Threadbare

[Bounce]

It's been too long since I've seen a new thread in felling and rigging, so I'm starting one just to keep the juices flowing. When you guys pull a piece over against it's lean, what do you use and why?

If it's just a small top or short trunk and I don't need a ton of power, I usually just use a quick 2:1 advantage with a couple biners. Here's a pic from the catalog (orange sling usually gets anchored to another tree at ground level):

[Bounce]

If it's a bigger piece or has a lot of lean I'm pulling against, I like to use a Maasdam continuous rope puller come-along. I stopped using my truck after I watched it get dragged across somebody's lawn by a tree that weighed a good deal more than the truck. That was a bad day. Sometimes I even use the 2:1 system with the rope puller on it, doubling the power of my come along.

[Mr. Sir]

I always put pulleys on the biners. Easier pulling, less friction.

[pete mctree]

Is that a revolver krab you are yousing on the 2 to 1?

[wiley_p]

z-rig is standard, sometimes a 4:1 piggyback, sometimes reeve a 4:1 in front of the GRCS, still use a truck often, just need to use a tail hold, and have a porty on the receiver.I'd say the first two get the job done 90% of the time.

[Bounce]

Yup, revolver with built in pulleys.

[pete mctree]

what knot are you using? I prefer the alpine butterfly

[NickfromWI]

what knot are you using? I prefer the alpine butterfly

I prefer a slip knot- easier to remove. Or better yet, a slip knot on a bight.

love
nick

[Mr. Sir]

Yup, revolver with built in pulleys.

Built in pulleys??? Haven't seen one of those animals yet.

[Skwerl]

Here you go Brett, leeched from Wesspur's website.

http://www.wesspur.com/images/product/a238_01_500.gif

http://www.wesspur.com/Carabiners/accessory-carabiners.html
second from the bottom.

[Mr. Sir]

Here you go Brett, leeched from Wesspur's website.

http://www.wesspur.com/images/product/a238_01_500.gif

http://www.wesspur.com/Carabiners/accessory-carabiners.html
second from the bottom.

Cool! The gate looks pretty flimsy though. What are they rated? Pretty slick for a speed line, eh? What else would you use them for?

[Frans]

p or short trunk and I don't need a ton of power, I usually just use a quick 2:1 advantage with a couple biners. Here's a pic from the catalog (orange sling usually gets anchored to another tree at ground level):


If you really want to go basic, just use a truckers hitch.

[squisher]

Just cause Burnham's not here I'll say it. WEDGES!

[Frans]

When I posted, I did not see the posts about reducing friction. Biners are a quick way to do that.
That DMM biner I bet is not too strong. At least for rigging

[Will]

Cant beat a compounded reduction for bigger logs.

[Al Smith]

Hmm not being a real climber I don't have real climbers stuff . Being a rigger though I have a bunch of big snatch blocks .They won't break .;)

[Bodean]

We use a John deere 644 loader,
or a cat bobcat, or a 5:1 pulley gizmo if we're in the cuts.

[Bounce]

For the midline knot where one of my biners goes on, I use an alpine butterfly. I switched to that after I had to cut a trucker's knot out of the line because it was loaded to heavily.

Wedges are great unless you've got a lot of lean. Even then I still usually use them though just in case the line breaks so the cut doesn't close and pinch my bar in the kerf.

[Burnham]

Just cause Burnham's not here I'll say it. WEDGES!

Thanks, Squish :). I really don't think many of y'all truly appreciate the power available from properly applied wedging.

If I need real pulling power though, I use the truck mounted Warn 12,000 winch. I have reeved rope all around and about obstacles with blocks to redirect the direction of pull, allowing for it's use even when the access for the truck was poor. I never pull with the truck...keep it parked and even anchored down if need be.


Wedges are great unless you've got a lot of lean. Even then I still usually use them though just in case the line breaks so the cut doesn't close and pinch my bar in the kerf.

Absolutely. Or even worse things can happen, like the tree going over backwards or sideways if the hinge isn't up to holding together under that kind of stress...keep the wedges snug all through the pull.

[pantheraba]

Midline knot for me is always a single or double butterfly...and I use a pulley if I really want an efficient (stronger) pull. I usually use a z-rig system. If I need more, my next option is a rope hoist that gives me 4:1.

I have started using wedges more and more...I am becoming a believer in the power of the wedge.

[pantheraba]

The butterfly is designed for 3 directional stress...I was taught the knot in 1969 at a Ranger mountaineering training course...it was a midline knot for moving groups of people across a rock face with all being linked to the same rope...you tied it around your waist.

I have never had a butterfly get jammed...I have had to use a rope wrench (aka knife) with a slip knot used midline.

[TC3]

I stopped using my truck after I watched it get dragged across somebody's lawn by a tree that weighed a good deal more than the truck. That was a bad day.
Sorry, but that is a funny visual !!! "I said put it in the kitchen... IN THE KITCHEN !"
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/feA-WTBAkYo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/feA-WTBAkYo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Was the look on the driver's face priceless ?!?
I've had a few hairy experiences (early on in the game) bringing a stick over center. After a while, all the extra time it takes to set up & put away the 2:1 is sooo worth it !

[Drella]

On our crew, it was always two guys on a rope and wedges,, 100% success rate.

[Blinky]

Wedges, 5:1 fiddle block...
if there's a loader on site, the loader.

[Bounce]

Was the look on the driver's face priceless ?!?

Now that its been a few years since it happened, it's good for a laugh every time I think about it. At the time though, it sure did suck.


On our crew, it was always two guys on a rope and wedges,, 100% success rate.

That works great if you aren't pulling against much lean. 2 guys might be able to generate 500 lbs pulling power, which is completely inadequate when pulling over a 130 ft fir tree from a 60 degree angle. As far as wedges go, I just can't figure out how to stack 5 or 6 wedges on top of each other. When the back cut has to open 6-8" before the tree falls, wedges are less useful. On the job in question I actually had to shave thick wedges off the face cut so I could stack those in the back cut, allowing my plastic wedges to keep working.

[lumberjack]

I'd like to point out that the first picture is a 3:1, not a 2:1.

I use a 3:1 with biners or sometimes just rope. Normally though it's the mini that does the pulling. If it's more than the mini wants I'll use the GRCS.

If wedges can handle it and they're easier, they get the nod.

[RIVERRAT]

I always use wedges pulling against a lean.
If the tree or snag has a significant bend to it up high that favors the lean.
I will use an open face notch to keep the hinge intact as long as possible.

Depending on the type of tree I will leave a thicker than normal hinge in this situation.

I would like to add that Wiley P's thoughts on using a porty when pulling with a truck carries a great deal of merit. I use this a lot. I have seen lines slip off a hitch or get cut from setting in a bad spot on the truck.

Most here should know this. But make damn sure your pull line is centered with your face cut.

[Bounce]

I second the motion to use a port-a-wrap when pulling with the truck. That sure would have saved me before.


But make damn sure your pull line is centered with your pull line.

:? Do you mean to make sure the line you are pulling with is centered on your line of pull?

[RIVERRAT]

I second the motion to use a port-a-wrap when pulling with the truck. That sure would have saved me before.



:? Do you mean to make sure the line you are pulling with is centered on your line of pull?

Brain Fart, I fixed it.

[lumberjack]

I have a shackle mount that slides into the reciever that I've used a few times for pulling trees.

[RIVERRAT]

I have a shackle mount that slides into the reciever that I've used a few times for pulling trees.
Yup those are great.

[top hopper]

The revolver biners are available in a double auto lock.

http://akamai.backcountrystore.com.edgesuite.net/images/items/large/DMM/DMM0021/LO.jpg


I have 2 of them. They are great.

[inztrees]

I like the chipper winch if I can

[fallguy]

Are there any diagrams out there for the proper way to use multiple wedges to get enough lift to tip a leaning tree? I have had a number of different suggestions but they are all different. You what they say about free advise. Its worth what you paid for it.

[Blinky]

Just a quick story about a friend had to have some facial reconstruction...

He stacked a couple of the little orange Stihl wedges and was banging them in with an axe head. He hit one and the other shot out and hit him on the cheek and bridge of his nose... really really hard.

Worth mentioning.

In general I don't work against a lean with wedges, just use'em to keep the cut from binding the saw.

[Bodean]

On stacking wedges, a little trick I learned was to, I mean it's not a cure all
but worth a try if you get there in your frustatrraaroioanns.

Boring like 3" down from your originally set/sunk wedge.
When You hit the second wedge, it usually breaks the wood between the wedges and gives you even more lift.
You want the wood in between to break. If you go too low it's hard to break that wood.

I've stacked up to 4 or 5 hammerhead wedges and gotten plenty of lift.
Those rifled stackable wedges kinda suck I think In my little opinion.
I like the hammerhead metal topped ones.

er something.

[vl2007]

I've used the same trick.

[lumberjack]

I don't bore so much as I do something along the them of Ekkka's quarter cut technique.

Same theory though, 2 wedges (or more) with wood in between.

[Skwerl]

Cool method, Deva. I've never heard of it before but it sounds impressive. I can't wait to try it out sometime just to see it work (and gain the admiration of my coworkers).
8)

[sotc]

i like that trick to, thanks deva! some times ill trim the pie cut and put it in with a wedge. sometimes a little sawdust between wedges will help. get very many stacked and its an iffy situation.

[boboak]

i like that trick to, thanks deva! some times ill trim the pie cut and put it in with a wedge. sometimes a little sawdust between wedges will help. get very many stacked and its an iffy situation.

Well said. A little dirt works, too. Sawdust, depending on the type of wood, can act as a lubricant and the wedges will start to fan out. LOL...this only happens when you don't want it to.

I've stacked three wedges a couple of times but it was dicey and I was already in trouble anyway. Any more than three...it's time for a jack or a pull rope or a Cat.

[Altissimus]

I use heavy equipment as little as possible,occasionaly hire skidder/log truck...easy to do in the Greens. With no crane or bucket I carved out the hard to access trim/removal niche.I have pulled many,many trees with the Tirfor...Italian made cable grab.STRONG,versatile,portable...Am I alone?

[stig]

.I have pulled many,many trees with the Tirfor...Italian made cable grab.STRONG,versatile,portable...Am I alone?
Nope, I use a tirfor too. 2 of them in fact, a 1 ton and a 3½ton, they are surely the neatest winches ever made. The 3½ tonner has a break factor of 16 ton, so even if you pull hard enough to break the little safetypin, it won't let go of the load.
By the way, Tirfor is from Switzerland, not Italy.

[Altissimus]

Awesome I feel better already...a few memorable times we pulled a 3/4 ton truck full w/hardwood hitched to chipper back onto the road...I think I have the larger model...

[stig]

I'd like to add something to the whole discussion about stacking wedges.

Around here fallers carry a stack of steel plates about the size of a wedge and between a quarter and ½ an inch thick. Once we've pounded the first wedge all the way in, we stick one or two plates into the cut and place the next wedge on top of them, repeating the procedure and building the stack of plates higher until the tree falls. That way you totally eliminate wedge-shootout.
Only drawback is that the plates are kind of heavy, but then 2 wedges and 5 plates will knock most anything over.

[Bounce]

:O Whoa! That is sweet! I'm gonna try that the next chance I get. I've never seen such a large gap in a backcut before with the tree being in motion!

[woodworkingboy]

In Stig's photo, the tree does not appear to have a face cut. Probably just the angle of the photo?

[Altissimus]

In 'Fundamentals" Beranek goes over stacking wedges , and uses of multiple wedges...if you really understand wedge design...single taper , double taper , ect....with a little practice you can stack them... those plates sound interesting Stig!

[stig]

In Stig's photo, the tree does not appear to have a face cut. Probably just the angle of the photo?

There is a face cut, allright!

This elm tree was going to be shipped to Germany for a wood auction, since good elm is getting really scarce around here and therefore really valuable.
So in order to save as much wood as possible, My partner made the smallest possible face cut, he could get away with.

It sold for 5800$, by the way!

[brendonv]

FYI. It looks like the technique Deva is talking about is outlined in this issue of Tree Services, page 33.