splicing tenex and such

[treesandsurf]

I saw some cool foot straps with tenex off of ascenders and wanted to try and make one :|:

I think it was a whoopie type of splice for the foot part; are there instructions on the samsons/yale sites on how to do the whoopie splice? Will a brummel splice work for the tennex?

Thanks for your patience! :thumb:

jp:D

[Will]

Adjustable? that sounds cool, ill try one.

[NickfromWI]

http://yalecordage.com/html/pdf/yale_backsplice.pdf

Just about the easiest splice you could do.

love
nick

[Koa Man]

Can I splice 24 strand using the same method as for 16 strand or is the technique different?

[NickfromWI]

Very, very different. I think you might find the 24 strand (aka Double Braid) splice to be a tiny bit confusing at first, but once you do a couple, it comes together VERY nice and you'll find it a lot less fussy that the 16 strand splice.

Have a look at the double braid splicing directions: http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/DB_C1_EyeSplice_Rev.pdf

love
nick

[treesandsurf]

Nick, can the Samson prussik cord be spliced??

http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?ind=13&app=40&rope=451&inst=1

jp:D

[NickfromWI]

I cannot speak with any authority on that cord. I assume it is a polyester double braid and would be spliced according to the class I double braid eye splice directions, but I've never held the rope, never looked at specs for it, never climbed on it, never talked to anyone about it and sure as heck have never tried splicing it!

Anyone else know for sure?

love
nick

[Koa Man]

I made 2 splices with 24 strand today. First I followed the instructions on the Samson link that Nick posted. What a pain! On my 2nd splice I improvised and made up my own technique. The splice looked and felt better and was a hell of a lot quicker. My method may not be OSHA or ANSI or rope manufacturers approved, but I was not able to pull the eye splice out and I lock stitched it to be sure. I found it was not necessary to pull out the core and then put the core back in. I only pulled out the core to the point where it was going to be cut off, not way back, tuck back into the cover and then cut off a section like the Samson instructions said to do.

[treesandsurf]

I made 2 splices with 24 strand today. First I followed the instructions on the Samson link that Nick posted. What a pain! On my 2nd splice I improvised and made up my own technique. The splice looked and felt better and was a hell of a lot quicker. My method may not be OSHA or ANSI or rope manufacturers approved, but I was not able to pull the eye splice out and I lock stitched it to be sure. I found it was not necessary to pull out the core and then put the core back in. I only pulled out the core to the point where it was going to be cut off, not way back, tuck back into the cover and then cut off a section like the Samson instructions said to do.


:?


jp:D

[Koa Man]

:?


jp:D

Yeah, I was confused as to why Samson's instructions said to pull the core out so much and then tuck it back in. I spliced Fly, made by New England, and the core is 11 separate strands. Samson's instructions are to run the cover inside the core, can't do that with the Fly. I like my method better and I feel it is 100% safe, after all, I am going to hang my life on it without hesitation.

[lumberjack]

Um, Wesely, Fly is a kern mantle rope (NOT a double braid/"24" strand)with it's on very unique and very PITA splice.

[jamie]

I'm assuming its blaze or what not. If its a double braided rope the core and the sheath share the weight.

When the eye is formed you need to have the core running through the sheath on the eye for the eye to retain its full strength.

The core is extracted so much because when you bury the tapered end of the sheath into it the taper elongates as you remove some strands in the tapering process.

The splice is held together by the finger trap action and at the neck of the splice.

For burying the taper, tie a slip knot and attach it to something and massage the rope with your hands with your body weight. bend and massage the throat of the splice to help the bury. then rinse and repeat.

Doing what you have done i'd liken to only doing your wheel nuts on your car up finger tight as it's only you driving it.

I'd say don't use it, do it properly or not at all.

Jamie

[NickfromWI]

I'm calling shenanigans on Koa!!!

[Koa Man]

Um, Wesely, Fly is a kern mantle rope (NOT a double braid/"24" strand)with it's on very unique and very PITA splice.

No wonder the instructions did not make sense.:lol: Anyway, I figured out a good way to make a spliced eye [on Fly] that I feel is plenty strong. I got it buried at least 12 inches and even without the lock stitching, I could not pull it out. I tied off the eye splice to my truck hitch as an anchor point and jerked it, pulled it fast and hard, slow and hard and every way I could think of [by hand, not with the truck] and the splice did not move. I lock stitched it afterwards. Like I said, that is for my own lines. I would not splice an eye for someone else because I don't want the responsibility if something should happen. Even though it may not have been done according to manufacturer's directions, I have every confidence it will not let go and will be using it tomorrow. If I'm not on the forum tomorrow night, you'll know why. :lol:

[NickfromWI]

Wes, get a pic up for us!!!

[Koa Man]

I'll take a picture tomorrow.

[Koa Man]

Here are pictures of the splices I made up because I tried to follow the wrong instructions. The one on the spool was new rope. The other one I made on my 6 month old climbing line. I used it yesterday and had no problems. The splice did not move and obviously, I trust my life on it. I cut off the whipping for the pictures.

The black mark in the picture with the tape measure is how deep the cover with 5 of the 11 strands making up the core is buried. The other 6 were cut off at the point where the eye goes back into the cover. It may not be manufacturer's spec, but it is easy to do and like I said, I trust my life on it. I just won't make splices for anyone else.

[treesandsurf]

It'd be cool to send it off to be broke on a machine.

jp:D

[NickfromWI]

Sorry, I posted a response earlier today, but the house wasn't working from work for some reason. My post went something like...

BEST LOOKING FLY SPLICE EVER!!! I could never "condone" this splice because it is done NOT in accordance with the manufacturers directions. But the factory splice for this just looks UGLY. Your splice, on the other hand, looks quite elegant! No big clumpy bump sticking out, no need for shrink wrap, and smooth overall transition from splice to rope.

I once did a splice in a 10.5mm Mammut kernmantle, dynamic rock climbing rope using directions from a double braid splice. When it came time to burying the cover INTO the core, I just laid the two next to eachother and stitched them together. I cut it off and still have it. I would climb on it in a heartbeat after knowing what I had to go through to put it together. There is no way that things is coming apart. But I didn't want my friends climbing on things that weren't accepted, so I cut it off. I still have it.

It might be worth making a properly sized eye-eye sling and breaking it to see what happens. I think we might be pleasantly surprised! I'm sure Ne_Tree would be glad to bust it for us, right?

Anyone have some newish Fly they can send me? I don't think I have any left now that tachyon is available.

love
nick

[Koa Man]

Thanks for the kind words Nick. I was thinking I might make up another one big enough to go over my 2 5/16 inch ball hitch and tie the other end to our other truck's ball using a bowline. I'll then start pulling it until it breaks. It would be interesting to see which one of the 3 parts breaks, my splice, the bowline or the straight rope itself. Do you think that would prove anything?

[lumberjack]

I would go for a more efficent knot, such as a figure 8 (80% strength). My first double braid splice broke at the 8.


I'd surmise that I haven't a clue, but I'd bank it wouldn't be the straight rope.

[Koa Man]

Carl,
The reason I would use a bowline on one end is because that is what I use to tie a carabiner if the rope I am using doesn't have an eye. I will probably sacrifice about 15 ft. of rope for this experiment some time in the next couple of weeks. I need to get or make up a loop for my Toss wand. I broke it on the last splice I made.

[jamie]

Speaking to peopel who splice for NATO and who get splices tested all the time, apparently they always break on the moving end of the rig (provided both ends are spliced the same). not that that has anything to do with this thread but an interesting point.

Jamie

[treesandsurf]

Carl,
The reason I would use a bowline on one end is because that is what I use to tie a carabiner if the rope I am using doesn't have an eye. I will probably sacrifice about 15 ft. of rope for this experiment some time in the next couple of weeks. I need to get or make up a loop for my Toss wand. I broke it on the last splice I made.

I pulled a few strands of the core of the beeline (technora?) and used that for the loop. Works great!

jp:D

[NickfromWI]

Beeline core = Vectran

I take some vectran or technora scraps, 3 pieces less than a foot long each each about half or third the thickness of dental floss, then braid them together as tight as I can. Get it the right length, tie an overhand in the end to form the loop, and there you go.

love
nick

[Koa Man]

Thanks, I'll try that. I was looking around for a spool of Spider Wire (fishing line, super strong) that I had and saw just a month ago. Now I can't remember where I saw it.

Brion Toss' website shows a pack of 5 for $10. The kicker is they only ship UPS and it shows UPS ground to Hawaii is over $22. That pack must weigh less than 4 ounces.

[NickfromWI]

I would just spend a little time to make your own.

You might wanna call toss ask. I know they used to send them via 1st class mail...maybe for free.

Waitaminute!!! PM me your address. Snare will be on it's way!

love
nick

[Koa Man]

Thanks for the offer Nick, but the loops are easy enough for me to make, on the other hand, if you want to make me a whoopie sling and send it over.......:D

Just kidding. I appreciate your advice and won't hesitate to pick your brain when I need more help.

[Will]

Hi Koa man, This is a photo of a 16 strand splice i tested against a bowline. I tied the bowline to a powerpole and shackled the splice to the truck then drove off slowly. the rope broke in the bowline and the splice didnt move a bit(i marked it). the splice wasnt lock stitched.:)

[Koa Man]

I figure the same thing would happen if I put my non factory spec'd splice up against a bowline. I would think the bowline would break first, the splice 2nd, and the straight rope would be the last to give. On the other hand, if my splice gave before the bowline, I would have to rethink my method of doing it because then I wouldn't have any idea of how strong it really is unless I put it on a machine that could measure the force. If it is stronger than the bowline, then I would have 100% confidence in it, enough to make it for other people.

[NickfromWI]

Thanks, I'll try that. I was looking around for a spool of Spider Wire (fishing line, super strong) that I had and saw just a month ago. Now I can't remember where I saw it.

Brion Toss' website shows a pack of 5 for $10. The kicker is they only ship UPS and it shows UPS ground to Hawaii is over $22. That pack must weigh less than 4 ounces.

http://www.gypoclimber.com/showthread.php?t=10549

love
nick

[Koa Man]

Thanks for posting the video Nick. I already made a snare from the Beeline core the day after I read about it. I'll sure it will work great.