High Lines

[TreeRhino]

I think I'll need to set up a high line this week to take down a seriously decayed Chestnut oak spar.

I've done it once before, with mixed results, and was wondering if anyone had done this before and if they had any tips.

Thanks Guys

[MasterBlaster]

Do you have plenty of spar trees? How long will it need to be?

[NickfromWI]

I hang a prusik off the highline, that way I can adjust it as needed.

love
nick

[Blinky]

I've done a highline on a deaddead chestnut oak. Tighten the highline with a 5:1. I used a locking biner for the floating TIP, it never moved while my weight was on it. Make sure your lanyard can be released or cut out under load.

...and remember, it's a chestnut oak. If it's typical brown rot the spar will be very strong.

[No_Bivy]

lanyard with no stopper knot for sure. I use HTP, have not had to crank it really tight. I use a petzl double pulley for a little more movement up top...Usually epic to set up but very effective.

[MasterBlaster]

Make sure your lanyard can be released or cut out under load.


That's the tricky part.

[wiley_p]

Remember you want to be a little conservative. Maintain 10% sag in the unloaded highline. the 10% is based on 200# of weight and every 100 feet of rope in the span. This also include distance of rope t your anchors, not just the gap being bridged. A highline is a horrible setup based on line angles. Thats why this basic rule is used by most folks with safety in mind.:evil:

[TreeRhino]

Remember you want to be a little conservative. Maintain 10% sag in the unloaded highline. the 10% is based on 200# of weight and every 100 feet of rope in the span. This also include distance of rope t your anchors, not just the gap being bridged. A highline is a horrible setup based on line angles. Thats why this basic rule is used by most folks with safety in mind.:evil:

couldyou explain that a bit more. From my understanding, if i had eighty feet of line in the system, I'd want eight feet of sag? Why?

[TreeRhino]

lanyard with no stopper knot for sure. I use HTP, have not had to crank it really tight. I use a petzl double pulley for a little more movement up top...Usually epic to set up but very effective.

spar is huge (in diameter) probably 55-60 inches. I was thinking about having two TIPS on the line so i didn't have to use a lanyard at all. Is that crazy?

[No_Bivy]

because the load in the middle will be multilpied on the ends of the span. If you crank it tight, you could blow out something on the ends....especially if you fell onto it.

[No_Bivy]

spar is huge (in diameter) probably 55-60 inches. I was thinking about having two TIPS on the line so i didn't have to use a lanyard at all. Is that crazy?

no...but it may be hard to weild a big saw hanging like that...flexy ya know. How prone is this thing to falling over, did you pull test it? Dark had a idea of driving a 20 penny nail in and position off of it(not your life support) just so you could lever off of the trunk to work. Tree fails...nail pops...you get to live....we hope.

[TreeRhino]

I had a rotten old spar fail on me last year. I was tied in to another tree but my lanyard got hung up on the spar. I took quite a spill (my VT melted and burned through) so i'm a bit paranoid about being attached to the thing. I cant pull test it b/c its over a fence and if it fails, well, you get the picture.

My thought is to get up there and widdle away at it. It's hollow so i'm thinking a 361 and cutting it into little chunks, both vertically and horizontally. at the base there is about six inches of rotten, punky wood then hollow. No solid wood anywhere. This things probably been there for twenty years.

[No_Bivy]

Ive always wanted to try this...tap this in just enough to hold body weight. Tree fails....hook pops.....you get to live hopefully. No crane access?

[MasterBlaster]

HuH? :?

[No_Bivy]

you hang from the high line, use the hook to hold you close to the spar while cutting, pops if tree fails...........I know, it's a whacked idea, but it could work.:|:

[MasterBlaster]

I've always considered using a couple of heavy duty cable ties between my dee and my snap. Or a shoestring...

[No_Bivy]

Pete Mctree had a zip tied laynard I think.....it is treading on thin ice hopeing some breaks like you expect too.

[MasterBlaster]

Oh, they'll break before I do! ;)

[No_Bivy]

But I mean, if they don't blow, it would cause your hitch to slide......then your done for.

[wiley_p]

couldyou explain that a bit more. From my understanding, if i had eighty feet of line in the system, I'd want eight feet of sag? Why?

look at the line angle being created. Over 2000# of force is generated on a line that is set tight. Add in the sag and your forces drop quite significantly. 10' of sag on a 100' span will give you a defelection in the neighborhood of 160 degrees. much better than than the former.

Also Nobivy, i used to use a Spectre in treework all the time a great tool for the bag of odd tricks. I have not been able to find mine for some time.:?

[Bodean]

The whole flipline thing,
I like the idea of a vt on your side D without a stopper knot.

[No_Bivy]

Also Nobivy, i used to use a Spectre in treework all the time a great tool for the bag of odd tricks. I have not been able to find mine for some time.:?

how where you using it?

[OTGBOSTON]

The whole flipline thing,
I like the idea of a vt on your side D without a stopper knot.


X2 -beats trying to cut a part of the lanyard.

[Blinky]

X3 on the VT, that's what I use.

Have you ever tried to release one when it's heavily loaded though, likesay 700# or 800#? Nice thing is, when it's THAT loaded you can cut it with a handsaw no problem.

[wiley_p]

how where you using it?

Stuck in a crack, hooked over a limb. usually on a spectra daisy. went to a ropeman on a piece of 7mm cord after a while. Never did put a screamer on it though. I want to find that thing, hope its not one more peice of gear that has "migrated" with a worker.

[No_Bivy]

a cam hook might work in a crack or chainsaw cut too.......time for some r&d

[NickfromWI]

a cam hook might work in a crack or chainsaw cut too.......time for some r&d

You might be on to something here. Bring a couple of kerf-sized rock climbing cams and you might be set!

-1 for the no slip knot. I've tried to lower two people on my friction hitch before and I couldn't get it to budge. There's no way to know that your friction hitch will release with the weight of a log hanging on it.

Find something else, I say.

love
nick

[No_Bivy]

nick, this a cam hook

[TreeRhino]

Started the job today. Will try to post pics later. Highline worked out pretty well. As for a lanyard, I used a twent five foot piece of Fly through an ART positioner. I had the same concerns about enen a VT jamming up. So far so good. Thanks for all the advice guys.

[gf beranek]

Once made a Hail Mary cut in a heavy Euc top. I had a good tie-in point in a neighbor tree. If something bad happen I could just float away, not slam. I was confident with that, but afraid my safety would pull me tight to the trunk if it split out. So before putting in the back cut I transfered the safety snap to my Levi 501 double tack stitched belt loop. Then revved my ol' Mac SP 81 to the top end and smacked it in the back of that top and powered in without any hesitation. Man, what a ride when that top let go. Shook me like a rig doll and I tossed the saw. Which was tethered to the trunk. The tension in the top broke over a foot of hingewood across the stem, splintered like a broken broom handle, but the amazing part is the belt loop held through it all.

Before I did anything else I looked down to check for stitch pulling on the loop, the material in the waist band was pulled enough to show thread separation, it was going to give first. And that got me to thinking about break-away loops for just those special occasions. Girth hitched to the Dee and snap into it. Engineered to break at a certain load. Less than the breaking point of your back. For expert use and those special moments only, of course.

All fine for hazardous situations, but the whole thing with that Euc top only confirmed to me that the next time I'll go a little higher and take it out in smaller pieces. That's the wiser thing to do. Avoid having to make Hail Mary cuts!

[Old Monkey]

I have thought about using a key ring or a nylon/rubber ring as a break away. Fortunately since I moved to boise I have not needed a breakaway lanyard.

[pantheraba]

Once made a Hail Mary cut in a heavy Euc top. I had a good tie-in point in a neighbor tree. If something bad happen I could just float away, not slam. .......

All fine for hazardous situations, but the whole thing with that Euc top only confirmed to me that the next time I'll go a little higher and take it out in smaller pieces. That's the wiser thing to do. Avoid having to make Hail Mary cuts!

Interesting idea, for sure...thanks for the sage advice on smaller pieces. I always appreciate your experienced input.

[Bounce]

A break away flipline for working in dead trees has been something missing from the tree service industry for way too long. I've heard of a half dozen ways to improvise something in case the tree breaks, but there isn't anything in production for this purpose. If anybody was feeling inventive, I know there's a demand for a product like this and probably some money to be made if you owned the patent. It wouldn't be a huge seller because it's a fairly specialized situation, but I've had several people call me asking for something like this.

[rumination]

I still like the idea of using load rated zip ties that Butch mentioned. I've never had to try it myself, though. Or rather, I should say that in the few situations were it might have come in handy I wasn't smart enough to try it.:|:

[Skwerl]

Sean, I think the liability issues involved in trying to explain and justify this item to some insurance man sitting behind a desk will pretty much remove any chance of it being marketed. Desk people just don't understand our job nor the mindset required to be successful at it. The idea of something designed to fail just won't register.
:(

[pete mctree]

A karitool (sp?) might be an ideal item for such a situation. There has been a couple of cases where friends have clipped into them and the gate has failed.

[TreeRhino]

Ok some pics. This has been really slow going but made many times easier through the use of the highline. Will definately be keeping this in my bag of tricks. The guy on the stem is one of my climbers. I did a fair ammount of it but I'm superstitous about having my picture taken in iffy situations.

56" Chestnut Oak. Dead, rotten and hollow at ground level but solid as a rock up top. We're down to about 12 feet and still solid.

[MasterBlaster]

It looks like you've sussed it out quite well! :thumbup:

[OTGBOSTON]

It looks like you've sussed it out quite well! :thumbup:


I don't know what 'sussed' means, but it looks like an excellent set up to me........

[MasterBlaster]

That's my brit accent coming through. It means "figure it out," orrrr something like that.

[rbtree]

Nice work, rhino!

Dicey tree, eh? Solid up top means a lot of weight being held by that rotten shell.

were you able to bomb out sections to avoid shock loading on the stem? Excuse me as i haven't read the whole thread.

Some pics of the two healthy but technically challenging black cottonwood removals from the last 3 days here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbtree/sets/72157604945699349/

video to follow.

[gf beranek]

Load rated zip-ties?

[MasterBlaster]

The ones I use are heavy duty 120 lbs cable ties. If I used the regular ones I would probably use 3 or 4.

[sotc]

looks like a money maker!

[rumination]

Load rated zip-ties?


Take a look at this Jerry. Probably similar, or the same as what Butch is using. Minimum closed loop tensile strength of 120 lbs.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1A372

That was just the first hit on Google. I'm sure there's lots of variety out there.

[No_Bivy]

cam hook....no one grasps that do they?...............:/:

[MasterBlaster]

I've never grabbed one. :drink:

[No_Bivy]

it really could work........I'm gonna dig mine out.:D

[TreeRhino]

Finally finished that beast. We bombed everything out. Made walls of tires and plywood to contain it since it was on a hill. High line worked pretty well. Definately need a static line though. Really mushy but kind of fun when you gaffed out. Like a bungee cord; nice soft stop at the end.

The base was totally hollow and like paper machee. I have no idea what was holding it up. At about six feet off the ground i was able to just rip it apart with my hands. No chainsaw needed. Crazy stuff, but we came, we, saw, we rigged and we conquered!

[Skwerl]

Glad to hear it went well. I always enjoy trying out new techniques and having them work flawlessly in a new, challenging situation.
:)

[MasterBlaster]

:rockon:

[squisher]

Ya congrats on a job well done. That's some skills for sure.8)