear slip yoke, and a friggin automatic (not mud wompin/towing/hell raising friendly).

I looked on our favorite site and found a lovely combo, wrong bell housing, but that's fairly cheap to swap out. I found an Advanced Adapters 27% overdrive unit mated to a SM465 tranny, followed by a sync'ed (rare, allows for shift on the fly) 205 transfer case. The transmission and case have been rebuilt, and neither them nor the OD have any miles on them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/4f16_1.jpg

This is fairly close to my "dream" setup from back in high school. I'd want to twin stick the 205 (allows shifting the axles independently from high to low, fairly easy) and the only other thing I wanted was a 203/205 doubler kit to allow for a wide selection of gearing. (106:1-3:1 21 foward gears, 8 reverse)

It's a few hours north of St Louis, I'm checking to see if it could be made to fit in the Civic's trunk as he won't ship :lol:.

I know I'll need new drive shafts, but to get the tranny mated up to my current 305 engine (and be able to later swap to a 350) and get the yokes spinning I would need:

Small Block bell housing >$150
Pilot Bearing >$20
Flywheel >$100
Clutch Kit >$200
Hydro Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder/ Hydro Throwout >$>200 I'm guessing?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260249971754&ih=016&category=33732&_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DK%252BD%26otn%3D3%26p o%3DOp2%26ps%3D5 looks like it would handle the flywheel/clutch issue, still leaving the throwout to be handled. I figure I could find this locally for a same or better deal.

What am I missing?

Before the truck was ready to go after the trany swap I'd need at least:
Swap 10bolt to 8 lug or better replace with Dana 60
Drive shafts
16" Wheels/tires

It might be a long row to hoe between school and work, but I figure it'll be fun assuming I finally get done and have my truck built how I, ME, CARL wants it done.

Dad of course is being his usual ass of a self when it comes to playing with the truck. He is the same person who paid $2k to have the 305 rebuilt by some dude his friend knew. Dude had the truck for 3 months (part timer) and ended up forgetting to torque down the oil pan (oil leaked from rear seal, nothing too serious but dangit boy!). He could have had a fresh 350 dropped in for the same or less money, in under a week and been better off.

Anywho, since I had to endure a short lecture from him tonight when I was just trying to make sure I was thinking the clutch through, I'm bouncing my ideas off ya'll and am not going to be talking with him about it anymore.

:D

Al Smith

07-08-2008, 12:57 AM

Oh Lawdy if you mention mud and trucks in the same sentence it reminds me of how many times I've been mired in .I've stuck anything that is possible to stick including a few dozers .

Enjoy yourself but mud and Al Smith don't fit in the same sentence .;)

stehansen

07-08-2008, 01:43 AM

Al, I used to have an old aircraft carrier arrestor cable to pull out the caterpillars. That way you could be a couple of hundred feet away on solid ground with the other cat.

MasterBlaster

07-08-2008, 08:42 AM

How did you handle that heavy sucker???

lumberjack

07-08-2008, 09:13 AM

Something we would do is use a length of chain and put a tire between two of the lengths.

The bead holds the rubber from flying appart, the rubber acts like a big shock absorber.

While the truck will be built with the premise of playing in the mud (it's what we got around here) the idea is to keep it versital and quasi practical to serve as a backup for my 1 ton, or for a truck to run errands in.

Al Smith

07-08-2008, 09:42 AM

Not a derail but you can't talk about mud-runner trucks without mentioning the fact they do get stuck,I mean really stuck .

A big giant snatch strap works pretty good even better than a tire .You change all that potential energy to kinetic when you reach the end of the elasticity in those things .

I once,believe it or not shook loose a 4 wheel drive F-250 ,trailer and all with a Ranger using a chunk of one inch 3 stand nylon . On the other hand I've pulled steel cables in two with a dozer and broken numerious chains .Once a 3/4" on the back of a D7 pulling a twin engine pan scraper .:O I couldn't push the damned thing because the Cat had an angled Rome clearing blade on it at the time .

Frans

07-08-2008, 09:46 AM

Something we would do is use a length of chain and put a tire between two of the lengths.

HA! That is a little known trick which works great! I have been able to yank out a fully loaded chip truck with a small ford 2x2 ranger doing that.
Didn't know that anyone else knew about that trick.

Works like a rubber band. Accelerate, hit the end of the cable/chain and POP! the stuck truck leaps out of the hole.
Yanking with a straight cable, the puller truck hits the end of the cable and comes to an abrupt stop with just a little bit of yank which rocks the wheels of the stuck truck.
:thumbup:

Each fall or spring Frans gets stuck at least once. One of the major life goals I have is to NOT get stuck, but somehow...it always happens.

lumberjack

07-08-2008, 10:09 AM

In talking with the seller it seems that all chevy bell housings are the same, differences in the clutch/ect.

He's measuring to see if it can be disassembled and fit into my trunk.

stehansen

07-08-2008, 12:18 PM

How did you handle that heavy sucker???

Drag it with the pickup to the field. Then you pull it from the middle with the rescue tractor as close as you dare to the stuck tractor. Then you would need several guys to get one end of it over to the stuck tractor. That was the worst part of it was that it was so heavy and stiff. Once we didn't have help so we put a rope from the rescue tractor to the stuck tractor, around the drawbar pin of the stuck tractor and then back to the cable and pulled it up that way. Like pulling your climbing line into place with some zing it. We were farming riverbottom ground and after a flood we would go in and scratch the surface of the ground up before the weeds started growing. Then plant a crop of lima beans into the flood moisture. The cable belonged to our landlord and I left it down there when I left the place. Probably sitting in the weeds now.

sawinredneck

07-08-2008, 09:06 PM

Yes Carl, all Chevy's use the same bolt pattern, it's the flywheel diameter that can get you.Sometimes the clutch depth can be a problem, but not often.
Switching over to a manual is a PITA! I would go with as much stock linkage as you can, parts availability and they are bullet proof. Hyd. clutches are nice for daily drivers, but this thing will need some beef.
Loose the Dana 44 front as soon as you can and get a 60 to replace it, stick with the 14 bolt on the back, you can't break them.
You will need new brake lines with the axle switch, trust me, just buy them.
A solid locker in the rear isn't a bad thing, but look at the "Tru trac" or simialer for the front. I like the Tru trac because it's gears, no discs.
You will also need new wheels and tires with the axle swap, I like 16" better than the 16.5" because the bead lock on the smaller ones works better. Then gears front and rear, 4:10 up to 36", anything above that, well..............
You do all of that, well................... Then we have a new can of worms.

I would seriously encourage you to look for a turbo 400 with a matched T-case, but thats me. You want to go mudding, not rock crawling the extra t-case is just another part to break. And you will be breaking LOTS of parts!
That 305 won't move that truck, much less move the tires fast enough to clean them for traction.

Skwerl

07-08-2008, 09:11 PM

sawinredneck

07-08-2008, 09:18 PM

Carl, for all that work and money, why not just buy a 3/4 ton truck? Pickups are cheap right now and it sounds like you're planning on spending a huge amount of time and money building up that little truck into something it isn't. Most likely you would be better off starting out with something closer to your ideal truck.

You are right Brian, but he is young. This truck has memories and means something to him, remeber that years ago?:lol:

Either way, i's going to cost a fortune to build, and twelve more fortunes to keep running.
Not sure how I would know anything about it:?

lumberjack

07-08-2008, 10:57 PM

I'm leaning towards a hydro throwout bearing, no hole for mud or sediment heavy water to get in and trash the clutch.

Regarding the extra T case, I don't see it breaking anytime soon, an all gear 2 speed gear box is more bomber (for it's application) than the 465 in front of it. The extra reduction feeds into an even stronger, all gear 205 reduction/transfer case. The end engine is a 350 or 383, under 450ft-lb of torque, no nitrous, 87 octane friendly.

I want to be able to get around town, hill climb, get through the mud (not a flogger, but a well equipped all terrain truck). Having the ability to split gears with the 27% OD and split them again with the 205's sync'd 1.96:1 (effectively a 43% under drive.)

The current 14 bolt has 4:10's, there is a carrier break between them and the 4:56's. The 43% under drive gives me the option to make the stronger 4.10 gears into an effective 5.86:1, with the ability to get the engine's RPM's back down for better high speed economy.

Re the 305, even with the 2:73 (not a typo) gears the truck came with, the 305 would gleefully spin all four 31" Mud Kings in 4lo (2.6:1, a most terrible 29:1 "craw" ratio)

Brian, it is my ideal truck, although I'm not fond of the colour. Money wise it should be a one time investment for the most part, and I don't see the cost getting to "crazy" considering what the end result would be, the pride I will have in it, and the good times I've had and will have in it. Lord, the rifle I traded for the dump trailer cost $5600 to build. I'm getting the rifle back, which was the main condition of the trade. I bought that rifle in 06, finished it in 08, but never for more than two weeks was it unserviceable. Another personal benefit would be finishing something I started the summer of 2003.

GASoline71

07-08-2008, 11:14 PM

Try to find an NP205 transfer case. They are a tad on the heavy side, but are gear driven (not chain driven) and are frickin' bulletproof.

Gary

lumberjack

07-08-2008, 11:22 PM

Gary, it's already got a 205 ;).

The only thing the 203 is for is it's gear driven reduction gearset. The 203's gear box/adapter goes where the black adapter is between the tranny and the 205, it will increase the length slightly, but not drastically. If I could get the drive shafts identical in length and configuration, that would be a nice touch as well.

Al Smith

07-09-2008, 12:11 AM

Carl, for all that work and money, why not just buy a 3/4 ton truck? Pickups are cheap right now .---and I believe by fall or winter they will be cheaper .All those "cowboy limosines " will get traded for puddle jumpers .Most that are fairly new are cherries too .The only thing they've ever hauled were a set of golf clubs .

On the other hand a mudrunner or hot rod truck is a fun project .You can't put a price on that .;)

GASoline71

07-09-2008, 12:41 PM

sawinredneck

07-09-2008, 04:14 PM

lumberjack

07-09-2008, 09:05 PM

The planned tire size is 42x15x16 although if the suspension/drive shafts work out like planned I'll be able to run anything from a 31 to a 54, although the speedometer will be off. I figure after the tear down/cleanup the front axle will be the first "big" thing to get, along with the suspension worked out front and rear. Now I have a rolling, reinforced, clean chassis. Now I can finalize which engine and start saving for it while I build the cross members/skid plates for the tranny in the approx correct position and get the drive shafts on the way. Now I have the money for the engine, it goes in and I have a powered chassis. Buy some smaller "street" tires (cheap) while I finalize the "big" tire size. If the suspension works out I'll be able to run nearly anything in diameter from 10-20" wide, although it'd require a wheel with the correct backspacing. While I'm saving up for the big tires/wheels I'll have a fun "normal" truck that's a huge sleeper. Put in/on the roll cage, bumpers, sliders, interior, ect now, if I haven't already while I start getting the body straightened back out and getting ready for it's paint. Spray the paint, flip a switch, throw on the "big" tires and I'm ready to romp.

That's hugely tentative, but it's a general outline of what I'd like. I've already got the bags for the suspension, had them for 7 years or so. I believe 14" of travel, 7-7500lbs capacity at 100 psi, from Firestone. Even have two spares. The theory on the suspension (rear at least) is to run them on a caviler arm to increase the loading on them by setting them at a mechanical disadvantage for greater axle movement. The front is where it will get tricky. Anywho, this is just a theory, we'll see what happens in the end.
Regarding the gearing, my intent is to stick with the stronger 4.10's I already have and take advantage of the OD and UD units that are already going to be there. Using those three things I can vary my effective rear end ratio from 2.99-4.10-5.98-8.2. I'm planning on at least a healthy 350 if not a 383. I figure 4.10's will be fine, but the other ratios will cost me nothing. I'm planning on an Arb locker for the front and rear.

Got the truck home and the skin washed today. Still need to clean the undercarriage, bed, and engine compartment before it goes in the shop.

This is mainly for me, but feel free to comment. All these engines are dressed out the same with the exception of the first and next to last lacking an intake. I need to see what kinds of torque I'll be getting with each and use that to help plan the engine choice.

$2659
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/HO350.jpg
$4180
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/HT383.jpg
$5288
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/HO454.jpg
$5508
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/HT502.jpg
$6052
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/HO502.jpg

sawinredneck

07-09-2008, 10:16 PM

I like $5288, tourqe is youre freind!

lumberjack

07-09-2008, 10:19 PM

That's the HO454 :)

A slight snag with a big block would be chasing down new bracketry for the accessories.

sawinredneck

07-09-2008, 10:23 PM

That's the HO454 :)

A slight snag with a big block would be chasing down new bracketry for the accessories.

Yeah, but it's a niceeven tourqe band, less chance of breaking things.
What accessories? Power steering should be the same, then get a one wire aftermarket alternator, done.

lumberjack

07-09-2008, 10:46 PM

Think the alternator bracket would switch over?

I'm also still flirting with the idea of AC.

sawinredneck

07-09-2008, 11:21 PM

The alt. bracket is great in theory, but the bends are wrong as I have found at least.
Don't ask me about A/C, I don't know why, but Chevy A/C bracketry ALWAYS wins against me:? It really seems easy enough, but it never works?

GASoline71

07-10-2008, 10:06 PM

It's just easier to find all the brackets off of a big block, then tryin' to make the small block brackets work. Trust me...

Anyways... all the brackets are available in the aftermarket Carlito. :)

Gary

lumberjack

07-10-2008, 11:23 PM

Nice!

Speaking of crazzzy talk, Rockwells are looking quasi affordable. I can get a matched set for the same as a Dana 60 front end in a similar condition.

The downside is I wouldn't be able to run a smaller tire (42" tire would have me doing 49mph @ 2krpm) and I wouldn't be able to sit as low due to the higher top loading axle. The benefit is my drive line angles would be mint, ubber strong, cheaper tires, and with a mohawked center section a similar ground clearance to the 10bolt/Dana 44.

I could run a big block or small block, and be fairly bomber with the option to go crazy strength wise in the aftermarket.

To give you a idea on the price, I could have a set of 2.5T Rocks($1100) with lockers ($485 an axle, like a Detroit), 8 lug hubs ($475 a corner, normal chevy pattern, will fit in a 16" wheel), front wheel mounted disc brakes ($650 a corner), and a rear pinion brake($465) for $5270. I could do the 8 lug conversion and have a pinion brake on both axles while waiting for the $2600 for the 4 wheel disc brakes to arrive.

To compare a single front Dana 60 ($1100) plus a locker ($900 selectable), CTM joints ($500), chromoly shafts ($600) would be $3100 for the front axle alone, and another $900 for the rear locker.

A set of Goodyear or Michelin tires 46-52" for the Rocks will run $650-900 compared to $2k for the 42" tires.

I'm going to do some measuring tomorrow to see how low I could have the truck with Rockwells. The 46" tire is only 4" taller than the tire I was wanting to run.

The idea is spend the money once, cry once, love the hell outta it for a loooong time. Presently I'm planning :)

Paul B

07-10-2008, 11:53 PM

I call shotgun!

:D someday.....

lumberjack

07-11-2008, 12:17 AM

Only gonna be two buckets, and the bed :evil:

Paul B

07-11-2008, 01:33 AM

well I still call shotgun, unless you are giving up the drivers seat! :P

lumberjack

07-11-2008, 09:00 AM

Heck if you get down here I'll putcha in the drivers seat after I give you a walk through of the do's and don'ts :).

Do
1: Strap in with at least the lap belts.

Don't
1: Eat my imported car, others are fair game :)

Al Smith

07-11-2008, 09:25 AM

An old story about a 454 Chevy ,since it was mentioned .

My buddy who is or was somewhat of a speed demon was somewhat annoyed with his Chevy 1/2 ton with a 305 pulling a big boat .Evidently he thought it should scoot like his Corvette pulling a 28 foot boat .

Now the danged truck was only about 6 months old at the time .Off to the wrecking yard he trots and found a 454 Truck engine .Sends the thing to the automotive speed shop .About 2 thousand dollars later here comes a hopped up ,fire breathing overbore 454 with a giant Holley carb ..Must have put out 400 or more horsepower .

After fiddling with it for several weeks getting air conditioner and alternator brackets ,it's ready to go . Down a country road he goes,lays the gas to it and promptly twists an axle in two . Too many ponys for the drive train .

stehansen

07-11-2008, 10:12 AM

I saw a similar thing Al. Back in the 70's friend of mine had just bought a used chevy 4WD and was putting it through it's paces in the mud. He was on this slick mud and was revving the hell out of it spinning all the wheels and just creeping along. He comes to the road and the spinning front axle was OK for a while until it spun all the mud off of the tires and grabbed, then BAM!, twisted the front axle. Idiot owned the thing all of a few hours and now a major repair. He was surprised to learn that the front axle can't handle all of the power of the motor. The confused look on his face as one of our other buddies is explaining to him the dynamics of momentum and physics was priceless. Good luck with your project Carl. It sounds really fun, both the construction and the use of it.

Al Smith

07-11-2008, 02:14 PM

Seriously when you get to hopping up engines in something like this you have to get concerned the drive line will handle it .

There was a popular conversion for the little CJ2A Jeeps using a Chevy 283 .You in effect increased the HP by a factor of three going from 65 to around 190 .Oh my they would fly but they also broke axles and smoked clutch too if you weren't carefull .

sawinredneck

07-11-2008, 06:43 PM

I wondeed how bad it was. Now I have a better understanding.
With the Dana 60 and a mild 454, up to around 600hp, he would be fine. The 14 bolt wont care what you throw at it.

With the Rockwells I think around 2500hp is max. This is what they use on the monster show trucks. They are NICE, and STRONG!!
I like:
STRONG!
Center brake disc, less rotating mass, better stopping.
Full floaters, and if you break an axle, well, you were an idiot!
What I don't like:
HEAVY, HEAVY,HEAVY!!
Gear changes cost about as much as a new set of axles
Unuiqe, read expensive, u-joints.
New drive shts fo these are NOT CHEAP!!
Did I mention they are heavy?

cybergeek23851

07-11-2008, 08:52 PM

lumberjack

07-12-2008, 12:28 AM

Yeah Jay, I know about OEM.

Low+Rocks < oil pan clearance.:D

arborworks1

07-12-2008, 12:53 AM

When does the actual build start?

lumberjack

07-12-2008, 10:12 AM

I've got some other projects to finish, one of which is replacing the broken yoke on Andy's much inflated 14bolt axle that resides in the back of my 3/4 ton.

I plan to have it in the shop by next weekend. From there the first order of business is disassemble and remove the old suspension, axles, transmission/T case, and engine. The guy with the transmission/transfer case setup pictured above has fallen out of contact, the last message I received was Tuesday night. I responded saying I definitely wanted it and asked what he wanted for the setup and extra 203 case, and he's never responded.

I'm going to try to call him one more time (got creative, I think I have his home number), yesterday afternoon I tried it and whoever answered said he was asleep. Anywho, if he falls through, I'm planning on getting the axles next weekend, which will actually be better for me as I will be able to figure out the suspension and it's cross members.

On the axles, I'll have to go through them and make sure all is well, undoubtably replace the boots and install boot guards, then mowhawk the center section, blast and paint; I'll install the lockers later.

lumberjack

07-15-2008, 12:11 PM

Update, just talked to Scott, the bell housing, overdrive, transmission, sync'ed 205, and the extra 203 is mine for $2k.

It's a bit more than I thought it would be, he had the buy it now as $1600 for everything but the 203, which is worth about $200. But, it would still cost me about $3.5k to have what he has (new OD, fresh rebuilt trans and transfer, plus the syncro'ed transfer case is rare and will allow me to shift on the fly).

I'll pick it up after the shin dig in St Louis, on the 31st, gotta be in DC on the 1st by noon.

GASoline71

07-16-2008, 02:23 PM

That OD will come in handy on the street with the big tires and tall gears. Is the OD a strong enough unit? It won't be the "Lynch Pin" of the setup will it Carlito?

Gary

lumberjack

07-16-2008, 04:33 PM

Ha, it's rated for 440ftlbs continuous input and a 25k gvw. It should be spec'ed just about perfectly for a 454.

I'm going to call the company that made it and see if the 1:1 is stronger than running it through the planetary set. The OD will also be handy for splitting gears to get better wheel speed for the mud.

Burnham

07-17-2008, 12:58 PM

Ok, I'm gonna ask a stoopid question...after all this, what's it gonna be good for? I mean, what's this truck do?

Skwerl

07-17-2008, 01:01 PM

I think it is designed to get rid of excess cash in an efficient and expedient manner.
;)

sotc

07-17-2008, 01:04 PM

sounds like it:D

sawinredneck

07-17-2008, 01:07 PM

It really is fun. You can go to mud runs and meet others that have the same affliction, and win money.

Then a couple of years latter you figure out how much you have spent, and the fun seems to wear off:lol:

lumberjack

07-17-2008, 01:23 PM

I have a good idea of what I'll spend over the next few years on it.

It'll be a (mainly) street legal fun truck that can still tow as much or more than a 1 ton, and haul small loads in the bed.

With the help of a guy on another forum, I found a way to get the same/similar brakes for about $3500 less than I was planning.

Burnham

07-17-2008, 07:09 PM

Heck of a deal...
:D

lumberjack

07-17-2008, 07:18 PM

It's just like money in the bank!

stehansen

07-17-2008, 09:09 PM

Ok, I'm gonna ask a stoopid question...after all this, what's it gonna be good for? I mean, what's this truck do?

Showing your age Burnham. Being all practical and all.

GASoline71

07-18-2008, 03:43 AM

It's kinda like the truck I'm building... just a big hole in the garage you huck money into...

All in fun... :)

Gary

MasterBlaster

07-18-2008, 07:58 AM

That's how my reef tank was.

Cobleskill

07-18-2008, 10:28 AM

My buddy has a reef tank. Pretty cool but it sounds like a lot of upkeep. He showed me critters that hitched a ride in on corral he bought.

MasterBlaster

07-18-2008, 10:36 AM

Yes, that's called live rock and it IS pretty cool. The unfortunate thing is parasites can also be hitching a ride, which was what happened to me. Aiptasia (http://fins.actwin.com/pics/Aiptasia_sp2.jpg) did me in.

squisher

07-18-2008, 07:25 PM

I had a reef tank a few years back too. Same thing, money and death.

MasterBlaster

07-18-2008, 07:34 PM

I had it for about five years, it was amazingly awesome, but I had to pay for it. Now I have one huge Oscar.

squisher

07-18-2008, 07:36 PM

Now I got a empty tank! Been thinking about firing up some freshwater though for the kiddo. Much more simpler.

lumberjack

07-21-2008, 11:11 PM

*Edited to remove some of the chafe*

I got to thinking today that a truggy would be better suited for what I want, and with a lot less effort I could also have my 1/2 ton back up and going.

http://memphis.craigslist.org/car/763713916.html

The engine may be rebuild-able, cracked head, water in the oil. According to him the head gasket blew, they let it cool, added water, and he drove it home the 3 miles back to the house. That's all I know about the internals of that engine. He said it happened all at once, which to me means the engine over heated, and cracked a head(s). Those more knowledgeable than I feel free to give me some input regarding the rebuild-ability.

The engine is TBI, which would be a nice addition to the brown truck, even better if I had a rebuilt 350 under it. The tranny should be able to work in my 1/2 ton without me having to buy much of anything. I'll have to swap tail housings and maybe output shafts, but otherwise it should bolt right up between my 305 and my 208, thus making the truck drivable in 2wd again :). Swap out the front axle to match the rear, and I'm back to having a 1/2 ton, 4wd truck :).

He offered $400 without us talking price. I told him I might could swing by Friday on the way to St Louis, but it would be a minimum of 2 Monday weeks before I could actually get it out of his yard.

Here's what I'm thinking.
1:The shell of the truck, minus the engine and the tranny would bring at least $300 from the local scrap yard.

2:If the engine's block is rebuildable (within reason, no tig'ing up huge cracks and hours of milling) that'd be great, as I've always had an inferiority complex over the 305 in my 1/2 ton. If the engine doesn't work, I could pull all the TBI stuff out, and shelve it for future use.

3: Assuming the tranny is like he says it is, I could replace it with my tranny, saving $800-1k rebuilding the tranny that's already in there and making my truck streetable again.

That puts me out $300 ($600 minus $300 from scrap) for a potential at $1600 worth of parts/scrap ($800 tranny, $300 Scrap, $200 short block, $200 TBI system, $100 rear axle).

Thoughts? Especially about the engine's rebuildability regarding the head gasket. It's about a 30 minute detour 1 way from the intended path to St Louis.

stehansen

07-22-2008, 10:09 AM

From my experience it's much more likely to be a cracked head than a head gasket. Assuming the block is good, two new/rebuilt heads. I believe about $250 each on the internet. I believe that these heads are inexpensive enough to make welding of them usually not cost effective. If the cylinders are worn then you of course are in for a couple of K but will have a new motor. Have you thought about a high performance motor? Also when my heads were rebuilt on my 1994 chevy 350 they put in stainless steel exhaust valve seats and I think there was some upgrade for the exhaust valves also because I would be towing my dump trailer.

lumberjack

07-22-2008, 10:25 AM

My experience also says cracked head.

I figure with a quarter million miles on the engine, the cylinders will have the typical ridge and taper to go along with it, meaning the "best" thing to do would be a complete rebuild. I figure it'll be a 2 bolt, but a splayed 4 bolt main caps could be added for minimal expense.

Whatcha mean by "Have you thought about a high performance motor?" You mean buying one, or rebuilding that block into one? If you mean the rebuilding it, that's what I was figuring I'd do, probably a 383.

I figure the heads will be toast, just hope the block is rebuildable. In theory I believe I could reuse the heads/intake off the 305 that's already in my truck. Long skinny runners is what I'd need for torque, and I'm not sure the TBI would be upgradable to feed a 383.

stehansen

07-23-2008, 01:14 AM

[QUOTE=lumberjack;245035]My experience also says cracked head.

Whatcha mean by "Have you thought about a high performance motor?" You mean buying one, or rebuilding that block into one? If you mean the rebuilding it, that's what I was figuring I'd do, probably a 383.

I QUOTE]

I meant buying a complete one. I didn't know you had the skills to rebuild that engine into one.

lumberjack

07-23-2008, 09:08 AM

Yeah, if you look higher up you can see where I was pricing crate motors. The second was the HT383 for $4100, the first was a vanilla 350.

Oh yeah, I gots the skillz.
:shoot:

lumberjack

08-05-2008, 11:44 PM

As an update, the dude in Iowa fell through, never sent me his contact info then sent me an email on the 2nd asking where I was. In earlier emails he knew I would either be back home or headed to CT on the 2nd.

Anywho, I'm picking up an 88 Suburban this weekend. It's got the same tranny as my truck, although I'll have to swap output shafts. Also it has a 350TBI that should be rebuildable.

I should be able to come out even if not a couple hundred dollars ahead on the price of the Burb plus the fuel I'll burn going to get it by parting it out and scrapping the rest.

I've also got a lead on a Dana 60/14bolt axle set for a decent price that would should have my brown truck back to near streetable form.

I figure if I still want to, in the future I'll make a buggy instead of cutting up an otherwise fine truck to bits and replace nearly everything but the cab.

lumberjack

08-10-2008, 09:59 PM

Back home with the Suburban. If I drained the fuel and hauled it to the scrape yard I'd be out about $60
from the purchase price and fuel to get it.

One thing that made some money was finding gas at $3.38 a gallon, I took a 5 gallon can with me (more like it was already on the truck) and the 'burb has a 45 gallon tank. I found it already had 15-16 gallons in the tank, so I topped it and the 5 gallon can off and hauled it back ($.28 cheaper per gallon than the cheapest here).

Skwerl

08-10-2008, 10:03 PM

So you spent $120 buying 35 gallons of gas and saved almost $10? Awesome! :lol:

RIVERRAT

08-10-2008, 10:19 PM

So you spent $120 buying 35 gallons of gas and saved almost $10? Awesome! :lol:

Before Carl is done with this project he will soon be sick of every penny he's spent on it. But I have an appreciation for his gung ho get er done attitude:)
This is one of those life's lessons unfolding before our very own eyes. That fathers have all ready learned & feel the need to tell their sons about.
While wise grandfathers sit in perfect silence with a smirk, watching it all unfold :)

lumberjack

08-10-2008, 10:37 PM

Between the 2.5T of scrap, the 15 gallons of included gas, and the $15 I saved hauling the fuel back (which I'll have burned this week) the total is within $60 of what I have in the truck and the expense of getting it.

Jeff, I fail to see what the hell you're talking about, and my grandfather is dead, so that would explain his silence.

MasterBlaster

08-10-2008, 10:40 PM

Hey, so is mine. :drink:

lumberjack

08-10-2008, 10:48 PM

Is yours smirking? Mine is, but it's unrelated to my truck.

MasterBlaster

08-10-2008, 10:51 PM

Hell, I don't know. He's dead.

RIVERRAT

08-10-2008, 11:05 PM

Its all in jest Carl. Sort of:lol:

My Grandpa didn't smirk. Not at the beginning anyways.
He encouraged & helped, while smiling. After I had rejected his explanation of why what I was doing might not be the best thing:D
Then after he had helped enough to get me set on my wrong-full way he would sit down...quietly... watching... & smirk.

stehansen

08-10-2008, 11:07 PM

squisher

08-10-2008, 11:12 PM

Nothing wrong with building/having toys. What the hell are we working for anyways? I love me a monster mud truck, hell it ain't cheap but what is nowadays?

RIVERRAT

08-10-2008, 11:16 PM

I beg to differ Riverrat. I would be proud of my son if he were to take on a project like this, and I would help in whatever way I could. His Grandfather would too. I have a nephew in Florida that is building some kind of swamp buggy and my Dad thinks the experience my nephew is getting is priceless.
Its all how you go about it. I was just funnen a bit with Carl.
Doesnt matter how it comes out. I am sure Carl will learn a great deal out of this project.

stehansen

08-10-2008, 11:23 PM

Its all how you go about it. I was just funnen a bit with Carl.
Doesnt matter how it comes out. I am sure Carl will learn a great deal out of this project.

That's what my dad figures. Even if it fails he (my nephew) will learn from it.

lumberjack

08-10-2008, 11:33 PM

I was wondering what was going on.

The current plan is to mildly build this truck, then build a buggy/truggy out of another, non complete truck.

I did find a pair of Duece and a halves that I might can pick up on the cheap, I've got to talk to the owner, but from what I understand one might be for sale for less than it would bring at the scrap yard.

Going to get the owners number in the morning, it's possible I buy one (or two) snag the axles, scrap the rest, sell the axles, and make a some moooney. We'll see.

RIVERRAT

08-10-2008, 11:39 PM

Carl the fun your having now sometimes wont come as easy later in life.
Oh I still have fun. But when your younger its more care free I guess.

Cant explain it that well.
Guess what I am trying to say is ENJOY THIS DANG TRUCK STUFF TO IT'S FULLEST MAN!!

lumberjack

08-11-2008, 11:31 AM

Just took the burb on it's maiden voyage, the engine makes exceptional power, but it is certainly water cooled :lol: Looked like a convoy of skeeter trucks coming from the tail pipe after I got on it the first time.

I'll pull the heads and see what's what, I may luck up and find it's only a gasket and the heads mating surface doesn't look like a wave spring. When my heads cracked on my 1 ton, the motor died and refused to fire over.

lumberjack

08-16-2008, 06:13 PM

Fairly well done playing with the Burb, it'll get parted/scrapped out soon. After doing some high speed passes (45-50mph through the lake, jumping it out of and into said lake, as well as drifting through stumps and taking it through some mud bogs at rediculous speeds, I got scared of puncturing the fuel tank and letting that $165 run out.

Bought a bell housing and a SM465 today for $150. Haven't seen it yet but I figure Daniel will bring it by when he gets back to town.

Paul B

08-16-2008, 06:27 PM

Fairly well done playing with the Burb, it'll get parted/scrapped out soon. After doing some high speed passes (45-50mph through the lake, jumping it out of and into said lake, as well as drifting through stumps and taking it through some mud bogs at rediculous speeds, I got scared of puncturing the fuel tank and letting that $165 run out.

camera shy is it? wheres the 'hey y'all, watch this!!!!" video and accompanying pitchures?

lumberjack

08-16-2008, 06:30 PM

Ha never thought about it until I made that post.

I did cut a tire though, maybe I can get $20 for the rims :)

Paul B

08-16-2008, 06:31 PM

y'ever seen this show LJ? :D

http://www.baseballforum.com/attachments/locker-room/207d1152480561-favorite-comedian-sanford-son-photo-autographed-photo-.jpg

lumberjack

08-16-2008, 06:35 PM

Haha heard of it is all.

cybergeek23851

08-16-2008, 06:46 PM

y'ever seen this show LJ? :D

http://www.baseballforum.com/attachments/locker-room/207d1152480561-favorite-comedian-sanford-son-photo-autographed-photo-.jpg

I was born a dirty old man, and I'll die a dirty old man... now hows about some champipple! :P

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 01:07 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/6a6f_1.jpg

:shifty:

cybergeek23851

08-17-2008, 08:50 AM

MMMMmmmmmmMMMMM!

Rockwells.....dead sexay! :dur:

Frans

08-17-2008, 09:58 AM

What are those axles, LJ?

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 11:50 AM

They're a pair a Rockwell 2.5T steering axles.

Think of them as roughly twice as strong as a Dana 60 1 ton front end (both stock) can be made 2-3x as stong as a heavily modified Dana 60, but with a mohawked center section it has as much ground clearance as a stock Dana 44/GM10Bolt (1/2ton stuff).

The downsides are (depends on what you need) is the top loader box sits about 9" above the axle and can get in the way of oil pans, radiators, ect. And lastly, those two axles weigh a combined 1700lbs in stock form. Removing the drum brakes takes off 320lbs, and you can add wheel or pinon mounted disc brakes.

The stock axle is a 16 spline 1.62" shaft with a monster of a U joint. Like a Dana 60/70/80, you can get aftermarket alloy shafts that increase the strength pretty dramatically. Unlike most other (common) axles, you can also get an aftermarket 2" 42 spline alloy shaft which is fairly astronomically strong, figure 3x stronger than a stock shaft, or nearly 6x stronger than a stock Dana 60.

Now I just gotta go get them :|:

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 11:56 AM

Bootyfab alert!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Overviewdriversside.jpg

The blocks are gay as hell but you can get the idea of the clean clearnace these offer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Frontofrearaxle.jpg

These aren't my axles, but they both are like this one, 52" tires. Mohawking the center section gains another 2" of clearnace making for the lowest bit being 22" above the ground:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Frontaxleoverblocks.jpg

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 01:03 PM

Axle shaft comparison.

Dana 44, Dana 60, Rock 2.5
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Danna4460Rock25axleshafts.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Danna4460Rock25.jpg

Quarter vs Stock Rock vs 2" OEM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Quarter2162.jpg

Frans

08-17-2008, 01:11 PM

Nice how the 2" OEM stub is twisted...

I am thinking of using toyota axles maybe fitting in 30 spline rears. But have not worked it all out in my head yet.

Don't want to do rock crawling just yank stuff once in a while and not have to ever think about the axles and worry. Like in the middle of the MOAB far from home

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 01:15 PM

No twist in the 2"er, the smaller, shorter bit is the 1.62" stock (broken) axle shaft.

Whatchoo building Snarf?

ETA: OEM stands for Ouverson Engineering Machine

Paul B

08-17-2008, 01:24 PM

I thought it was original equipment manufacturer (http://online.wsj.com/documents/glos_o.htm)...

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 01:44 PM

Yeah, I forgot to mention that this OEM be a bit different. :)

Frans

08-17-2008, 04:17 PM

Whatchoo building Snarf?

This. It is a 70s land rover series 11a 3 door.
Gonna re-do this with a ford 302, maybe a borg t-18 maybe save the rover transfer case.
I just don't know all the details yet, still working out what will work with what.

Toyota axles, or maybe Scout axles, just don't know. 30 spline front and rear, 30 rear 24 front. what what what just don't know, or really understand yet.
Jeez, it's all still on the drawing board, and all this is new to me.

302 efi, but set up with some kind of torque low end. Custom cross flow radiator. 4 electric fans if there is not enough room in the engine compartment

Also power steering conversion, and disk brake conversion all around.

When I right this down it makes me realize what a big project this is.

Still waiting for it to be shipped from Missouri

Paul B

08-17-2008, 04:20 PM

I bet you can turn that into a heckuva rig Frans.

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 04:26 PM

Where in Missery is it? My axles are in Washburn.

Normally a higher spline count is a larger axle shaft diameter. The advantage to more splines for the same diameter is the minium diameter is increased because the depth of each spline is reduced, thus increasing the strength of the shaft.

What size tire do you want to end up with? I'm thinking 53"s for starts and maybe some larger rice and cane tires if "need-be":)

cybergeek23851

08-17-2008, 04:42 PM

Frans... go with the toys, and look for Marlin Crawler.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm

They know the ins and out of Toys, especially axles and X-fer cases. Scouts are beefy, yes, but in trying to source aftermarker parts for them, is getting to be harder and harder. Besides, you're in Cali, Yotas are a dime a dozen. The bodies will rot before the drivetrain/powertrain is ready to die.

With Toyota axles, they are relatively easy to work on. Just like working on Ford 9's you work off of a 3rd member. To beef them up, I'd look for clearincing the pumpkin housing and building a bit stronger case for it, truss the tubes and weld them up, and if you are looking to go all out, 3 or 4 link it. If you are looking beyond even this... Diamond housing. Another popular choice is to find a wrecked FZJ80 or any Toy with an E-locker... otherwise you've got the choice between a LSD, Lincoln, ARB or Auburn Ected(aftermarket E-locker).

If you need any advice on a Rover as far as electrical goes, PM me. I can put you in contact with some folks that know the ins and outs in their sleep.

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 04:52 PM

cybergeek23851

08-17-2008, 05:06 PM

I was waiting to see what size tire he wanted before I recommended an axle.

A 302 can stomp the piss out of most Toys, and he mentioned wanting the ability to pull on slick rock (Moab, super traction), which is mighty hard on axles.

Sooo I'm holding judgment on axle selections.

If he keeps it to 37 or below, he should be ok. I agree that Toys may be a little weak for what his plans are. I'd reccomend a D60 and a 14bolt(or D70), if he wants to truly "get it." If he has a light foot, he could do ok, but results aren't always guarunteed. F-toys by rules are required to use Toy axles, albeit they are using 22re and their varients for power.

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 05:20 PM

I think someone needs to tell us their plans?!

Frans

08-17-2008, 09:18 PM

Wow, I think I hit on a treasure trove here at the HOUSE!

As I said this is new to me. If I sound like I know what I am talking about it is because I have talked to some folks and read a bit.

The idea of getting a rover was to have an interesting looking capable off road truck.
But I want it to also be a daily driver.

The rover is located in Springfield Misery.

Its got 16" steel wheels now with I think BFG mud Terrains. 265/75/r16
That size tire is fine.

As I don't really know what direction I am going with this project, Here are a couple of point which I know I want:

Daily driver
Every part on it, off the shelf here in America. I want to be in some little town in say Wyoming or Cape Cod and be able to get parts.
This means gutting the truck of most if not all rover parts. (did you just hear all those purity rover nuts yell out?)

The truck is now a leafer and a leafer it will stay. No 4 link, But man that sound cool! Here comes frans with his freaking 4 link rover! Look out!.

I do not intend on rock crawling, I just want to build it up so I don't break it under my unskilled off road driving. We do go into Death Valley and the Moab sometimes. So those are strictly 4 wheel drive roads. I have a trip planned down deep into Baja at some point to go fishing with my friend.
I don't go too fast, and I don't 'test' my vehicles. I jsut like to get there and back and have a good time.

Trucks got parabolic springs on it now which is a softer ride, but gives more articulation.

One thing I dont know, is the exact measurements of the axle width. These old rovers came with Salesbury axles which is the equivalent of a Dana 40? I think. Very weak from the factory actually. 12 spline rears factory stock.

I don't mind Toyotas, but several people have told me 'then you will be stuck with toyota wheels'. I don't see that as bad, but I do wonder if the wheel wells will interfere with wheel articulation... or if they will stick out.. just don't know. A bit of wheel sticking out is fine with me, I can just put some eyebrows on there.

In a couple weeks I will know more in terms of actual measurements. Its gonna get tricky with centering the new motor, lining up the output shafts, etc. But trust me, I love to pick people's brains :)

The old series rovers are VERY narrow. Maybe the toyota axles are the best fit. E-lockers sound cool. For what I have done in the past, lockers are pretty essential. It's just too rugged. ARB air lockers are expensive.

Oh, and did I mention, I will be paying for this truck out of my own personal spare change, not a business expense. So that means this build up will take a long long time.

cybergeek23851

08-17-2008, 09:24 PM

Frans... PIck and PULL... learn it, live it, love it, wrench it!

As for the wheels, they can be solved with adapters, and various parts.

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 09:28 PM

If it were me, I'd find a 3/4T or 1T 4wd 73-87 Cheby laying around, pull the Motor, tranny, transfer case, and axles.

You're a Ford dude so translate that into whatever it needs to be. Having a parts vehicle right there will make the swap really easy in comparison.

Centering and lining the engine up and all isn't that critical, that's why they run U joints, to allow for misalignment :)

I'd stay away from wheel adapters, but that's just me :)

Daniel just dropped this off, a 2wd SM465 4 speed tranny used from 68ish to 91 in GM 1/2T to 2.5T trucks. 175lbs. I traded Daniel two speakers and an amp for the transmission, bell housing, shift fork, and $50. Not sure what I'll use it for, but for $150, I couldn't really pass it up being so local. I would rather my 1 ton be a manual, this tranny would fill that roll.

The 2wd uses a 35 spline output whearas the 4wd used a 10 or 32 spline. Looking at about $50-60 for a different mainshaft, or I could run a divorced t case.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05110.jpg

cybergeek23851

08-17-2008, 09:30 PM

Oh Carl! Walking Tall is starting again... if you want some more motivation again.

Frans

08-17-2008, 09:37 PM

LJ, thats exactly what I started thinking of, grab a chevy and swap.
What stopped me, and I may be able to work around it, is that the chevy small block 350 is actually larger in outside dimensions than the 302. Same block, shorter heads on the 302.
The chevy engine has the distributor at the back, which means I need more clearance back there, but not alot. But my personal experience with chevy engines is I have worked the piss out of them and they keep on running.

No matter what I have to modify the bulkhead and transmission tunnel

ps: I am not a Ford man, I am a slut who buys and uses what is in front of me and works well. :)
pps: I have a pick 'n pull right down the road!

Frans

08-17-2008, 09:40 PM

cybergeek23851

08-17-2008, 09:49 PM

I have a client who has a Chevy step side 1/2 T. he might trade for some tree work. The tranny has a granny gear on it which is important to me.
I am guessing I cant use the axles? They are 6 lug.

Fully loaded I am guessing the rover would come in at about 5500 lbs or a tad heavier.

You could.... run teh p!ss out of them, 'til they break, upgrade, repeat. It's an endless cycle. As to the firewall, you can 2 it ways:

http://mfinley.com/gif/sledgehammer.jpg

or(combined)

http://www.royalhawaiianrentalscom.superpageshosting.com/nss-folder/pictures/sawsall.jpg
http://onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/1000_action_2.jpg

and

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/0/09/300px-GMAW_weld_area.png

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 09:56 PM

Cali has alot of options truck wise, I see them quite often and wish I was out there.

On my truck, I'd like for the driveshafts to be the same, so I only need one spare.

If I can work that out, my 2wd tranny will most likely end up feeding into a 32 spline 4wd tranny, into a 205 transfer case. Should be about 53" long from the bell housing to the rear output flange. I believe it will be cheaper than using a doubler, and offer way more options.

Just an idea.

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 09:57 PM

I'm in favor of doing it once, rather than using an aweful 10 or 12 bolt.

Thing is, they break right at the worst of times.

Frans

08-17-2008, 10:00 PM

I like plasma cutters! forget the surround sound complete living room entertainment center, give me a plasma cutter!

Carl, having just one driveshaft length is a great idea. Less to pack around.

so whats with the 6 lug axles? I cant just jam in two heavier axle half shafts and have a higher rated axle?

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 10:11 PM

Sure, you'll just have to machine and broach or hob the side gears of the weaker axle and you're good to go with larger shafts.

Now you have weaker gears, still a weak carrier, and a lot of money tied up in nothing.

If you could go with 8 lug axles, that would be fairly cheap/easy.

stehansen

08-17-2008, 10:37 PM

Frans, remember it has to be a '75 or older or it will be subject to smog checks.

sawinredneck

08-17-2008, 10:44 PM

You are out of control Carl!!! You are a sick bastid man!!! I can'tbelieve you bought the Rocks!!! I fell proud and sick all at the same time!!!!

Frans, I wouldn't waste my time with the Toy axels, the stock Rovers are stronger. Carl is right, the six lug wheels just add one more lug to the weak axles.

BUT, what you are talking about doing, I don't see the need for 3/4 ton axels either.
What about a Jeep? Find a rotted out Jeep with a Dana 44 and the odd (but findable) floating Dana 44 rear. Parts out the ying yang, and the width should be close to the Rover's stock axles.
Don't laugh at the I-6 either, lots of parts available, and they can be BUILT!!! The tranny I can take or leave, but they do work.
The killer of these builds is in the driveshafts!! SPARE NO COST ON THE DRIVE SHAFT!!!!
Just throwing out some more ideas.

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 11:02 PM

I surely wouldn't go for a 44 rear in a 5klb vehicle, I was thinking a 44 front, and a 14b srw for the rear. Both can be had for fairly little ($500 for the pair is the average, seen them as low as $250, or you could just pull them from a donor truck along with the rest of the driveline.)

A 60ff rear is fairly cheap as well, and can be had in the same pattern as the front 44. My thoughts on 3/4 axles was so he could buy one truck and have all the stuff he needed.

14bolts are the tits, cheap, plenty of parts, hella strong. A 44 8 lug or 44HD is common, decently strong, and most importantly, found in the front of the same vehicle the 14 bolt came from (if it's 4wd).

FWIW, a GM10 bolt and a Dana 44 are the same in regards to strength (and alot of parts).

Another bitch about 1/2 axles are they are nearly all semi floaters, which means (in the GM family) that if you break an axle, the tire will leave the vehicle. With a 14bolt (or 60FF or 44FF) you can lock the diff and drive home on the single axle shaft. I would go for a 60FF before a 44FF for the strength and the fact they are more common.

Frans

08-17-2008, 11:04 PM

Frans, I wouldn't waste my time with the Toy axels, the stock Rovers are stronger.

Funny you should say that. Here is a link to a guy I have been talking to. He re-works the rover axles

http://www.seriestrek.com/

Tell me what you think about his axles. I think, with shipping, I would be looking at around 3 grand for the set. Kinda high?

I would really like to just find a standard axle set and go with it, not mess with too much tricky mods. The idea is to be able to pick up spares/replacements in any town or city in America.

sawinredneck

08-17-2008, 11:17 PM

or 3K I'll build you a narrowed set of Rocks Frans!!! Sorry, but no thanks!!!

I hear you Carl, I am all about the 14B (You should know that:lol:) But I think it's overkill in this instance! And I personally (no proof) feel the 44 is built a bit stronger than the 10-12B.

Frans

08-17-2008, 11:17 PM

Ever hear of this company?

Man, they seem to make some nice radiators. Even with built in fans and oil coolers
http://www.rondavisradiators.com/Welcome.htm

lumberjack

08-17-2008, 11:40 PM

Since the 44 uses the same size ring gear, pinion, axle shafts, axle spline, and splindles, I'm venturing a guess to say that the 44 is the same strength as a 10 bolt front end.

A 44FF is stronger than a 10/12 Bolt rear for sure.

What's wrong with overkill, especially when it's CHEAPER? Reduced ground clearance is one downside, but that can be helped with a good shave.

Frans, one problem with those axles is you won't be finding parts for them at Tom, Dick or Hairy's shop in the middle of Baja. Another problem is for that money you could buy a complete, well running, 3/4ton truck, and new 33" tires including the spare.

Steering could be interesting, don't know how Rovers are setup.

Frans

08-18-2008, 12:09 AM

Frans, one problem with those axles is you won't be finding parts for them at Tom, Dick or Hairy's shop in the middle of Baja. Another problem is for that money you could buy a complete, well running, 3/4ton truck, and new 33" tires including the spare.

Steering could be interesting, don't know how Rovers are setup.

I agree. I want to stay away from being too specialized. I like the rover, but hate all the british crap like lucas wireing.
Rather go with standard stuff.

As for the rover steering? There is none. Have to install power steering.

lumberjack

08-18-2008, 12:43 AM

That's the interesting part.

sawinredneck

08-18-2008, 04:28 PM

Thats where the donor vehicle saves you're BUTT!!!!
If you want durablity, parts availability, some what reasonable price, and TOUGH as nails, maybe some custom built Ford 9 inch axles?
I know why Carl is pushing the 3/4 tonners, they are cheap and everywhere. I just think for that thing they are heavy, and you loose some of the "cool factor" running eight lug rims on something like that.
Other than the axle shafts and housings everything else will be off the shelf parts. You can have them set up for any brakes you want as well as 3/4 or one ton universal joints and drive shafts.
Have two sets of carriers put together and inan hour you have new gears front and rear!!
These guys have been around for years!!
http://www.currieenterprises.com/

I still think the Jeep donor is a good ticket also, but thats me.

Frans

08-18-2008, 06:01 PM

If the axles fit, I am seriously considering chevy. They are all over the place and it is a buyers market right now around here

sawinredneck

08-18-2008, 06:17 PM

If the axles fit, I am seriously considering chevy. They are all over the place and it is a buyers market right now around here

I wont talk you out of them, I am just thinking they will be wide.
Thats one of my pet peeves, Jeeps with wide axles going down the road.

MasterBlaster

08-18-2008, 06:18 PM

Why is that? The tires sling shit?

sawinredneck

08-18-2008, 06:32 PM

That too. I just think they look like shit. Huge fender flares that don't even cover half the tire.
There is a place around here that sells themselves as Jeep builders.
If you built it, then the axles are under the body, like they are supposed to be, keeping the Jeep narrow and agile.
Now we have a short Suburban rnning down the road!

MasterBlaster

08-18-2008, 06:35 PM

I thought the oversized tire look was supposed to be cool.

lumberjack

08-18-2008, 06:49 PM

sawinredneck

08-18-2008, 06:54 PM

I thought the oversized tire look was supposed to be cool.

Oversize tires yes!! But when the inside of the tire is even with the outside of the fender, not so much!

sawinredneck

08-18-2008, 06:56 PM

Not to mention nothing messes up an expedition like laying your rig on your side.

Frans, they will be wider I'm almost certain, but that's not what I call a bad thing.

You're wanting a manual tranny eh?

In Moab, that can be a VERY BAD thing!!! Those trails are TIGHT and NARROW! With rocks on both sides.

lumberjack

08-18-2008, 07:34 PM

A 14 bolt comes in 63"and 67" WMS. The IIA is every bit of 66" wide.

Best I can tell, Series WMS is about 54".

Not exactly as extreme as you make it sound. Plus I doubt he'll be doing hard core rock crawling in the vehicle he's riding home.

Jeep's weigh roughly the same as a Rover, maybe a little less. Why would you want to go through the hastle of replacing the axles with axles from a comparable weight (percieved strength) vehicle? Seems like alot of squeeze for the same juice you already have.

Frans

08-18-2008, 09:00 PM

Manual transmission of course. Grew up working gears starting at 4, don't want to change now.

A lot of these rover types are diehard purists. I don't see the sense in hanging on to old technology for the sake of looks.

Lucas even says in one of their original wiring manuals 'driving after dark is not recommended' :)

Lucas, the prince of darkness. Headlight switches have three options: 1. off
2. flicker
3. on (sometimes)

If the truck is a bit wide, so be it. But tires sticking out further than half way out of the wheel well would look odd.

Part of the rover's ability to be a great off road vehicle, is it's narrowness, low center of weight, angle of departure, and low gearing

lumberjack

08-18-2008, 11:51 PM

Back to my build, I might have found a 465/205 on the way to get the Rocks. He's been trying to sell them since 7/10 on Craig's list, maybe he'll come down on the price a touch :) It's going to be a 10 spline input on the 205, not ideal, but it should get the job did ;).

I forgot to ask if it was a fixed or slip rear yoke.

Frans

08-19-2008, 01:00 AM

Cobleskill

08-19-2008, 06:58 AM

It is the yoke on the transmission. Fixed it is bolted to the output, slip it can telescope.

Frans

08-19-2008, 09:44 AM

I don't know what the rover has stock. But I was first thinking of putting in a borg t-18 tranny

sotc

08-19-2008, 09:47 AM

must have sold the horses to pay for all this:lol:

lumberjack

08-19-2008, 02:00 PM

I forgot to ask the dude with a 465/205 setup if it was a slip yoke.

FWIW, (SM)465 is a transmission (4 speed in GM trucks from 68-91, 1/2-2.5T). Made by Muncie, fwiw.

RIVERRAT

08-19-2008, 04:57 PM

Carl that 465 is a fantastic gear grinder. Only seen one that was not rebuildable & that was because some one kept running it with the bearings completely gone. They have a great granny gear.

Never cared much for the 205. But for a mud truck it's probably what I would want. Not to mention they are about as indestructible as you can get for the money!!

lumberjack

08-19-2008, 05:08 PM

What's wrong with a 205? For crawling I'll either use a doubler (4:1 in low low) or another tranny (13:1 in low low)

Paul B

08-19-2008, 10:13 PM

my hopped up '80 Z-28 blitzed a borg warner tranny (blew the main drive gear twice in 6 months, mainly due to shitty clutch control by me). put in a Hurst and didnt have any further issue.

lumberjack

08-19-2008, 10:54 PM

While it won't be as cheap, it's looking like the dual transfer cases is a better bet than dual transmissions. The dual t cases add about 6" over the standard T case whereas the dual transmissions add 16.5" (face of bell housing to rear of t case is 53") which really eats into the rear driveshaft, especially since I want them to be interchangable if possible.

Now I need a 32 spline 203, a 32 spline 205, a 465/203 adapater, and ORD's 32spline mainshaft for the 465.

lumberjack

08-20-2008, 12:12 PM

Just got the prices on the conversion pieces.

To convert the SM465 to a 32spline short shaft (works with 203 adapter) is $250.

They have 203 adapters for $275

Doubler kit is $770.

The rear T case will run around $1300

Hopefully I can get a 203 with a 32 spline input, otherwise changing the input shaft will run $155.

Making for a total tranny to T case yokes of $2450ish.

That'll give me the 465's 4 speed, a 2 speed underdrive (1:1 and 2:1) and a LoMax 205 (1:1 or 3:1), short as possible, 32 spline (strongest) everywhere. Crawl ratio 300:1 in double low, or 148:1 with the t case in low.

Gotta save my pennies!

Frans

08-20-2008, 04:18 PM

Guy just called me from Oregon. He has the truck I have been looking for with a small block swap already done. 10K total price.

Thats about 3-4 hours from me. Worth checking out.

sawinredneck

08-20-2008, 04:24 PM

Guy just called me from Oregon. He has the truck I have been looking for with a small block swap already done. 10K total price.

Thats about 3-4 hours from me. Worth checking out.

And you haven't left yet BECAUSE???????????????

lumberjack

08-20-2008, 05:51 PM

He has a Series II for 10k?

Skwerl

08-20-2008, 06:22 PM

Wow, sounds promising, Frans. Good luck with it. Bring your camera and take lots of pictures, that way you (and the rest of us) can study them closely after you get back to see if there's anything you might have missed.
8)

RIVERRAT

08-20-2008, 07:07 PM

What's wrong with a 205? For crawling I'll either use a doubler (4:1 in low low) or another tranny (13:1 in low low) Nothing wrong with it Carl. I just care for how heavy it is. The other issue being its low range. But you are dealling with that.

lumberjack

08-20-2008, 07:17 PM

You're worried about a 135lb T case? A single tire weighs 3x that, the tranny weighs 40lbs more.

The LoMax is a new case and gears, even stronger than the stock 205's setup.

RIVERRAT

08-20-2008, 07:23 PM

I like light

Frans

08-20-2008, 07:32 PM

Nothing wrong with weight down low. Its top heavy weight that can get you messed up on the trail

lumberjack

08-20-2008, 07:34 PM

I'm a beefy kinda fella.

Think I found a good deal on my tires, depending on how it goes, $137.50 per tire, delievered to Memphis. 53x16x20's, 400lbs per tire!

Frans

08-20-2008, 07:36 PM

Guy sent me some pictures and a short description:
1.-33x9.50x15 BFG ATs
2.-283 SBC rebuilt
3.-LT95 from a 101 FC
4.-NOS salsbury rear axle
5.-NOS stage one front axle
6.-saginaw power steering
7.-power brakes
8.-parabolic springs (3 leaf rears)
9.-3.54 gears
10.-northern aluminum radiator
11.-painless wiring
12.-aluminum door tops
13.-IPF headlamps

Truck would include the hard top.

#3 means a transmission from a 'forward control' land rover
#5. means an axle from a 'stage 1 land rover. Built right before the defender 110.

Might go up there this weekend if I have time.

lumberjack

08-20-2008, 07:41 PM

I'm not a big parabolic fan, but that's not supprising. They are smoother and more flexiable, at the expense of load carrying capacity.

Jeff would like them! :P

Any other pictures?

Frans

08-20-2008, 07:43 PM

No more pix yet.
Think that truck would be accepted at Burning Man? :lol:

Thor's Hammer

08-20-2008, 07:45 PM

Thor's Hammer

08-20-2008, 07:47 PM

Why not just buy one of these frans?:)
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/101stuff2006045.jpg

Frans

08-20-2008, 07:47 PM

Salisbury axles are very strong. The 101 forward control was a military gun tractor - they wont fall apart in a hurry.
Are you sure the box is an lt95? 101 V8's had an LT85 'santana' box, again, very strong.

Looks like a good ol' bus.

No, I am not sure. Just that description he sent me.

Does look like a good 'ol bus. Say goodbye to my kidneys.:D

Frans

08-20-2008, 08:00 PM

how about these?

Looks like that rover is being worked like a rented mule.
Might be easier to not have a fixed address

Thor's Hammer

08-20-2008, 08:10 PM

Those MAN 4x4 trucks are awsome. I was looking at buying one as a chip truck, as they are pretty well bulletproof.
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11801737/Man_8_136_Fae_4x4_Army.html

lumberjack

08-20-2008, 08:15 PM

I've found a 32 spline 203 for $150, trying to see if he'll split out the range box and just ship that to me, saving me mondo on shipping, and costing me (with shipping) about $30 more than just the 32 spline shaft. (Good deal)

I'm next in line to get a 32 spline, fixed rear output for the 205. All I have to pay is shipping. Hopefully the other dude will fall through!

squisher

08-20-2008, 08:18 PM

Lol, that beat rover pic cracks me up. My best friend from highschools dad had a rover and it was somewhat similar :lol:. I remember part of the front end being held together with rope!:O

Also if memory serves they had some kind of a weird winching type set-up where a bar went on the outside of the rim and as the tires spun from being stuck it would wind up your line and pull you out?

Paul B

08-20-2008, 08:55 PM

That looks like a buildable rig Frans.

I still fancy the Mog's (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.promotex.ca/articles/cawthon/2003/images/10-15-2003d.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.promotex.ca/articles/cawthon/2003/10-15-2003_article.html&h=579&w=252&sz=34&hl=en&start=35&um=1&tbnid=D8w1f0zs1E-jEM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=58&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dloaded%2Bunimog%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3 D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rls%3Dcom.mi crosoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7GGLJ%26sa%3DN) though, might be a while before I get me one though.
http://www.obus-ew.de/pew_db-unimog%20427-10_05_al011024.jpg

ha, found a decent pic for comparison sake, a Unimog 404 vs a smaller rig (G unit)...

http://www.boss-truck.com/images/unimog_gallery.jpg

http://www.promotex.ca/articles/cawthon/2003/images/10-15-2003e.jpg

cybergeek23851

08-20-2008, 10:18 PM

You're worried about a 135lb T case? A single tire weighs 3x that, the tranny weighs 40lbs more.

The LoMax is a new case and gears, even stronger than the stock 205's setup.

If'n you are looking for gear reduction and weight savings as well... Atlas II from Advance Adapters. Custom built to your specs, and comparable in price, while utilizing a machined aluminum case. ;)

AA will also have most adapters you'd be looking for drivetrain wise.

https://eshop.advanceadapters.com/commerce/ccpc1116-2165-28p-n-atlas6029-atlas-transfer-case-6-03a1-low-range-atlas60-atlas60.htm

lumberjack

08-20-2008, 10:40 PM

I don't care about the weight, plus, the LoMax is quite a bit stronger than the Atlas, more versital, as well as (slightly) cheaper. Still gotta have an adapter!

Weight is nowhere near a concearn.

arborworks1

08-20-2008, 10:47 PM

OFF topic but the unimog with a southco body would be a choice rig. Little bit too much money for the treeman though. Course you would definetly have your advertising gimmic.

Frans

08-21-2008, 11:03 AM

pinzgaur! lighter than a unimog, but the same or better off road capabilities. Just not the same capacities

Paul B

08-21-2008, 11:06 AM

cool Frans, I think I snagged a video of one of those in the random media thread when I was flooding it last night :)

Thor's Hammer

08-21-2008, 02:00 PM

Penis Car!

Frans

08-21-2008, 05:59 PM

Ed, could you tell me a bit about this:

LT95 from a 101 FC

I think you mentioned something about this tranny, but I forgot.

lumberjack

08-22-2008, 12:17 AM

...They have 203 adapters for $275...

...The rear T case will run around $1300...

...Hopefully I can get a 203 with a 32 spline input, otherwise changing the input shaft will run $155...

I'll have the adapter next week for $200.

I'll have the parts to do the LoMax for $1200. Found a 205 on the way to the axles that has 32 spline outputs, just what I needed for the LoMax Case.

I'll have a 32 spline 203 for $150 this weekend.

I just SAVED $225! :lol:

I'll still have to get the SM465 mainshaft ($250), doubler ($770), and LoMax ($1100) and I'll have the bellhousing to the Tcase yokes completed.

Tonight I got to thinking about my 1993 Chevy 3/4T with a 454 and 5 speed. It's been a year+ since I've used the truck, I spend $50 a month insuring it, and it's only worth $3500ish.....

The 454 puts out a respectable 365hp and 415lbs of torque bone stock, it can mate up to the SM465 no problem, it's fuel injected for better manners at odd angles, and it's paid for....

The tranny w/ bell housing and T case may be worth $1k, the bed is worth a few hundred, $54 less overhead a month......

RIVERRAT

08-22-2008, 03:26 AM

I'm not a big parabolic fan, but that's not supprising. They are smoother and more flexiable, at the expense of load carrying capacity.

Jeff would like them! :P

Any other pictures?
YUP!!..:lol:

lumberjack

08-22-2008, 11:37 PM

I bought 4 flanged yokes for the axle's pinions. I only need 2, but if I ever break one, having a spare would be nice eh?

$105 shipped, should be here Wed.

The 465/203 adapter should be here Thursdayish.

Frans

08-22-2008, 11:45 PM

Go man go! looking forward to seeing all those parts put together

lumberjack

08-23-2008, 12:10 AM

Me too! I head out tomorrow to get the axles and the 2 donor t cases :)

lumberjack

08-24-2008, 11:57 PM

Back home with the axles and t cases!

Car with me curbs at 2890, trailer is 800, coming back in MS I went across our scales that weren't in use. The combined 5900lbs :lol:

I couldn't believe the hills/mountains of the Ozarks, on the way to St Louis I had no idea that there was that laying just to my west as I cruised up 55. I sure found out today!

Still wasn't too bad, only one hill on a side road when I was picking up the first t case with the axles in tow was pushing it. Coming down in 1st gear, engine spinning 6k and still having to ride the brakes was fun. Going back up was a first gear thing, the split between 1 and 2 dropped the engine back out of it's power band and that wasn't fun, 1st gear had the tires scratching their way up the pass.

Beautiful country the Ozarks be.

Paul B

08-25-2008, 12:56 AM

LJ you are a pioneer.

6000rpms in first? dang, betcha wish you had a Ferarri on the bizniss end of that!
http://www.macarbon.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/9fc97ab7862a782de3348bb8b31bae74.jpg

lumberjack

08-25-2008, 01:11 AM

6k isn't read lining, and I wasn't accelerating I was using some engine breaking. That Horse has about 1300rpm to the redline over the ole Civic. I bet that Horse would do better pulling up the passes though, if for nothing else the closer ratio tranny.

You know what the red strip is for on the wheel?

lumberjack

08-25-2008, 01:22 AM

I saw this Blazer (for sale or trade) on the way through the mountains, stopped and looked it over. A lot of boootyfab, but the tires are the same as I'll be getting in a couple weeks, except mine have some (about 85% more than you see here) tread left on the carcas. I still gotta find wheels but that style is fine with me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05152r.jpg

At normal ride height, mine will sit about a foot lower, and my wheel base will be at least 10" longer, most likely my rear axle will be set back, but we'll check that out later. The door's lock cylinder is at about 6'3-4".

lumberjack

08-25-2008, 03:16 AM

Getting near time for bed, going to add that is the truck you use to haul the previously mentioned "cartoon wood."

MasterBlaster

08-25-2008, 06:22 AM

You know what the red strip is for on the wheel?

What?

Paul B

08-25-2008, 11:41 AM

its for the driver to know when the wheel is centered. :) I think NASCAR uses that as well in many cars but I cant guarantee that, I dont watch that series.

lumberjack

08-25-2008, 01:15 PM

Pauly be correct!

RIVERRAT

08-25-2008, 01:29 PM

Carl, I look forword to seeing some movie clips of you getting this truck dirty. When you finish with it!!

Have wanted to do something like this myself. But I have a boat project that is a bit more important to me.... Its fun reading about your build & scrounging up the pieces.

lumberjack

08-25-2008, 01:59 PM

Yesterday's haul, 2240lbs of parts :)

Donor 205 on the left, donor 203 on the right. Had to carry that 205 275' through knee high grass. Wasn't happy about that in the slightest.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05162.jpg

Frans

08-25-2008, 05:05 PM

I'm glad I was not driving behind you :lol: That little trailer bouncing along the freeway, at least a Ton of cold iron being held by little cheap ass hardware store straps.

I tell you, I woulda changed lanes real quick :)

Glad you (and everyone else) got back safely. Those axles look awesome.
When you get done, tell me where you park the beast at night, woulda? I might need them axles for my rig. 8):D

My rover project keeps changing. Got a call from another guy with one, so gotta check that one out.

lumberjack

08-25-2008, 05:50 PM

No bouncing, and yeah, those straps were chinsy but they held up. Nothing moved and I tried to sling it around. I didn't grab my 2" straps because it was raining when I left. Bought those in Wally World where I spent the night, found out the next morning they were really cheesy.

You can take them, they're insured by Glock ;)

lumberjack

08-25-2008, 11:21 PM

Just won these puppies, 90% tread.

They run near $1500 a piece new. I'm getting all 4 for $550 delivered to Memphis. The Civic will be making another run!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Michelin16R20.jpg

Paul B

08-25-2008, 11:23 PM

those on the civic? PICS!!!!

:D

ps. what size are they and sorry but I dont recognize the tread, what tires are they LJ?

RIVERRAT

08-25-2008, 11:27 PM

:dude::dude:Carl...OH..Carl..from the looks of those axles YOU BE SERIUOS:dude::dude:

Can I ask what you had to give for um?

lumberjack

08-25-2008, 11:48 PM

53"x16(wide)x20". Same tire as on the blue truck I posted above. That was the main reason I posted that picture!

I gave $1550. I'll get back $25 or so in scrap, $50ish for the zipper boots, maybe $50 for the two tie rods, and $500 or so for the axle shafts.

I'll be replacing the scrap metal with wheel brakes ($6-800ish), $100 for one piece boots (forgot the zipper boots, $8.95 to get them to me, $8.95 to send them to whoever buys them, they are normally $35 a piece, one piece boots don't leak, cost $25, but are a bitch to install, you'll see later on), $600ish for the front/rear hydro steering that replaces the tie rod, and a cool $4500 for front and rear 2", 42 spline axle shafts and lockers.

That puts me at $6725 for two full hydro, 2" shafted, 4 wheel disc brakes, locked 2.5T Rocks. I'll be doing the shaft conversion later to say the least. First things first I'm getting the tires and wheels (wheels look like they are going to $uck) so I can start designing and building the suspension, frame, ect. The 2" shafts can be done after the truck is together and I have money. If I run the stock shafts and break them, I'm out the $500 I would make off selling them.

I might run a pinion brake on the rear axle, haven't decided yet.

In the mean while, I'm going to get the stock brakes off and mohawk the center section, that's basically free.

Frans

08-25-2008, 11:58 PM

You are a young man on the go!

I guess you may already know about this web site;
http://www.pirate4x4.com/welcome1.php

RIVERRAT

08-26-2008, 12:01 AM

You are a young man on the go!

I guess you may already know about this web site;
http://www.pirate4x4.com/welcome1.php Best offroad sight out there. This is turning out to be a killer thread!

lumberjack

08-26-2008, 12:16 AM

Nope, never heard of it!

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/member.php?u=116416

Frans

08-26-2008, 12:31 AM

Here is LJ at the support meeting for rock crawlers anonymous:

"Hello, my name is LJ, and today I crawled over rocks, it felt good'. :)

lumberjack

08-26-2008, 12:36 AM

More into mud/trails, mainly because that's all we have around here.

Going to do my best to make it more all purpose than strickly mud though. Tall is tippy and that's stupid.

lumberjack

08-26-2008, 12:32 PM

Got the big bastids unloaded in the shop. Going to town in a bit to run a couple errands for dad. While I'm out I'm going to pick up 8 casters for axle stands. Getting the axles safely off the ground a 3-4' will make them way easier to strip and work on. Then I can use the stands to position them under the truck.

Learned that lesson with the front axle of the tractor. Getting it back in, working in the dirt, uphill, with it's 38" tires mounted, was quite the workout.

The uphill part wasn't my idea when we parked the tractor to pull the axle.

Paul B

08-26-2008, 12:49 PM

dont forget to get a lemonade when you are in town, you have to keep hydrated!

lumberjack

08-26-2008, 12:54 PM

Haha, the UPS was driving up as you were typing that.

The delivery was for 40 gallons of Crystal Light lemonade mix.

The last shipment was 80 gallons worth in May.

Paul B

08-26-2008, 01:07 PM

hahaha! wicked timing. thats a lotta mix, is the powdered stuff not to your fancy? Or, and I know this is a longshot, you could use actual lemons. :P

lumberjack

08-26-2008, 01:24 PM

It's a powder. 2 little foil covered tubs about the size of a honey mustard thing you'd get from Wendy's or the like.

I think you'd be hard pressed to get enough lemons to make 40 gallons of lemonade for under the $41 it cost delievered. Plus the time savings.

You Canucks, lemons in your lemonade! That, that's wild!

cybergeek23851

08-26-2008, 02:25 PM

Here is LJ at the support meeting for rock crawlers anonymous:

"Hello, my name is LJ, and today I crawled over rocks, it felt good'. :)

Uhhh SNARF... it's Tuesday...!

We rake mudders, especially newb mudders over the coals on Tuesday on Pirate.... I'm not kidding either. :O

lumberjack

08-26-2008, 02:34 PM

I thought Tues was the newbs ask stupid questions and get charred day?

cybergeek23851

08-26-2008, 02:37 PM

So far, it's been quiet...

Now, being that I've posted this, there will be a newb to post in Chit-chat, where they will be promptly be flamed.

lumberjack

08-26-2008, 06:09 PM

The flaming is retarded to me.

I got the axle stand made, sans casters. I figured out that the casters won't be needed for a while as what I'm doing now is all stationary work.

To do list on the axles;
Pull stock brakes
Pull the hubs and spindles
Remove axle shafts
Remove stock boot guard
Remove what's left of the boots
Remove the stock steering arm
Remove center section
Roll housing over and mohawk
Remove stock tie rod
Remove knuckles, install one piece boots
Reinstall knuckles, axle shafts and spindles
Get and install brake rotors, calipers can be done later.
Reinstall hubs
Install hydro cylinder and links, burn in mounts
Remove hydro cylinder and links
Clean housing and paint.
Repeat on the other axle.

Will probably get the axles down to the disc brake point, each corner will cost about $200-$250. Each steering cylinder is $200.

Going to pick the tires up in a couple weeks, he may have wheels on the cheap ($100 a piece) that I'll have to cut the center out and weld in one with the correct pattern.

Get the tires and wheels paid for, and it's time to start saving money to buy my rifle back from arborworks1 in October assuming he's still wanting to give it up at that point. I'll need about $1700 more than I presently have saved for that. In the mean while I'm looking for good deals on parts, but I still gotta be ready for the rifle.

Get that taken care of and I'll get the brakes and the axle portion of the hydro steering worked out. Recover from that and it's time to start fabbing up the new frame (or subframe, haven't decided which), cage and suspension. I figure I'll be at this point around the first quarter of 09, unless work is good to me and I get money faster than I expect. I figure the frame, cage, and suspension will set me back at least $4k including a tubing bender. I'll probably invest in a MIG welder to speed the process up. The 100amp Lincoln Core Pro can only do so much and I really don't feel like using the Miller Thunderbolt to stick weld all of that.

The suspension, I'm thinking hard about an inverted 3 link (2 parallel on top and a backwards wishbone below). The benifits of the inverted wishbone is excellent drive shaft protection, by way of the fact that the delta shaped link can have a skid plate welded/bolted to the bottom of it. The parallel upper links allow (most of) the adjustability of a 4 link. They also handle locating the axle side to side in conjunction with the wishbone. By splitting the loads up, I can probably use smaller (cheaper) joints all around. Another idea is called a one link suspension, using a wishbone/delta with the 2 ends welded(or bolted) to the axle. The wishbone handles both fore and aft control of the axle, as well as the torque reaction. Side loads would be controlled with a panhard bar. Two disadvantages are that there is very limited adjustability in the wishbone/1 point swing arm, and two, the loads on the one point are substantially higher, meaning I'd need quite a large joint ($), but, only one for each suspension (1 front/1 rear). The cost will just about wash out in that regard. I'm not a big fan of panhard bars however, I don't like the lateral shift as the move through their arc, and the roll center is/can be higher. Using a suffeciently long bar that's parallel with the axle will negate this.

Think that's it for now :)

Paul B

08-26-2008, 06:13 PM

Personally I think we need more details Carl. I mean shit, do you expect us to just imagine all this stuff up?

LOL.

here is a dream rig for someone. not me but someone out there must want a busted ass truck with MR T in the back, no?

:D

http://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/assets/resources/2008/01/Mr_T_Snickers_Pickup.jpg

lumberjack

08-26-2008, 06:24 PM

Oh yeah, tools that would be nice.

Drill press, although I'd rather get a Bridgeport. A drill press will nearly be required for the tabs/brackets of the frame/cage/suspension.

Lathe, not required, but it'd go well with my Bridgeport.

A bandsaw would also be nice, but not required.

Tubing bender, figure I'll make one to use the JD2's Model 4 dies. I don't have a problem with the price, if it had the ability to make 90* one shot bends. With different geomety 90* is easily doable, and I can do that for less money (especially if I have a drill press) than it would cost to buy it. I'm pondering using the mini as a power source for the bender.

Tube notcher, although I've been hearing good things about using band/chop/dry saws instead. In that case I'll just need a vice.

Mig welder, something with enough power to get into spray welding (250amps+). Spray is optional, but it will be nice for the heavy plate frame that serves as a base for the suspensions, roll cage, engine cage, and the foundation for the powertrain.

Plasma, although I'm looking at TIG/Arc/Plasma combo units. Figuring a 60 amp plasma and a 200 amp Tig. I already have the Miller for stick welding up to 225 amps.

lumberjack

08-26-2008, 06:30 PM

Ha Pauly.

I'm also using this thread to keep track of my ideas.

Today when I was building the engine stand I had planned to set the cross memeber at an angle from the bottom of one side to the top of another side. The reasons were A: it would clear the center section B: make saving the metal in the cross member easier and C: offer more lateral stabilty.

I tacked the member in on the floor (getting it lined up), when I set it on the table, I kinda dropped it, breaking the tacks. Getting it back at the right angle was going to be a PITA on the table, so I just welded it across the bottom of the saddles.

Sure enough, when I went to lower the axle on the stand, the effin dome under the center section didn't like the cross memeber in the way.

For giggles I turned the stand upside down, (the saddles are about 1/2-1/3 the length of the feet) and set the axle on top of it. Supprisingly stable, but it looked rediculous and strapping the axle down was going to be harder.

:lol:

Paul B

08-26-2008, 06:32 PM

Just wish I was you neighbor, you would have an awesome rental, I mean borrow rating with the local handymans.

sawinredneck

08-26-2008, 07:46 PM

Why no love for the pinion brakes Carl? I always thought they would be the shit! (I've never used the either though!)

You can get a Bridgeport clone cheap enough, we have a "Birmingham" at work, it's not what I am used to, but gets the job done. Around $3500 I think?
Tooling is what kills you!!

lumberjack

08-26-2008, 08:43 PM

Pinion brakes suck, but are cheap. I could have pinion brakes on both axles for about $300, that's the advantage unless you're using them as parking brakes. Another advantage could be they are higher up and thus out of the mud.

The downsides are they are either on or off, not nearly as smooth. Secondly, unless you run a spool, the braking can get weird. Third, the backlash assembly can get you rocking when you come to a stop. Fourth, they completely suck at higher speeds, they overheat in a hurry, Conservation of Energy and all.

I was thinking a used Bridgeport off Craigs or Ebay.

Any pointers as to what I'm looking for? I don't have 3 phase, although a converter might be worth it if the price is right on the mill. (Or a motor swap)

cybergeek23851

08-26-2008, 09:27 PM

Carl... Used 3ph devices like lathes and knee mills are dirt cheap typically, because unless a person has 3 phase power, they are likely not to buy them. Otherwise the 2 options are a phase converter(either static or rotary) or a motor swap.

JD2 makes a good bender

As for plasmas, I'd look for Thermal Dynamics or Hypertherm. I liked the Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 51 that I used to use for teaching purposes while working at the college. I'd go with what you can find parts for in your area.
http://cgi.ebay.com/THERMAL-DYNAMICS-CUTMASTER-52-PLASMA-CUTTER-1-5130-1_W0QQitemZ160274608313QQihZ006QQcategoryZ113743QQ tcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Welders... you can never go wrong with Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, or ESAB(if available). I cut my teeth on the precursor to the Millermatic 251(replaced with the 252), the 250X.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLERMATIC-252-MIG-WELDER-COMPLETE-PACKAGE-NEW-907321_W0QQitemZ350091166174QQihZ022QQcategoryZ113 743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Killer deal on an ESAB
http://cgi.ebay.com/ESAB-MIGMASTER-253-MIG-WELDER-PKG-0558005370_W0QQitemZ160274287304QQihZ006QQcategory Z113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and the Lincoln Electric PowerMig 255
http://cgi.ebay.com/LINCOLN-POWER-MIG-255XT-MIG-WELDER-PKG-K2701-1_W0QQitemZ350090764032QQihZ022QQcategoryZ113743QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

sawinredneck

08-26-2008, 10:04 PM

Thank you for answering that question Carl!

Most three phase motors can be re-wired single phase. Hopefully Al will chime in, he is much brighter at this than I!
But phase inverters are getting cheap.

Look at the older Bridgeports with the step pulley. same machine and build, you just have to change the belt on the pulleys to get the RPM right. They are usually a lot tighter machine (Old timers take care of the equipment better) and a LOT cheaper. $2500 or less will get a NICE one!!
If you really want variable speed, I fell totaly in love with the Aliant mills, I WANT one bad!!! I think they are built better than the Bridgeport.
But honestly, if taken care of, any of them are fine choices, I have run about every brand out there and made some very nice parts on these machines.

lumberjack

08-26-2008, 10:39 PM

I saw the ESAB earlier, what makes it a killer deal? It seems comparable to the 252 in performance but $500 cheaper?

No problem with the brake question Andy.

:)

ETA:
I've thought about getting a Ready Welder and powering it with my Miller Thunderbolt.

When I was building the steel ramps for the mini I used the Lincoln as a wire feeder and hooked the Miller to it. Thus far the welds are holding up like champs, I guess a weld test should be on order to see if that's a viable option.

A RW would suck because it's heavy and only holds a 1-2lb spool.

ETAx2, I could set up a jig to transfer wire from a 10 or 33lb spool to the 1lb spool to save in the expense.

ETAx3I can presently get a Miller 12vs suicase wire feeder for $1200, a wee bit of overkill, but it would work with my Thunderbolt (20% @150amps, 25VDC). The 12VS normally goes for $2k and it's rated to take 60% at 425amps. I only mention it because it's an honesty wire feeder that's made to take constant current or constant voltage(Like a Ready Welder, minus the spool gun and a couple times the capacity) that's at a reasonable price used.

Frans

08-27-2008, 12:24 AM

I have been looking at this:
http://www.gianttechplasmacutter.com/

It is a combination plasma cutter, arc welder, and tig welder. Under 900 bucks. Made in China, but supposed to be a good unit for light to medium jobs.

I have seen alot of massive milling machines in the metal scrap yards. Talked with this guy who said that so much of this type of work has gone overseas, that you can pick up units for pennies on the dollar.

lumberjack

08-27-2008, 12:37 AM

I've also considered a similar product from a vender on Pirate. Mainly for the TIG and Plasma.

RIVERRAT

08-27-2008, 12:54 AM

I saw the ESAB earlier, what makes it a killer deal? It seems comparable to the 252 in performance but $500 cheaper?

Just be sure you take a look at the size of the fan that cools it. The higher grade MiG machines have bigger & or a more efficient cooling system. That costs more $ & keeps a smile on your face longer.

cybergeek23851

08-27-2008, 10:37 AM

I've also considered a similar product from a vender on Pirate. Mainly for the TIG and Plasma.

Giant Tech as well as Parker are vendors on Pirate.

lumberjack

08-27-2008, 01:50 PM

I think I just figured out the wheels for the Michelins!

I pondered using a stock M35A2 wheel, but the weird backspacing might be an issue and I wasn't sure how wide they were (need 10" for the Michelins). Those wheels are way way cheaper, like $25-35 a piece.

Looking at the blue truck, I knew whoever built that wouldn't spend $350+ per wheel. Just now I got to looking at the pictures and sure enough, he used those wheels. The downside is the weird backspacing, but it might not be an issue to run the turned in (9-10" of back space). The only downside to running them turned out would be the increased width, although that might not be terrible either.

Compare:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05152r.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/DSC05148.jpg

M35A2:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/M35A2.jpg

I got the flanged yokes for the Rocks in today, 4 (2 spares) for $105 delivererd. They look like NOS.

lumberjack

08-27-2008, 03:32 PM

So far I've found that I can get them in Memphis for $98.64 (Probably + tax)a piece when I pick the up the tires. They have already been cleaned and repainted.

In Texarkana,Ar/TX I can get them for $35 a piece, Texark is 277 miles from Memphis. I'm wanting 6 tires and wheels (2 spares). That means $600 in Memphis, or $210+$58 to drive the Civic down (+$16 to take the trailer) to get them before or after I get the tires in Memphis. About 7.5 hours round trip from Memphis to Texarkana and back. 3 hours one way from here to Memphis.

Waiting to hear from a company located on the way to Atlanta before I make my decision. I'll be going through there in October if not September, or, they are closer than Texark to Memphis (120 miles round trip, $46/$57).

lumberjack

08-27-2008, 06:53 PM

Texarkana it is @$35. I'll call them tomorrow to reserve them and ask if they have a truck headed to Little Rock or Memphis, to throw them on it :).

Tallapoosa was $75 a wheel, fwiw.

GASoline71

08-27-2008, 07:33 PM

Cool Carlito...

Are you gonna use a big hydraulic assist on your steering setup?

Gary

lumberjack

08-27-2008, 07:35 PM

Running full hydro front and rear using doubled ended cylinders.

Just went out and measured, I can fit at least 4 wheels in the truck, maybe all 6 with the back seat still up.

lumberjack

08-27-2008, 07:39 PM

Here's the cylinder, 2.5" bore, 10" stroke, 1.5" shaft, 1570lbs of force @ 1kpsi. It pushes against the 7-9" steering arm (haven't measured) makes for alot of turning force on the tires at a lower system pressure (more reliable). You can't tell in the picture, but the shaft sticks out both ends, thus replacing the tie rod. The ends of the rod are threaded to take hemi shackles which I've yet to source.

3kpsi max, $210 a piece.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Steeringcylinder.jpg

With luck the steering will be behind the front axle and in front of the rear, both cylinders and the majority of the links being protected by the wishbone's skid plate and no tierod to worry about bending.

lumberjack

08-27-2008, 10:18 PM

Holy crap.

I can get a set front and rear Rocks for $900. Trying to decide if I want them.

ETA:
Sent him an offer based on some contingencies. The axles are in really good condition, come with 4 wheels that I need, 2 driveshafts I can use, leaf springs which I don't need, a front reseal kit that I need, and that he can deliever them to Memphis this weekend on his way to Primm for a race (he mentioned Primm, Memphis is on the way). Under $50 to go get them from Memphis, I wouldn't be able to haul them back with the tires, the brakes and springs will nearly pay for the gas.

Figuring $67 per wheel from Texarka $268
Drive shafts per Ebay $200
Reseal Kit $121

So that's $950 to get them, $624 parts that I already need and planed to buy and a little scrap (450lbs or so). That leaves an invested amount of $326, which the money from the Suburban will cover. The set of axles normally goes for $1000-1200 which is enough for the LoMax transfer case kit, or I could keep what I want (center sections mainly) and sell the rest (mainly the axle shafts).

Just needed to work out the math, thanks for the bandwidth.

RIVERRAT

08-27-2008, 11:56 PM

Dang Carl thats pretty cheap

lumberjack

08-28-2008, 12:06 AM

We'll see if I get them or not, waiting to hear from the guy, will probably be tomorrow.

At one point I thought about doing an 8x8x8, but that would be too wicked methinks. A 6x6x4 would be interesting, but still a bit too wild. Designing a suspension that would be good in the rocks/trails would be a doozy how I'm currently thinking.

Frans

08-28-2008, 12:28 AM

http://www.foleyspecialistvehicles.co.uk/index2.htm

lumberjack

08-28-2008, 12:33 AM

The roll over vid? I'm planning on a cage, but it might end up being a full tilt buggy if I can figure out how to inclose it at least partially (windshield and tall boat sides). Don'y want to freeze my nads off in the winter, and I don't want to wear the mud anytime.

Frans

08-28-2008, 10:37 AM

LJ, why not save some money and buy this instead?
:D

MasterBlaster

08-28-2008, 10:46 AM

I wish I had money to burn. I must be doing something wrong...

Frans

08-28-2008, 10:51 AM

I wish I had money to burn. I must be doing something wrong...

Must be, otherwise you could buy this!

A steal at 65 grand

**** ( UNBELIEVABLE FULLY RESTORED & BETTER THAN NEW ) ****
1976 Mercedes Benz 416 DOKA diesel Very Rare and custom rig
STREET LEGAL AND REGISTERED
*Ground up restoration by the Unimog warehouse * impeccable condition
*20 Speed transmission
*Portal high speed axles
*1 off custom built camper shell (sleeps 3) / tons of storage
*Fresh water
*4000 watt inverter-can power microwave oven
*Custom stereo system
*On board GPS
*15000 lb Warn winch ( never been used )
*75 Gallon aluminum fuel cell
*4 Optima Red Top batteries
*6 new 44 inch tires
Comparable UNIMOG's this nice have sold for over $100k. Take this one to the car show or the middle of nowhere and back - its qualified for both.
A bargain @ $65,000 U.S dollars and should continue to increase in value as the Crew Cab Doka's are very rare.
Serious buyers call anytime-ALL RESONABLE offers considered (NO TRADES) 877-469-3629
click for more pic's = <a href="http://s258.photobucket.com/albums/hh252/dmaxstore/Dmax%20Adds/Unimog/"
(search words) rock crawler-4x4-duramax diesel-ford superduty-dodge cummins-pwerstroke-chevrolet-gmc-jeep-landcruiser-bronco-military vehicle

MasterBlaster

08-28-2008, 10:59 AM

That's one crazy sweet looking ride. I especially like the inverter!

Fresh water?

lumberjack

08-28-2008, 11:39 AM

Imagine it's a camper, if that's what you're wondering about the fresh water.

I'm 2nd in line on the axles, seal kit doesn't come with them and the front has the weaker style joint (still 50% stronger than a 60's 1480).

They're going to call the fab shop that wants them to see if they still do, if not I figure I'll still take them. If they do want the axles, I offered $200 for the wheels and drive shafts.

There's a guy 3rd in line, if the fab shop falls through, I might get them, keep the wheels, lug nuts, and shafts, and let him take the axles for the $900.

The lug nuts are $3 a piece, $72 for the 24.

lumberjack

08-29-2008, 12:18 AM

The axles are looking like they are going to be mine.

The seller mentioned they were going to be charged $200 to haul the axles on a trailer that's already carrying their vehicles (they are paying for the trailer to haul their toys to the desert) the 500 miles from Bristol to Memphis on a path the driver is already taking. I'm fine if they want to pay that, but I aint, they can keep them.

Another note, thinking of going full tilt boogy buggy instead of a truggy. I'm trying to estimate how much metal I'd need to build the chassis. Thinking a 3 or 4 seater, 118" wheel base minimum, and damn near nothing hanging past the tires (approach and departure angles over 90*.

Do my eye's deceive me or is there no effing way there's 250' of tubing in this chassis?

The chassis is for sale but I have no intention of buying it. I told the seller that (not so frankly :)) and asked how many feet of tubing he used, he said 250', more when it was finished. See below for the 2 pm's.

12' long end to end, widest point is 4'7" (55"). I'm seeing maybe 150' in that frame, probably closer to 120'.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Coloradotubechassis.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Mud%20Truck/Coloradotubechassis2.jpg

Originally Posted by lumberjack1986
You're too far for me, but could you estimate the amount of tubing you have in the chassis?

Thanks

Carl

His reply.
i think around 250',when your totally finished a little more.thanks

Jonseredbred

08-29-2008, 08:45 AM

Carl a few years ago before we stopped playing with dirt oval race cars we had about 150' in a IMCA mod wich uses stock frame and front clip. That chassis there has way more tube in it.

lumberjack

08-29-2008, 10:19 AM

200' of 1.75"x.120" DOM, 100' of 2.5"x.125", and 100' of 1.5"x.120" DOM would be $3453 from Metals Depot, delivered. Surely that would be enough metal to do the chassis.

I'm figuring the bigger stuff for the main rail and sub frame for the suspension, the 1.75" for the majority of the cage, and the 1.5" (or 1.25") for the tubing where smaller would be better (like reinforcements that serve as grab rails).

Jonseredbred

08-29-2008, 11:46 AM

How are you going to set up a jig? You are gonna need some hefty I beam to clamp and anchor the chassis to. Keep in mind you only want to tack the chassis together, dont finish the welds until you have it all together.

lumberjack

08-29-2008, 01:00 PM

Most fabs I've seen are jigless aside from a cart to help move the works around and give a jig of sorts to get the bottom tube in place to build off of.

Otherwise, the only jigs I've seen are used to hold a piece in place to be tacked, but otherwise a 3 deminsional jig I haven't seen, unless I'm not tracking whatcher talking about.

10-4 on the tacking before the burning. It'll be at least 6 months before I'm to the chassis building phase. I want to get all the major driveline pieces (engine through t case, axles, and tires) so I can build the chassis around them. Rocks pinions are super high, so the chassis will need to be designed to make room for the axles to stuff as tight as possible.

I'm not sure on the route I'm going to go on the suspension, but I'd like the ability to have forced articulation as well as the ability to lift a tire (assuming the COG will allow). Basically have the ability to pull the tires up, or push them down on all 4 corners. That way I can have a super flexy rig when I need it without the disadvantages when I don't.

Looking at the concrete divider on the bypass yesterday, I'd like to be able to cross it using the suspension to raise the belly of the rig.

Anywho, still trying to plan everything out. Cheaper to think before act, or so I've heard.

Jonseredbred

08-29-2008, 10:21 PM

The only reason you need a jig or heavy iron to hold down the chassis is something to clamp to and keep the build level and square. A cart won't keep it level and square , all that pipe fab will get away from you and it will get twisted up no matter how careful you are.

Frans

08-29-2008, 11:19 PM

Guy that works for me is up at/in the Rubicon right now. He built up a Blaze cage. Then he had to buy a truck and trailer to haul it. Thing about him is that he is not happy unless something breaks :)

lumberjack

08-30-2008, 12:55 AM

RIVERRAT

08-30-2008, 01:13 AM

Ah, in that instance regard I plan on using the cart to hold the bottom true using screws for leveling in both directions. Use a couple of digital angle finders to reference the angles and I should be able to keep things straight eh?

The topic brought up here is the same as one argued among aluminum river boat builders.
Your heat,tacking & the sequence with which you weld controls the twisting & out of true crap that can happen.
A solid jig comes into play big time for mass production. The home builder can build very acceptable projects with out one.

Just dont spend a lot of time welding on one side. Make your frame is tacked properly. Big areas in most cases get fully welded first etc.

Frans

08-30-2008, 11:19 AM

Up in Fort Bragg where Gerry lives, they have a yard where they build these all alum. boats. Sure look nice

lumberjack

08-31-2008, 03:49 PM

What do we think of a new Millermatic 185 w/ Spoolmate185, tank (filled), and 20lbs of wire (.023 and .035) for $850?

It looks like the spool gun is about $500 by itself eh? Looks like a 40% duty cycle at 185 amps, 60% at 150, and it shows 35% at 195 amps, although it's only rated to 185. Not quite enough balls to spray mild steel.

sawinredneck

08-31-2008, 04:34 PM

They are a VERY nice welder. Welds 3/16" and 1/4" single pass easily. It would be great for youre tube chassis!
For all of that Carl, I'd think you a fool for not jumping on it!!!
The smaller unit I was looking at, the 110v 135, was $535 (I think?) new.

lumberjack

08-31-2008, 04:51 PM

I was looking at the 252, but for the $1420 difference I can live with 105 less amps (1/2" single pass) and get a Spectrum 375 plasma, and have enough money left to buy half a drill press or money towards a TIG.

I was thinking I won't be welding aluminum. I might try getting $400-450 out of the new spool gun. I could certainly deal with a $450 Miller 185amp MIGger. It's just shy of the Miller 212 that's in current production.

According to the manual the limit is 3/8" on a single pass. Although it's rated to 185, it goes to 195 and still sports a better duty cycle than my Thunderbolt packing 45 more amps. I rarely go over 1/4", but I'm pretty handy at developing welds.

I'm taking it. I'll pick it up next time I go to ATL.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Welding/attachment.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Welding/attachment-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/10mmsheepdog/Welding/attachment-1.jpg

Jonseredbred

08-31-2008, 07:20 PM

I have a new 252, how much did you get quoted for a new one???

cybergeek23851

08-31-2008, 07:22 PM

I was looking at the 252, but for the $1420 difference I can live with 105 less amps (1/2" single pass) and get a Spectrum 375 plasma, and have enough money left to buy half a drill press or money towards a TIG.

I was thinking I won't be welding aluminum. I might try getting $400-450 out of the new spool gun. I could certainly deal with a $450 Miller 185amp MIGger. It's just shy of the Miller 212 that's in current production.

Carl... never say never. ;) I never thought I'd need to do aluminum, but now I'm getting into it, and need to get set up with a tig eventually to do so(thin work... not plate).

As for the plasma, there are better options. Millers are ok, but are over rated as to how well they perform. I'd still recommend looking some more. This isn't just talk, it's what I've seen in demo'ing units for the college here in town. I'd still look towards Hypertherm and Thermal Dynamics.